Marrying a Traditionalist Is As Same as Marrying a Polytheist

Bender

Sectarians are polytheists and hypocrites, i.e. they have set up partners with God.

6159
Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are
not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then
He will inform them of what they had done.

Then there's patience.

Salam

red This is to deep for me, can you explain what you mean.

reel

Quran says you can only marry a believer, someone who believes in God

?Those who believe and those who are Jewish, the Christians and the Sabians, the ones who believe in God and the Last Day and do good deeds; they will have their reward from their Lord and no fear will come upon them nor will they grieve.? 262

The message of Quran seems to be that believing in God is not same as believing he exists. It is more about having faith in him and seeking guidance from him. Those who don't have the Book can use their consciousness to decide what is right and wrong. We all humans are programmed to do this. We are capable of understanding the consequence of doing vandalism on earth and we need to stand up for what is right. Satan was actually a believer. He acknowledged the creator's existence. But he was called a disbeliever after he disobeyed. It is the same thing with us humans. It doesn't matter what religion we come from.

and whats about "mushriks"

like sunni and shia both are mushrik according to quran lens..

according to their own lens quran alone are disbleivers/kaffirs...

in this case there is not enough couples left , even in this forum u hardly find a quran alone couple..

God is not that illogical .. as far i think these verses are advising people to do marriage with somebody have similar thinking what u have.. for a successful relationship..

Yeah, I agree with that. I have seen plenty of clashes between sectarian husbands and wives mainly because of "hadiths". Having same religion doesn't lead to happiness. At the end of the day, what matters is the peace under the roof. That can be achieved only through compatibility.

es

Peace,

The message of Quran seems to be that believing in God is not same as believing he exists. It is more about having faith in him and seeking guidance from him. Those who don't have the Book can use their consciousness to decide what is right and wrong. We all humans are programmed to do this. We are capable of understanding the consequence of doing vandalism on earth and we need to stand up for what is right. Satan was actually a believer. He acknowledged the creator's existence. But he was called a disbeliever after he disobeyed. It is the same thing with us humans. It doesn't matter what religion we come from.

My thoughts mirror yours in this matter. It is one's actions by which one ought to be judged and not the specific labels they attach to themselves or the categories they insist on being placed in. I was having this conversation with my Mum as well some hours ago about how a person's actions define someone and not their label. I know many people and to me, they are Muslim. I would say all my friends are "Muslim" by my understanding because of the way they conduct themselves, although, they might not regard themselves as such. Alas, only Allah knows best what is in the hearts of His creation.

and whats about "mushriks"

like sunni and shia both are mushrik according to quran lens..

according to their own lens quran alone are disbleivers/kaffirs...

in this case there is not enough couples left , even in this forum u hardly find a quran alone couple..

God is not that illogical .. as far i think these verses are advising people to do marriage with somebody have similar thinking what u have.. for a successful relationship..

Again, my sentiments entirely. Allah knows best.

Peace.

Amra94

The message of Quran seems to be that believing in God is not same as believing he exists. It is more about having faith in him and seeking guidance from him. Those who don't have the Book can use their consciousness to decide what is right and wrong. We all humans are programmed to do this. We are capable of understanding the consequence of doing vandalism on earth and we need to stand up for what is right. Satan was actually a believer. He acknowledged the creator's existence. But he was called a disbeliever after he disobeyed. It is the same thing with us humans. It doesn't matter what religion we come from.

God tells us who the "believers" are

"Mu'mens (believers) are those who have faith in God and His messenger?" (4915)

"?and attain the status of having no doubt whatsoever?" (4915)

"?and Strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. These are the truthful ones." (4915)

"The true faithful are those whose hearts tremble when GOD is mentioned?" (82)

"?and when His revelations are recited to them, their faith is strengthened?" (82)

"?and they trust in their Lord." (82)

"They uphold the Worship (Salat)?" (83)

"?and from our provisions to them, they give to charity." (83)

"Such are TRULY THE BELIEVERS. They attain high ranks at their Lord, as well as forgiveness and a generous provision." (84)

I don't see how atheists can be considered "believers" we can marry if they reject God's revelations.. aand proudly say there is no god

imrankhawaja

I don't see how atheists can be considered "believers" we can marry if they reject God's revelations.. aand proudly say there is no god

people here are trying to tell you the difference between an individual heart and individual actions

ok let say for a second .. the verses all you qouted just put a righteous christian in it..
he beleives in God (according to his knowledge what he gain)
he is sincear with God
he give charity
he help people
he do ibada(serving)

and same goes with jew, buddist, sunni , and even athiest..

about the athiest thingie its bit tricky who is real "athiest"
athiest is the one who is kaffir and after knowing the truth he reject it due to arrogance(example is pharoah)

hypocrate athiest ( all isis people who claim to beleive in God and do against the God by blasting the body parts of innocent kids)
mushrik athiest ( who beleives in illegal money/material more than God system of honesty)

there are lot of flavours of real athiests/kafirs all around the world , how hard they try to say they are muslims, christian , beleivers but in reality they are invaders, rapist, robbers, trangressors, wicked..

now one of my friend is athiest
but he is kind
he did not do dishonesty with system
he help needy
he give charity

but he dnt beleive in God , i ask why becoz he said i did not see him , and there are different gods everywhere
muslims ,christians, buddist, hindus, jews all have different gods and demi gods i m confuse and right now i did not find a solution of God within my weak understanding of mind..

now tell me is it logical for God to punish such creature , according to his sincear mind he did not understand the nature of God so he is atleast honest with himself ...

i m sorry for explaining these terms but labels are not what God is after..
the system of God and follower of that system is peacemaker(muslim)
the action of somebody with honesty and sincearty is a real thing...

Amra94

but he dnt beleive in God , i ask why becoz he said i did not see him , and there are different gods everywhere
muslims ,christians, buddist, hindus, jews all have different gods and demi gods i m confuse and right now i did not find a solution of God within my weak understanding of mind..

now tell me is it logical for God to punish such creature , according to his sincear mind he did not understand the nature of God so he is atleast honest with himself ...

i m sorry for explaining these terms but labels are not what God is after..
the system of God and follower of that system is peacemaker(muslim)
the action of somebody with honesty and sincearty is a real thing...

God says He shows us His Signs so your friend can't use that excuse. Also
7172-173 And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.
Nor can you say "It was our fathers who set up partners before and we were simply a progeny who came after them. Would You destroy us for what the innovators did?"

Peacemakers are not the same as believers. Believers follow what was revealed to the Messenger.
"And if it is recited to them, they say ?We believe in it. It is the truth from our Lord. Indeed, we had Submitted before it.? (2853)
"To these we grant twice the reward, because they steadfastly persevere. They counter evil works with good works, and from our provisions to them, they give." (2854)

unknownuser

I understand what you are saying. I recently became a progressive/non-donomational/semi-quranist muslim because I feel like ALLAH guided me to that path. I haven't told my parents or anyone but it sucks because I know no one of my type around me. One of my biggest fears is marrying a salafi/traditionalist/extremist muslim &. I think I'd rather marry a person of the book than them. But unfortunately this misconception arose that muslim women can't do so. Hell their thinking is so absurd and have been so corrupted by "hadith" I think I would rather live my life with a girl than one of them rotfl rotfl rotfl

I hope Allah guides me to righteous people without this twisted version of islam. Muslims can be so scary sometimes tempt giveup

imrankhawaja

God says He shows us His Signs so your friend can't use that excuse. Also
7172-173 And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.

sister re read my post please what i try to tell you..
God will judge everybody by heart, as he already knows whats inside the chest...

if you are honest with that approach u dnt need to worry at all..

and about this verse , it appears to me this verse is something before offering us a trust/freewill

right now i dnt remember such type of contract/deal with God. its may b in my subconscious ..
so its silly to say him things without proof

Peacemakers are not the same as believers. Believers follow what was revealed to the Messenger.

so how do you know what revealed to messenger ?
whats about the christians who believed the bible is the revelation of God
whats about jews, hindus , all those people who sincearly devoted themselves to God believing their scripture is true ?

peacemaker=muslim.. whatever label he/she get from inheritence..

what is the fault of a kid who dnt born in traditional sunni family .. ?

it seems you also think same like sunni/shia who think they are the sole owner of heavens
only they are chosen people..
only they are on the right path...

i keep it short in more logical way...
God will judge every nation/individual by the ability of understanding he/she have...

imrankhawaja

I understand what you are saying. I recently became a progressive/non-donomational/semi-quranist muslim because I feel like ALLAH guided me to that path. I haven't told my parents or anyone but it sucks because I know no one of my type around me. One of my biggest fears is marrying a salafi/traditionalist/extremist muslim &. I think I'd rather marry a person of the book than them. But unfortunately this misconception arose that muslim women can't do so. Hell their thinking is so absurd and have been so corrupted by "hadith" I think I would rather live my life with a girl than one of them rotfl rotfl rotfl

I hope Allah guides me to righteous people without this twisted version of islam. Muslims can be so scary sometimes tempt giveup

brother getting married is something else , do with whoever you like/love
love is the only thing that change things according to the choice of other person.

make your relation based on emotions/feelings not on religion ..

Amra94

and about this verse , it appears to me this verse is something before offering us a trust/freewill

right now i dnt remember such type of contract/deal with God. its may b in my subconscious ..
so its silly to say him things without proof

so how do you know what revealed to messenger ?
whats about the christians who believed the bible is the revelation of God
whats about jews, hindus , all those people who sincearly devoted themselves to God believing their scripture is true ?

peacemaker=muslim.. whatever label he/she get from inheritence..

what is the fault of a kid who dnt born in traditional sunni family .. ?

it seems you also think same like sunni/shia who think they are the sole owner of heavens
only they are chosen people..
only they are on the right path...

i keep it short in more logical way...
God will judge every nation/individual by the ability of understanding he/she have...

That verse is saying it's in our nature to believe and worship God alone. Then it says you can't use the excuse that you just followed what your parents did. Not everyone remembers this for some reason..

All monotheists will go to heaven. You're saying anyone following a man made religion will only be judged on what kind of morals they had. Well every time God talks about heaven it's for those "who believe and do good works". It never says "those who commit shirk and do good works" or "those who deny the existence of God and do good works." 385 And whoever follows other than submission as a system, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.

Majority are astray. 6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

imrankhawaja

God will not ask you how many cars you buy
God will not ask you how many houses you own
God will not ask you which race/religion/label/nation you belong

he will ask you what you ve done
were you a troublemaker or peacemaker
were you honest or dishonest
were you truthful or lier
were you beleiver of a system or rejector of the system

Do not assign piety to yourselves or to other people. You will never know who is really pious. This knowledge is only with God (5332)

292 Did the people think that they will be left to say "We believe" without being put to the test?
293 We had tested those before them, so that God would distinguish those who are truthful and so that He would know the liars.

1693 Had God so willed, He could have made you all one single community. However, He lets go astray him that wills (to go astray) and guides him that wills (to be guided). And you will be called to account for all that you ever did.

ponder on these verses too..

believing in him mean believe in the system what he make for humanity.. the one who believes in system is indirectly believing in God too

the one who claim to be a believer but reject the system is indirectly rejecting God... example is so called suicide bomber who claim to be a muslim and blast the bodies out of innocent kids with the slogan
"allah hu akbar" do u think he directly go to heavens with 72 virgins hmm

look at this post for more insight
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609393.msg403421#msg403421

imrankhawaja

That verse is saying it's in our nature to believe and worship God alone. Then it says you can't use the excuse that you just followed what your parents did. Not everyone remembers this for some reason..

then why everybody have different gods and demi gods?
and why some of them dnt even have god like agnostic and athiest?

and this verse is addressed to all humanity from adam to the last one.. its meanings is something like natural/default state of creation..

like birds follow the system
angels follow the system
everything follow the system willingly or unwillingly..

we also once aware about the reality of our creator and our system when he offered us this choice what we accepted.. at that time , because we are ignorant /fools to accept that hard challange ..

now at present stage we did not remember it...

the verse is telling more , on the day of judgement everybody remember it as we know recording will displayed to us from the beginning of our times and the time of our species ..

sister take your time and understand the verses properly according to their context ..

Amra94

believing in him mean believe in the system what he make for humanity.. the one who believes in system is indirectly believing in God too

A Muslim acknowledges One God and appreciates Him. Some atheists might be peaceful but they say theres no god, so how can they be called Muslims?
4133 And who is better in speech than one who invites to God and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

1693 Had God so willed, He could have made you all one single community. However, He lets go astray him that wills (to go astray) and guides him that wills (to be guided). And you will be called to account for all that you ever did.

Ye, idol worshipers/rejecters will be held accountable for all they ever did but their "good deeds" won't count

572 ....Whoever sets up partners with God, then God will restrict Paradise from him, and his destiny will be the Fire; and the wicked will have no supporters.

A_Submitter

red This is to deep for me, can you explain what you mean.

I don't remember why I wrote that.

imrankhawaja

A Muslim acknowledges One God and appreciates Him. Some atheists might be peaceful but they say theres no god, so how can they be called Muslims?

handshake you give the answer of ur own question
muslim= ?
peaceful=?

pharoah the athiest was peaceful ?

u need to understand the defination of athiest , he is the one who kows the truth but he rejects it after knowing it..

a random poor athiest if he dnt know the truth and he is ready to accept the truth , catagorically he is just one in lot of confused people who are seeking God.. (he beleives universe is God) but when he ll advance more he can understand the universe itself a creation ..

some people beleive sun is God, some beleive jesus is God, some beleive ali is God , some beleive RAM is God..

when abraham reject the system people called him athiest , but his mind was not built in the way other people around him ,and ultimately he seek help from one real creator (God)..

read my previous posts ur understanding of athiest is different from mine..
same like understanding of God/nature is different from nation to nation and mind to mind

NOTE i know stories of lot of athiests who once in their life face a situation that turn their whole life

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Gr54pYc3Ak
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifllgTA2pmY&t=659s

es

Peace,

red This is to deep for me, can you explain what you mean.

I don't remember why I wrote that.

What an anticlimax! rotfl ;D

peace

imrankhawaja

What an anticlimax! rotfl ;D

climax of outcomes

either one can do thanx for what he have or do patience for what he dnt have. lol

Cerberus

Sectarians are polytheists and hypocrites, i.e. they have set up partners with God. They don't fall under the category "believers", not even "submittters".

Very judgemental and not true at all.

make your relation based on emotions/feelings not on religion ..

Base such a life time experience on something as versatile as feelings ? Not the best advice !
I'd say it should be a sound judgement of the other person and his ability to be a good father/mother of your child and a good companion to yourself. A mercy from God to seal that loneliness of ours, and a trial.

Do not assign piety to yourselves or to other people. You will never know who is really pious. This knowledge is only with God (5332)
292 Did the people think that they will be left to say "We believe" without being put to the test?
293 We had tested those before them, so that God would distinguish those who are truthful and so that He would know the liars.

Amen, A Submitter could use these verses and stop calling out people he doesn't know as hypocrites and polytheist.

As far as I'm concerned, most of us are relatively drunk, we've all drank from this life and so most of our views are distorted and life oriented, rather than God oriented. Very unfortunate. our true reality and the true reality of God isn't something as easily acquired and known from reading on papers or anything. that I can tell you. Very unfortunate that we are all drunk.
May God turn us sober

good_logic

Brother Cerberus,when I read your posts nowadays I smile and think that you have either been to "that mountain" to meditate or you are ready to leave all prepared "to become sober"!!!
And no,I am not " drunk" when I say this.
In short,I agree with the advice to "sober up" and wake up .

PS I am heading to North Africa in few weeks on a holiday, may be I will find you somewhere in the Atlas mountains?
GOD bless you.
Peace

Amra94

handshake you give the answer of ur own question
muslim= ?
peaceful=?

pharoah the athiest was peaceful ?

u need to understand the defination of athiest , he is the one who kows the truth but he rejects it after knowing it..

a random poor athiest if he dnt know the truth and he is ready to accept the truth , catagorically he is just one in lot of confused people who are seeking God.. (he beleives universe is God) but when he ll advance more he can understand the universe itself a creation ..

some people beleive sun is God, some beleive jesus is God, some beleive ali is God , some beleive RAM is God..

when abraham reject the system people called him athiest , but his mind was not built in the way other people around him ,and ultimately he seek help from one real creator (God)..

read my previous posts ur understanding of athiest is different from mine..
same like understanding of God/nature is different from nation to nation and mind to mind

NOTE i know stories of lot of athiests who once in their life face a situation that turn their whole life

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Gr54pYc3Ak
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifllgTA2pmY&t=659s

The definition of atheism is lack of belief in the existence God

A muslim believes in the existence of the one and only true God. Atheists arent Muslim. Is all I'm trying to say. <br>
<br>

And ya they can be peaceful but theyre not muslim because they dont acknowledge the creator.