** Why in prophet Nuh's ship every two kinds
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1140 "Until, when Our command came, and the Oven boiled, We said, 'Embark in it two of every kind, and thy family -- except for him against whom the word has already been spoken and whosoever believes.' And there believed not with him except a few."
I would like to study and argue and have the knowledge shared... Pls comment your opinions...
Why Nuh was commanded to take two in all kind...?
Isn't there two in all the place he landed?
What is the simple purpose of taking those two kinds and leaving the rest....?
Let's explore... I think many things can be unearthed....
If there is any previous threads discussed link them as well...
God guide us... -
Peace to all
26121 as per this verse it is a sign... Whatever took place is a great sign...
If anyone consider it to be a local flood then taking from all two kinds has to be looked at...
At the same time if anyone consider it to be a deluge to the entire Earth then taking into the ship of each two kind has to be addressed entirely differently....
The verse says when the water started gushforth we commanded Nuh... So that time only Noah has to embark two kinds in the ship... When God says ALL, does it mean all? How NOAH would ever do that while water gush forth from the earth?... If we think of all kind then there are certainly immense in the current Day earth... Or else God didn't create all the two kinds that we see Now when Noah was around... After the great deluge only God created rest of the two kinds and still hopefully creating what He wills...
The option of this all two kinds could be very very limited and countable at the time of Nuh... Out of that also only two probably male and female.... Suppose cow (then only male and female) rest of the cows faced the same fate of disbelievers... Destroyed...
Limited number of two kinds is much appropriate coz Nuh is a human and he cannot do the task of loading entire two kinds of this earth possess.... That's far from reality...
If the two kinds are very limited during the time of Noah then almost all two kinds we see Now is created at a very later time while human is just still a single community and very small in number.... Animal kingdom is spread after human increased in numbers...
My cousin was asking if Noah lived hypothetically in greater India there are certain animals which belongs only to Ausies.... Kangaroo... Or kiwis for down under... So did he take kangaroo in his ship... To find kangaroo he would have to travel far .. His question may look wiered but practically all two kinds cannot be the truth....
It looks God created many things once the human is settled... It shows that science is teaching us that animal kingdom is all old than human existence... If so kullu in the verse and all two kinds is beyond Nuh's reach....
Let's see what the rest has to say... I have researched a lot in this let me bring gradually along the course of the argument...
God guide us... -
Peace jkhan.
Sometimes we make things difficult by missing the grammar or just the simple meaning of words.For example "Kullun" can mean any amount ,as long as it is the whole amount. In the case of Noah ,he was told to carry "Kullun Zawjain?" i.e from all that he had of animals.
He was not told "Kullu dabbatin,or kullu Al Hayawanat? i.e all kinds of animals.If Noah had sheep , goats , camels and cows ,then he would gather a pair (male and female of each).
Just so he can carry on with his living style at his next destination.The flood had to be local. If it was all the earth most living species would not exist today.
Noah did not have access to all the different animals living in different parts of the world from his area. Impossible.
My understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace jkhan.
Sometimes we make things difficult by missing the grammar or just the simple meaning of words.For example "Kullun" can mean any amount ,as long as it is the whole amount. In the case of Noah ,he was told to carry "Kullun Zawjain?" i.e from all that he had of animals.
He was not told "Kullu dabbatin,or kullu Al Hayawanat? i.e all kinds of animals.If Noah had sheep , goats , camels and cows ,then he would gather a pair (male and female of each).
Just so he can carry on with his living style at his next destination.The flood had to be local. If it was all the earth most living species would not exist today.
Noah did not have access to all the different animals living in different parts of the world from his area. Impossible.
My understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Peace brother GL
Good point... But let's discuss the kullu bit later...
But let me know what would be the purpose of boarding two kinds?
Suppose if Noah personally had 10 cows then only two... Right.. Of different genders...
What could be the cause of it... Why God destroyed the rest while only allowing two kinds...be it as you say whatever Noah had...
Let us be with Quran and with its grammar as well and with common sense also...
Appreciate your response...
I add one more point to support it... The commandment is only to Noah and not as "Ask those who are believers to take from the animals that they have of two kinds... ".. But only to Noah... It's totally Noah's business probably of course with the help of believers.... But only two of one kind...
God guide you... -
Slm jkhan,
Suppose if Noah personally had 10 cows then only two... Right.. Of different genders...
What could be the cause of it... Why God destroyed the rest while only allowing two kinds...be it as you say whatever Noah had...
Let us be with Quran and with its grammar as well and with common sense also...didnt research it , but if i may use common sense , i would say collateral damage .....
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Peace kaltun.
You say , quoteBut let me know what would be the purpose of boarding two kinds?
Suppose if Noah personally had 10 cows then only two... Right.. Of different genders...
What could be the cause of it... Why God destroyed the rest while only allowing two kinds...be it as you say whatever Noah had...Noah built a boat with logs and ropes. SO there was not sufficient space to take all the people and all the animals. Even the largest cruise ship would have struggled for space.
As for the rest of the animals, GOD has a plan according to GOD s knowledge. I trust GOD to resurrect them for their reward. Same as all the animals that died with Lot s people and all the animals that die by oppressions and wars and natural disasters.So two of every kind of the domesticated animals from the people that boarded the ship(Noah will give the instructions to all the believers) will be required for food and service to Noah and his people to start all over again when they disembark in a new land.
Of course this is my interpretation from what I read about Noah.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Slm GL ,
peace i didnt say that O0
but how did you know this ??
Noah built a boat with logs and ropes. SO there was not sufficient space to take all the people and all the animals. Even the largest cruise ship would have struggled for space.
again i would say collatral damage ...
maybe it's cruel to think like this way , but Allah gives life, and it's his right to do what he wants, we're just his servants ...
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Peace kaltun.
Yes , I did not invent it,. This was Noah s ark
5413
We carried him on a watercraft made of logs and ropes.5414
It ran under our watchful eyes; a reward for one who was rejected.GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Sorry brother kaltun , my earlier post was for brother khan.
Apologies.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salam! Brothers and Sisters!
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011040 (Thus it was) till, when Our commandment came to pass and the oven gushed forth water, We said Load therein two of every kind, a pair (the male and female), and thy household, save him against whom the word hath gone forth already, and those who believe. And but a few were they who believed with him._
023027 Then We inspired in him, saying Make the ship under Our eyes and Our inspiration. Then, when Our command cometh and the oven gusheth water, introduce therein of every (kind) two spouses, and thy household save him thereof against whom the Word hath already gone forth. And plead not with Me on behalf of those who have done wrong. Lo! they will be drowned.Where it is mentioned to carry animals/insects/fish etc.?
On the other hand, Kullu Zauj is used for plants, See 225, 3110, 507
May Allah bless and guide us all!
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Peace TellMeTheTruth.
In Qoran Zawj is used for humans.animals and plants.
It is obvious it is not humans.
In my opinion the indication in the verse is for animals since plants can grow from single seeds.
Animals however need at first a male and female.
From reading all the verses in context,I see it can only be animals, especially domesticated animals .
Plants can be found everywhere on earth even deserted areas, where as domesticated animals cannot.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salam GL!
I have given reference ayats which talk about plants only.
Nowhere is used a word for animals.
Why not Humans? Who were ? Only Noah's 3 sons? How then new humans came into the being? -
Slm all,
@Goodlogic
same verse on islamawekenedAnd We carried him on (ark) made of planks and nails, https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/54/13/
Sailing before Our eyes, a reward for (he) who was denied,https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/54/14/some say rope, oakum, palm- fibre, caulking ect
@TellMeTheTruth
interesting toughts , only plants? probably edible plants..but no mentioning seeds ? hmm -
Salam Kaltun!
I have reconsidered it. See below
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036036 Immaculate is He who has created all the kinds of what the earth grows, and of themselves, and of what they do not know.Salam!
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They are messengerS.
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Even among few of the members who commented here on this topic have variety of opinions, but they all believe in Quran if I am right? It indicates that quran is a book which needs to be studied a lot to come to exact meaning of what God intended? So let?s research .. that?s is the best option?
@ GL and all who consider it was local flood?..
Local flood is what you have perceived with the verses? fine.. hope your door is not closed for an alternative option such as world wide.. but my side the weight is more for worldwide? but definitely door is not shut for opinions of local?
Questions?.
In a local flood, can we expect waves like Jabal(mountain/hill/whatever) looks huge compared with something which is huge..so it?s huge.. the flood started on the earth and the ship was kept on the land and not on the sea.. no such clarifications in quran? Such a local flood and still it was a great SIGN?being a local flood a Great Sign??? To have waves like mountains how high the earth should be filled with water as well to surpass the high mountains?.
When Noah?s son told I would betake myself by reaching to a high mountain? But Noah said this day NO PROTECTION?. So, Noah?s son and others would be eying the highest of mountains around in their area (unless there is no mountain Noah?s son won?t say be take in a mountain.. so there were mountains) .. So those mountains couldn?t save anyone including Noah?s son in case anyone reached there..? So we can imagine this ship definitely has reached beyond all those altitudes by not colliding those mountains? simply well above floating?
Further when Noah said NO PROTECTION THIS DAY. then completely no protection, Noah knew what they didn?t know? Is that look like a local flood?. Can we imagine any flood which goes beyond mountains which we can call as local?
Reason for water Gush forth from / underneath the earth?? While normally and usually raining from sky?. Is the water from the sky not sufficient to flood the local flood..? let?s discuss later about the doors of sky?
While having local flood, can?t they find any living thing in the place they landed (Judi)? Is Judi an Alien place for them, if the flood was local..? Coz Judi must be known place for Noah and the people boarded with him since it was only a local flood and reached to a place bit far from their current place, Judi? Be it animal birds or plants of two kind? Won?t they find in Judi? Even if Noah took two kind of each suppose rooster and hen? If they don?t find any rooster and hen in the area Judi, can they eat the rooster? Or how long they have to wait till hen lay egg and then chicks come out.... or cow? how long Noah?s people have to wait to consume meat of cow coz they can?t slaughter neither male or female? if so what is the point of bringing two genders? even plants.. what would they do with it.. How do they immediately know genders of plant??instruction when water gush forth only board two of each kind.. Definitely even the Place Judi also under destruction unless they won?t land there with a ship? Can?t they find any plants in JUDI? plant is too far from my understanding? let?s hope it is only animal? they landed with the animals? it is far from reality that they can consume meat of any animal with what they took with? unless they found animals in Judi?.if in fact animals were there in Judi.. no point of taking them as well?..
Why local flood and under OUR EYES (God + other) the ship was built for a local flood? When God wants to destroy locally He normally evacuate the believers from there simply asking them to leave the place? example Prophet Lot and his family?. Once evacuated the place is under destruction? So Noah had very few believers with him as per Quran, they could have been ordered to leave the place with their cattle and belongings to a place far where the flood was to be taken place? But that was not the option? instead God destroyed all animals even the cattle of disbelievers and their number was majority? Even we can imagine with the destruction of Lot community, God never given such instruction to Lot saying take two kinds of each or your cattle BUT only with the believers?. Of course God knows where Lot is dispatched and the place they reach is habitable?. So Judi was not habitable, while Noah prayed to God let this ship land on a blessed place? Blessed place is not habitable void of animals and plants?
Is there any place in the quran that says that God created all the living thing before human? of course Jinn was created before human? God created the earth and heavens with purpose and human and jinn plays the major part and in fact everything for these two? So all animal are in fact required to be created even before the human community is well spread? Or that rest of the creation took place after the great Deluge? Why we need to conclude that during the period of Noah before the deluge took place there were all animals of current world has?. Based on what? or during Noah period on very limited cattle and etc were around which and god ordered to take them to keep their existence since he doesn?t want to create them anew same as human being? if Noah people is the only community around in the entire world from that only human being spread? why can?t we think same way to animal.. and rest of the animals apart from what is living in water only or even sky? Couldn?t the two kinds of each were very limited what was living around Noah?s place?
Claim of flood is local is much welcome with Quran and common sense?for further study..God guide us..
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Salam GL!
I have given reference ayats which talk about plants only.
Nowhere is used a word for animals.
Why not Humans? Who were ? Only Noah's 3 sons? How then new humans came into the being?well brother / sister...
good point... let's stick with quran... then let's stick always.. from where three sons came to picture... Did you forget that the disbelievers of Noah's community says that meanest among us believed in you... so who are those meanest? weren't they boarded in the ship since they were believers.... ? if i am not mistaken that was Noah's community who raising that question... correct me.. coz i didn't verify the verse only with memory wrote it...
Further do you say that Zawjain can never be animals? let's explore that also.. -
well brother / sister...
good point... let's stick with quran... then let's stick always.. from where three sons came to picture... Did you forget that the disbelievers of Noah's community says that meanest among us believed in you... so who are those meanest? weren't they boarded in the ship since they were believers.... ? if i am not mistaken that was Noah's community who raising that question... correct me.. coz i didn't verify the verse only with memory wrote it...
Further do you say that Zawjain can never be animals? let's explore that also..peace
since i didn't verify earlier.. i verified now.. it is verse 1127 and further 2915 also speak of companions (ashab) ... these two verses are sufficient to prove that with Noah not only his immediate family but considerable number of believers were around and they should definitely would have been in the ship... but always majority is doomed ... -
Salam!
Have you ever checked it? Hope it would be helpful
https//www.defendingthechristianfaith.org/noah-flood-stories-worldwide.html