Faith no more
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Dear friends,
I have left Islam/Quran. o
I used to be a frequent poster here many years ago. I was a devout proponent of Quran alone, and a diligent student.
I built Quran study tools and posted my analysis of verses but I want to keep my identity secret for now.I also believed in Code 19 (firmly) and scientific miracles of the Quran,
but these unravelled quickly when I studied them critically after learning real maths and science.Salaam/Peace F-N-M,
welcome to the Forum.
if you have already truly learned real Math and Science, that's really Good News, dear Friend.
because if you are a totally truthful and sincere Person, in your heart,
when/if you clearly witness each of these Mathematic and Scientific MIRACLES of QURAN TESTAMENT here,you may wholeheartedly repent and return to your LORD,
and The Most Gracious & The Most Merciful LORD will accept your repentance
and will admit you again among/into HIS Servants, totally Pure and absolutely Blessed,
by HIS such Immense Grace and Compassion here=QURAN TESTAMENT 25/68-69-70-71, 72-73-74-75-76
The Most Essential 5 MIRACLES
with regard to the Textual Design of QURAN TESTAMENT here, first of all1 Perfectly "114" Chapters & "6346" Verses in total in QURAN TESTAMENT =78/29 (1)
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf042.html2 Perfectly "114" Chapters & "6346" Verses in total in QURAN TESTAMENT =78/29 (2)
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf043.html3 Fundamental Miracle of "ODD" & "EVEN" in QURAN TESTAMENT right here now =89/3-5
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf040.html4 Superbly "114" Chapters & "6234" Verses in total in QURAN TESTAMENT =78/29 (1)
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf047.html5 Superbly "114" Chapters & "6234" Verses in total in QURAN TESTAMENT =78/29 (2)
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf048.htmlAnd Then
The Most Essential 5 MIRACLES
with regard to the Scientific Accuracy of QURAN TESTAMENT here, first of all1 Awesomely Sent-Down "IRON" MIRACLE, right here now =57/25
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf055.html2 CHROMOSOMES of "Man & Woman" MIRACLE, right here now =41/53
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf063.html3 ATOMIC (=Proton & Neutron & Electron) MIRACLE, right here now =54/49
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf056.html4 "Speed of LIGHT" foretold in QURAN TESTAMENT =14/1
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf050.html5 "Dark ENERGY" foretold in QURAN TESTAMENT =25/6
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf052.htmlthese are not Rashad Khalifa's works, these are totally new and absolutely real
most Superb and matchless Mathematic and Scientific MIRACLES of QURAN TESTAMENT,so if you are a sincere Person who truly "learned real Math and Science" (as you claim above),
then please, clearly see each and every of those Mathematic and Scientific MIRACLES above,
and then let me know if you have any question or objection therein, first of all.But if you do not do this but instead try to ignore and overlook them with any flimsy excuse here,
it will be an enough evidence for me that you are not a sincere Person, in your heart, at all, and you are not an earnest Truth-Seeker, at all,but if you have the courage to do this, and if you are brave enough to get into a truthful Discussion with me one on one,
here in this thread or in any other thread, you may wish to start,
then I may clearly and unmistakably prove to you whythere is absolutely and only One God (=AL-LAH),
and why
HE is The Most Gracious and The Most Merciful, in all of HIS Words & Judgments,
from the Eternity to the Eternity.
The Immense Mercy and Forgiveness of AL-LAH will absolutely embrace and save you,
and HE will thus make you totally Pure and absolutely Blessed again,
when/if you wholeheartedly repent and return to HIM now,
even after having thus been provoked against HIM by Iblees/Satan's army (=6/112-113),====================
6- O Human, who/what have provoked you against your LORD?QURAN TESTAMENT 82/6
====================
70- As for the one who repents and believes and does good works, for those AL-LAH will transform (even) their past-sins into Credits,
for AL-LAH is Best-Forgiving, Most-Merciful.71- Because whoever repents, and does good works, then he/she repents towards AL-LAH as his/her repentance fully accepted.
QURAN TESTAMENT 25/70-71
Remain in peace/salaam.
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http//ilmfeed.com/how-does-the-earliest-manuscript-of-the-quran-compare-to-todays-quran/
a gift for people who still think quran is changed...
He is the One who continuously shows you His proofs, and sends down to you from the sky provisions. Only those who totally submit will be able to take heed.
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This forum is still "Free Minds" though, isn't it?
If we all keep it civil and polite, respecting one another's beliefs, I see no reason why we all can't have a good discussion. group peace
I wasn't telling him to leave the forum, but Quran. At this point, we need people who can read and use their brain to connect with Allah instead of wasting time in listening to audio of the Quran. It is extremely obvious that he was not applying the book in his life from this
I know the usual excuses, ?It?s not a book of science?, ?don?t take it literally?. How long can one take this approach? Soon there will be nothing literal left in the Quran. It offers no insight into the world and or any guidance. Most of the Quran is about following the messenger blindly. Mohammed was trying to build up a following through fear. He offered no miracles or any knowledge that people didn?t already have. ?Believe in me or you will be punished?. Of course the punishment didn?t come from God but from the hands of Mohammed. If you study him as a historical character, he is awful.
So why bother encouraging him to stay with the Book and Islam?
I pray that he remains happy in whatever he chooses. Meanwhile, you enjoy the beauty of sun setting in murky water
Country Bangladesh
http//wikitravel.org/upload/shared//thumb/f/fe/Sunsetatcoxsbazar.jpg/400px-Sunsetatcoxsbazar.jpg
https//encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbnANd9GcRylcJhdgKaIbpVONz_rXpsYqLO7phNeAiAr0CT7uxWZU4jpmiaI have been longing to see this for so long. My friends told me the sun looks exactly like a golden plate during this specific moment. Too bad, we don't have it in CA. It can be seen from only few areas of the earth.
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as far i concerned here are some fellows who are insisting continously that quran contradict with science in lot of things... let me start with EMBRYOLOGY... although it will take some time , to read all this.. so go through it and read what is there... or atleast read the bold parts ...
All the information from the Qur?aan so gathered, was translated into English and presented to Prof. (Dr.) Keith Moore, who was the Professor of Embryology and Chairman of the Department of Anatomy at the University of Toronto, in Canada. At present he is one of the highest authorities in the field of Embryology. He was asked to give his opinion regarding the information present in the Qur?aan concerning the field of embryology. After carefully examining the translation of the Qur?aanic verses presented to him, Dr. Moore said that most of the information concerning embryology mentioned in the Qur?aan is in perfect conformity with modern discoveries in the field of embryology and does not conflict with them in any way. He added that there were however a few verses, on whose scientific accuracy he could not comment. He could not say whether the statements were true or false, since he himself was not aware of the information contained therein.
The word alaq besides meaning a congealed clot of blood also means something that clings, a leech-like substance. Dr. Keith Moore had no knowledge whether an embryo in the initial stages appears like a leech. To check this out he studied the initial stage of the embryo under a very powerful microscope in his laboratory and compared what he observed with a diagram of a leech and he was astonished at the striking resemblance between the two!
In the same manner, he acquired more information on embryology that was hitherto not known to him, from the Qur?aan. Dr. Keith Moore answered about eighty questions dealing with embryological data mentioned in the Qur?aan
Dr. Keith Moore had earlier authored the book, ?The Developing Human?. After acquiring new knowledge from the Qur?aan, he wrote, in 1982, the 3rd edition of the same book, ?The Developing Human?. The book was the recipient of an award for the best medical book written by a single author. This book has been translated into several major languages of the world and is used as a textbook of embryology in the first year of medical studies.
In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Dr. Moore said, ?It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur?aan about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God or Allah, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God or Allah
the bones and flesh stages continue in next post ...
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?Man We did create From a quintessence (of clay); Then We placed him As (a drop of) sperm In a place of rest, firmly fixed; Then We made the sperm Into a clot of congealed blood; Then of that clot We made A (foetus) lump; then We Made out of that lump Bones and clothed the bones With flesh; then We developed Out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, The Best to create!?
In this verse Allah states that man is created from a small quantity of liquid which is placed in a place of rest, firmly fixed (well established or lodged) for which the Arabic word qar?rin mak?n is used.( Science has confirmed in recent times that only one out of an average of three million sperms is required for fertilising the ovum. This means that only a 1/three millionth part or 0.00003% of the quantity of sperms that are emitted is required for fertilisation.)
The uterus is well protected from the posterior by the spinal column supported firmly by the back muscles. The embryo is further protected by the amniotic sac containing the amniotic fluid. Thus the foetus has a well protected dwelling place. This small quantity of fluid is made into alaqah, meaning something which clings. It also means a leech-like substance. Both descriptions are scientifically acceptable as in the very early stages the foetus clings to the wall and also appears to resemble the leech in shape. It also behaves like a leech (blood sucker) and acquires its blood supply from the mother through the placenta. The third meaning of the word alaqah is a blood clot. During this alaqah stage, which spans the third and fourth week of pregnancy, the blood clots within closed vessels. Hence the embryo acquires the appearance of a blood clot in addition to acquiring the appearance of a leech. In 1677, Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the first scientists to observe human sperm cells (spermatozoa) using a microscope. They thought that a sperm cell contained a miniature human being which grew in the uterus to form a newborn. This was known as the perforation theory. When scientists discovered that the ovum was bigger than the sperm, it was thought by De Graf and others that the foetus existed in a miniature form in the ovum. Later, in the 18th century Maupertuis propagated the theory of biparental inheritance. The alaqah is transformed into mudghah which means ?something that is chewed (having teeth marks)? and also something that is tacky and small which can be put in the mouth like gum. Both these explanations are scientifically correct. Prof. Keith Moore took a piece of plaster seal and made it into the size and shape of the early stage of foetus and chewed it between the teeth to make it into a ?Mudgha?. He compared this with the photographs of the early stage of foetus. The teeth marks resembled the ?somites? which is the early formation of the spinal column.
This mudghah is transformed into bones (iz?m). The bones are clothed with intact flesh or muscles (lahm). Then Allah makes it into another creature.Prof. Marshall Johnson is one of the leading scientists in US, and is the head of the Department of Anatomy and Director of the Daniel Institute at the Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia in US. He was asked to comment on the verses of the Qur?aan dealing with embryology. He said that the verses of the Qur?aan describing the embryological stages cannot be a coincidence. He said it was probable that Muhammad (pbuh) had a powerful microscope. On being reminded that the Qur?aan was revealed 1400 years ago, and microscopes were invented centuries after the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Prof. Johnson laughed and admitted that the first microscope invented could not magnify more than 10 times and could not show a clear picture. Later he said ?I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that Divine intervention was involved when Muhammad (pbuh) recited the Qur?aan.?
According to Dr. Keith Moore, the modern classification of embryonic development stages which is adopted throughout the world, is not easily comprehensible, since it identifies stages on a numerical basis i.e. stage I, stage II, etc. The divisions revealed in the Qur?aan are based on distinct and easily identifiable forms or shapes, which the embryo passes through. These are based on different phases of prenatal development and provide elegant scientific descriptions that are comprehensible and practical.
Similar embryological stages of human development have been described in the following verses ?Was he not a drop Of sperm emitted (In lowly form)? Then did he become a clinging clot; Then did (Allah) make and fashion (him) In due proportion. And of him He made Two sexes, male and female.?
?Him Who created thee, fashioned thee in due proportion, And gave thee a just bias; In whatever Form He wills, Does He put thee together.?According to Prof. Johnson, if we describe the embryo as a complete creation, then we are only describing that part which is already created. If we describe it as an incomplete creation, then we are only describing that part which is not yet created. So, is it a complete creation or an incomplete creation? There is no better description of this stage of embryogenesis than the Qur?aanic description, ?partly formed and partly unformed?, as in the following verse ?We created you Out of dust, then out of Sperm, then out of a leech-like Clot, then out of a morsel Of flesh, partly formed And partly unformed.?
i always give gifts so a gift about one more thing regarding stage of embroylogy is in next post
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I wasn't telling him to leave the forum, but Quran. At this point, we need people who can read and use their brain to connect with Allah instead of wasting time in listening to audio of the Quran. It is extremely obvious that he was not applying the book in his life from this
Got it, understood. There was a miscommunication then and I apologize. group
http//wikitravel.org/upload/shared//thumb/f/fe/Sunsetatcoxsbazar.jpg/400px-Sunsetatcoxsbazar.jpg
https//encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbnANd9GcRylcJhdgKaIbpVONz_rXpsYqLO7phNeAiAr0CT7uxWZU4jpmiaI have been longing to see this for so long. My friends told me the sun looks exactly like a golden plate during this specific moment. Too bad, we don't have it in CA. It can be seen from only few areas of the earth.
So beautiful!
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The first sense to develop in a developing human embryo is hearing. The foetus can hear sounds after the 24th week. Subsequently, the sense of sight is developed and by the 28th week, the retina becomes sensitive to light.
Consider the following Qur?aanic verses related to the development of the senses in the embryo ?And He gave You (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (And understanding).?
?Verily We created Man from a drop Of mingled sperm, In order to try him So We gave him (the gifts), Of Hearing and Sight.?
?It is He Who has created For you (the faculties of) Hearing, sight, feeling And understanding little thanks It is ye give!?
In all these verses the sense of hearing is mentioned before that of sight. Thus the Qur?aanic description matches with the discoveries in modern embryology.
peace yeah
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tomorrow i will give some more lectures on other concepts like cosmology and moutnains stuff if God willing
together towards the boss of all books QURAN cheeeeers budy...
i remember once a attitude of a big player of football,, he kicked the football... but football just hit the pole... he claimed my kick was correct but the dimemshans of pole is not correct double check it... and he was right ..... rotfl rotfl
even if was not a true event i have no issue i get the message what he want to convey...lol..
i believe my lord is free of mistakes... and request to all of my brothers and sisters.. read it very carefully before making any claims... which contradicts the very teaching of quran..
peace and God bless you all group
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I pray that he remains happy in whatever he chooses. Meanwhile, you enjoy the beauty of sun setting in murky water D
rotfl i remember once a colleage from work ask me the same question she told me there is a scientific error... that sun set in murky water...
infact it not a error at all... it appears to zulqurnain that sun is setting in murky water.. same like the picture... !
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I think youve misunderstood my position. I never rejected the Quran because of something I found in hadith or history. I rejected the Quran first and then studied Islam/Mohammed as a historian. I was a Quranist and had an audio of the Quran on playback most of the time. After a while I found the hatred very problematic and for a year was afraid to listen to the Quran in case I found another issue. I made excuses like, Its classical Arabic. Ill never understand it. Maybe I dont have the right dictionaries. Maybe the verses havent been preserved correctly e.t.c. Trust me, I made every possible excuse, took every possible position not to reject the Quran.
Also now that the Quranist mentality is not applicable, I can understand the view point of the Quran + Hadith camp. I dont have a vested interest in either position, so I can see them objectively. They are both equally justified.
When I look at Islamic history now, I ask myself Can the justification for this act or behaviour be found in the Quran? and the answer yes mostly.
So, again there is no 180 turn. Just the Quran by itself was enough to reject it.
Happy to clarify my position further if needed.
So to summarize
As a non-believer I see both as equally valid positions.
Are you asking me what issues I found in the Quran?No, I wasn't talking about what issues you have found at all. I was simply asking if you would agree that Qur'an needs the accepted Islamic history in order to understand it. Not about rejection or belief, but simply asking if you thought the book needs that historical context or not. I see you speak about taking history into account, so I would say yes, but then you also say you see them both objectively and by themselves, so I am still a bit confused but from your line that that they are both equally valid, I believe I now understand your position. I take it that you can think either way, depending on your audience, but you do think that Islamic history can be something to be considered.
Thanks for the clarification. peace
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Believe me or be punished is also done by our parents, the people that love us most in this world. When I did something wrong as a kid i remember my father or mother punishing me, did they hate me? Were they tyrants? Was it out of love?...
bravo
I would also advise you to read ALL post of truthseeker11 and reel. Insha ALLAH, you will comprehend Islam better than before. Also, see link below....
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607488.0
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Please reflect on what you said,Quote
This I do not agree with you on though. Quran was made written by Rabb or to say an insightful prophet who were in the Rabb and the Rabb in him (or could be her). The "bullshit" is whatever story has been fabricated about Quran on what it should say. Few people are objective though, this is correct, and that is why no one has challenged to established interpretation on a wider scale and why the current flimsy version of it is still accepted. To read Quran as intended it needs a complete reevaluation.
I know what I wrote so there is not really any need to reflect. What is your point?
Then you go on to add,quote
This is true. Quran is full of hate. The god is completely out of control and will condemn people eternally for not believing in it. It is like a megalomaniac dictator who just cannot get enough of attention and will execute anyone who does not accept him. No one ever reflects on it that way.
Is it not true?
And ,quote
Quran seems to make little distinction between man and woman, not prioritizing it as something important. We only have genders in the body while the spirit is asexual. For a bodily/worldly person the gender might be important.
Well, Quran does not have any particular emphasis on genders. Why would it be important if it is only in the flesh where you have a gender?
Is this not confusing?
What is confusing?
I thought the Arabic Qoran says the same things since over 1400 years ago? Where do you see the contradictions?
Yes,brother,I forgot, you are going to explain it in your next post?
GOD bless you.
PeaceIt never had a proper interpretation. It is full of contradictions and inconsistencies if one is objective just like 'FaithNoMore' has pointed out. But like I wrote, rather than 'FaithNoMore' claims, Quran does say underneath all that falsehood something else which is much more sensible.
I suppose where you are getting. I forgot to add the usual "in the sectarian interpretation of". Obviously I mean only in the sectarian intrpretation "Quran is full of hate".
Quran was made written by Rabb
Quran is full of hate
Be well
Amenuel -
The sentence started really bad, I was using my mobile and thinking to fast while typing really slow ;D. My english is awesome btw
The power of the human brain's "auto correct"... I read it as, "Believe me or not, punishment is also done by our parents..."
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Salaam MoF,
Red nope
Inna hudaAllahi huwa alHuda.
I wrote "in the sectarian interpretation of" within parenthesis. Quran is guiding.
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You are on a different level. I like it.
Do you have a youtube channel. You should present your views in videos or in a blog.
Unfortunately not. I only have another forum. But making a presentation on YouTube might not be a bad idea.
Faith is really really simple, it only takes realizing the world is a test and that it is intentionally made to corrupt its inhabitants into primitive activities, religious thinking included with a Pagan visualization of a god. The remedy is to simply be aware of the fact it is corrupting and do something about it using your willpower against the primate body (science proves the human is an ape, right?). The common religious belief is a kind of faith which is only an upgrade of the physical stone statues, it is like a virtual god statue instead but still an object. It is like Paganism 2.0. It is pretty dimwitted actually, but I have been there done that too, I have also been deluded while I as ignorant, and my faith was more sound while I had not let myself be absorbed by (the sectarian interpretation of) Quran and the sect Islam. Yet this 'Rabb' phenomenon drew me towards Quran for a reason. I did not grow up with Quran, I had not even experienced it until I was about 28 years old and I even held prejudices both towards it and Muslims because their faith seemed so primitive, yet I over a couple of years or so started with those sectarian fabricated prayers because at first Quran made such a strong impression on me, until I turned to study it objectively. Questions one can ask is "Why would the most advanced phenomenon in existence require this from me?, or "What do I exactly benefit from these physical movements and why do they resemble how Pagans worshiped their statues in the past and how people glorified their worldly megalomaniac dictator king in ancient kingdoms?", or "is "God" not more sophisticated than that?", or "Does "God" wish to create some sort of pet farm with pets that do not fill any productive use?"
The phenomenon called "God" is truly a oneness, working like a singularity meaning it contains a lot, but it has no real space taking yet inside the singularity it seems enormous. Everything within the singularity is of its contents, and that is true for us, we are a part of this unit. We are to develop an independent Being within the Unity. The strength of your being is what is most important of everything.
Be well
Amenuel -
@ mof you are also insightful perosn isnt it?
If you have insight you are insightful, are you not?
Either way it is up to each person to judge that themselves. That is not my problem. And I do not have a problem if someone says I have not, and it is their problem whatever happens with them, it is their fate.
Be well
Amenuel -
Peace all,
Thank you brother Hizbullah for the kind words.
I would urge everyone to read Hizbullah's posts, since he has an excellent grasp of intricacies of the Quranic system. I would however like to stress that we are all human and therefore prone to making mistakes, so please verify everything you read for yourself and use mind/reason, inner compass, knowledge, and truths in the horizons and within yourselves to verify the truth of anything you come across. Please discard anything I say that does not resonate with you. In reality only our RABB guides and only our RABB is the source of all truth.
May our RABB guide us all to the truth.
Peace
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sometimes its better to look around before cross the road.... )
now look around again... before and after 4153 all of you... brothers and sisters...
4152 Say, ?Think If this (revelation) is from God, and then you reject it! Who is further astray than one who stubbornly opposes it?? tempt
4153 Soon, shall We show them Our signs in the utmost Horizons and within themselves until it becomes obvious to them that this Qur?an is certainly the Truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is Witness to all things (including this proclamation)? within themselves signs(ayat) i already describe .. the ayats regarding horizons and stuff like 2130 big bang exapanding universe and so on is also need to be ponder... but either way the discoveries of these signs what mention in quran regarding both claims are successfully achieved...
4154 Indeed, they are in doubt about meeting their Lord; but He is Encompassing over all things.
may God bless us wisdom to understand some things which are not really difficult ... hail
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If you have insight you are insightful, are you not?
Either way it is up to each person to judge that themselves. That is not my problem. And I do not have a problem if someone says I have not, and it is their problem whatever happens with them, it is their fate.
Be well
Amenuelhmm allright..
is there is any difference between the prophet and the one who have insight in it? like me and you... i mean any color code /dress code/ scripture code... or any thing that make him qualified as a prophet ..
is it also important for the insighttful person to meet with gabi...
may b sometimes he also see God in the shape of powerful light that break things around... hmm
can somebody become insightful(prophet) by his own choice or it God that make a decision ?