Are these scientific mistakes ???
-
Peace, all the words are there along with punishment mentioned...
Peace, yes, so? I've never said there is no punishment.
Chapter 24 of the Qur'an, something is really fishy about it. Too many "obey the messenger", just too many of it, too much of a community, too many physical legal punishments. Something is very unusual about this chapter, I can't accept it the way it is right now. Perhaps it is not supposed to be a standalone chapter but a part of some other text where God speaks how people lived like fascist and then he says don't be like them. Idk. -\
-
A question is whether the alleged word for "punishment" really means that or if the word means something else.
The word you refer to can also mean "deny" according to etymological sources.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
A question is whether the alleged word for "punishment" really means that or if the word means something else.
The word you refer to can also mean "deny" according to etymological sources.
Be well
Qarael AmenuelWould be great if you could refer to pages of Lane, MoF.
Peace.
-
Peace, yes, so? I've never said there is no punishment.
Chapter 24 of the Qur'an, something is really fishy about it. Too many "obey the messenger", just too many of it, too much of a community, too many physical legal punishments. Something is very unusual about this chapter, I can't accept it the way it is right now. Perhaps it is not supposed to be a standalone chapter but a part of some other text where God speaks how people lived like fascist and then he says don't be like them. Idk. -\
And also in chapter 24 in many cases God clearly says he is the one who can't be harmed and nothing what happens on Earth harms him, and it is he who judges. So why legal governmental punishments?
-
Would be great if you could refer to pages of Lane, MoF.
Peace.
If I am not mistaken, volume 5 pages 266-268.
"To deny, hinder from, be inaccessible, prevent.
Also "desist, abstain from".
Also more plausible if someone has done something bad such as promiscuity that you deny (disown) them and their doing. Showing strict disapproval will be effective since it is in the instinctive nature of humans to seek approval, and the more of a role model (estimated on a hierarchical ladder) you are the more hurtful is the disapproval aimed at someone whereas if you are not influential disapproval may be ineffective.
So-called celebrities bear the burden of being role models in a society and they often do it poorly too. If these people do what should be disapproved of, then if someone with less influence disapprove of the same they may even be laughed at.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
If I am not mistaken, volume 5 pages 266-268.
"To deny, hinder from, be inaccessible, prevent.
Also "desist, abstain from".
Thanks. I agree it would be way more plausible. Also rejecting the disbelievers especially celebrities would decrease them in price so that people would stop following the idols.
But unfortunately I've failed to find these meanings of punishment as you suggest. I am not too experienced with the style of Lane, but so far I've found punishment
http//pix.academ.info/img/2017/09/27/e0a2f80512ae5531a7b80644290c9613.png
Nevermind
http//pix.academ.info/img/2017/09/27/46a64b1386087f10a836d2a2b00653bd.png
But what about hundred lashes?
-
Thanks. I agree it would be way more plausible. Also rejecting the disbelievers especially celebrities would decrease them in price so that people would stop following the idols.
But unfortunately I've failed to find these meanings of punishment as you suggest. I am not too experienced with the style of Lane, but so far I've found punishment
http//pix.academ.info/img/2017/09/27/e0a2f80512ae5531a7b80644290c9613.png
Nevermind
http//pix.academ.info/img/2017/09/27/46a64b1386087f10a836d2a2b00653bd.png
But what about hundred lashes?
I am not really interested in debating the traditional understanding of Quran, but you can reason with yourself if is so twisted as to imply punishment when it in reality means deny, then it is unlikely the word for lashes means just that.
is the (root) word translated as flog or lash, but that is not its only connotation but it can mean compel or force, or endure (as if to suffer a consequence). I cannot speculate too much without delving into deciphering the whole context.
As for Zina, it is not even certain it is restricted to adultery, but it can be anything which is a shameful doing (misdeeds) such as thievery, when someone has committed something. It is possible to see indications of this if browsing available definitions.
It is not possible to retain the traditional interpretation of Quran and the way it is understood if to find out what it should really say, it is too grossly distorted. Not even words that are dogmatically held unto mean something what is claimed about them such as "allah".
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
is the (root) word translated as flog or lash, but that is not its only connotation but it can mean compel or force, or endure (as if to suffer a consequence). I cannot speculate too much without delving into deciphering the whole context.
As for Zina, it is not even certain it is restricted to adultery, but it can be anything which is a shameful doing (misdeeds) such as thievery, when someone has committed something. It is possible to see indications of this if browsing available definitions.
Thanks. I agree on zina and similar concepts, including riba (usury), can be a wider concept than it is usually percieved.
-
And also in chapter 24 in many cases God clearly says he is the one who can't be harmed and nothing what happens on Earth harms him, and it is he who judges. So why legal governmental punishments?
People do well condemning themselves so there is hardly any need for punishments. The destruction of a soul into non-existence mentally is punishment enough and it is self-inflicted.
Better for people to emulate a healer and try to help people who are broken.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Thanks. I agree on zina and similar concepts, including riba (usury), can be a wider concept than it is usually percieved.
If it sounds primitive and lowly, your common sense is bound to be correct.
-
Peace, yes, so? I've never said there is no punishment.
Peace, never said you said there is no punishment.
What puzzled me last few days why scribe/s wrote punishment with alif other places without?
Their system was to distinguish when refers to individual no alif and to group written with alif.
https//s26.postimg.org/g0h8w9ip5/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch25v35-45.jpg
https//s26.postimg.org/3y82ww5bd/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch33v62-72.jpg
Modern texts consistently use alif ignore nuance which scribes of old were more cognizant.
-
Don't doubt your Lord's Words
Research high altitude balloons and rockets and do not presume the current paradigm you believe is even near to correct. Once you remove all your biases and expectations and open your mind and heart to God's indication you might see clearly it is exactly as He citesIf you can actually come up with a correct map for the flat earth model taking into account the real distances between locations and not any sort of projections issued from the globe model, I'd be forced to accept it, for the moment I'll stay neutral...
-
Peace, all the words are there along with punishment mentioned...
I think we again fell under the influence of our preconceived notion. I reread the verses on lashing. There is something we all missed. 4 witnesses won't be enough. They also have to take an oath
And the fifth that the curse of Allah be upon him if he should be among the liars.247
That's similar to the one I asked from both Bukharists and atheists only to see them consistently discontinue their conversation with me after that on why what they believed was right.
-
Witnesses, of course, must be questionned and their respective testimony checked against each other and any other testimony or evidence. Besides, nobody is obliged to testify. The accuser must find the witnesses and make them testify, no institution is bound to do such job and nobody can be forced to act as witnesses. It is all upon the accuser to get the witnesses.
Salaam
-
Witnesses, of course, must be questionned and their respective testimony checked against each other and any other testimony or evidence. Besides, nobody is obliged to testify. The accuser must find the witnesses and make them testify, no institution is bound to do such job and nobody can be forced to act as witnesses. It is all upon the accuser to get the witnesses.
Salaam
That's the loophole being used in countries that have lashing punishment for rapists. It is rare for women to find a witness. The consequence is the state lashing them with the excuse of false accusations they are putting on the rapists. But as we have seen earlier, not even atheists are comfortable taking an oath like the one in 247.
-
But for rpe there is no need to find four witnesses, that is a crime, like murder or theft.
It would not be a loophole it would be a complete rebellion against justice and the Qur'an and for which any other means of evidence is admissible.
In that case it is not a natural difficulty but an act of corruption all right. The question then would nto be the Qur'an but the state of a society for which justice simply is not such but another means of oppression. That is a rotten society.
Salaam
-
Peace,
But for rpe there is no need to find four witnesses, that is a crime, like murder or theft.
It would not be a loophole it would be a complete rebellion against justice and the Qur'an and for which any other means of evidence is admissible.
Where is the punishment for rape outlined in The Reading according to you? Clearly we can see the punishment for theft, for instance in 538.
Also, there have been countless accusations of rape which were simply not true - especailly in the West and specifically the USA. I am guessing here, but I wouldn't be surprised that women at least in the USA report rape at a higher rate than it actually happens. The (third-wave) feminist movement is the primary reason for this pushing their "rape culture" myth and telling women to be slutty and claiming it's ok to feel like having been raped by just regretting sex with a stranger. E.g. "I am a slut and regret having sex with that guy. Rape!" Or "What if my boyfriend finds out that I am a slut and cheated on him... Oh yeah I will just accuse that guy I slept with of rape!" It's easy for females, and courts are in favor of females not just in cases of rape/sexual harrassment in the U.S. such as the child custody, alimony, lower prison sentences for crimes (not looked too much into this though,) etc.
What do you mean by "that is a crime, like murder and theft (sic)" - does that comma imply that you are saying that "zina" is not a crime or that rape is a crime like theft and murder - and what do you mean by that?
-
Look at what the Qur'an provides for agression or oppression, it would be by that standard that rape should be measured a crime. Zina is nto a crime, it is a civil offence or whatever you want to call, a private undetaking of the accuser of zina not something that the courts should pursue at their own initiative, as it is clearly expounded in sura An-nur.
5.38 do not speak about a punishment but as to an action that should be undertaken to prevent thieves to keep doing it.
And what do you mean whethr rape is a crime? Is it not? In that case ,I do hope you get raped a few times and enjoy it, and do not come then complaining about that you did not want it and all that. We know, you raped, are always lying.
-
And what do you mean whethr rape is a crime? Is it not? In that case ,I do hope you get raped a few times and enjoy it, and do not come then complaining about that you did not want it and all that. We know, you raped, are always lying.
Are you mentally ill? I asked for your definitions and your views. I almost expected a deranged answer from you. You dont know me. Alas, you will get judged - I will not get caught up with you.
-
There are no punishments in the Qur'an. What is the punishment for shitting in the public places? What is the punishment for financial scams or speculations? What are the punishment for gazzilion of other civil, economic and criminal offences? There are none. All these punishments "prescribed" for thieves and adultures are a product of biased minds and mistranslations. Qur'an is NOT meant as a book for capital punishment, or as a constitution, or as a state. It is a book with a message for personal development. Only psychopaths and deluded will be looking at it and seek for punishments. Qur'an has no punishments, everything bad or good what happens around us is a product of our actions and the actions of others, which can be test for us.
I will give you an example of zakat, which in no way is a silly yearly tax as they want you to think, it is a far wider concept of both purity and mercy (depends on the context where it is, either ata al zakat/maintain purity or forgive in zakata/have mercy). And why do you think a book, which was severely mistranslated for ages, and which contains such powerful concepts, which in turn have been greatly understated by the clergy, would want you to act like an animal and punish someone with hundred lashes, or cutting of hands even for thieves? Wake up, you don't have any property therefore you can't even think of punishments. Try not paying taxes see what happens, if you live in the private house. In case you live in apartments, pfff..you don't have any property even your walls belong to the apartment union or a district and not your family even though you might think you "own" the apartment legally. There is nothing you own and there is nothing to protect, but having mercy and resisting your instincts, including the instincts related to revenge, is an ultimate goal of a believer, even if his/her relative is killed (545, 391-391.