Would you commit shirk if God told you so ?
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Peace
Would you commit shirk if God told you so ?
The up to date translation of the Quran say that angels prostrated to Adam. However isnt it shirk ?
Ok so Iblis maybe did not commit shirk by not prostrating, however he disobeyed God, which is also sin. However I wonder how strong was Iblis that he could refuse to the Sustainer and controller of everything, who says be and it its, especially in the presence of the All mighty. hmmConsequently, because he disobeyed God casted Iblis out of the Heaven, and Iblis took the role of the Devil, who will make humans go astray. hmm
Ok.
So the up to date translation of The Book, also says that he was not an angel, but he was a jinn. And thats why he could disobey his Lord. Because apparently angels have no free-will. So if we are bad because there is Iblis who is making us go stray. Than what about the Jiins? Who makes them go astray ? Is it how it works ?
And didnt God say to the angels that he is creating Adam to be on earth ? hmm
However Adam ate the forbidden fruit and he too got casted out of Heaven. I dont know, but this story of Iblis and his disobeyence sounds illogical, especially when the up to date version of translation of the Quran says that the Adam WAS made to be on earth.
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Again, you are limiting the meaning of the word 'sajdah/sujood' to physical prostration just like you did with 'worship' in your other post ) According to the Quran the trees also 'prostrate' to God. Everything in nature submits to God's law. It doesn't always have to have a physical ritual meaning. I myself interpret it as angels who are serving/helping us because God commanded them to do so.
God indeed said that he would put a representative (Adam) on earth. This is because God already knows what will happen in the future. He is Knower of the unseen and the seen.
God would never tell us to commit shirk. Shirk is the only 'religion' the Quran has a problem with. The Quran tells us that God is sufficient for us and closer to us than our jugular vein, while shirk tells us that God is not enough and that we need intercessors, intermediares, other deities, etc. and thus, underestimating the true Power of God.
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Again, you are limiting the meaning of the word 'sajdah/sujood' to physical prostration just like you did with 'worship' in your other post ) According to the Quran the trees also 'prostrate' to God. Everything in nature submits to God's law. It doesn't always have to have a physical ritual meaning. I myself interpret it as angels who are serving/helping us because God commanded them to do so.
God indeed said that he would put a representative (Adam) on earth. This is because God already knows what will happen in the future. He is Knower of the unseen and the seen.
God would never tell us to commit shirk. Shirk is the only 'religion' the Quran has a problem with. The Quran tells us that God is sufficient for us and closer to us than our jugular vein, while shirk tells us that God is not enough and that we need intercessors, intermediares, other deities, etc. and thus, underestimating the true Power of God.
God says clearly that he breathed of his spirit onto Adam. And he placed Adam as the controller on Earth. We have the divine inside of us. However we are playing along by the people who are trying to control us and not let us to be the controllers of Earth. Its you and God. God breathed of his spirit into you. Thats why salvationism is so deluded, because you believe that another entity will come and rescue this world. This goes against your divine self and it makes you weak because you start to rely on a separate entity and not our divine self.
Why the need to prostrate if Gods spirit is inside of you and me or any human being that is alive right now on this Earth. In a way see it this way. If I want to serve God, I should serve you or any human being. For a better cause or a better world.
We have the power to make this Earth a much better place to be. However people are ignoring their divine nature. Dont you see we are slaves to money. We are slaves to evil/arrogant/selfish/ego-driven individuals. And its not their fault, it is our fault. Because we ignore our divine nature and we give our future into hands of so called "leaders" of our countries that only divide and rule us. We let them be who they are. When in fact we could make the world we would want to live in.
Simply said We made them for ourselves as "Gods" and we are paying the consequences.
By the logic that God already knows the future. Than all this "Testing" is for nothing. When one tests something, one creates certain conditions such as, time/duration,participants,rules and etc. However one tries not to interfere to get the most objective results from the test. And if it is that God already knows the results of the test, from the beginning of the test. Than its not a test. Just mere movie, where we play the roles of bad and good guys. No freedom of choice, just playing along by the script. Do you see how it cannot be. If we believe in fairness ? Then go jump out of the window. God already knew that you would jump, right ?
Last but not least. The moment we create for ourselves Idols or Saviors outside of ourselves. We try to please them believing that they will make our future better, when we know they cant benefit nor harm us. We fail our mission given by God. Because WE were created to be his representatives on this Earth. He gave us of his spirit. Its in you, in me, and in any other human being. We should stop looking outside and start looking inside of us. And finally take matters to our own hands and fulfill our potential.
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Peace
Would you commit shirk if God told you so ?
The up to date translation of the Quran say that angels prostrated to Adam. However isnt it shirk ?
Ok so Iblis maybe did not commit shirk by not prostrating, however he disobeyed God, which is also sin. However I wonder how strong was Iblis that he could refuse to the Sustainer and controller of everything, who says be and it its, especially in the presence of the All mighty. hmmConsequently, because he disobeyed God casted Iblis out of the Heaven, and Iblis took the role of the Devil, who will make humans go astray. hmm
Ok.
So the up to date translation of The Book, also says that he was not an angel, but he was a jinn. And thats why he could disobey his Lord. Because apparently angels have no free-will. So if we are bad because there is Iblis who is making us go stray. Than what about the Jiins? Who makes them go astray ? Is it how it works ?
And didnt God say to the angels that he is creating Adam to be on earth ? hmm
However Adam ate the forbidden fruit and he too got casted out of Heaven. I dont know, but this story of Iblis and his disobeyence sounds illogical, especially when the up to date version of translation of the Quran says that the Adam WAS made to be on earth.
Depends on the interpretation of things.
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Sejida means "be submitted to", which kind of implies that something is compulsory rather than voluntary. For example, you have to go through a test and you do not have a say about it but have to go through the stages of that testing in order to pass on. This is what the passage you refer to actually talks about too in the 'real' interpretation of Quran.
Be well
Amenuel -
Salam,
I would have to disagree in that the ultimate goal is not to manifest one's "divinity" to merely serve oneself and others to make the duniya a better safer place.
The ultimate goal should be to achieve growth in one's "divinity" in order to move on to a higher station once we graduate from the duniya. In order to achieve this one must implement steps that lead to a better duniya as a side product.
The duniya is not eternal, even science confirms this. It would be a waste to merely serve oneself without the goal to transition to a better place.
God says clearly that he breathed of his spirit onto Adam. And he placed Adam as the controller on Earth. We have the divine inside of us. However we are playing along by the people who are trying to control us and not let us to be the controllers of Earth. Its you and God. God breathed of his spirit into you. Thats why salvationism is so deluded, because you believe that another entity will come and rescue this world. This goes against your divine self and it makes you weak because you start to rely on a separate entity and not our divine self.
Why the need to prostrate if Gods spirit is inside of you and me or any human being that is alive right now on this Earth. In a way see it this way. If I want to serve God, I should serve you or any human being. For a better cause or a better world.
We have the power to make this Earth a much better place to be. However people are ignoring their divine nature. Dont you see we are slaves to money. We are slaves to evil/arrogant/selfish/ego-driven individuals. And its not their fault, it is our fault. Because we ignore our divine nature and we give our future into hands of so called "leaders" of our countries that only divide and rule us. We let them be who they are. When in fact we could make the world we would want to live in.
Simply said We made them for ourselves as "Gods" and we are paying the consequences.
By the logic that God already knows the future. Than all this "Testing" is for nothing. When one tests something, one creates certain conditions such as, time/duration,participants,rules and etc. However one tries not to interfere to get the most objective results from the test. And if it is that God already knows the results of the test, from the beginning of the test. Than its not a test. Just mere movie, where we play the roles of bad and good guys. No freedom of choice, just playing along by the script. Do you see how it cannot be. If we believe in fairness ? Then go jump out of the window. God already knew that you would jump, right ?
Last but not least. The moment we create for ourselves Idols or Saviors outside of ourselves. We try to please them believing that they will make our future better, when we know they cant benefit nor harm us. We fail our mission given by God. Because WE were created to be his representatives on this Earth. He gave us of his spirit. Its in you, in me, and in any other human being. We should stop looking outside and start looking inside of us. And finally take matters to our own hands and fulfill our potential.
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brother hansolo, i think you already read the full topic of that occassion....
at first when God decided to make a khalifa on earth... it appears that angels also ask something from God..
but they did not stand against God... they asked why are you creating such creation that will shed blood on earth..
then God replied i know what you dnt know.. story continue God teach adam some things/names/laws and when there is a comptetion happen between angels and adam, adam won that competetion... and
then angels convinced and understand , and replied to God no doubt you know all the secrets of heavens and earth...
so they prostrate/sujood to adam.. by default they happily accept the task to serve humanity like regulating winds, put men to death, teach a lesson to wicked like nation of lot , recording the deeds. regulating the laws ... so this is not a shirk...
on the other hand , the creation who was ignorant/arrogant/jealous from that previlege to human oppose God clearly and become one of the wrong doer...
whats wrong with you.. what stops you doing what I(GOD) order you?
because you make him out of mud whereas i m more better in status than him... ( arrogance/proud/envy)he choose a wrong choice for himself... the outcast /expelled character..
angels are logical , they know what is truth= hence free will or without free will dosent matter when decison on both equation is bending towards God... i mean there understanding of God is on advance level and they know God is the creator of heavens and earth and thats why they already submitted their will to God...
about jinns and humans there test is not finished yet... its a present situation what we are dealing.... the eblees claimed he is a true beleiver as soon first test approach him he show his real face... try to get this thing... remeber the event of battle uhud , so God must test you. and everybody
everybody is responsible for his deeds , satan can only tricks you... but the real beleiver or advance beleiver if already know the tricks and lies of wrong doing ,he will stay away, and these are the ones who are righteous servants of God...
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but they did not stand against God... they asked why are you creating such creation that will shed blood on earth..
That's sectarian corruption. Angels weren't seeing the future. The rest of the verses show that. Allah was putting blood shedders (already present on earth) into successor's role and the angels were just shocked by it.
then God replied i know what you dnt know.. story continue God teach adam some things/names/laws and when there is a comptetionhappen between angels and adam, adam won that competetion... and
In which verses?
on the other hand , the creation who was ignorant/arrogant/jealous from that previlege to human oppose God clearly and become one of the wrong doer...
Everything is God's creation. Let's just call the guy Iblees, his real name.
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Peace
Would you commit shirk if God told you so ?
The up to date translation of the Quran say that angels prostrated to Adam. However isnt it shirk ?
Ok so Iblis maybe did not commit shirk by not prostrating, however he disobeyed God, which is also sin. However I wonder how strong was Iblis that he could refuse to the Sustainer and controller of everything, who says be and it its, especially in the presence of the All mighty. hmmConsequently, because he disobeyed God casted Iblis out of the Heaven, and Iblis took the role of the Devil, who will make humans go astray. hmm
Ok.
So the up to date translation of The Book, also says that he was not an angel, but he was a jinn. And thats why he could disobey his Lord. Because apparently angels have no free-will. So if we are bad because there is Iblis who is making us go stray. Than what about the Jiins? Who makes them go astray ? Is it how it works ?
And didnt God say to the angels that he is creating Adam to be on earth ? hmm
However Adam ate the forbidden fruit and he too got casted out of Heaven. I dont know, but this story of Iblis and his disobeyence sounds illogical, especially when the up to date version of translation of the Quran says that the Adam WAS made to be on earth.
Why would our Lord tell us something that contradicts Hes previous words..
I really recommend you to read the Torah if you want to study the story of Adam and Eve in detail.
To me it seems that the Quran is an updated Revelation which contains some reminders of Adam and even some new information about Adam.
But the root story of Adam and the Tree can be found in the Torah.
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That's sectarian corruption. Angels weren't seeing the future. The rest of the verses show that. Allah was putting blood shedders (already present on earth) into successor's role and the angels were just shocked by it.
In which verses?the verses are here and its not a traditional translations...
230 Your Lord said to the controllers/angels, "I am placing a successor on earth." They said, "Would You place in it he who would corrupt it, and shed blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said, "I know what you do not know."
231 He taught Adam the description of all things, and then He displayed them to the controllers/angels and said, "Inform Me the descriptions of these things if you are truthful."
232 They said, "Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except what You have taught us, You are the Knowledgeable, the Wise.
233 He said, "O Adam, inform them of the descriptions of these." When he informed them of their descriptions, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen of the heavens and the earth, and that I know what you reveal and what you were hiding?
234 And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam," so they yielded except for ibless, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.
what you asked i represented you... now i will just gona ask one very simple question , show me a single verse from whole quran, what you claim in red part thanx in advance
Everything is God's creation. Let's just call the guy Iblees, his real name.
allright , satan is just an adjective for that guy... obviously his name is ibless...
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the verses are here and its not a traditional translations...
230 Your Lord said to the controllers/angels, "I am placing a successor on earth." They said, "Would You place in it he who would corrupt it, and shed blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said, "I know what you do not know."
231 He taught Adam the description of all things, and then He displayed them to the controllers/angels and said, "Inform Me the descriptions of these things if you are truthful."
232 They said, "Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except what You have taught us, You are the Knowledgeable, the Wise.
233 He said, "O Adam, inform them of the descriptions of these." When he informed them of their descriptions, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen of the heavens and the earth, and that I know what you reveal and what you were hiding?
234 And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam," so they yielded except for ibless, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.
what you asked i represented you... now i will just gona ask one very simple question , show me a single verse from whole quran, what you claim in red part thanx in advance
allright , satan is just an adjective for that guy... obviously his name is ibless...
Where is the competition with the angels? Angels knew before God that Adam genderation would be bloodshedders? They say this
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."232
Or do we believe as Invalid once wondered, humans multiplied through incest?
Note
Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay.327
And Allah has caused you to grow from the earth a growth7117 -
Where is the competition with the angels? Angels knew before God that Adam genderation would be bloodshedders? They say this
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."232
Or do we believe as Invalid once wondered, humans multiplied through incest?
Note
Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay.327
And Allah has caused you to grow from the earth a growth7117And you can see through that, that angels can master their own ability to think and reflect, i.e. they have an ability. In that sectarian interpretation the angels think every Adam will just cause havoc on Earth while "God" knows better and knows some Adam subjects will fare better than others.
Be well
Amenuel -
Where is the competition with the angels? Angels knew before God that Adam genderation would be bloodshedders? They say this
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."232
Or do we believe as Invalid once wondered, humans multiplied through incest?
Note
Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay.327
And Allah has caused you to grow from the earth a growth7117u asked me about competetion(event).. i represent the verses ,31-33 in which God ask things from adam and controllers.. adam told the names whereas angels could not... competetion game test exam contest whatever anybody wish give that situation a name, i used competetion... even if i dnt use it , it will not gona change the fact ... that human being won that test/competetion/event/contest/exam , and hence verse 34 is a prize /previlege to humanity from controllers... with the command of God.. btw you can remove the word competetion and about this situation find a word let me know that word . we will see that fit there or not.. lol
is it really hard to understand?
and again i was looking for what you claim... in red part... do u find any verse or still searching...?
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Salam
Many of the People of the Scripture wish they could turn you back to disbelief after you have believed, out of envy from themselves after the truth has become clear to them. So pardon and overlook until Allah delivers His command. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.
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230 Your Lord said to the controllers/angels, "I am placing a successor on earth." They said, "Would You place in it he who would corrupt it, and shed blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said, "I know what you do not know."
What makes "successor" relate to Adam and not to Iblis ? Or something else other than the two ?
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What makes "successor" relate to Adam and not to Iblis ? Or something else other than the two ?
Because Iblis was one of the malaika... and the malaika had just questioned The Creator why He would place any corruptors while they sing His Glory and Praise Him.
The jinn were created from before, I strongly suspect they were the ones on earth transgressing.
Some call them reptilians
Scientists call them dinosaursWe should know better they are still here not extinct
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Jinns/Reptilians/Dinosaurs is still here ?
And on what is your claim based on?
Do you know that you have a Reptilian Brain core, just like every human being on Earth. And this brain core is responsible for things like wanting to eat, fornicate, and other lusts. Which God teaches us to not get attached to.
https//k12.thoughtfullearning.com/sites/k12/files/blogPost/images/brain_image.jpg
Dont you see that our bodies are our enemies ? The serpent is inside of our brains ?
http//mikelev.in/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/lizard-brain-300x285.gif
The Garden of Eden might be just an allegory to the constant fight between our higher self and serpent/reptilian core brain, which drives/deceives us to eat those "forbidden fruits".
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Thumbs up, hansolo. It is like you can replace my preaching so I can take a breather.
If taking a look at the word Shaytan in etymology it is possible to reach your logical deduction.
So the "children of Israel" are always mindful of that affliction upon them which is not a gift but an immense trial. It was made to corrupt and to be a contradiction. Furthermore even the word "children of Israel" is a code name very few of the sons/daughters of man know about.
Be well
Amenuel