AlFathia
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No worship lead to freedom from subjugation of religion. No worship, hence no subjugation, therefore freedom of mankind from all kinds of slavery even slavery of gods.
Wait i am lost here, how is worship causes subjugation? Isn't that like a anti theist claim or something? There was also atheist groups who did some bad thing like League of Militant Atheists in Soviet Union. Look up their grave misdeeds.
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Let us keep this discussion to understanding of Quran and especially word Allah based upon linguistic rules. Thanks.
Okay. Still i am not sure if Allah really means One who does not engage worship. What do you say about this brother Manny_E?
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Wait i am lost here, how is worship causes subjugation? Isn't that like a anti theist claim or something? There was also atheist groups who did some bad thing like League of Militant Atheists in Soviet Union. Look up their grave misdeeds.
Worship and concept of god for worship leads to hierarchy of religious institutions. It only serves the purpose of these institutions and people running these institutions. The common people are salves of god via these institutions . However, if there is a creator? One doesn't need any hierarchy or structured ritualistic religion to bring humans to him. Their description of creator is as wrong as yours or mine. It is all imaginative with false accounts created and attributed to imaginative authorities.
So far what I understand of Quran. While it denies worship and hence obliterates need for the god or gods for worship. Yet it doesn't provide a description of a creator.
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Worship and concept of god for worship leads to hierarchy of religious institutions. It only serves the purpose of these institutions and people running these institutions. The common people are salves of god via these institutions . However, if there is a creator? One doesn't need any hierarchy or structured ritualistic religion to bring humans to him. Their description of creator is as wrong as yours or mine. It is all imaginative with false accounts created and attributed to imaginative authorities.
Since when did i say about rituals and hierarchy?
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So far what I understand of Quran. While it denies worship and hence obliterates need for the god or gods for worship. Yet it doesn't provide a description of a creator.
I don't think you are correct about that. Check Surah 112.
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I don't think you are correct about that. Check Surah 112.
You mean to say following establish it?
Surah 112 1
He, who doesn?t engage in worship is following an ultimate reality, use your rational and express
Surah 112 2
The course needs to be repaired and directed to one, who doesn?t engage in worship.
Surah 112 3
Neither he has introduced a new idea, nor he could.
Surah 112 4
There is no other ultimate reality in likeliness for him.
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Surah 112 1
He, who doesn?t engage in worship is following an ultimate reality, use your rational and express
Where did you get following and ultimate reality? I checked the root word of Ahadun (د and doesn't say anything about ultimate reality or following.
Alif-Ha-Dal = make/call it one, unity, anyone/anything.
ahada ashara (eleven).ahad n. 296, 2102, 2102, 2136, 2180, 2266, 2282, 2282, 2285, 373, 384, 391, 3153, 418, 420, 443, 4152, 56, 520, 527, 5106, 5115, 661, 780, 87, 94, 96, 952, 984, 9127, 1181, 1236, 1241, 1278, 1565, 1658, 1676, 1723, 1819, 1822, 1826, 1832, 1838, 1842, 1847, 1849, 18110, 1926, 1998, 2399, 246, 2421, 2428, 2825, 2826, 2827, 2928, 3332, 3339, 3340, 3541, 3542, 3835, 43!7, 499, 4912, 5911, 6310, 6947, 722, 727, 7218, 7220, 7222, 7226, 7435, 8925, 8926, 905, 907, 9219, 1121, 1124
ahada ashara n. num. 124
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 1, pages 63, 64, 65 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=aHd
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Surah 112 2
The course needs to be repaired and directed to one, who doesnt engage in worship.
Where did you get The course needs to be repaired and directed to one from? It says Allahu alssamadu ( د and alssamadu is in masculine noun not verb. Yes one of the meanings of ssamadu is repair but repair is a verb.
Sad-Miim-Dal = to set up, erect a thing, adorn, wish, repair, strike. samad - chief, lord, eternal, one to whom obedience is rendered, one to whom recourse is had, one who is independent, everything goes back to him as its source.
ssamadu (n. m. sing.) - 1122
LL, V4, p 450, 451 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=SMd
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Surah 112 3
Neither he has introduced a new idea, nor he could.
Yalid & yooladu doesn't mean idea, it means to beget or give birth
Waw-Lam-Dal = to beget, give birth.
Walada (prf. 3rd. p. m. sing.) he has begotten.
Waladna (prf. 3rd. p. f. plu.) They (f.) gave birth.
Wulida (pp. 3rd. p. m. sing.) He was born.
Wulidtu (pp. 1st. p. sing.) I was born.
Yalid (imp. 3rd. p. sing. juss.) He begets.
Yaliduu (imp. 3rd. p. m. plu. acc.) They will beget.
Alidu (imp. 1st. sing.) I will give birth, will bear a child.
Yuulad (pip. 3rd. p. m. sing. juss.) He is begotten.
Waladun (n.) Child; Offspring.
Aulaad (plu.) Children.
Waalidun (act. pic. m. sing.) Begotten, Real father.
Waalidatun (act. pic. f. sing.) Mother.
Waalidaan/Waalidain (act. pic. dual) Parents.
Waalidai (act. pic. duel. f. d.) Parents.
Wildaan (n. plu.) Youths; Children.
Waliidun (act. 2nd. pic. m. sing.) Child.
Mauluudun (pis. pic. m. sing. ) Begotten one; One who is born.walada vb. (1)
perf. act. 37152, 582, 903
impf. act. 1172, 7127, 1123
perf. pass. 1915, 1933
impf. pass. 1123
pcple. act. (f. walidah, du. walidan) 283, 2180, 2215, 2233, 2233, 47, 47, 433, 436, 4135, 5110, 6151, 1441, 1723, 1914, 1932, 2719, 298, 3114, 3114, 3133, 3133, 4615, 4615, 4617, 7128, 903
pcple. pass. 2233, 2233, 3133walad n.m. (pl. awlad) 2116, 2233, 2233, 2233, 2233, 310, 347, 3116, 411, 411, 411, 412, 412, 412, 412, 4171, 4176, 4176, 6101, 6137, 6140, 6151, 828, 955, 969, 985, 1068, 1221, 1731, 1764, 17111, 184, 1839, 1935, 1977, 1988, 1991, 1992, 2126, 2391, 252, 289, 3133, 3435, 3437, 394, 4381, 5720, 5817, 603, 6012, 639, 6414, 6415, 7121, 723
walid n.m. (pl. wildan) 475, 498, 4127, 2618, 5617, 7317, 7619
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 8, pages 220, 221, 222 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=wld
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Surah 112 4
There is no other ultimate reality in likeliness for him.
Again where is the ultimate reality in the verse? Kufuwan (ا means equal
Kaf-Fa-Alif = To equal, compare.
Kufuwan Equal, like comparable; corresponding.
kufu n.m. 1124
LL, V7, p 145, 146 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=kfa
The arabic word for reality is alhaqqatu (ة (691)
Ha-Qaf-Qaf = To be suitable to the requirements of justice or wisdom or truth or right or reality or fact, to be just/proper/right/correct/true/fitting, to be authentic/genuine/sound/valid/substantial/real, also established/confirmed/binding/unavoidable/incumbent, to be manifest, without doubt or uncertainty, established as a fact, to be obligatory or due, have right or title or claim to a thing, deserve or merit a thing, most worthy, ascertain, to be sure or certain, to be true or verifiable or veritable, to be serious or earnest, dispute or litigate or contend with another, speak the truth, reveal/manifest/show a truth or right, to be proven true, pierce or penetrate.
haqqa vb. (1)
perf. act. 730, 1033, 1096, 1636, 1716, 2218, 2863, 3213, 367, 3731, 3814, 3919, 3971, 406, 4125, 4618, 5014
impf. act. 3670
perf. pass. 842, 845ahaqq n.m. (comp. adj. of haqq and haqiq) 2228, 2247, 5107, 681, 913, 962, 9108, 1035, 3337, 4826
haqiq n.m. 7105
haqq n.m. 226, 242, 242, 261, 271, 291, 2109, 2119, 2121, 2144, 2146, 2147, 2149, 2176, 2180, 2213, 2213, 2236, 2241, 2252, 2282, 2282, 33, 321, 360, 371, 371, 386, 3102, 3108, 3112, 3154, 3181, 4105, 4122, 4151, 4155, 4170, 4171, 527, 548, 548, 577, 583, 584, 5116, 65, 630, 657, 662, 666, 673, 691, 693, 6114, 6141, 6151, 78, 733, 743, 744, 744, 753, 789, 7105, 7118, 7146, 7159, 7169, 7181, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 832, 874, 929, 933, 948, 9111, 104, 105, 1023, 1030, 1032, 1032, 1035, 1035, 1035, 10;36, 1053, 1053, 1055, 1076, 1077, 1082, 1094, 10103, 10108, 1117, 1145, 1179, 11120, 1251, 12100, 131, 1314, 1317, 1319, 1419, 1422, 158, 1555, 1564, 1585, 163, 1638, 16;102, 1726, 1733, 1781, 17105, 17105, 1813, 1821, 1829, 1844, 1856, 1898, 1934, 20114, 2118, 2124, 2155, 2197, 21112, 226, 2240, 2254, 2262, 2274, 2278, 2341, 2362, 2370, 2370, 2371, 2390, 23116, 2425, 2425, 2449, 2526, 2533, 2668, 2779, 283, 2813, 2839, 2848, 2853, 2875, 2944, 2968, 308, 3038, 3047, 3060, 319, 3130, 3133, 323, 334, 3353, 346, 3423, 3426, 3443, 3448, 3449, 355, 3524, 3531, 3737, 3822, 3826, 3864, 3884, 3884, 392, 395, 3941, 3967, 3969, 3975, 405, 4020, 4025, 4055, 4075, 4077, 4078, 4115, 4153, 4217, 4218, 4224, 4242, 4329, 4330, 4378, 4378, 4386, 4439, 456, 4522, 4529, 4532, 463, 467, 4617, 4620, 4630, 4634, 472, 473, 4827, 4828, 505, 5019, 5042, 5119, 5123, 5328, 5695, 5716, 5727, 601, 619, 643, 6951, 7024, 7839, 1033
haqqah n.f. 691, 692, 693
ahaqqa vb. (4) impf. act. 87, 88, 1082, 4224
istahaqqa vb. (10) perf. act. 5107, 5107
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7qq
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Salam/Peace. By the way not accusing you of something bad.
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Where did you get The course needs to be repaired and directed to one from? It says Allahu alssamadu ( د and alssamadu is in masculine noun not verb. Yes one of the meanings of ssamadu is repair but repair is a verb.
Sad-Miim-Dal = to set up, erect a thing, adorn, wish, repair, strike. samad - chief, lord, eternal, one to whom obedience is rendered, one to whom recourse is had, one who is independent, everything goes back to him as its source.
ssamadu (n. m. sing.) - 1122
LL, V4, p 450, 451 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=SMd
Lesson number # 1 in the language. Almost, all triliteral roots are verbs. Any derivative word from root must carry that verbal meanings? If it doesn't, take it with a pinch of salt try to figure out why?
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Lesson number # 1 in the language. Almost, all triliteral roots are verbs. Any derivative word from root must carry that verbal meanings? If it doesn't, take it with a pinch of salt try to figure out why?
Forgive me if i got this wrong but alssamadu is in masculine noun singular form. If it was a verbal noun it would have been umd (‎. I got this from Wikitonary by the way.
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Forgive me if i got this wrong but alssamadu is in masculine noun singular form. If it was a verbal noun it would have been umd (‎. I got this from Wikitonary by the way.
Seems you didn't pay any attention to the following in red.
Lesson number # 1 in the language. Almost, all triliteral roots are verbs. Any derivative word from root must carry that verbal root meanings. If it doesn't, take it with a pinch of salt try to figure out why?
One can discuss with which equivalent word of the Language that it is translated in to use. Furthermore, one can't understand the Quran until understands that real meanings of Allah is "one who doesn't engage in worship". Current traditional meanings of words in translation were chosen or invented to fit understanding of Allah as "one and only deity for worship". Hence, this meaning of Allah impedes ones mind from looking at any other root meanings of a given root.
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Current traditional meanings of words in translation were chosen or invented to fit understanding of Allah as "one and only deity for worship". Hence, this meaning of Allah impedes ones mind from looking at any other root meanings of a given root.
Deity for worship? I am sorry if i lost you but where is did you get Deity & Worship together?
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By the way i forgot to Allah is not a religious god. God doesn't require a religion.
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Please share your understanding of word worship? Also what do you understand by word god?
I don't exactly have a understanding of worship. If you are referring to the word ibadat then to me it's to serve or serving through good & righteous deeds. And as for word God i am very skeptical of the object of worship. I learned that the proto-indoeuropean root word of God has some dispute.
A brother/sister of ours (Aries) made a research of the word God
Check heredh
Inner Light and MeditationOnce the Indo-Europeans had used the consonant d, symbol of light, to denote the divine (divya) and god (deva), they then used the d to mean to bear light within the human soul and they consequently formed the root dh to think in contemplation or contemplative thinking.
From dh came the word dhti devotion, prayer or meditation, which, in Latin, corresponds to the word fides faith
(Please, note that the development of indoeuropean dh > latin f is very common.
From "Comparative etymological Dictionary of classical Indo-European languages Indo-European - Sanskrit - Greek - Latin", Rendich Franco, p. 88 (2014)
From this, the root for Greek theos (ς and latin deus have been recognised
dyeu-
To shine (and in many derivatives, "sky, heaven, god". Zero-grades *dyu and *diw.
Derivatives include Tuesday, divine, jovial, Jupiter, diary, dismal, journey, and psychedelic.- Basic form *dyeu, Jove, the name of the god of the bright sky, head of the Indo-European pantheon.
- Jove, jovial; apojove, perijove, Sangiovese, from Latin Iovis, Jupiter, or Iov, stem of Iuppiter, Jupiter.
- July, from Latin Ilius, "descended from Jupiter" (name of a Roman gens), from derivative *iou-il.
- Vocative compound *dyeu-pter, "O father Jove" (*pter, father; see pter-). Jupiter, from Latin Iuppiter, Ipiter, head of the Roman pantheon.
- Dione, Zeus; dianthus, Dioscuri, from Greek Zeus (genitive Dios), Zeus.
- Noun *deiwos, god, formed by e-insertion to the zero-grade *diw and suffixation of (accented) -o.
- Tiu, Tuesday, from Old English Tw (genitive Twes), god of war and sky;
- Tyr, from Old Norse Tr, sky god. Both a and b from Germanic *Twaz.
- deism, deity, joss; adieu, adios, deific, deus ex machina, from Latin deus, god.
- diva, divine, from Latin dvus, divine, god.
- Dis, Dives, from Latin dves, rich (< "fortunate, blessed, divine".
- Suffixed zero-grade form *diw-yo, heavenly. Diana, from Latin Dina, moon goddess.
- deva, Devi; deodar, Devanagari, from Sanskrit deva, god, and deva, divine.
- Asmodeus, from Avestan dauua, spirit, demon.
- Variant *dy (< *dye‑ dial, diary, diet2, dismal, diurnal, journal, journey; adjourn, ajour?, circadian, meridian, postmeridian, quotidian, sojourn, from Latin dis, day.
- Variant *dei. psychedelic, adelgid, from Greek dlos (< *deyalos), clear.
From https//www.ahdictionary.com/word/indoeurop.html#IR017200
And also the Germanic Gott and English God
Quote
gheu(ə-
To call, invoke. Oldest form *gheu(h2/3), becoming *gheu(h2/3) in centum languages. Suffixed zero-grade form *ghu-to, "the invoked," god.- god, from Old English god, god;
- giddy, from Old English gydig, gidig, possessed, insane, from Germanic *gud-iga, possessed by a god;
- g?tterd?mmerung, from Old High German got, god. a-c all from Germanic *gudam, god.
From https//www.ahdictionary.com/word/indoeurop.html#IR031900
This root gheu(ə- is closely related to the root *ged-
*ged-
to join, to unite
Lith. guodas, Ltv. gods, Eng. gd/good, Gm. guot/gut, Goth. g?s; gds, ON g?r, Skr. (gadhya), OCS god, Russ. (god), Polish gody, Toch. ktk/ktkfrom https//en.wiktionary.org/.../AppendixList_of.../g%CA%B0
Oxford English Dictionary
"god (gd). Also 3-4 godd. [Com. Teut. OE. god (masc. in sing.; pl. godu, godo neut., godas masc.) corresponds to OFris., OS., Du. god masc., OHG. got, cot (MHG. got, mod.Ger. gott) masc., ON. go?, gu? neut. and masc., pl. go?, gu? neut. (later Icel. pl. gu?ir masc.; Sw., Da. gud), Goth. gu?(masc. in sing.; pl. gu?a, guda neut.). The Goth. and ON. words always follow the neuter declension, though when used in the Christian sense they are syntactically masc. The OTeut. type is therefore *guom neut., the adoption of the masculine concord being presumably due to the Christian use of the word. The neuter sb., in its original heathen use, would answer rather to L. numen than to L. deus. Another approximate equivalent of deus in OTeut. was *ansu-z (Goth. in latinized pl. form anses, ON. ss, OE. ?s- in personal names, ?sa genit. pl.); but this seems to have been applied only to the higher deities of the native pantheon, never to foreign gods; and it never came into Christian use.
The ulterior etymology is disputed. Apart from the unlikely hypothesis of adoption from some foreign tongue, the OTeut. *gubom implies as its pre-Teut. type either *ghudho-m or *ghut?-m. The former does not appear to admit of explanation; but the latter would represent the neut. of the passive pple. of a root *gheu-. There are two Aryan roots of the required form (both *glheu, with palatal aspirate) one meaning to invoke (Skr. hū, the other to pour, to offer sacrifice (Skr. hu, Gr. , OE. y?otan YETE v.). Hence *glhut?-m has been variously interpreted as what is invoked (cf. Skr. puru-hta much-invoked, an epithet of Indra) and as what is worshipped by sacrifice (cf. Skr. hut?, which occurs in the sense sacrificed to as well as in that of offered in sacrifice’. Either of these conjectures is fairly plausible, as they both yield a sense practically coincident with the most obvious definition deducible from the actual use of the word, an object of worship.
Some scholars, accepting the derivation from the root *glheu- to pour, have supposed the etymological sense to be molten image Gr. ν, but the assumed development of meaning seems very unlikely.
From the Oxford English Dictionary.
I dont know very much about the particular stem, but I think that it is obvious why gheu(ə (invoke, call) and other root *ged- (unite, join) come from the same seme since when you call, people get united and joined and gathered. This *ged- also became gut in German and good in English. You still use it in the English words "gather" or "together".
In any case, I could only give a proper linguistic approach myself about the Greek "theos" and latin "deus", but I think your issue is about the English "god".
Also you must know there are other approaches which reject the above widely accepted etymology ( check http//search.proquest.com/.../168623f5623c2cb08baa8.../1... ), although personally I dont see any problem in the acceptance of no laryngeal development.
Note Proto Indoeuropean is a family of languages that consists on more than 100 languages (from German and Latin to Sanskrit or Armenian). These languages are supposed to come from a language (Indieuropean) talked around 4500 BC in Central Asia and spread until Europe in several migration waves. Those people had several names but the general one is Aryans. Take into account that the PIE reconstruction project is not only a project held by linguistics, it is a huge attempt that counts on genetics, archaeology, anthropology and geology)
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I don't exactly have a understanding of worship. If you are referring to the word ibadat then to me it's to serve or serving through good & righteous deeds. And as for word God i am very skeptical of the object of worship. I learned that the proto-indoeuropean root word of God has some dispute.
A brother/sister of ours (Aries) made a research of the word God
Check herePlease explain further in red what do you mean? Try defining concept god in your words. At best in one or two sentences. Anything that can not be defined this way is not a real concept.
