Quran and Pedophilia
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Yes, please, ask one because ...
Actually some woman can lactate even before the delivery time while she is still pregnant so the right age is just few weeks before the delivery of her first child rotfllet's ask a veterinatian and a biologist too to see when it happens in other species confused
(Yes of course i am joking)
Salam to you too peace
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Sorry, i did not understand you at all then...
laugh Changed it, maybe it's more understandable now
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I will never agree with this holistic rejection of instincs. Instincs are there for a reason and it is God who created us with instincs and mind. thinking is also a human instinc, morality is also a human instinc, and faith is a human instinc too.
Fair enough.
Instincts = Satan.
The Spirit is separate from the flesh/body, so with your impossible stance ("never agree" you will not prosper.
Faith is not an instinct, it is a logical deduction that reinforces one's character. Faith connoted with worship, especially a material deity is instinct. All instincts should be avoided because that is the best translation of Satan as a word.
Thinking (free-minded) is not an instinct, it is a functionality not possible in animals and is bound to the superior spirit. Animals cannot think because they have no spirit of depth while humans have it. The result of thinking may be brought by the instinct on the other hand.
Did you learn nothing from me?
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Regarding this issue we first need to make a distinct standpoint whether we want to talk about Quranic norm, or about other social norms.
Quran clearly doesn't state any prohibition concerning age of marriage. So we can't say such man-made term "pedophilia" is forbidden based on Quran per se. Finish. Full stop.
However, just because Quran doesn't forbid something it doesn't mean we can't generate any regulation about that. Remember that Quran only rules some particular norms and doesn't intended to rule all of human affairs in full details. Thus, people need to use their mind to making rules about what they think need to be ruled as long as don't contend with Quran.
You may eat halal foods, but you will be arrested by police if you eat them by sitting down on the middle of main street at busy hours with all your family. The reason is disturbing public order. Same apply to our topic. I think none of wise government will allow marriage in too low age. Sex activity even can cause fatality on little girl. In fact it is common for countries to rule age of marriage. In Indonesia a man need to reach age 19 and woman need to reach age 16 (which still considered as "immature" if we use 18 as maturity age) to marry. In my opinion, regulation regarding age of marriage should be as low as tolerable because its about determining "minimum age", not "ideal age".
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Of course there is no place for pedophilia in Qur'an.
The Qur'an orders everybody to not marry women without acknowledging their faculty of consent. To have the faculty of consent you have to be of certain age, so that indeed you know what you are contracting. It is a must.
Salaam
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Regarding this issue we first need to make a distinct standpoint whether we want to talk about Quranic norm, or about other social norms.
Quran clearly doesn't state any prohibition concerning age of marriage. So we can't say such man-made term "pedophilia" is forbidden based on Quran per se. Finish. Full stop.
No it's not finish, full stop. If you think God allows such sick and filthy practices then you are reading a different quran than the one I have.
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Thinking (free-minded) is not an instinct, it is a functionality not possible in animals and is bound to the superior spirit. Animals cannot think because they have no spirit of depth while humans have it. The result of thinking may be brought by the instinct on the other hand.
I dont think so. 2441 states clearly that there is faith and prayer in the whole creation, every single species or material is doing its own prayer and role in this duny'a. And we are obliged to respect and take care of His creation, of which we are just a part. When we forget that we become the destructive plague we are
Did you learn nothing from me?
Was I a student and i did not know? confused
Are you always right, really?
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Lactation is just a next step after pregnancy so every healthy woman who has given birth can lactate
I know D, though thats not what I meant.
Salam
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I dont think so. 2441 states clearly that there is faith and prayer in the whole creation, every single species or material is doing its own prayer and role in this duny'a.
Interpretation by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed
2441 Do you not realize that God, He is the One Whom all beings in the heavens and earth glorify, and the birds, with their wings outspread, as they fly in columns. All of them know their Salaat and Tasbeeh (mission and strife). God is Aware of what they do to fulfill His Plan.16
Note 16
All creatures know their Salaat, their inborn Divinely programmed instincts. So, they can automatically strive do their Tasbeeh in the best way. But humans are not programmed with such inborn instincts. Given free will, they must do their Salaat by following the revealed guidance and thus strive do Tasbeeh in the best wayTo my humble understanding this verse gives us the meaning of salat and tasbeeh. It starts with "Do you not realize..." Can anyone realize how the birds and other creations do salat and tasbeeh if these terms are understood as contact prayer and glorification? I dont know if any creation other than "Muslims" have a hadith corpus to find out details of contact prayer and glorification. What Dr.Shabbir Ahmed has interpreted makes a better sense of the term salat and tasbeeh (mission and strife) in this verse. And of course it is my view and everyone has the right to have their own view.
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Of course there is no place for pedophilia in Qur'an.
The Qur'an orders everybody to not marry women without acknowledging their faculty of consent. To have the faculty of consent you have to be of certain age, so that indeed you know what you are contracting. It is a must.
Salaam
As I stated before, for girl who doesn't yet reach maturity age can be married by her guardian that in most cases is her father.
What I bold at verse below is guardian of the woman. Relevance of guardian in this case of course because the woman hasn't reach age of maturity (or in some cases because she has weak understanding).
And if you divorce them before you have touched them, and you have already appointed for them a marriage-portion, then one-half of what you have appointed, unless it be they make remission, or he makes remission in whose hand is the knot of marriage; yet that you should remit is nearer to godfearing. Forget not to be bountiful one towards another. Surely God sees the things you do. Q 2237
You can also read in the Quran a story when Musa's father in law married his daughter to Musa. From the narration of the story we know that the bond is just made between them two.
He said, 'I desire to marry thee to one of these my two daughters, on condition that thou hirest thyself to me for eight years. If thou completest ten, that shall be of thy own accord; I do not desire to' press hard 'upon thee. Thou shalt assuredly find me, if God wills, one of the righteous.' Q 2827
In conclusion, maturity is not an absolute condition for girl to marry. Therefore, there is no prohibition to marry immature girl according to the Quran per se.
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As I stated before, for girl who doesn't yet reach maturity age can be married by her guardian that in most cases is her father.
Hideous, like those one hears about who sell/prostitute their children for a television and attribute it to the book; they should be flogged along with the imbeciles who teach them then forced to pick garbage.
You can also read in the Quran a story when Musa's father in law married his daughter to Musa. From the narration of the story we know that the bond is just made between them two.
They were women of marriageable age not underage girls. Agreement was to sponsor work since a drifter cannot support anyone and obviously daughter/s "approved" of him...
2823... and found from besides them im'ra-atayni/women two...
2826 said (f) one them dual O father that hire him surely best whom that hire thou the strong the trustworthy
2827 said surely I want that sponsor marriage you one daughters dual mine these two on that thou work for me eight ijajin so if complete thou ten of so from near (i.e. up to) you and not I want that make difficult upon you thou will find me if wills the god from the righteousIn conclusion, maturity is not an absolute condition for girl to marry. Therefore, there is no prohibition to marry immature girl according to the Quran per se.
46 and test ye of the bereaved until when attained they of the marriage so if perceive you from them right way of/rational so deliver ye of to them wealth theirs and not thou eat/consume ye it wastefully and hastily of lest/that grow up they of and who be ample of so should refrain and who be poor of so let eat/consume in the fair manner so when deliver you to them wealth theirs so witnesses ye of upon them and sufficient in/by the god reckoner of
621 and whom more unjust than whom has fabricated about the god lie of or deny in signs his surely he not succeeds the wrongdoing
Peace
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Interpretation by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed
To my humble understanding this verse gives us the meaning of salat and tasbeeh. It starts with "Do you not realize..." Can anyone realize how the birds and other creations do salat and tasbeeh if these terms are understood as contact prayer and glorification? I dont know if any creation other than "Muslims" have a hadith corpus to find out details of contact prayer and glorification. What Dr.Shabbir Ahmed has interpreted makes a better sense of the term salat and tasbeeh (mission and strife) in this verse. And of course it is my view and everyone has the right to have their own view.Than you so much for the instructive note. I share this view of salat as mission / contribution to the creation's balance, but mostly I agree with your last point peace
In conclusion, maturity is not an absolute condition for girl to marry. Therefore, there is no prohibition to marry immature girl according to the Quran per se.
Here we go again with the same....
According to you the woman's / girl's agreement is not needed either.... We have superior men's who will look after our lives and destinies. And if you are a little girls, what can I say? You can perfectly know by then if you want someone for marriage or not...
So lucky you are, men/boys, you have a Quran full of rights only for yourselves giveup
I know D, though thats not what I meant.
Salam
Sorry rotfl First I thought you were jocking and you said i misunderstood and then I tought oh maybe he actually does not know and i misunderstood again brickwall Not your fault, i am not in my best moment brickwall
peace
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As I stated before, for girl who doesn't yet reach maturity age can be married by her guardian that in most cases is her father.
What I bold at verse below is guardian of the woman. Relevance of guardian in this case of course because the woman hasn't reach age of maturity (or in some cases because she has weak understanding).
In conclusion, maturity is not an absolute condition for girl to marry. Therefore, there is no prohibition to marry immature girl according to the Quran per se.
Whaaaaaaaaaaat
There is not an ?age for marriage? in Quran?
Maybe Quran wants you to use COMMON SENSE. brickwall
The following are from QURAN
2458 O you who believe, let those among you who are committed to by your oath, and those who have not attained puberty (hulum), request your permission regarding three times before the dawn contact prayer, and when you put off your garments from the noon time, and after the evening contact prayer. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
2459 And when your children reach puberty (hulum), then let them seek your permission like it was sought by those before them. God thus clarifies His revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.If there is an age for asking permission in these cases, why there is not an age for marriage? Is marriage less serious?
There is also an age for maturity and finantial independence of the indivual, and it is not even equal to puberty as you have to "determine their comprehension". Puberty is not the only requirement
46 And test the orphans when they reach puberty, then, if you have determined from them comprehension, then give them their money, and do not deliberately consume it wastefully or quickly before they grow up.
But there is not for marriage?
But actually Wakas wrote it better with great quotes and Quran references in the following
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htm
But the most important
6140 Losers are those who have killed their children foolishly, without knowledge, and they forbade what God had granted them by lying about God. They have strayed and they were not guided.
And marrying a child you are killing a child's soul.
peace
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And if you divorce them before you have touched them, and you have already appointed for them a marriage-portion, then one-half of what you have appointed, unless it be they make remission, or he makes remission in whose hand is the knot of marriage; yet that you should remit is nearer to godfearing. Forget not to be bountiful one towards another. Surely God sees the things you do. Q 2237
own accord; I do not desire to' press hard 'upon thee. Thou shalt assuredly find me, if God wills, one of the righteous.' Q 2827No guardian of any woman, woman not child, can arrange a marriage without her consent. No man can marry a woman without her consent. It is upon him to make sure that she consents. And in the aya you quoted where does it say that it is her guardian? It does no say that. He may merely be an attorney or some other commissionned. And even if he is a guardan he cannot contrat a marriage for the woman without her consent.
Muhsana is a woman who has de legal capacity of consent. And the Qur'an tells clearly that men should marry anybody acknowledging and abiding by the capacity of cosent of the woman. No man can legally marry any woman according to the Qur'an except by her legal consent and to be able to give legal consent you do have to actully have such capacity.
The Qur'an is nto a free for all to catch whatever you can get away with.Salaam
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peace quranflea,
Note your baseless claims/assumptions (bold and red)
As I stated before, for girl who doesn't yet reach maturity age can be married by her guardian that in most cases is her father.
What I bold at verse below is guardian of the woman. Relevance of guardian in this case of course because the woman hasn't reach age of maturity (or in some cases because she has weak understanding).
And if you divorce them before you have touched them, and you have already appointed for them a marriage-portion, then one-half of what you have appointed, unless it be they make remission, or he makes remission in whose hand is the knot of marriage; yet that you should remit is nearer to godfearing. Forget not to be bountiful one towards another. Surely God sees the things you do. Q 2237
You can also read in the Quran a story when Musa's father in law married his daughter to Musa. From the narration of the story we know that the bond is just made between them two.
He said, 'I desire to marry thee to one of these my two daughters, on condition that thou hirest thyself to me for eight years. If thou completest ten, that shall be of thy own accord; I do not desire to' press hard 'upon thee. Thou shalt assuredly find me, if God wills, one of the righteous.' Q 2827
See what Nun pointed out also.
Compare your above interpretation to the irrefutable evidenced conclusion of
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htmThe only good thing about your post is it perfectly demonstrates the baseless claims/assumptions (and at best, indirect reasoning) one has to make in order to justify such a view.
Me? I prefer solid reasoning/evidence.
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As I stated before, for girl who doesn't yet reach maturity age can be married by her guardian that in most cases is her father.
What I bold at verse below is guardian of the woman. Relevance of guardian in this case of course because the woman hasn't reach age of maturity (or in some cases because she has weak understanding).
And if you divorce them before you have touched them, and you have already appointed for them a marriage-portion, then one-half of what you have appointed, unless it be they make remission, or he makes remission in whose hand is the knot of marriage; yet that you should remit is nearer to godfearing. Forget not to be bountiful one towards another. Surely God sees the things you do. Q 2237
You can also read in the Quran a story when Musa's father in law married his daughter to Musa. From the narration of the story we know that the bond is just made between them two.
He said, 'I desire to marry thee to one of these my two daughters, on condition that thou hirest thyself to me for eight years. If thou completest ten, that shall be of thy own accord; I do not desire to' press hard 'upon thee. Thou shalt assuredly find me, if God wills, one of the righteous.' Q 2827
In conclusion, maturity is not an absolute condition for girl to marry. Therefore, there is no prohibition to marry immature girl according to the Quran per se.
I have a genuine question. I hope you don't mind. Are you here to troll Quran followers? It seems you joined this place somewhere around 2013, but you are not studying the Book. I certainly haven't seen any Quran followers who live by it skipping contemplation to stick to the sectarians' interpreted verses.
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They were women of marriageable age not underage girls
I don't think that word "mar'at" itself indicating that the female is in marriageable age or not. Anyway, my point by quoted verse 2827 and also 2237 was to show that there are two possible person who will act as party of marriage contract on female side, i.e. the woman itself, or her guardian (wali).
46 and test ye of the bereaved until when attained they of the marriage so if perceive you from them right way of/rational so deliver ye of to them wealth theirs and not thou eat/consume ye it wastefully and hastily of lest/that grow up they of and who be ample of so should refrain and who be poor of so let eat/consume in the fair manner so when deliver you to them wealth theirs so witnesses ye of upon them and sufficient in/by the god reckoner of
46 indicates that Quran recognize marriageable age which merely a social concept. God didn't create it, He only show us that He know there is such concept in society. As I stated before, determining the minimum age of marry is just common in most societies/countries. Our common sense agree that marriage is not for too low age person, thus its requirement need to be regulated.
However, if let's say a society believes that the lowest age for a girl to marry is 13, then when a man marries a 12 y/o girl through her father, he and the girl father are broke social consensus (or maybe state law), but we can't say that they broke Quran 46. It's just unrelated. God didn't state that one who under certain age is forbidden from marriage in that verse, even the "marriageable age" itself is not His creation, it's just a social concept!
621 and whom more unjust than whom has fabricated about the god lie of or deny in signs his surely he not succeeds the wrongdoing
If you impose saying that God prohibit girl under certain age for marry, which in fact there is no verse that solidly supports such opinion, therefore the verse above is for you.
According to you the woman's / girl's agreement is not needed either.... We have superior men's who will look after our lives and destinies. And if you are a little girls, what can I say? You can perfectly know by then if you want someone for marriage or not...
So lucky you are, men/boys, you have a Quran full of rights only for yourselves giveup
Woman consent is needed when she act as party in the marriage contract. But when her father or her guardian (wali) who act as party in the marriage contract (because she hasn't reach her adulthood) then it is her father/guardian consent that is legally needed. That is just simple legal thought. Nevertheless, a wise father/guardian surely will figure out whether his daughter agree with his plan or not.
Actually it's not about gender, but about involving immature person in a contract. The same apply in case of a 19 y/o girl and 7 y/o girl making legal contract to be a movie star. The first one will signed the contract by herself, and for the second one it is her father/guardian who will signed the contract.
Whaaaaaaaaaaat o
There is not an ?age for marriage? in Quran?
Maybe Quran wants you to use COMMON SENSE. brickwall
The following are from QURAN
If there is an age for asking permission in these cases, why there is not an age for marriage? Is marriage less serious?
What maybe will make you jump out of your seat is there is no prohibition to smoke next to nuclear reactor in Quran! rotfl
It's so easy to pick example of some issues out there that is more serious than some of what is written in Quran. Please don't think like that anymore. God rules on His book whatever He want to rule, not whatever we might think important.
No guardian of any woman, woman not child, can arrange a marriage without her consent. No man can marry a woman without her consent. It is upon him to make sure that she consents. And in the aya you quoted where does it say that it is her guardian? It does no say that. He may merely be an attorney or some other commissionned. And even if he is a guardan he cannot contrat a marriage for the woman without her consent.
See my answer above.
