Can I be a Secret Muslim? (so my family won't know) I don't like starting co
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Peace everyone,
You bring up the names of these prophets as if they did not receive or need to follow God's Words/ Guidance/ Knowledge/Books/Scripture
Alhamdulillah ALLAH is exposing his true nature.
LOGICAL FALLACY OF STRAWMAN (not surprised at all).
Everyone can see how this poster is resorting to propagating falsehood about someone without any evidence. I never claimed that the prophets "did not receive or need to follow God's Words/ Guidance/ Knowledge/Books/Scripture". Not receiving the Quran is not synonymous with "did not receive or need to follow God's Words/ Guidance/ Knowledge/Books/Scripture".
Of course all the messengers received the Book/Message and others tried to corrupt that Book, but the messengers were always guided by the truth. A lot of them, however, did not receive the Quran and they still found the truth.
The Quran itself admits that ayaat/signs are present in the horizons and within ourselves and they will be used for verification of the quran itself (4153). This does not imply abandoning the Quran but that the ayaat are found not ONLY in the Quran but outside Quran as well.
In fact, people who like you tend to encourage abandoning the book and following desires as intuition and assumption
Alhamdulillah ALLAH is exposing his true nature.
LOGICAL FALLACY OF STRAWMAN AND UNWARRANTED ASSUMPTION (not surprised at all).
Again everyone can see how he is resorting to slander without any evidence. I never encouraged abandoning the Book or following assumptions. See how he deliberately deceives others and propagates falsehood and clearly seems confused between intuition and ego.
The Quran itself appeals to the inner compass/intuition (3030). Additionally the Quran itself tells us that internal ayaat/signs within ourselves (5121) will be used for verification of its own truth (4153). The Quran has profound and amazing truths but the Quran itself encourages us not to have blind faith but use our minds/reason/knowledge and that its own truth will be verified using the external signs in horizons and within ourselves.
The point I was trying to make which still sailed above his head and some other members is that the ayaat/signs are not ONLY in the Quran but are present outside the Quran as well. This does not mean abandoning the Quran but that there is no such thing as Quran alone according to the Quran itself, but only ALLAH ALONE. Also I was trying to make the point that the Quran itself encourages us to use mind/reason/knowledge, external signs in the horizons and internal signs within ourselves for verification of any truth instead of blind belief (even the Quran itself).
As far as Imran's rantings are concerned it is all logical fallacy of ad-hominem, red herring and unwarranted assumption.
I hope these posters keep committing these fallacies and thus ALLAH will keep exposing their true nature, in yasha ALLAH.
Keep it coming folks. yay
Peace
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Salam and welcome!!! welcome
Is it OK being a Secret Muslim?
Why don't you first find out what is to be a muslim? !
Do you really need to go out there and say "hey, people, I am a muslim, look at me" wow
I think being a muslim is more action than words or making any kind of confesions. For example, if you conceal the good deeds you do, it is even better (2271 for example). There is no better way to "confess" that you are muslim than acting like one, no need for words.
I don't want to bring conflict into my family by outwardly talking about Islam. I rather keep Islam secret between myself and God. Rabb knows, that's the important thing.
BEING a muslim should not create any kind of conflict in any enviroment. God made it easy if you think of it You will be doing good deeds, praying and spreading the good new of the existance of GOD ALONE. Why should it be a problem to a Christian family?
I know why it is a problem for a Christian family, of course the problem is that when they think about Islam they think about sunnah... Why don't you prepare them first? I mean, why don't you try day by day to explain them what Islam IS NOT, and then starte telling them what ISLAM IS? I am trying this with my family and since the moment it is working far better than I thought! yay
I find that Islam is a truly beautiful religion. I think the Quran is the only word of God. The Hadiths and Sunnah are both innovations, which I don't follow.
handshake
(I know how hard it is!!! group Stay strong!!)
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Use your God given minds folks. brickwall
Why so mad? hmm
Stop beating your head... makes you seem hotheaded nopePeace pr
Peace everyone,
Alhamdulillah ALLAH is exposing his true nature.
LOGICAL FALLACY OF STRAWMAN (not surprised at all).
Everyone can see how this poster is resorting to propagating falsehood about someone without any evidence. I never claimed that the prophets "did not receive or need to follow God's Words/ Guidance/ Knowledge/Books/Scripture". Not receiving the Quran is not synonymous with "did not receive or need to follow God's Words/ Guidance/ Knowledge/Books/Scripture".
Of course all the messengers received the Book/Message and others tried to corrupt that Book, but the messengers were always guided by the truth. A lot of them, however, did not receive the Quran and they still found the truth.
The Quran itself admits that ayaat/signs are present in the horizons and within ourselves and they will be used for verification of the quran itself (4153). This does not imply abandoning the Quran but that the ayaat are found not ONLY in the Quran but outside Quran as well.
Alhamdulillah ALLAH is exposing his true nature.
LOGICAL FALLACY OF STRAWMAN AND UNWARRANTED ASSUMPTION (not surprised at all).
Again everyone can see how he is resorting to slander without any evidence. I never encouraged abandoning the Book or following assumptions. See how he deliberately deceives others and propagates falsehood and clearly seems confused between intuition and ego.
The Quran itself appeals to the inner compass/intuition (3030). Additionally the Quran itself tells us that internal ayaat/signs within ourselves (5121) will be used for verification of its own truth (4153). The Quran has profound and amazing truths but the Quran itself encourages us not to have blind faith but use our minds/reason/knowledge and that its own truth will be verified using the external signs in horizons and within ourselves.
The point I was trying to make which still sailed above his head and some other members is that the ayaat/signs are not ONLY in the Quran but are present outside the Quran as well. This does not mean abandoning the Quran but that there is no such thing as Quran alone according to the Quran itself, but only ALLAH ALONE. Also I was trying to make the point that the Quran itself encourages us to use mind/reason/knowledge, external signs in the horizons and internal signs within ourselves for verification of any truth instead of blind belief (even the Quran itself).
As far as Imran's rantings are concerned it is all logical fallacy of ad-hominem, red herring and unwarranted assumption.
I hope these posters keep committing these fallacies and thus ALLAH will keep exposing their true nature, in yasha ALLAH.
Keep it coming folks. yay
Peace
Ah It seems I hit a nerve with my comments about you believing in aliens... don't take it personal
Take what is good from this
You repeat again
Of course all the messengers received the Book/Message and others tried to corrupt that Book, but the messengers were always guided by the truth. A lot of them, however, did not receive the Quran and they still found the truth.
It seems you are unable to grasp that The Message in Quran and previous Scripture is the same so them not receiving the Quran is irrelevant as they had similar Books
It is like you are persistently trying to claim Quran is not necessary for us to be guided.
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You forget previous generation had their own prophets and Scriptures to uphold
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The Message is the same, never does the Way of Allah change
Another mistake I see you make is your understanding of what a Muslim is.
Quran tells us that all believers are Muslims, muslim is not only designated to those who acknowledge in addition to all other prophets and Books Muhammad and Quran, but to all throughout time who have submitted to The One God.You also seem to misinterpret the verse you keep paraphrasing 4153
I do agree that there are Signs/ Ayaatin within ourselves and in the horizons
There are Verses/Signs/Miracles written in Quran and there are Signs and Miracles in all creation manifested and detailed for us to recognize the truth.
But these ayaatin in creation are for reminder and acknowledgement of The Creator. The Guidance, however, comes from His Words and Verses within The Book for us today!
For example, I can look at the marvel of creation of the heavens and the earth and the withering and ripening of fruits and plants and cycle of seasons and nature, but can that alone guide me to the necessary formalities for marriage and divorce or guide me to the proper way of leaving inheritance as Allah's Instructions?
Probably not.
The ayaatin in the Quran are the very ones that enlightened you about the ayaatin/signs/miracles in the horizons and within yourself.
By no means does 4153 imply that we possess guidance within ourselves, I just want to make that clear if that is what you are implying by all this -
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To OP,
I'm not sure where you stand in your journey of personal development...
I suggest you see things from your "adversaries'" point of view, and then think about what you believe in and what you don't believe in.
If you're a secret or revealed Muslim, what does Muslim mean to you?
To them, the Christians, and most other non-muslims of the world, Islam is an integral package of various stuff such as- Cultural elements such as male and female circumcision.
- All the negative stuff you see on TV, movies and the new paper.
- No alcohol, no pork, no revealed skin, no shaking hands between sexes.
in other words - A stinkily interpreted quran
- Crazy stuff from sunnah and hadith.
All this above is Islam and Muslims to those who stand outside. Right or wrong, that's how it is.
There is no such thing as quran alone Muslim to outsiders. They wont get it. At best it would be accepted as something philosophical, but then soon forgotten.Chances are that people will misunderstand you more when you attach the label Muslim to yourself than when you remain unlabeled. The objective ought to be to have people understand your thinking. Labels will not help in this. Labels will instead make people misunderstand you.
Besides, are you looking for a package, such as a religion?
Born Muslims remain Muslims due to matters of family, culture and identity. Same with other groups. Some though convert from one to another... but mostly they just switch from one package to another.Personally I consider packaged religion as either just status quo identity hobby, or at best a stepping stone on the path of refinement and development towards something better and more real.
I agree that one should stand up for what one believes in.
So, first ponder what you really believe in.
Then see how to make people understand that and not get the wrong idea (as much as possible at least).Cheers
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What I have noticed is that different atheists have different reasons. According to a research, its mostly because of emotional reasons. I also blame priests who say faith and logic can't go hand in hand. That means throwing God out of reality. Christian priests do the worst by saying God is all loving and then not completing the line. Reality is that when we are good to others we attract the positive. When we are bad we attract the negative. Relationship with God works in that same way. When we are good to him and his creation we get his love in return. And of course, this is not always about playing fool by being all emotional. We also have to use the brain!
Very true, especially the one in BOLD!
Thank you so much and ALLAH bless you, reel )
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Peace everyone,
Alhamdulillah, ALLAH has exposed the poster yet again through his posts.
mistake I see you make is your understanding of what a Muslim is.
Quran tells us that all believers are Muslims, muslim is not only designated to those who acknowledge in addition to all other prophets and Books Muhammad and Quran, but to all throughout time who have submitted to The One God.LOGICAL FALLACY OF STRAWMAN AND RED HERRING (not surprising at all).
I have never ever claimed or implied that muslim is "only designated to those who acknowledge in addition to all other prophets and Books Muhammad and Quran". The poster assumes/conjectures I said something and then comments about his own conjecture.
If he had read any of my past posts about "muslim" he would have seen that my view is "all past messengers (referenced in the Quran) were muslims" and therefore the same view as his.
He keeps throwing red herrings to confuse the issue. I have been trying to make the following 2 points
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That ayaat/signs are present in the horizons and within ourselves also and not ONLY in the Quran as per the Quran itself (4153, 5120-21). The Quran itself never promotes Quran alone but promotes ALLAH ALONE (770, 3945, 4012, 4084, 604).
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We should verify any truth using our mind/reason, knowledge, and signs in the horizons and within ourselves as per the Quran itself, instead of blind belief.
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You forget previous generation had their own prophets and Scriptures to uphold
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The Message is the same, never does the Way of Allah change
LOGICAL FALLACY OF UNWARRANTED ASSUMPTION OR STRAWMAN (not surprising at all).
I never forgot that "previous generation had their own prophets and Scriptures to uphold", nor did I claim otherwise.
The basic message was the same, but the Quran is different from the previous messages in some details such as narratives about Muhammad, Zayd, the Romans etc. Of course the fundamental message was the same but not all details. By "not receiving the Quran" I meant "not receiving every single detail present in the Quran". My point was the previous messengers did not receive all the details present in the Quran, yet they were muslims.
From this, I am not implying that the narratives about Muhammad and other details offer no guidance, it would be a logical fallacy for someone to insinuate that.
You also seem to misinterpret the verse you keep paraphrasing 4153
I can say the same thing about his gross misinterpretation of 4153.
Everyone can clearly see that according to 4153, signs in the horizons and within ourselves will be shown to confirm the truth of the Quran. This includes CONFIRMATION OF EVERY SINGLE TRUTH IN THE QURAN INCLUDING THE DETAILED GUIDANCE.
For example the truth of the signs of inheritance will be confirmed by signs in the horizons and within ourselves. This shows that the true guidance about inheritance has to be present outside the Quran also in order for it to confirm the truth of the Quranic guidance. 4153 promises that the truth of each and every sign in the Quran will be confirmed by signs in the horizons and within ourselves.
This clearly indicates that the guidance is found not ONLY in the Quran but outside the Quran as well. There is no such thing as Quran alone even according to the Quran itself but only ALLAH ALONE.
Since this discussion is getting circular, no more comments from me on this issue. Feel free to discard my understanding if it does not resonate with anyone. I have zero interest in discussions based on logical fallacies.
Peace
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This clearly indicates that the guidance is found not ONLY in the Quran but outside the Quran as well. There is no such thing as Quran alone even according to the Quran itself but only ALLAH ALONE.
The entire point....
And for those who idolize Quran, yes, Quran or <<put your holy book or idol's name here>> will be abandoned in the future ..
Language evolved, we can see that even now, the meanings of the words evolved... the word "dien" is a very good example..But the God's message and new revelation will be sent out continuously.. which shall fit the context, challenge and using means or language that is relevant for future time..
The attitude of 'islam' (acceptance of God's will) is being described on thousands of materials and teachings spread around the world, using myriad of language and conveyed in different style using different terminology.. it even appears on today's self help books.Having said that, I fully understand the tendency of human to idolize something or someone..
So feel free to idolize anything or anyone, it's not a crime to do so.. infact it's your rights to do so...
Just respect other people's right to not idolizing your idol (s)... -
Ah I am glad you rephrased your position and further clarified yourself.
Unfortunately I am not in disagreement with what some of what you have now rephrased.
You paint a poor picture of me.
Everyone can clearly see....
And who in the world are you speaking to? LoL (and referring to me in 3rd person as if you are addressing an audience)
If you're trying to depict me in a bad light for the readers or whoever, I will have you know now I have not a single care in the world
what others think of me as an individual. I care what the believers think of God's Words. I care that the believers know they must
hold firm to the Scripture.
I am only here to remind that and to wield and wave my sword of reason and faith against the falsehoods by the Permission of Allah
wherever they come from jedi
After I exposed the falsehood you were promoting about aliens, channeling and false prophets you have been bitter and vengeful voodoo
Repress your hatred towards me if you are a believer
I can say the same thing about his gross misinterpretation of 4153.
Elaborate on my mistake then
For example the truth of the signs of inheritance will be confirmed by signs in the horizons and within ourselves. This shows that the true guidance about inheritance has to be present outside the Quran also in order for it to confirm the truth of the Quranic guidance. 4153 promises that the truth of each and every sign in the Quran will be confirmed by signs in the horizons and within ourselves.
Again you are confusing Guidance and Instructions with Signs and manifestations of Signs
This clearly indicates that the guidance is found not ONLY in the Quran but outside the Quran as well. There is no such thing as Quran alone even according to the Quran itself but only ALLAH ALONE.
Where is your proof if you are truthful? Recite it.
You're a confused fellow hmm
You're whole rhetoric style is fallacious.
You begin with sarcastic remarks about the patriarchs being atheists and other unflattering remarks; God forbid any believer use
such methods for conveying a message.
Then you claim it was a test to see who pays attention to your words. Boii if you don't get yo life...
Then you clarify what you were being sarcastic about and rephrase your position based upon my response..
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?What is wrong with you, how do you judge? Or do you have another book which
you study? In it, you can find what you wish?? (Quran 6836-34330 And when the truth came to them, they said ?This is magic, and
we reject it.?
4331 And they said ?If only this Qur?an was sent down to a man of
greatness from the two towns!?10109 Therefore, follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. He is the best of judges.
?And if We exchange a verse in place of another verse; and God is more aware of
what He is revealing; they Say ?You are making this up!? Alas, most of them do not
know. Say ?The holy Spirit has sent it down from your Lord with truth, so that those
who believe will be strengthened, and as a guidance and good news for those who
have surrendered.?? (Quran 16101-102) -
Peace all,
Alhamdulillah, ALLAH exposes true nature yet again with each and every post. yayEven when proof of clear Quranic signs is given it is not enough and more proof is required. On one hand some claim to be believers and on the other hand refuse to accept clear signs from the Quran and refuse to accept ALLAH ALONE.
2171 And the example of those who cover/conceal is like one who repeats what he has heard of calls and cries; deaf, dumb, and blind, they do not comprehend.
688 So do not obey those who deny/lie.
689 They wish that you compromise, so they too can compromise.
6810 And do not obey every lowly swearer.
6811 A slanderer, a backbiter.It is futile having a discussion with someone who is incapable of having a logical discussion and incapable of comprehension. My only reply to nonsense, ad-hominem and slander would be as follows and addition to ignore list
2855 And if they come across vain talk, they disregard it and say "To us are our deeds, and to you are your deeds. Peace be upon you. We do not seek the ignorant."
I hope such people keep posting so Allah keeps exposing true nature.
Peace
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Just wanted to make a small comment amidst the surge of agitated emotions going on in this thread.
This clearly indicates that the guidance is found not ONLY in the Quran but outside the Quran as well. There is no such thing as Quran alone even according to the Quran itself but only ALLAH ALONE.
The term 'Quran alone' started off as a descriptive term of the idea that the books of Hadith, as well as the Sunna of the Prophet, are not needed to explain the Quran or to add things not detailed in the Quran. 'Quran alone' meant that only the Quran was enough as scriptural guidance, as there are no other required texts.
The discussion about the idea of 'Quran alone' has since broadened into dealing with whether or not we can find reliable guidance also in other scriptures.
Peace all
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Peace Jafar,
But the God's message and new revelation will be sent out continuously.. which shall fit the context, challenge and using means or language that is relevant for future time..
Even the Quran says
144 And We have not sent any messenger except in the language of his people, so he may clarify for them .....................
1047 And for every nation is a messenger; so when their messenger comes, the matter is decreed between them with justice, and they are not wronged.
Having said that, I fully understand the tendency of human to idolize something or someone..
So feel free to idolize anything or anyone, it's not a crime to do so.. infact it's your rights to do so...
Just respect other people's right to not idolizing your idol (s)...bravo bravo bravo
Peace
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beleiving in ancient aliens is idol worship concept as well bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo
believing they are responsible for putting greed in human being is a idol concept ... bravo bravo bravo
allah already exposed the nature of some people in lot of threads... becoz some people think they are more intellignet than God...
even infront of them God is ignorant... less knowledgeable.. etc etc..
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there is a clear violation of chapter 112 by truthseeker when he claim the God is also a part of creation and he ignored the fact of 112 his answers are still due to his claims ... hope he is working on that...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608758.30
22 That is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.
26 As for those who reject, whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.
27 God has sealed their hearts and their ears, and over their eyes are covers. They will incur a great retribution.
28 And from the people are those who say "We believe in God and in the Last Day," but they are not believers.29 They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves without noticing.
210 In their hearts is a disease, so God increases their disease, and they will have a painful retribution for what they have denied. -
Peace Imran,
I have been ignoring your nonsensical unprovoked remarks but you just crossed a line and slandered me.
truthseeker when he claim the God is also a part of creation
Provide evidence where I said "God is part of creation" or apologize for your slander, otherwise I will have to report you for violating forum rule #3. Is this how you propagate falsehood and blatantly lie about others to slander them?
If you do not provide evidence for your slanderous remarks or apologize, I will not consider you a friend anymore. I regret trying to be a sincere friend to you when you were about to ruin yourself.
Everyone here, I am done with this forum for now.
Peace
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i just posted a link... there you will find
read it there ,,, its you who is breaching rules 3 haha proof is this thread... P
even threating me of reporting.. another violation... rotfl
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6103 also proves the Creator is infinite so creation has to be a part of the infinite Creator.
here is another prooof ...
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Peace everyone,
This is to publicly declare that I have reported Imran for violating rule #3 for slandering me without providing any evidence. As everyone can see, nowhere did I ever claim that "God is a part of creation" making creation bigger than God.
Peace
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I have been ignoring your nonsensical unprovoked remarks
i requested to admins please take action regarding this personal insult ...
he is clearly vioating rules of forum in shape of insulting remarks, and on other words my nonsenical remakrks are most of the times the verses of quran which he unable to prove wrong...
and one more thing threating me of no reason ...
peace
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Peace moderators,
As you can clearly see the following is evidence of "nonsensical and unprovoked remarks" because they were unprovoked/irrelevant to ongoing discussion, and slanderous and not backed by any evidence
there is a clear violation of chapter 112 by truthseeker when he claim the God is also a part of creation and he ignored the fact of 112 his answers are still due to his claims ... hope he is working on that...
Also the following post
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608812.msg394294#msg394294
Moderators, please also note that Imran violated forum rule #8 in both these instances.
Peace