Are there Female prophetess
-
2"136 Say, , "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims to Him
Amra94 this is the complete verse you referring in your reply.. And claiming that prophets are to be obeyed and Mary is one of them.. Note few prophets names only mentioned here and others were mentioned as prophets... And note how the verse is constructed..... .."FROM THEIR LORD.. ANY OF THEM... " these verses are masculine forms.. If Mary or any other female prophets were assigned by God, God would have specifically elaborated at least in one of the verses... Thanks God that quran is in Arabic...
BTW with this verse no one can claim Mary was a Prophet... No evidence at all...
Okay Huruf call me anything you wish and compare me with Lot society or anything worse.. I don't mind... For me God's certificate is vital... Since you reminded about Lot people and since the topic here is about woman Prophet.. I would like to say something about Lot society based on QURAN...God will people will put a thought to it and verify... Everyone thinks that in community of Lot, men were the only culprit... But for me big NO... God destroyed whole of that city and shifting Lot and his daughters away from it sparing his wife with the rest..
2931And when Our messengers came to Abraham with the good tidings, they said, "Indeed, we will destroy the people of that Lot's city. Indeed, its people have been wrongdoers."
And indeed God said to destroy the entire city calling it's people were wrongdoers... God didn't single out saying to destroy the Men who practiced sodomy of that city.. If men were doing sodomy in one nation can we assume women in that city to be pure... Not probably n practically... Women cannot be kept away in a city... If families were living in that city then children would have been of course.. If children, then women would have had connection with men... What went wrong then???... Possible option 1..The women of that city would have never cared about what there husbands were practicing ..2 and would be keenly supporting to what the men doing ... 3 they could have been lesbians as well... . Why to destroy a city when the women of that city were pure ... That's totally unfair from God's point of view...
2932 Abraham] said, "Indeed, within it is Lot." They said, "We are more knowing of who is within it. We will surely save him and his family, except his wife. She is to be of those who remain behind."
Here most kind man Ibrahim worried about Lot and didn't even say that there were believing women also there.. When Ibrahim referred Lot be definitely mean his family too... God promised to save Lot family except his wife.. Family -AHL Or AALA (sometimes can be those who are believers with a prophet).. But here in this city it seems only Lot and his daughters...
1181 The angels said, "O Lot, indeed we are messengers of your Lord; , they will never reach you. So set out with your family during a portion of the night and let not any among you look back - except your wife; indeed, she will be struck by that which strikes them. Indeed, their appointment is the morning. Is not the morning near?"
So as per above verse Lot wife was one of those women who faced this destiny of wrath.. Observe carefully.. Messengers came to Lot and asked Him and his family to move during the night and even not told Lot to inform all the women of the city to join with him in order to save them...but not.. So it would have been a mammoth task for Lot to reach Evey household and inform them without knowing to the Men... Or else the message of destruction should have reached Lot well in advance and the women of the city should have informed repeatedly about a destruction to fall upon the city so that they could arrange themselves... But message was instant brought at night and asked to leave same night and morning was destruction... The destruction is not merely based on sodomy and more than that for which women also responsible...
I verify based on above conclusions women of Lot city also suffered the same agony which men faced with coz of one of the above reasons I indicated...
Now claiming only Men were wrong that society is purely biased statement... Don't forget when a destruction comes it destroyed men women and children as well. Coz God knows the destiny of children of such society as well...
No clue whether amra, centi50 or Huruf are born as Christians being mother toung Arabic and later you studied quran and started believing to certain extent and still unable to get out of the shackles of believing Mary to be as prophetic figure or something beyond that which was taught to you in your early life..i feel it monitoring your responses.. I find in my friends or even in this forum many who claim to be quran only but still they drag the hadith with them... Both categories are same.. People are are born and taught with certain set of beliefs but once they found the extreme truth and if they cannot discard their former belief then they will be in dilemma...
God bless believers -
Peace centi50 I can not find the mention of a female prophet via
Quran. nopepeace
So why is Maryam mentionned in sura 21, al anbiaa' in the realation of prophets one after the other. Why she should be there?
And if she is not a prophet what is she? Bause obviously she is something, and something most important according to Qur'an, or are all those things mentionned and calling her an aya means nothing?
To wit that the loss for denying Maryam is nto Maryam's or God's loss, but the denier's loss.
Salaam
-
Salam to All,
1643 And We did not send any except men before you whom We inspired, so ask the people who have received the Reminder if you do not know.
Just read this today, so I am wondering does this mean all messengers were men or does mean something else.
God bless
-
You have to bear in mind the meaning of the root r-j-l, to go on foot, walk. Rajul is not sex derived, but standing derived, like let us say it is a sociological meaning, just like nisaa', plural of woman, imra't, is a sociological meaning.
r-j-l denotes a person able to walk by him.herself, to stand by him or herself, whereas nisaa' refers to time-tide happenings or events. Obviously there are different time circumstances in a woman's life, that do not happen in man's life.
But there may be men also ho have such circumstance for hatever reason. So rajul-rijaal and nisaa' are sociological constructs.So women indeed can be rijaal and so has been the term been used. Rijaal-ul-lah is ell known concept in islamic spirituality and it includes women.
Also, please look ayas from 7.46 onwards and tell me whether those who are meant do have to have the attributes of males or whether it is indifferent.
Prophets of any sex, by their very condition are rijaal, even if they are also nisaa'. Prophets stand by themselves on their, feet or rather are kept so by God.
As to aya you mention it has to be understood as comprising both sexes since beside hat is being asserted is not the sex of anybody but the fact that God's inspires them. The fact that they would have a particular sex is of no significance nor it stated so, because if that was the idea, there is in the Qur'an very widely used term which it unequivocally determines the sex of the person, and as said, very, very widely used which is dhakar, plural dhukran or dhukur, and for the ome there is unthaa, plural inaathaa, if any of dhkar or unthaa is used, then you are completely remited to the sex of the person. If God had wanted to signify that, the use of dhakar would have been required.
If you take 16.43 to mean dhakar, you are taking a step of your own accord, imposing a particular sex on the will of God to send messengers or prophets or warners. Not God is taking that step, you are taking it. And by that step, whoever takes it is saying that Maryam was not inspired, that she had no mission from God, that God in the Qur'an is talking to us about her just for fun, no meaning to it. She means nothing to humanity nor for the women of humanity, that she is just any mother of a prophet as there are so many, many mothers of prophets who are never named nor mentionned in the Qur'an, least of all that by God's order their sons are named by the order og God by the name of their mother and not the other way around. Oh, yes, they will say to you, because he had no father, really? he had grandfather, he had uncles, he had males he could have been named after, and tht is very much used in semitic societies. Maryam seems to be that kind of hook God puts many times int he Qur'an where hypocrites can cling in order to appears as believers while in fact they believe more in their male body parts than in God.
I repeat again, it is a pity if you cannot read arabic, but pray to God, that he inspires you to dig truth out of mistranslations or unsifficient translations, because Maryam is decisive, for humanity and for women.
You see, God has told us about many male prophets int he Qur'an and in spite of it, you see that there are males that cling like hell to the maculinity of prophethood, but do nto follow, God forbid, the example set by prophets. Self effacing, self-sacrificing, humble, alwways serviciable to people, included, eminently women people.
In fact, don't you feel that it is indredible ludicrous that one big discussion amonst muslims should be that omen cannot be prophets, or that Maryam cannot be a prophet? What is the loss for anybody to have a woman be prophet. It is very depressing.
However, there r many men who believe Maryam is indeed a prophet. All the great
men of the good islamic age believed so, like Aben Arabi, Ibn Ruschd, etc.But modern biggots know better.
Do something, go to Corpus.Qur?n.com and verify for yoursef all the ocurrences of rijaal. Verify for yourself. Anybody can do that and ill spare him or herself spewing so much nonsense.
If you cannot do it because of the arabic, here is the link on rijaal
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=rjl
Then you can check all the ayas with the ones before and after to be sure about the context.
Salaam
-
Salamun Alaykum
There is no specific verse in AQ ruling out females Nabi, Rasool, Warner or bringer of good news, if there is, I am still to find it/them. If you care to read and think about 25/20, you will find that no gender was mentioned except that those who were appointed as above were/are all ordinary human being who consume food and drinks.
And We did not send before you, , any of the messengers except that they ate food and walked in the markets. And We have made some of you as trial for others - will you have patience? And ever is your Lord, Seeing.
Salamun Alaykum
-
You have to bear in mind the meaning of the root r-j-l, to go on foot, walk. Rajul is not sex derived, but standing derived, like let us say it is a sociological meaning, just like nisaa', plural of woman, imra't, is a sociological meaning.
r-j-l denotes a person able to walk by him.herself, to stand by him or herself, whereas nisaa' refers to time-tide happenings or events. Obviously there are different time circumstances in a woman's life, that do not happen in man's life.
But there may be men also ho have such circumstance for hatever reason. So rajul-rijaal and nisaa' are sociological constructs.So women indeed can be rijaal and so has been the term been used. Rijaal-ul-lah is ell known concept in islamic spirituality and it includes women.
Also, please look ayas from 7.46 onwards and tell me whether those who are meant do have to have the attributes of males or whether it is indifferent.
Prophets of any sex, by their very condition are rijaal, even if they are also nisaa'. Prophets stand by themselves on their, feet or rather are kept so by God.
As to aya you mention it has to be understood as comprising both sexes since beside hat is being asserted is not the sex of anybody but the fact that God's inspires them. The fact that they would have a particular sex is of no significance nor it stated so, because if that was the idea, there is in the Qur'an very widely used term which it unequivocally determines the sex of the person, and as said, very, very widely used which is dhakar, plural dhukran or dhukur, and for the ome there is unthaa, plural inaathaa, if any of dhkar or unthaa is used, then you are completely remited to the sex of the person. If God had wanted to signify that, the use of dhakar would have been required.
If you take 16.43 to mean dhakar, you are taking a step of your own accord, imposing a particular sex on the will of God to send messengers or prophets or warners. Not God is taking that step, you are taking it. And by that step, whoever takes it is saying that Maryam was not inspired, that she had no mission from God, that God in the Qur'an is talking to us about her just for fun, no meaning to it. She means nothing to humanity nor for the women of humanity, that she is just any mother of a prophet as there are so many, many mothers of prophets who are never named nor mentionned in the Qur'an, least of all that by God's order their sons are named by the order og God by the name of their mother and not the other way around. Oh, yes, they will say to you, because he had no father, really? he had grandfather, he had uncles, he had males he could have been named after, and tht is very much used in semitic societies. Maryam seems to be that kind of hook God puts many times int he Qur'an where hypocrites can cling in order to appears as believers while in fact they believe more in their male body parts than in God.
I repeat again, it is a pity if you cannot read arabic, but pray to God, that he inspires you to dig truth out of mistranslations or unsifficient translations, because Maryam is decisive, for humanity and for women.
You see, God has told us about many male prophets int he Qur'an and in spite of it, you see that there are males that cling like hell to the maculinity of prophethood, but do nto follow, God forbid, the example set by prophets. Self effacing, self-sacrificing, humble, alwways serviciable to people, included, eminently women people.
In fact, don't you feel that it is indredible ludicrous that one big discussion amonst muslims should be that omen cannot be prophets, or that Maryam cannot be a prophet? What is the loss for anybody to have a woman be prophet. It is very depressing.
However, there r many men who believe Maryam is indeed a prophet. All the great
men of the good islamic age believed so, like Aben Arabi, Ibn Ruschd, etc.But modern biggots know better.
Do something, go to Corpus.Qur?n.com and verify for yoursef all the ocurrences of rijaal. Verify for yourself. Anybody can do that and ill spare him or herself spewing so much nonsense.
If you cannot do it because of the arabic, here is the link on rijaal
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=rjl
Then you can check all the ayas with the ones before and after to be sure about the context.
Salaam
Well said sis
-
Thanks, Amra, hopefully, when Maryam is acknowledged we will have etter societies.
I wonder those who deny her how do they think 'isaa ibnu Maryam might feel about their denial. Of course no loss for him nor for his mother, they both fulfilled their mission,
but just imagine how it might be.Salaam
-
Centi 50 and the rest... Think of these verses of your minds still thinks Mary was a prophet... ..
575 The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth (Sidddeqah) They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.Now look how perfectly God describes a messenger.. Jesus mother is included in this verse but not called as messenger.. And most astonishingly God says messengers before him passed away..but if Mary was a messenger then God shouldn't call messengers before HIM passed away while Mary was alive. . Instead should be called messengers before them or before him and Mary..
Precisely God called Mary a siddequn... We know by below verse... Prophets are on a different level from siddiqun.. But still prophets could be a siddequn or even salihun based on his deeds.. But siddiqun or salihun cannot become prophets unless assigned by God.. Positions of prophets cannot be equalled to what a person's deeds.. But he or she may get the rankings in Janna which prophets are given.. If still one claim then clear rejection of God's verses and stated at the end of of 575...
469 And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger - those will be with the ones upon whom Allah has bestowed favor of the prophets, the steadfast affirmers of truth (Siddiqun) the martyrs and the righteous (salihun) . And excellent are those as companions.
God bless believers -
575 The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth (Sidddeqah) They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.
Now look how perfectly God describes a messenger.. Jesus mother is included in this verse but not called as messenger.. And most astonishingly God says messengers before him passed away..but if Mary was a messenger then God shouldn't call messengers before HIM passed away while Mary was alive. . Instead should be called messengers before them or before him and Mary..
peace,
thats called height of confidence handshake
prophethood = as a title = ( according to quran ) = maryum ? ( evidence required where God adresse mayum as PROPHET maryum = ?
chapter 21 only mention names of prophet ( evidence required again) ?
who is maryum if shez not prophet? vs who is asia( firoon wife) if shez not prophet ? vs who is mother of moses if shez not prophet ?
instead of gender debate women should note why God didnt make a women prophet ?
answers are lot lets start from this one.
now a days we see women and man are giving their roles with the help of security at that times it was security issue thats y in old times it was difficult for a women to preach like men. may b one of the possible reason. even the prophets of God were afraid of pharoah and he asked assistance. think about women at that situation who easily get scared by rat running at her house hahaha. naturally women is either scared from things weaker than her or they pretend to do it ? ( experiences from personal memories)
same like man pretend to brave enough even if they are not groupbtw i dnt mind if a women or man can b prophet infront of God. but as per scholaraly rules of grammer there is no evidence of a female as a prophet in quran? thats y people use grammer for indirect evidences.
i am saying again infront of GOD ? not infront of quran.
-
strange logic rotfl
we cant say something what God did not say ? yes
we cant haram something if God made it halal ? yes
we cant make somebody prophet on basis of our wishful thinking, if God did not make them prophet ? yesstraight forward logic but the deniers always wanted to fit grammer logic and everything to prove their point but again saying as per QURAN there is no female prophet.
herez a new challange denier vs denier ?
denier X( accuse those who deny maryum as a prophet)
denier Y( dnt think maryum in the list of prophet as therez no mention of her prophethood in scripture)denier X got no evidence as per rules of text
denier Y got plantey of evidences as per rules of text.God bless us all group
-
If it supprts Maryam as messenger then it is not good, it it can be used by making it apply where it is not applicable as an alibi to say the opposite, then it is good.
We deny, you are. Sura 21 is not good enough for you nor is anything of what is in the Qur'an about Maryam and you speak about logic and what is thre and what is not?
Yes deniers, exctly that deniers who prohibit God to send Maryam to the world, le alone other women.
You disguise it as you please you are rejecting Maryam. Do not address us person in a forum address yourself to God and tell Him I deny Maryam. I do nto care about the blabber repeated ad nauseam that you use as an alibi not to accept what God outs in the Qur'an. You explain to Him.
Salaam
-
this question is so silly, gender has nothing to do with what comes from God.
gender identities, and all imaginary pride filled group identities will die when the body dies and the only identity left is that one thing that truly unites us all. Everything else is a distraction and a potential source of division and a trial.
-
5116 Sahih International And when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen..
Take evidences from above verse 5116...God will pose a question to Maseeh Isa perhaps in the Day of ressurection.. .. "DID YOU SAY ...? God has records of everything and even without records God knows what people spoke in the past, but still will ask Isa... Why not Marryam the same question?... Isa was Prophet and messenger and he had his duties to speak to people with what is revealed and commanded to him... Coz people have claimed that Isa has said that he and his mother were deities other than God and in various other ways as well.. .. So God will ask the right person the right question.... God didn't ask Mary " Did you say to the people that take you and your son as deities other than God? " coz Mary was not assigned to deliver messages... Why God asks Isa Did you say to people unless people say so? So people have said that blasphemy and practiced and lodged the blame on Isa their Prophet innocently to do what their heart preferred to do by way of not rejecting Isa and Marryam but raising them more than that they were..... This is one of the example we can derive from QURAN that messengers will be gathered and questioned and the messengers will answer publicly denying...
5117 Sahih International I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.
Isa and Mary lived same place with same people and still Isa only says to God "I said not them except what you commanded me.... " Commandments did come to Isa and not Mary... (this 5117 is one of those strongest verses that made me to believe that Isa is dead and never come back to this world... If u research you will know)
616 Sahih International And when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."
As per 616 Isa claims "verily I am the messenger of Allah to you (Israel)... Confirming Thorah... Mary didn't claim neither Prophet /messenger /deity.. One of the signs of messengers was that they claim they are messengers truly... Anyone claims or accepts so, is uttering vehiment blasphemy against God.. In addition Isa talks of a glad tidings of a messenger to come after Him...
5727 Sahih International Then We sent following their footsteps Our messengers and followed with Jesus, the son of Mary, and gave HIM the Gospel. And We placed in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy and monasticism, which they innovated; We did not prescribe it for them except seeking the approval of Allah. But they did not observe it with due observance. So We gave the ones who believed among them their reward, but many of them are defiantly disobedient
Verse 5727 is apt to include Mary as messenger if she was in fact... Coz God could have said " then we sent following their footsteps our messengers and followed with Mary and her son and gave THEM Injeel.. " No... Gave HIM instead... Only singular... If Mary was Messenger she would have been taught by God with Torah and Gospel and Hukm etc as God claims in another verse...6612 Sahih International And Mary, the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity, so We blew into through Our angel, and she believed in the WORDS of her Lord and His scriptures and was of the devoutly obedient.
Look at the above verse.... Mary was revealed a word saying about a child.. She preserved the word and believed it and that's a revelation and that's for her personal and in fact most wanted revelation from her point of view.. Coz she can't get conceived without any information to her or even without her permission.. If not revealed she will not come to know till child grow and she will start to doubt herself and she won't have any confidence in bringing up the child.. She would wander in confusion.. And people would tease her and she would feel she was wrong.. Unless God strengthened Her with message . Even after child (Isa) is born till he grows well, she would face immense trouble from the people UNLESS the child spoke ... " He said verily I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet 1930"... Isn't that amazing... Child speaks and mother silent..(was mother a silent Prophet?) Further God planned Her birth and she guarded Her Chastity and public knew what her character was and unblemished and God gave her such high position in society and then the son has to become a prophet... If she was was a messenger she doesn't need to go away from her family hiding from them.. And when she returned back she doesn't need to say to speak to the child if she was a messenger she should speak and let people know the message what she received. No point of hiding... Coz she was not a messenger.. And No words from the author of Quran...
Chapter 19 allegedly captioned as Mary is mentioned many a prophets names and their stories including Isa.. Was Mary given that status in that chapter?...why only stick with chapter 21 ? Is it coz it's been captioned as Prophets? -
We see the phrase ? (1117 , 4612) ? correctly means ?book of Musa?, the phrase ? (1951) ? too means ?the book of Musa?, the phrase ? ? (1941) means ?the book of Ibrahim?, the phrase ? (1954) ? means ?the book of Ismail? and the phrase ? (1956) ? means ?the book of Idris?.
We also see the phrase ? (1916) ? that correctly means ?the book of Mariam?. So, Having books from God if Musa (pbuh), Ibrahim (pbuh), Ismail (pbuh) and Idris (pbuh) be acknowledged as prophets, then why not Mariam (pbuh) be acknowledged as prophetess even after having a book from God?!
-
Where and how I am twisting God's verses brother?