Quran and Pedophilia
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Can you explain what is bad thing about that?
As long as both of them feel fine, it's just fine. The old man get advantage of the youth of his wife, and the young girl get advantage of the wise, patient, and maybe the prosperity of her husband. What's the problem?
If let's say the old man is died 5 years later when she is still 25, then if God willing she can marry other man. What's the problem?
If let's say after married for a few years the old man health is decreased badly then his wife can't "be satisfied" by him anymore, she has option to propose divorce (with all its legal consequences). What's the problem?
Please broaden your perspective about life instead of being so judgemental by saying this bad and that bad based on popular opinions.
Salam peace
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Can you explain what is bad thing about that?
i was talking about choice , not about thing.. nope
and i also told its depend what somebody is looking... a bad choice for me from your perception may be a good choice for you... choice is just a choice ... some people choose to wear next brand... some choose to wear non branded traditional dress ...
same the people who give priorties in things like money status, targets , feelings they make choices in life/education /job of their nature..
and it has nothing to do with religion thats what i said handshake
just imagine a person get married with at the age of sixty ... most of the cases for a girl who is 20 will make her mind that she will listen these kinds of things... regardless of truth or false...
like .. society comments of old and young couple..
2 age gap can disturb her coz the young fantasies vs old most of the times not work in bed life !
which give her harm more than benefit and in 70 percent cases a rich old man wife have a secret affair ...
and lot more things... due to which sometimes people reaise they make a wrong choice..If let's say after married for a few years the old man health is decreased badly then his wife can't "be satisfied" by him anymore, she has option to propose divorce (with all its legal consequences). What's the problem?
yes my brother there is not a problem for her.. she already set her target and now she is free and successful .. she get what she wanted..
sometimes same go with girls who wanted to become actress
personal choices for sepending and choosing a style of life depends on your targets, rests of the things people usually sacrifice... depend on what are prefrences...infact about death anybody can get died any time depends on the time of individual life.. sometimes younger died in accidents ..
Please broaden your perspective about life instead of being so judgemental by saying this bad and that bad based on popular opinions.
i never based anything on opinions as i know there are more than seven billion living opinions are present with us... but what can we say without opinion people are useless pets.. without choices there is no purpose of life...
willingly or unwillingly everybody make choices for his/her life ... in every field of life including personal life career and stuff... so choices are never bad or good ... but literallly what we mean from bad and good usually based on the results in the end ... sometimes a chaser of career feel so alone in the sceane..
sometimes a chaser of money maker feel himself alone in the late 60z when he realise he wasted his whole life for collecting something what does not actually bellong to him... becoz everybody know death is knocking at our door everysingle second so some people realise hoarding has distracted them untill they see graveyards.. chap 102
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Does not matter what Quran says (at least not in an erroneous sectarian interpretation). Pedophilia is not logically consistent. Mating is for reproduction evolutionary and you do not make a child pregnant which is not ready for the role of a mother.
One wishes to mate due to the instinct of reproduction and the attraction involved in the behavior, but one's spirit takes advantage of the pleasure feeling without the responsibility of an offspring. If the human was only an animal it would function as intended with the drive to mate.
A young teenager might be physically mature enough for such intercourse, but what is the point in it when they do not fully understand its meaning beyond pleasure and instinctive love?
Our point is not to be an animal. Of course one can choose that path, but it is not leading to spiritual growth but sinking into being it, literally and diminishing the true you.
Be well
Amenuel -
The law principle is everything allowed unless stated otherwise. So many things we allowed to do in life (do gym, making apps, go by plane, playing football, etc) not because Quran allow them, but because Quran didn't forbid them.
Not according to Allah. He has given us the brain so we may utilize it for the benefit of all. He has told us to reason and not to be deaf, and dumb which pretty much are the ingredients for growing sheeples. He hates the latter (822) and there is a heavy price to pay for it (10100). Like you have said, Quran doesn?t have instruction for everything in life, but it does tell us to use the brain. You will gradually pick it up from Quran.
Therefore, young girls can only be married by her parents. So it depends on the parents whether they will let their girl marry in young age or not.
Happens in humans? world. But Allah has forbidden parents from being the main voice. They can only ?permit?. No forcing is allowed. Also we find no child marriage in Quran. Instead, Allah links marriageable age to maturity (ability to make judgment). We must also take into account fataytikumu found in verse 425. This is supposed to be young girls (fully grown girls) and not slave girls. That verse also tells us the qualities of the females associated with judgment. Note that a child does not have the ability understand the pleasure of having ?secret lovers? and doing immoral things. Allah rocks!
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But, on being neutral without human bias, from a perspective of animals (which the human body is) there is no such thing as pedophilia. The strongest and influential male mates with the female irrelevant of her age as long as she has started to be fertile. The Homo Sapiens may have a more complicated Mating sequence as an animal, but disregarding the higher mental capability it follows its closest cousin, the primate in the animal world.
Our species with no limitations and no spiritual depth would be polygamous and the more dominant the male the more females it would hold with its strength and the age of the female would not matter. When she is fertile she is a prospective mate.
Those who cannot control themselves in this world show you the signs.
And for someone who does not control themselves a very young female that turned fertile is likely animalistically the most attractive "prey" for a male. This is something Pedophilia shows. There are more pedophiles than you may think, even people are it but suppress their thoughts. From a bodily perspective it is natural. I am sure many men would confess a very young woman (nearly a child) is most attractive.
When it comes to those who turn on non-fertile children this would seem more like a disturbed mind, like abuse in the childhood.
But attraction at the onset of puberty would appear natural, whenever that occurs (earlier in girls and later in boys).
Therefore it is not strange people have Pedophilia in their minds. It is natural to the body. But since we have an excelled spirit we can act more logically and it is not wise to make a female of 9-15 pregnant when she has no good perspective of the world and has no control over her emotions and hormones. I would argue she should be over 20 of age, not even 18 which is the age of legal marriage in many countries.
And only the spiritually dim would seek sexual intercourse for pleasure with the youngster too. Such vain intercourse only for pleasure.
Be well
Amenuel -
as general preferable age between boys and girls should between 35(boys) 25(girls) on average basis or in this period of age gap i mean a healthy strong relation of a girl age 25 to a boy range 25-35 is something normal we can say...
same like education, earning, career, job/business we also have a personal life test throughout the life is family test so we should start preparing at this age ... but on other hand marriage is also necessary for understanding the real purpose of life to see what birth gives a meaning to the purpose of understanding human love regarding the nature... what we can say more..
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I wonder how many of those expressing here views on sexual life of animals have been animals vefore so that they can explain themselves with such self assurance as to how and what annimals do feel. They must have spent many years being animals.
Salaam
There is something called observe behavior, huruf. You do not have to live their life. An animal is completely driven by instinct and does not add its own opinion because it has none.
So if a female animal is fertile and ready for mating, a male animal will seek to mate with it as in the animal world when an animal is fertile then it means she is supposed to become pregnant. That can explain why human males are likely interested in very young females even if most keep their fingers away from who is considered a child by human standards.
We consider someone below 18 a minor, but by nature it is in puberty. If it was without our elevated spirit a species like ours the male would court the female at fertility age which we consider Pedophilia by our standards.
The question is for how long the parents would fight off anyone who seeks to come close to their daughter. The human primate body is also a social being much like other apes.
Considered mankind's earlier history in evolution couples were formed at an early age and a dominant and resourceful man gets the daughter irrelevant of his age. That is very instinctive, but it is how it worked. The one who can provide best and is the most resourceful male interested in their daughter gets her. And the daughter was given away at a much younger age, 13-15 on average.
The son had to first build up his own life, property and social skills in order to become attractive enough to get a healthy female. The males likely reached a 25 before they married taking the life span was lower and their bodies aged faster. It was phenomenal to reach even 60 of age.
In our age it works a little the same although a bit more evolved. The male is still supposed to impress on the female with social skill and often what he got in possession too for the particularly worldly females (more females than one may think). He got to show he can support her and keep her safe to carry their baby. She does not think this way but subconsciously her body makes the decisions for her.
Be well
Amenuel -
as general preferable age between boys and girls should between 35(boys) 25(girls) on average basis or in this period of age gap i mean a healthy strong relation of a girl age 25 to a boy range 25-35 is something normal we can say...
same like education, earning, career, job/business we also have a personal life test throughout the life is family test so we should start preparing at this age ... but on other hand marriage is also necessary for understanding the real purpose of life to see what birth gives a meaning to the purpose of understanding human love regarding the nature... what we can say more..
Most females prefer a male older than themselves. You have statistics to support that. It is a remnant of the instinct.
She seeks a stable household to be kept safe from poverty and insecurity, and instinctively she senses that in an older male.
Usually it is from 2 years up to a common maximum of 7 years older she wants the male to be. Dating sites can reveal it (no I do not have a habit of being on them but I have been curious of human behavior). And this was not very young women but those who were in their 20's. Their maximum set age of the other was often even my age, but seldom below their age and then only 1-2 years. The statistics show the female usually looks intentionally for an older mate, but can stretch down to a male of her own age
Be well
Amenuel -
yes u can say that..
peace -
But, on being neutral without human bias, from a perspective of animals (which the human body is) there is no such thing as pedophilia.
The saddest thing is that it is true in the animal kingdom. We have been dealing with this constant headache for a while now.
So if a female animal is fertile and ready for mating, a male animal will seek to mate with it as in the animal world
It seems that the male animals can even rape the females even if they are just children.
We consider someone below 18 a minor, but by nature it is in puberty. If it was without our elevated spirit a species like ours the male would court the female at fertility age which we consider Pedophilia by our standards.
I think they should raise the age. I feel even at 21, we are not very mature.
The question is for how long the parents would fight off anyone who seeks to come close to their daughter. The human primate body is also a social being much like other apes.
In some societies, it is possible. You will find them in Asia.
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It seems that the male animals can even rape the females even if they are just children.
Like I wrote, animals act upon instincts and have no abstract (free-thinking) intelligence and know not of consequences. If the male is having higher than normal hormone levels it will likely act out on first best female. Scary or not, animals are just doing what they are programmed to do. If nurture is in the "program" they will because they are set to do it and they will do it without any questions (they cannot reflect upon if it is "boring" or not because their thinking cannot extend that far). They can also be tricked into thinking they nurture their own due to forming a pack together with humans. It does not make them human but one only exploits their innate instinct.
I do not intend to declare animals worthless and there is limited slightly more advanced intelligence in certain species of animals, but they are still slaves to their instincts and will fulfill their evolution cycle which means to bring their offspring to live on. Sadly, in very worldly people, which is a huge amount of people in the world, you can see they are not much better than animals and will live their lives doing it just like animals but on another level of course. I mean the principle is the same. Be born, taught how society works, support their family, hoard resources and eventually die. Animals basically live the same lives. More in detail, humans seek activities in life following their instinctive impulses, they compete because that is in their instinct and seek to triumph and be more respected than others. It works exactly the same as in many species of animals.
Might be what happens in human males with a disturbed mind who are dim-witted.
I think they should raise the age. I feel even at 21, we are not very mature.
We become mature slower today because we allow children to be children longer. Children are allowed to play longer. In the past children would be thrown early into adult life and therefore forced to become mature.
I might be starting to become a grumpy old man, but I actually agree children should not play meaningless games for too long and concentrate on studies instead. Children learn motor skill etc to a certain extent, but eventually it becomes just entertainment. Also children's games should be focused on something like edutainment. Children's games need to be supervised. It is not constructive for children on free time to run around with wooden sticks imitating those are rifles and then imagine they shoot each other with them. Children need far more supervision than what we give them today. If children were stimulated they could be university graduates at the age of 18, their minds are so sharp still. A teenager turning 20 could be newly examined doctor on trial. They are childish because we do not control them sufficiently, childishness is "normalized". No one needs to be child for long per se. So much of our lives is wasted because we are not efficient.
But I guess I am a bit utopian, because humans are not that efficient and logical because the instinct has to always be involved.
And perhaps adults need to stop themselves to romanticize violence.
Be well
Amenuel -
Salam,
Allow me to expound my understanding although many of the ideas have been expounded by many of you already.
Human behaviour and animal behaviour shoud not and can not be compared. Just observing the animal kingdom, nothing else, you will surely find out the difference and the fact that, as social animals ergo animals who live in highly complex communities, our instincs are also social. Anything able to potentially put in risk the community is punishable and many times even considered loathsome. From the first appearance of homo sapiens in this world every community has stated its own standards for the well being of it and its protection, even if those standards were consider wrong by minorities within the specific community or by other foreign communities.
Animals who live in communities set priorities as we do, and one of them is the protection of the offspring while they are young, just as we do. Usually within animals it is puberty which will show the moment when the individual is ready to leave the community and start a new one or to start its own family in the community. I am from now on refering to mammels as the level of care and protection to the youngest shown by mammels is not found in any other animal species.
All along infancy the youngest will be taught and will learn what is necessary to meet the puberty period perfectly ready to stablish its own new community or family nucleus. An insufficient learning or lack of skills will lead to alienation of the individual and even his death.Regarding human behaviour, age for marriage is a standard stated by every community and it is different now from what is was in older times, and it is very different from community to community because our learning/ skill acquisition period has changed through the years, getting longer and more complex just as our comminities grew in complexity. As our communities get more and more complex, the age for marriage will be higher in order the youngest to get ready for the obligations, responsabilities and even rights of adulthood, otherwise we are condemning our youngest to social alineation or even social death sending them with no skills to assume a role they are not ready to implement.
Regarding corporal development... I think we should never take it into account. Not at all. Human being is very different from animals in many biological senses. For example, he is definitely a useless puppy when born. All animals are ready to run or at least to ?try? to run just few minutes after they are born while human being needs weeks even to turn his head for the first time. Not even cranial bones have concluded its joining when human being is born and for the first year of his life human being is just condemned to death if left alone. We need the community from the moment we are born and we subdue to it and it determines inevitably our self development and vision of the world.
Now, please, note that Quran is always refering to the age of MARRIAGE and not the age of procreation or/and intercourse , and God knows very well what He sends down. The age for procreation is given by nature, not by community, but the age of marriage is something very different and it is a social issue, different in every community and in every period of human social history, as I said before, determined by the complexity of our societies.
Has Quran defined that marriage is exclusively a ?permission for sex? or a contract for sexual intercourse between 2 parts? Of course not. Does it say ?the girl menstruated, get married the next day?? No. It is much more and implies many other obligations and rights where at least a basic maturity is needed.
421 And how can you take it when you have become intimate with each other, and they have taken from you a solemn covenant.
Now, please, tell me if a child who has just menstruated can take a solemn covenant?
When that basic maturity I was talking about is reached? I personally read about it in the following superb verses about human personal development
4615
And We enjoined the human being to do good to his parents. His mother bore him with hardship, gave birth to him in hardship, and his bearing and weaning lasts thirty months. So that, when he has reached his independence, and he has reached forty years, he says "My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do good work that pleases You. And let my progeny be righteous. I have repented to You; I am of those who have submitted.Quran itself refers to a huge period and talks about ?independence? and not sexual maturity, because God knows that age of ?independence? will change through the centuries and among communities.
So, taking into account that MARRIAGE is not only sex and procreation and that it implies many other obligations, responsabilities and rights, no child could ever be considered in age for marriage according to Quran.
So, now, I don't get why we are refering here chapter 65 and specifically 654! This is talking about divorce!!!!!!!! whoever reads that ?those who did not menstruate? is related to children who have never menstruated before is just stating
- That marriage is only a contract and mental and physical maturity is not included. Something against quranic teachings.
- That a girl child has the maturity (understood as I explained before) to get married when she has not even menstruated yet, and not only that, therefore she has the maturity even to divorce!
Both 1 and 2 are not quranic at all nope
The age difference between the spouse is just a question of taste, and God has not stated anything about it because any sincere, real and honest relationship is welcome to God's eyes, I suppose, He is the Merciful, the Wise.
May God enlighten us better and by His wise willing to have a greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat new year!!! Happy new year to everybody!! group
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I would say they are quite similar, humans and animals. The human is just a slightly more advanced primate with its instincts and the main difference is the highly potential spirit attached to it.
Of course there are behavioral differences between species, even within the family of primates. Each has variations in instinctive behavior and also Homo sapiens is a subspecies.
Instincts can make one know by nature what to do, but one becomes also limited to this world.
You mentioned that the human can be vastly different from other animals, but this is because it is engineered specifically for the purpose here and brings challenge. Every animal is basically engineered. And Homo sapiens is an animal on its own, it is the elevated special spirit making it stand out and function the way it does.
But you said ALL animals can run at birth, but there are fairly helpless babies in the animal world too. Many baby birds that cannot do much and are born initially blind, like humans. And a human baby will look for the breast instinctively when near its mother despite barely seeing anything and the sucking is instinctive. The suck reflex will eventually just vanish. The human baby is just as capable as some animal babies in the animal world. It is different between species.
It is true the human child is a child during a longer period but this is species-related thing. Humans also have among the longest total life spans (not saying the longest). However, some primate species resemble Homo sapiens and its growth speed of children. An infant gorilla can walk at the age of 6 months and they reach 50 years of age. I am sure if they lived like humans with same hygiene and nutrients they would perhaps increase it too. And a gorilla is not fully adult until the age of ten. By adult there I suppose it means it is fertile and passed puberty.
Be well
Amenuel -
I would say they are quite similar, humans and animals. The human is just a slightly more advanced primate with its instincts and the main difference is the highly potential spirit attached to it.
Of course there are behavioral differences between species, even within the family of primates. Each has variations in instinctive behavior and also Homo sapiens is a subspecies.
Similar does not mean same.
Instincts can make one know by nature what to do, but one becomes also limited to this world.
I will never agree with this holistic rejection of instincs. Instincs are there for a reason and it is God who created us with instincs and mind. thinking is also a human instinc, morality is also a human instinc, and faith is a human instinc too.
But you said ALL animals can run at birth, but there are fairly helpless babies in the animal world too. Many baby birds that cannot do much and are born initially blind, like humans. And a human baby will look for the breast instinctively when near its mother despite barely seeing anything and the sucking is instinctive. The suck reflex will eventually just vanish. The human baby is just as capable as some animal babies in the animal world. It is different between species.
No I did not mean ALL animals and that is why I wrote a "try" after that thinking it would cover the non writen "almost" all animals... Also "as uncapable" as human being there is no other. Only his brain and the community will keep him alive even in adulthood.
It is true the human child is a child during a longer period but this is species-related thing. Humans also have among the longest total life spans (not saying the longest). However, some primate species resemble Homo sapiens and its growth speed of children. An infant gorilla can walk at the age of 6 months and they reach 50 years of age. I am sure if they lived like humans with same hygiene and nutrients they would perhaps increase it too. And a gorilla is not fully adult until the age of ten. By adult there I suppose it means it is fertile and passed puberty.
Gorillas are very similar to us but they are not us. First of all gorillas are not bipedal and the age they can almost try to escape a predator is very sooner than 6 months. Their mothers would carry them for almost 2 years although they can walk themselves much earlier. Also they seem to reach adulthood even earlier than sexual maturity. Anyway this is not a discussion about gorillas and the topic is closed and I think despite of the possible misundertandings and lack of some words, I made my point soooooooooo happy new yeaaaar
God bless you all
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I'm really bored...thinking about clearing some words.
If a 60 year old marries a 20 year old, that's not pedophilia.
Pedo (child) philia (love). The 20 year old is a young adult.
When does one leave childhood? Puberty.
What is it called when a +50 yo marries someone who has hit puberty (10-11 yo)? I don't know, but to me this is immoral. Anyone else know?
There must be a good definition in Quran, but overlooked when someone can marry a young woman.Remember these are all man-made definitions. So Quran has answer but maybe too overlooked. The key is in checking the lactation and the verses regarding mothers breastfeeding two years or having nursing mothers. When can a woman lactate? Is that the age when women can get married?
WE NEED A DOCTOR! At what age can young women lactate after pregnancy (theoritcal of course)???? brickwall brickwall
Or perhaps we should look into menarche and what follows instead?
brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall
Salam
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WE NEED A DOCTOR! At what age can women lactate after pregnancy???? brickwall brickwall
Salam
Yes, please, ask one because ...
Actually a woman can lactate even before the delivery time while she is still pregnant so the right age is just few weeks before the delivery of her first child rotfllet's ask a veterinatian and a biologist too to see when it happens in other species confused
(Yes of course i am joking)
Salam to you too peace
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Yes, please, ask one because ...
Actually a woman can lactate even before the delivery time while she is still pregnant so the right age is just few weeks before the delivery of her first child rotfllet's ask a veterinatian and a biologist too to see when it happens in other species confused
(Yes of course i am joking)
Salam to you too peace
You misunderstood me...If a perverted man marries a young girl, she has hit puberty, and she becomes pregnant, after delivery...can she lactate?
