Calendar Reform
-
Why does the majority blindly follow/adhere to the inconsistent, roman calendar of gregory & caesar, when switching to a 6 days per week ~ 5 weeks/month - 12 months/year ~ yields a consistent, natural calendar where the days are the same every year and the months exactly 30 days each (+5 seasonal holidays) ?!!
-
Peace Hicham and everyone,
According to history, in year 1582, Pope Gregorius (Gregory XIII) ordered the implementation of the Gregorian calendar. A lot of people think that the Gregorian Calendar is unnatural, hard to follow and out of sync with the universe. The Egyptians, Druids, Incas, Polynesians, Essene and the Mayans, used the 13 moons (months) Calendar aka Lunar Calendar. Many indigenous tribes (including the Native Americans) used the 13 moon (months) Calendar. Also, the ancient major holidays that were celebrated by muslims, jews and many Asian people, were based on the Lunar Calendar. Luna means moon. And 1 moon = 1 month. The 13 moons (months) calendar has been for thousands of years around the world. And there are some cultures that still use this calendar today.
Unlike the Gregorian Calendar, the Lunar calendar is harmonious, rational and easy to follow. In the Lunar calendar, the 1st day of every month will always be Monday. And the 7th day of every month will always be a Sunday. In the Lunar Calendar, a week has 7 days and a moon (month) has 4 weeks. Thus, each moon (month) has 28 days. On the other hand, in the Gregorian Calendar, we have months with 29, 30 and 31 days. Also, once every 4 years, February has 28 days. Therefore a lot of people think that the Gregorian Calendar is chaotic/arbitrary and not in alignment/harmony with the time principles of the universe.
By the way, I recommend this article
http//www.free-minds.org/calendars-and-time
-
Thank you for the relevant input @Taro-san.
Personally, I don't see the Qurn edifying a lunar calendar of 13 months a year, but a luni-solar calendar (1712) of 12 months (936). I believe Layth concludes the same in the FM article you linked.
As you know, there are some big issues/problems with the currently pervasive, Pagan solar calendar! To break free from it, and correct our perception of time, as to align/be in tune/harmony with the natural order (cycles of both luminaries and turning points of solstices & equinoxes), i suggest switching to a six-day week structure, instead of the usual 7 Of course, "Jan.1st" ain't the first day of the year, but the day after winter solstice is; this"Tiw's Day."
Withal, wouldn't a week of six days symbolize the six days/millennia of creation ?
What does the current 7th day stand for, if not G-D's so-called "resting" day according to the counterfeit of genesis 22-3 (the Qurn discredits in 503 ?! /
Salute
-
Thank you for the relevant input @Taro-san.
The pleasure is mine Mr. Hicham. I am the one who should be thanking you. Because your posts in this thread has made me reflect/think/ponder on this subject/topic and has inspired me to research this subject/topic more.
Personally, I don't see the Qurn edifying a lunar calendar of 13 months a year, but a luni-solar calendar (1712) of 12 months (936). I believe Layth concludes the same in the FM article you linked.
I'm not sure if the Quran supports a luni-solar calendar. In verse 105, the Quran suggests that there is a lunar calendar. Because the Quran suggests that the creator has made the moon a light, and measured its phases so that we would know the number of the years and the calculation. If the Quran supported the notion a luni-solar calendar, then verse 105 would suggest that the creator is the one who has made the sun an illuminator, and the moon a light, and measured their phases so that we would know the number of the years and the calculation. But verse 105 only refers to the moon regarding the number of the years and the calculation. Verse 105 doesn't refer to both the sun and the moon regarding the number of the years and the calculation. Therefore, it seems that the Quran supports a Lunar calendar, not a luni-solar calendar.
Quran 105 He is the One who made the sun an illuminator, and the moon a light, and He measured its phases so that you would know the number of the years and the calculation. God has not created this except for truth. He details the signs for a people who know.
As you know, there are some big issues/problems with the currently pervasive, Pagan solar calendar! To break free from it, and correct our perception of time, as to align/be in tune/harmony with the natural order (cycles of both luminaries and turning points of solstices & equinoxes), i suggest switching to a six-day week structure, instead of the usual 7 Of course, "Jan.1st" ain't the first day of the year, but the day after winter equinox is; this"Tiw's Day."
Good point. I need to study this more before I take a stance.
Withal, wouldn't a week of six days symbolize the six days/millennia of creation ?
Interesting observation.
What does the current 7th day stand for, if not G-D's so-called "resting" day according to the counterfeit of genesis 22-3 (the Qurn discredits in 503 ?! /
Good question.
Peace.
-
Why does the majority blindly follow/adhere to the inconsistent, roman calendar of gregory & caesar, when switching to a 6 days per week ~ 5 weeks/month - 12 months/year ~ yields a consistent, natural calendar where the days are the same every year and the months exactly 30 days each (+5 seasonal holidays) ?!!
Out of convenience.
Tough to change the calendar that the world uses, especially in these days of freely flowing information.
I guess it was much easier in the good ol'days, when the rulers could decree almost anything they wished, and people were pretty uninformed as compared to today.These days, there are different calendars in use, but for coordination and interaction, everyone is using the same one Gregorian one, natural or not, inconsistent or not.
I wonder how it would be possible to shift to a new calendar. I really cannot see how. I think the major issue would not be how sensible or natural the new calendar would be, but rather how to have people agree on one particular calendar.
So, the Gregorian one is being used, and will keep on being used, simple because it is in place, up and running. If it is a good one or not, I think is a separate issue. And I don't think people find the flaws of the Gregorian calendar very bothersome in daily life... after all, all we need to do is to look at the printer calendar to see what day and month it is. The calculations are done by other people, so no inconvenience is felt from the calendar we are using. It works for people, so it would be hard to convince people that they need a new and better calendar. Also, a shift would be an enormous project. Besides, people are happy to ignore things like the constant irritation of recalling how many days the different months have, as long as they don't have to change.
Habit and convenience.
That's how I see it.
Cheers -
Salute @Zulf, all
Just because something seems "convenient" to the Maj. doesn't mean it's right by default ! & by -right- i mean in accordance with G-D's Law (as revealed in nature and scripture). Natheless, i don't see the Qurn upholding the incongruous, gregorian calendar! Thus, a reform is a must, at least for those who seek the truth (andor exactness) The churchian and royalist influences need to be removed from the people's almanac, starting with the apocryphal 7days/week structure.
Any learned Astronomer here (on FM) ?
SLM
-
It is not at all relevant what kind of calender a person is using. It is just a measure of time. You can refer to specific time in the past using this calendar and you know what you refer to.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Peace Everyone,
I think both Zulf and Hicham raise some good points in their posts.
It works for people, so it would be hard to convince people that they need a new and better calendar. Also, a shift would be an enormous project.
It seems that you are right/correct.
Besides, people are happy to ignore things like the constant irritation of recalling how many days the different months have, as long as they don't have to change.
It seems that many people don't care whether we use a Gregorian calendar or a Lunar calendar.
Habit and convenience.
Good point.
Just because something seems "convenient" to the Maj. doesn't mean it's right by default ! & by -right- i mean in accordance with G-D's Law (as revealed in nature and scripture).
Good point.
Natheless, i don't see the Qurn upholding the incongruous, gregorian calendar!
I agree. What kind of Calendar do you think the Quran supports? Do you still believe that the Quran supports a Luni-solar calendar? If you have researched this topic/subject more since we last discussed this topic/subject in this thread, and have come across more quranic evidence which supports the notion of a luni-solar calendar, please share your new findings. I am open to the idea of such a calendar, as long as there is irrefutable and undeniable Quranic evidence and/or scientific evidence which supports the notion of luni-solar calendar.
By the way, I no longer believe that the 13 moon (months) calendar is in alignment/harmony with the time principles of the universe. Because there are 2 verses in the Quran which disproves the notion of a 13 moon (months) calendar (see verses 936 and 937). That being said, the Quran might still support the notion of a Lunar calendar. For example, the Quran might support the notion of a 12 months calendar which is based on the phases/cycles of the Moon.
Quran 936 The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's book the day He created the heavens and the earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them. Fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. Know that God is with the righteous.
Quran 937 Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year, and forbidden one year, so as to circumvent the count of what God has made restricted; thus they make lawful what God has made forbidden. Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people.
Thus, a reform is a must, at least for those who seek the truth (andor exactness)
Good point.
The Quran seems to suggest that it is important to use a calendar which is in harmony/alignment with the time principles of the universe (see verses 52 and 937).
-
Hello Taro,
The Quran seems to suggest that it is important to use a calendar which is in harmony/alignment with the time principles of the universe (see verses 52 and 937).
I find that this implies that it ought to be scientifically correct based on its dynamics. The most important thing is that the dates correlate with how the sun and the moon stand each 12 months which comprise a year in this system.
It ought not to matter whether it is the Gregorian calendar or not. The Gregorian calendar is not perfect since you need leap years. It does fill its function though with those leap years.
The most important thing is to make it as accurate as possible and I do not understand how Quran is relevant in this. How the years come and go is quite easy to notice since once each year there is a cold season and a warmer season. To make it more complicated, on the southern hemisphere the summer occurs when there is winter in the northern one. To count a year it is just to mark down the cycle on something. You can measure when the days are starting to be brighter again from having been dark to see when the year is changing. In Sweden this occurs in December, before New Year (which shows the Gregorian calender is not scientifically accurate here). The other turning point is when the sun leads to the longest days in summer. There are thus two cycles each year. The days are easy to count.
Our ways of counting the years is relatively accurate and it works and it is difficult to change it without imposing a massive cost upon our world.
I can agree that we may change the name of the months and days from being named after Pagan gods though. What the heck is moonday (Monday)?
March after Mars. And Christians go to Church on Sun-day.
No one uses the names due to their Pagan belief though but is a tragic remnant of old.
Iranians (Persians) have a nice way of addressing the days
Shanbe, Yek- (1) Shanbe, Do- (2) Shanbe, Tze- (3) Shanbe, Chahar- (4) Shanbe and Panj- (5) Shanbe ... and jumah which is simply borrowed from Islam.
I.e. their days have no real names.
Be safe
Amenuel -
I'm not sure if the Quran supports a luni-solar calendar. In verse 105, the Quran suggests that there is a lunar calendar. Because the Quran suggests that the creator has made the moon a light, and measured its phases so that we would know the number of the years and the calculation. If the Quran supported the notion a luni-solar calendar, then verse 105 would suggest that the creator is the one who has made the sun an illuminator, and the moon a light, and measured their phases so that we would know the number of the years and the calculation. But verse 105 only refers to the moon regarding the number of the years and the calculation. Verse 105 doesn't refer to both the sun and the moon regarding the number of the years and the calculation. Therefore, it seems that the Quran supports a Lunar calendar, not a luni-solar calendar.
I understand from the related ayas that the Quran supports the calendar which is based on the solar year. 1005 you mention is proof enough, which says the phases of the moon help us know the number of years.
Full moon is one of the phases of the moon. If we count the first full moons appearing right after the summer solstice, we get the number of the solar years.
Supposing somethig important happened some years ago in your life, but you don't remember what year it exactly was. However, you have noted the 5 first full moons right after the summer solstice until now. God's order is that the number of the first full moons is the same as the number of the solar years that have passed since the event.
http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=2015&country=74
02 July. 2015
12 July. 2014
23 June 2013
03 July. 2012
15 July. 2011It happened in 2011.
-
The first full moon appearing right after the summer solstice is actually the scorching full moon.
Please note that each year it arrives 11 days earlier than the previous one,
but the chain is broken when an extra full moon appers in the iddat as-shohoor .03 July of 2012 is 11 days earlier than 15 July of 2011,
23 June of 2013................................... 03 July of 2012,
12 July of 2014 is 19 days later than 23 June. of 2013The reason is that there is an extra full moon in the iddat between summer solstices of 2013 and 2014
-------1--------------2--------3---------4--------5--------6---------7-----------8----------9---------10-------11------12-----Extra
23 June 2013-22 July-21 Aug-19Sept-19 Oct-17 Nov-17 Dec-16 Jan 2014-15 Feb-16 March-15 Apr-14 May-13 June
12 July 2014-...This makes the full moons appear in their own times fixed in the solar year. For example the scorching full moon always appears at the start of summer; it never takes place in any other season as it does in the so-called lunar year, whcih proves that the lunar calendar is against God's order. Actually there is no year such as the lunar year; you cannot make any year out of the moons in the sky.
-
I tend to think that whatever calendar we use should be
-
simple and accurate. No need for adjustments every now and then.
-
connected to nature. It should be useful in everyday life when it come to for example agriculture or wildlife. This means the sun needs to be part of the calendar in some way, and that purely lunar calendars are not practically useful for people and societies. The calendar has to be connected to seasons.
Joy to all
-
-
Indeed Zulf, a year has two turning points per year that occur at the same time each one. The lunar calendar does seem to be impractical like you said.
The interesting thing is that the sun's cycle from darkness to full intensity seems similar to the cycle of the moon from barely visible to full moon (full intensity) and then I mean by principle. First building up towards full moon and then going back again. And it is always the same symmetric pattern.
I know I may be weird but this is my observation.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Salute @Taro, all
What kind of Calendar do you think the Quran supports?
Do you still believe that the Quran supports a Luni-solar calendar? If you have researched this topic/subject more since we last discussed this topic/subject in this thread, and have come across more quranic evidence which supports the notion of a luni-solar calendar, please share your new findings. I am open to the idea of such a calendar, as long as there is irrefutable and undeniable Quranic evidence and/or scientific evidence which supports the notion of luni-solar calendar.I still vouch for a lunisolar calendar (1712, 105), my brother.
12 months/year, 6 days/week.By the way, I no longer believe that the 13 moon (months) calendar is in alignment/harmony with the time principles of the universe. Because there are 2 verses in the Quran which disproves the notion of a 13 moon (months) calendar (see verses 936 and 937).
Indeed, the Qurn edifies 12 months.
The Quran seems to suggest that it is important to use a calendar which is in harmony/alignment with the time principles of the universe (see verses 52 and 937).
I concur.
-
I tend to think that whatever calendar we use should be
-
simple and accurate. No need for adjustments every now and then.
-
connected to nature. It should be useful in everyday life when it come to for example agriculture or wildlife. This means the sun needs to be part of the calendar in some way, and that purely lunar calendars are not practically useful for people and societies. The calendar has to be connected to seasons.
Agreed!
The french revolutionary calendar would be an example.
I wonder why did napoleon abolish it, and resurrect the same old, biased calendar again ...
Not. -
-
A 1929 Time magazine article reporting Soviet five-day work weeks, which it called an "Eternal calendar", associated them with the French Republican Calendar, which had months containing three ten-day weeks.
In February 1930 a government commission proposed a "Soviet revolutionary calendar" containing twelve 30-day months plus five national holidays that were not part of any month, but it was rejected because it would differ from the Gregorian calendar used by the rest of Europe. Four Journal of Calendar Reform articles (1938, 1940, 1943, 1954) thought that five-day weeks actually were organized into 30-day months, as do several modern sources.
A 1931 Time magazine article reporting six-day weeks stated that they too were organized into 30-day months, with the five national holidays between those months. Two of the Journal of Calendar Reform articles (1938 and 1943) thought that six-day as well as five-day weeks were organized into 30-day months. A couple of modern sources state that five-day weeks plus the first two years of six-day weeks were organized into 30-day months.
Source
Interesting ...
-
From Winter to Spring (1st Quarter)
Month 01 - 30 days (6 days/week) Tropic of Capricorn
Month 02 - 30 days (6 days/week)
Month 03 - 30 days (6 days/week)- Holiday Spring Equinox (sun crosses celestial equator)
From Spring to Summer (2nd Quarter)
Month 04 - 30 days (6 days/week)
Month 05 - 30 days (6 days/week)
Month 06 - 30 days (6 days/week) Arctic Circle- Holiday Summer Solstice (longest day of the year)
Leap Day (?)
From Summer to Autumn (3rd Quarter)
Month 07 - 30 days (6 days/week) Tropic of Cancer
Month 08 - 30 days (6 days/week)
Month 09 - 30 days (6 days/week)- Holiday Autumnal Equinox (sun crosses celestial equator)
From Autumn to Winter (4th/last Quarter)
Month 10 - 30 days (6 days/week)
Month 11 - 30 days (6 days/week)
Month 12 - 30 days (6 days/week) Antarctic Circle- Holiday Winter Solstice (shortest day of the year)
Happy New Year !
-
Many of the Dead Sea (Qumran) Scrolls have references to a unique calendar, used by the people there, who are often assumed to be Essenes.
The year of this calendar used the ideal Mesopotamian calendar of twelve 30-day months, to which were added 4 days at the equinoxes and solstices (cardinal points), making a total of 364 days.
There was some ambiguity as to whether the cardinal days were at the beginning of the months or at the end, but the clearest calendar attestations give a year of four seasons, each having three months of 30, 30, and 31 days with the cardinal day the extra day at the end, for a total of 91 days, or exactly 13 weeks. Each season started on the 4th day of the week (Wednesday), every year. (Ben-Dov, Head of All Years, pp. 16?17)
With only 364 days, it is clear that the calendar would after a few years be very noticeably different from the actual seasons, but there is nothing to indicate what was done about this problem. Various suggestions have been made by scholars. One is that nothing was done and the calendar was allowed to change with respect to the seasons. Another suggestion is that changes were made irregularly, only when the seasonal anomaly was too great to be ignored any longer. (Ben-Dov, Head of All Years, pp. 19?20)
Source
-
Thank you for the relevant input @Taro-san.
Personally, I don't see the Qurn edifying a lunar calendar of 13 months a year, but a luni-solar calendar (1712) of 12 months (936). I believe Layth concludes the same in the FM article you linked.
I have to disagree. 936 does not mention calendar months but shohoor in the sky.
-