Bird's meat vs. Pig's meat
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Salaam Zlatan,
Taj, marie, anyone knowlegeable in arabic...what is significance/ meaning of the words/expresion "bihi" in "ma uhilla li gayrillahi bihi" and "ma uhilla bihi li gayrillah"- in the verses on food prohibition ?
It seems to me nobody is translating these words in the verses in question though they might change the meaning of the verse
best wishes, Zlatan
I am surprised that it is not translated!
But could you be wondering about the order in the combined word "Bihi" in both Ayat that it could possibly be signifying a difference, since they look exactly the same?
I will provide the meaning and the reason why the order is different as soon as I get further explanation from my Arabic professor, In Shaaa Allah.Taj
I am not wondering about the order, though its also interesting, but mainly about the missing words e.i. "bihi" .... and i am having great difficulties locating the object which pronoun "hi" is reffering to, as well as, deciphering the meaning of "bi" here(for those who do not know "bi" has more possible meanings)...would it be "with" or its maybe "for" or its some other meaning ?
best wishes, Zlatan
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Salaam Zlatan,
Salaam Zlatan,
Taj, marie, anyone knowlegeable in arabic...what is significance/ meaning of the words/expresion "bihi" in "ma uhilla li gayrillahi bihi" and "ma uhilla bihi li gayrillah"- in the verses on food prohibition ?
It seems to me nobody is translating these words in the verses in question though they might change the meaning of the verse
best wishes, Zlatan
I am surprised that it is not translated!
But could you be wondering about the order in the combined word "Bihi" in both Ayat that it could possibly be signifying a difference, since they look exactly the same?
I will provide the meaning and the reason why the order is different as soon as I get further explanation from my Arabic professor, In Shaaa Allah.Taj
I am not wondering about the order, though its also interesting, but mainly about the missing words e.i. "bihi" .... and i am having great difficulties locating the object which pronoun "hi" is reffering to, as well as, deciphering the meaning of "bi" here(for those who do not know "bi" has more possible meanings)...would it be "with" or its maybe "for" or its some other meaning ?
best wishes, Zlatan
I have just spoken to my Arabic professor and he promised to give me a detailed answer (many pages I?m afraid) on next Thursday but I tried to get quickly one bit though.
The "he" or "hi" as the way you wrote it, is the pronoun for "Ma"( Ma Ohilla) a relative pronoun meaning which, referring to the animal that has been slaughtered or will be slaughtered (sacrificed) usually from the cattle, as the custom goes, in order to initiate or celebrate the beginning of something that is highly looked upon or worshipped i.e. an idol. A ceremony that is similar to the toast that Christians usually do when celebrating the grand opening of a luxurious yacht or a Liner, when they break a new bottle of Champaign on it. Well, I've only seen that on TV but I hope you get my point. Another example that I've just thought of is the birthday cake, well far from the cattle also but I mean the ceremony itself where something new and delicious (a cake) has to be cut for the first time and spread for everybody to eat and enjoy so that to start the new year with everybody?s blessings!Taj
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Peace Zlatan, all
The object for "hi" is the "ma" in the begining.
"ma uhilla li gayrillahi bihi"
It could translate as
That which has been attributed to other than the god.
But as you said, I wonder why is there a repetition of the object. It could be a way to insiste on the command.
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Peace Zlatan,
I think "wamaohilla bihi lighayri Allahi (2 173)" "and "wama ohilla lighayri Allahi bihi (53)" are similar but let us await Taj's response.
I translate them as
wama uhilla bihi li gayrillahi
and anything (not just animals) that has been dedicated with it to other than the god.
wama uhilla li gayrillahi bihi
and anything (not just animals) that has been dedicated to other than the god with it
The god knows best
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yes, maybe its a kind of repetion particular to arabic, however, bihi might be reffering to lahmal khinziri and/or to all of three prohibitions stated previously in the verse...thought it maybe dont make sense to us now because of our potential/possible ignorance of the real meanings of these words/terms...
best wishes, Zlatan
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There is a verse in which there is maybe a similar repetition, i just can
t recall where it is...it talks about The Gods sending down the water from the sky and peoples` rejoicing in it even though a few moments ago they were in desperation; it goes like"wa in kanu min qablu/i an yunazzila `alayhim min qablihi la mublisoon"
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Peace all
I have analised it more carefully and there`s no way that "hi" is reffering to "ma"...
Though its less visible in "ma uhilla li gayrillahi bihi" its obvious from "ma uhilla bihi li gayrillah"-
"...what is dedicated with it to other than The God...."with it is clearly reffering to something before what/ma
Or "hi" is maybe reffering to The God ..."what is dedicated with Him to other than The God(meaning- what is dedicated to both, the god plus the partner)"....but the first version "ma uhilla li gayrillahi bihi" make this very hard to accept...
Except if this is some extremely unusual usage or figure of speech....
best wishes, Zlatan
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Salaams,
JUST FOR INFORMATION;NOT A DEBATE! THANK YOU.
Uhilla=people e.t.c
i beleive this word is used at 100's of locations throughout the quran as people,
even the quranic dictionary gives that meaning too page 36.
but at 4 locations the word is translated as conseqrated, and at one place it is even translated as the new moons.
i think it has just one meaning people or somehting to this extent.
To me the translation was something like this
2173
Verily he has forbidden on you the dead (flesh) and blood and flesh that you see/smell/sense is bad and that people according to any other then Allah but whoso (is) forced by necessity without willfull disobedience nor transgressing the limits then(there is)no sin on him indeed Allah (is) Oft-forgiving Most Merciful.And Nabi said how right.
I agree with Kyle. Remember bani israel who were instructed to eat what is best , though allowed to eat even those things that were not best . See like them, I'd love and rather eat what is not best even though it is not forbidden, but this still can't change that the better is the better and is better than the worst of it.But it doesn't make an ay'ota of a difference if we were to follow the current islamic sytem-AFTER ALL ITS NOT Affecting ANYBODY!IS IT?
i don't think.
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Salam all, brother mz357,
I will try to respond according to my understanding. As for the people argument, the root there is A-H-L and it means people. In Uhilla, the root is H-L-L and it means raise the voice in joy (and a sense of Glorification of something or someone). It is very close to the christian that says Halleluyah which comes from the Hebrew and Aramaic languages. When a muslim raises his voice saying La ILAHA ILLA ALLAH, he is doing HALLAL. Basically a loud glorification of GOD or of others.
Now the verb forms
1- Someone HALLAL GOD means Someone Glorified GOD loudly
2- Someone AHALLA GOD means someone made GOD glorified loudly (by asking others to do it and otherwise)
3- Someone UHILLA means some was made glorified.Now for MA UHILLA BIHI LIGHAYR ALLAH will be like this
MA What other food (points to some sort of food because it followed other food)
Uhilla was made Glorified loudly/joyfully
BIHI By Him (points to the MA or the food that it implies)
Li GHAYR To other
ALLAH The GODThe bihi had to come, because, otherwise, the thing that was made glorified would be the MA (the food) and that is not the case. The sentence probably comes like this "And What (food) was made glorified loudly by it, to other than the GOD" Which means " And the food by which other than GOD was glorified."
I hope that this makes sense and that the language that I used is helpful.
Salam
Hussein
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Peace all
there`s no way that "hi" is reffering to "ma"...
Actually in my last night reading i have come across a few verses which have convinced me otherwise...an example 432
Wala tatamannaw ma faddalaAllahu bihi baAAdakum
as hlatif has convincingly explained it seems that bihi was necessary in order to avoid misunderstanding that "ma" is what is glorified ....