Anger, Wrath, Revenge, and God
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Peace Comrox,
I agree that the above is troubling. Have you ever watched this video? (I'm aware that the disbelievers in question in the video are only one category of disbelievers.)
Thanks for the video. He appears to believe that atheists who rejected out of ignorance but still did good works can graduate to next higher positive dimension, but if someone rejected/covered up the truth after clearly knowing the truth then he/she is kafir and even if he/she did good works will be punished. That doesn't make sense to me. Why would the latter be punished or made to suffer when he/she actually never harmed anyone?
Additionally, according to the quran, even the former category will not avoid punishment, even if they rejected out of ignorance, unless they also repented before death (417-18, 654, 16119), because rejection by itself is a sin (311). This doesn't make any sense also for being made to suffer without actually harming anyone (they did good works).
One question... What is STO and STS? I have no idea what those abbreviations mean.
I elaborated this in great detail in an earlier post on this thread. Perhaps you missed it. Please read the bottom section of my post
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608689.msg391895#msg391895
Someone in the link I posted brought forth the argument that the "gods" they worship are all just many faces of a single whole, but they considered God to be too deceitful in that option.
The One Infinite Creator is never deceitful and does not need any worship, nor asks anyone to worship itself (the infinite Creator is not needy, insecure, or egoistic, also how can infinite Creator deceive its own tiny part?). The temporary illusion of separateness in this 3rd density existence, and allowing existence of many negative entities who walk the STS path by allowing the law of free will, is not a deception but there are valid reasons behind
- To aid in learning lessons and for spiritual progress by allowing a polarity which creates potential for rapid and quick spiritual progress.
- The infinite Creator experiences itself with infinite experience potentials due to the polarity.
All the infinite Creator expects is service not worship, which can be performed by serving others (doing good deeds or STO). Whenever you serve others you are serving a tiny part of the infinite Creator, thereby serving the infinite Creator and indirectly serving yourself also! Whatever higher dimensional entity contacts you through channeling and then expects "worship" is a negative entity trying to channel you a negative message and your alarm bells should go off.
Additionally all those negative entities are not many "faces" (meaning metaphorical face or representation) of the Source but tiny parts or fragments of the Source, allowed to walk the STS path due to the law of free will in the universe that we exist in. There are other universes where there is no law of free will, hence no negative entities and no STS. Everyone is positive and STO. But I am digressing )
Peace
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Peace Comrox,
Going back to the original discussion on anger and God
Following is an excerpt from a later channeling from positive higher density beings on the topic of anger (in 1991)
"You wish to know about the source of anger. The source of anger or any other emotion which the service-to-others seeker may be tempted to judge as negative or unacceptable lies in the misperception of the separateness of entities. For in order to feel the emotion of anger there must needs be an object of the anger and this object is necessarily seen as being separate from the self. Therefore a very simplistic answer would be that if all things were realized in their true unified form there would be no anger for there would be no separate objects."
The complete "anger" channeling is as follows and goes into lot of details
http//www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1991/1991_0712.pdf
More channeling about anger (1996)
http//www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1996/1996_1006.pdf
Peace
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May the love and light of the Infinite Creator be with you
and may the INFINITE, MOST MERCIFUL, WISE, LOVING AND JUST CREATOR guide you towards the truth.Peace
Salaam/Peace TruthSeeker11,
AL-LAH is The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. (=Al-Rahman, Al-Raheem).
Though HE has many other Most Beautiful Names (=for example
The Most Powerful, The Most Wise, The Most Knowledgeable, The Most Trusted, The Most Dignified, .......) (=59/22-24)HE has chosen none of them but always exclusively these two
The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful (=Al-Rahman, Al-Raheem)
both of them comes from the same root with similar meaning (=Ra-Ha-Ma = Infinite Compassion/Mercy)
as the opening Statement of each and every of those specific Chapters of QURAN TESTAMENT,
and also most Wonderfully and perfectly coded them with=19x... =19x...
This is something we should truly reflect on, and deeply appreciate about the True Nature of Our GOD, in the very first place.
But to be The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful (=Al-Rahman, Al-Raheem)
--as it is Absolutely Perfect and Wonderful-- is not Sufficient to be a "GOD" (=i.e. "AUTHORITY"
Who can establish Perfect Justice among HIS Servants by HIS Perfect Judgments here and in the hereafter, forever =28/70).Therefore, I strongly believe that
as "Immense Mercy and Compassion" are Absolutely Most Noble/Perfect Attributes of Our GOD, in the very first place,
but so HIS "Moral Anger and Wrath" --(as dear friend/sister Comrox rightfully referred to and perfectly enlightened us above in this respect)--
are Absolutely Most Noble/Perfect Attributes of Our GOD, too, thereafter,because HE is The One and Only "GOD" (=i.e. "AUTHORITY" Who can truly establish Perfect Justice among HIS Servants
by HIS Perfect Judgments here and in the hereafter, forever =28/70).Otherwise, no one would take HIM seriously, and every person who chooses (based on his/her own free will) to do bad and evil things
(=e.g. those who willfully murder or torture innocent people, those who willfully abduct and rape innocent children,
those who willfully steal the properties and money of innocent people, those who willfully oppress and humiliate the elderly and the needy and the poor, etc.)and thereafter shows no remorse and never wishes to repent and reform himself/herself, forever,
would be able to get away with every bad and evil thing he/she commits, forever!But our GOD by putting such people in "Hell" (=i.e. Heavenly "Giant Rehabilitation Center" and making them taste
nothing else but exclusively and only their own evil therein, (=40/17, 40)
that they may clearly understand what they are doing and how they are hurting others, out of their own ego, selfishness, and greed, despotism,and still leaving the Door always Open for those who will truly repent and reform themselves even therein (=25/69-71 & 11/107)
is Acting in such a Most Gracious & Most Merciful & Most Equitable & Most Benevolent Manner, always and Forever.So I believe, we should immediately repent and return to HIM, and should wholeheartedly love and support HIM,
and should always stand by HIM Alone, always and forever, inshaAL-LAH. (=23/1-11 & 25/69-71)======================
160- Whoever comes with a good deed, he/she will receive (at least) ten times its worth;
and whoever comes with a sin, he/she will only be recompensed its exact similar/same; they are never wronged.6/160
Remain in peace/salaam.
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Peace LastDay3.
Why should we expect any mercy?
We know "humans" are anything but , yet all of us expect GOD to be Merciful!!!!Some may argue "why were they created as "humans"? Did they have the choice? Is it fair?
GOD s message reminds us why! We already had a chance ,yet we rebelled,doubted, arrogantly denied that GOD Alone is the only authority.King,Judge,Creator, Protector,...The Most Gracious, The most Merciful,...
Yet we still deny! We still DISBELIEVE!!... Qoran reminds the "Believers" to repent, be patient and kill that arrogant "ego" i.e Take this chance given by the Most Merciful
"Whoever is spared (the retribution), on that day, has attained His mercy. And this is the greatest triumph."
He is the One who helps you, together with His angels, to lead you out of darkness into the light. He is Most Merciful towards the believers.
Do not corrupt the earth after it has been set straight, and serve/worship Him out of reverence, and out of hope. Surely, God's mercy is attainable by the righteous.
Those who believe in God, and hold fast to Him, He will admit them into mercy from Him, and grace, and will guide them to Him in a straight path.
This too is a blessed scripture that we have revealed; you shall follow it and lead a righteous life, that you may attain mercy.
.... He said, "My retribution befalls whomever I will. But My mercy encompasses all things. However, I will specify it for those who (1) lead a righteous life, (2) give the Zakat, (3) believe in our revelations.
Why should those who disbelieve,doubt...GOD expect anything. Let their pride and arrogance -"ego"- lead them to wherever they want to go. Let their "gods"- Idols"-"egos"- rescue them from their ears and look after them.. Wishful thinking indeed!
I know, some will come back here arguing this further. Sooner -rather than later- the arguments will run out ,they will avail no one nor will the excuses.
Only the Lord /Creator and the truth will remain. Everything else will vanish like a mirage.
Wake up, humans ! Prepare to meet your Lord. The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.
Time is always running out.
Praise be to GOD Alone, Lord o the universe.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace everyone,
Just found a verse in the quran relevant to the topic
3357 Surely those who harm God and His messenger, God will curse them in this world and in the hereafter; and He has prepared for them a shameful retribution.
How can God be harmed? And once God is harmed, God curses them and they will have shameful retribution in hereafter.
The root Hamza-Thal-Ya also has meanings of hurt, annoy, molest (could not find this root in Project Root List). Even if the word is translated as "annoy", how can God be annoyed? Surely God is all-knowing and will know even before someone tries to annoy/harm/hurt God and will prevent it.
Free minds Quran translation needs to be changed to "annoy" as at least it does not result in a completely nonsensical translation.
Peace
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Peace everyone,
Just found a verse in the quran relevant to the topic
3357 Surely those who harm God and His messenger, God will curse them in this world and in the hereafter; and He has prepared for them a shameful retribution.
How can God be harmed? And once God is harmed, God curses them and they will have shameful retribution in hereafter.
The root Hamza-Thal-Ya also has meanings of hurt, annoy, molest (could not find this root in Project Root List). Even if the word is translated as "annoy", how can God be annoyed? Surely God is all-knowing and will know even before someone tries to annoy/harm/hurt God and will prevent it.
Free minds Quran translation needs to be changed to "annoy" as at least it does not result in a completely nonsensical translation.
Peace
peace be with you, alot of the 'free minds' interpretation is nonsensical, or innaccurate... some verses do not even remotely reflect what the arabic is saying.
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Peace,
Peace everyone,
Just found a verse in the quran relevant to the topic
3357 Surely those who harm God and His messenger, God will curse them in this world and in the hereafter; and He has prepared for them a shameful retribution.
How can God be harmed? And once God is harmed, God curses them and they will have shameful retribution in hereafter.
The root Hamza-Thal-Ya also has meanings of hurt, annoy, molest (could not find this root in Project Root List). Even if the word is translated as "annoy", how can God be annoyed? Surely God is all-knowing and will know even before someone tries to annoy/harm/hurt God and will prevent it.
Free minds Quran translation needs to be changed to "annoy" as at least it does not result in a completely nonsensical translation.
Peace
Good find.
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Peace Truthseeker.
For me it is neither harm nor annoy or "Yudhuna" in 3357.
Try the word "oppose"
3357 Those who oppose GOD and His messenger....GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Truthseeker.
For me it is neither harm nor annoy or "Yudhuna" in 3357.
Try the word "oppose"
3357 Those who oppose GOD and His messenger....GOD bless you.
Peace.That fits great for the verse. bravo bravo bravo
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Peace good logic,
While you are at it, why don't you change the Arabic word as well? What you just did is inexcusable and is not good logic but the worst logical fallacy. This is how people invent a fabrication and others blindly follow and clap. Nice nope
This is proof that someone realizes the Arabic makes no sense and then deliberately invents/fabricates/twists the meaning to make sense.
The word used for oppose in the quran is "haadda" from the root Ha-Dal-Dal (5820-22, 585, 963)
5820 Surely, those who YUHAADDUN/"oppose" God and His messenger, they will be with the lowliest.
5822 You will not find any people who believe in God and the Last Day leaning towards those who HAADDA/"oppose" God and His messenger, .........................
585 Those who YUHAADDUN/"oppose" God and His messenger will be disgraced, like their previous counterparts were disgraced. We have sent down clear proofs, and the rejecters have incurred a shameful retribution.
963 Did they not know that whoever YUHAADIDI/"opposes" God and His messenger, he will have the fire of Hell, abiding therein. Such is the greatest humiliation.
The quran does not run out of words and has the word for oppose in its vocabulary and would have used that word in 3357 if it meant "oppose". The quran CONSISTENTLY uses words derived from "Ha-Dal-Dal" when it means "oppose".
THE ROOT "HAMZA-THAL-YA" DOES NOT MEAN OPPOSE IN ANY OF ITS MEANINGS.
Please do not invent/fabricate/twist meanings to deceive/mislead/misguide others.
378 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.
Peace
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Just letting you guys know i cant speak or read arabic sorry if i made a mistake.
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Peace.
Peace the word I believe is indeed "harm" however the context
is harm which is done with the mouth! I think we all agree that
we cannot harm Allah, we can only harm Allah in the eyes/mind
of others.33/57 Indeed, those who harm Allah and His Messenger (with their mouths)
Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for
them a humiliating punishment.33/58 And those who harm believing men and believing women (with their mouths)
for other than what they have earned have certainly born upon themselves
a slander and manifest sin. -
Peace Truthseeker.
You find contradictions and difficulties in Qoran.
I ,opposethat view.However there is no harm in us having a different opinion.GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salaam/Peace to All,
yes, we may absolutely have different opinions, yet always remain as brothers/sisters nope handshake yes
So here is how I understand it
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57- Surely those who offend/malign/insult (=yudhoona) AL-LAH and HIS Messenger,
AL-LAH will condemn them in this world and in the Hereafter;
and HE has prepared for them a shameful retribution (=exactly equivalent to the "shame"
they want to bring upon AL-LAH and HIS Messenger by their "offend/malign/insult" above =40/17, 40
if they do not repent and return to HIM till the very end of their normal lifespan here =4/17-1.Remain in peace/salaam.
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Peace All.
So where is the argument?
All these words- Harm/Annoy/Insult/Malign/Offend...Mean one is in opposition with!!!i.e oppose
Also the word "Oppose" summs them up perfectly.
Again my opinion.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Peace good logic,
Bad logic as usual. Logical fallacy of unwarranted assumption and false premise.
Someone can hurt/harm others without opposing them, for example setting their house on fire, damaging their car etc. The word in question in 3357 does not mean insult either.
It is nonsense that someone can harm/hurt/annoy God.
Peace
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Peace Truthseeker.
When you say ,quoteSomeone can hurt/harm others without opposing them, for example setting their house on fire, damaging their car etc.
Do you mean by accident?
Because otherwise, they must have some sort of issue with them,hence "in opposition" to them!
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Dear TruthSeeker11,
I am an observer here, a QC muslim, i have been reading your inputs, and i must say im very much moved, your arguments are very cogent and quite strong.
I have even sent you 2 PMs, but perhaps due to long time if inactivity, you may have not read them.
I want to contact you, and i hope to learn a lot from you.
Other members giving inputs on this post, please if you happen to know TruthSeeker11, ask him to see his inbox.
Please do the needful, i will be much obliged.
Peace.
