Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
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Dear Jkhan!
Can you see that there is used twice in 2729? Isn't it the start of two (02) statements?
There are 19 Ayats, which start with this word e.g., 1699, 2072, 21110, 23109, 26220, 2730, 3781, 37111, 37132, 5677, 33175, and more.Peace!
Yes dear... Inna'hu used twice.... But other one is Wa'inna'hu.....
Difference is she didn't use a word like IT READS.. but she said " And Verily it.. And then the letter..
The initial innahu is just verily It / Lo! It from Suleiman.
So if we think in a real scenario.. We can imagine the structure of the verse that letter starts with bismillah... Just saying verily it is from Suleiman and cannot read out.. Normal way is to say.. It reads.. It says.. Or like the Quran says.. "And it is" then the original letter.. In my understanding.. Hope u have to something otherwise..BTW why Sulaiman should write a letter with word Wa'inna'hu? Since Sulaiman is the initiator of the whole process by secretly spying on her.. If Sheba wrote first then probably a continuation... But Sulaiman started everything... And what could be best rather than starting "in the name of God", .. Even Noah said 1141 embark in the ark 'In the name Allah"
I am afraid... Am I dragging your topic bit off road...
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Dear Jkhan, Salam!
Simply, if you are right then where Ibrahim left his progeny or (al-Bayt) which was built by Ibrahim and Ismael is not AMAH because Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his nation was living near AMAH and Arabs or Muhammad (peace be upon him) are not from the progeny of Ismael
Right?
BTW, please note that Al-Kitab is singular. What was ( (8719?
Peace to all!
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Salam!
Nothing tell that the letter started with bismillah either. Give your proof.
Note there are 22 Ayats which start with Wa Innahu e.g., 26192, 26193, 2777, 434, and more.Peace!
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BTW why Sulaiman should write a letter with word Wa'inna'hu? Since Sulaiman is the initiator of the whole process by secretly spying on her.. If Sheba wrote first then probably a continuation... But Sulaiman started everything... And what could be best rather than starting "in the name of God", .. Even Noah said 1141 embark in the ark 'In the name Allah"
I am afraid... Am I dragging your topic bit off road...
I have told at the end of my first post that Suleiman quoted an Ayah or message of Allah in his letter.
Secondly, Noah said as follows
011041 And he said Embark therein! Pleasure of Allah starts/runs it and stops/anchors it. Lo! my Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
Would you please care to read my initial post again?Peace!
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Salam!
Nothing tell that the letter started with bismillah either. Give your proof.
Note there are 22 Ayats which start with Wa Innahu e.g., 26192, 26193, 2777, 434, and more.Peace!
Yes dear ... I agree with u... nothing confirms that letter commence with bismillah, but just assumption looking at the tone of the verse ... Same we can't say that letter start with Wa'inna'hu... God knows best....
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I have told at the end of my first post that Suleiman quoted an Ayah or message of Allah in his letter.
Secondly, Noah said as follows
011041 And he said Embark therein! Pleasure of Allah starts/runs it and stops/anchors it. Lo! my Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
Would you please care to read my initial post again?Peace!
Yes.. Instead of in the name of pleasure of Allah ..you are using... It's fine... But.. Point to note is NOAH used bismillah to start with... With the pleasure of Allah... What's wrong with it if Ism = pleasure...
I have no objection if it fits... Meaning perfectly fits... -
Dear Jkhan, Salam!
Simply, if you are right then where Ibrahim left his progeny or (al-Bayt) which was built by Ibrahim and Ismael is not AMAH because Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his nation was living near AMAH and Arabs or Muhammad (peace be upon him) are not from the progeny of Ismael
Right?
BTW, please note that Al-Kitab is singular. What was ( (8719?
Peace to all!
Peace TMTT...
Yes we are stepping into one of the key thresholds.. .. Al masjid Al haram...
Let's take one at a time... Gradually develop if you keep patient with the subject... In sha Allah...
First let me know...- what is you current opinion where Ismail lived and what language he spoke?
- where is Al masjid Al Haram now situated?
- Where Mohamed lived?
For all the above if your answer is Yes Macca and arabic was Ismail's language....
Then pls quote verses and bring other proofs like hints through QURAN.. Remember Macca is only once in Quran....
And based on that let's march forward the discourse... I asked them coz it seems you have a point to prove and you seems bit confident what you are up to. ...
Let's hope this dialogue would help whoever reads it.. So let's stick with Quran direct verses and hints and clues.. In sha Allah you will find me patient..... It would take many a days depending on the weight of argument.... Let's bring the truth with Quran with evidences and nature....
BTW suhufi Ibrahim wa' musa ... Yes... Both were given books... But Ibrahim's book missing... History missing... Apart from what Allah says in the book
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Salam Jkhan!
You and I may be right because the meaning perfectly fits but the problem or the question is Why translations/interpretations have been imposed on nations for around 1400 years or so? Why we were told that do not read Quran only coz you will get astrayed. Even the Quran Only believers who deny Hadith because it was written after many years of the prophet's death why they have much emphasis on Grammar which is also a later development.
See Kitab-Al-Ayn was the very first dictionary of Arabic language (some say it was the very first dictionary of any language) while it had a totally different alphabet arrangement. Why it all was changed through LUGHAT/Dictionaries, Hadith and so-called Grammar?
Why it is made hard for us to see the truth? When we will be able to see things as they are?If Quran is for all then everyone should be able to understand it but we do not use our eyes/sight, ears/hearing and the hearts/intellect. We always try to follow someone else because we do not do our own research. There are millions of us who utter/repeat Allah's name day and night but do not try to achieve the pleasure of Allah. That is why we are not being guided as the case should be.
May Allah bless and guide us all!
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Peace TMTT...
Yes we are stepping into one of the key thresholds.. .. Al masjid Al haram...
Let's take one at a time... Gradually develop if you keep patient with the subject... In sha Allah...
First let me know...- what is you current opinion where Ismail lived and what language he spoke?
- where is Al masjid Al Haram now situated?
- Where Mohamed lived?
For all the above if your answer is Yes Macca and arabic was Ismail's language....
Then pls quote verses and bring other proofs like hints through QURAN.. Remember Macca is only once in Quran....
And based on that let's march forward the discourse... I asked them coz it seems you have a point to prove and you seems bit confident what you are up to. ...
Let's hope this dialogue would help whoever reads it.. So let's stick with Quran direct verses and hints and clues.. In sha Allah you will find me patient..... It would take many a days depending on the weight of argument.... Let's bring the truth with Quran with evidences and nature....
BTW suhufi Ibrahim wa' musa ... Yes... Both were given books... But Ibrahim's book missing... History missing... Apart from what Allah says in the book
Right! Ibrahim was neither Jew nor Christian . When Allah tells what other people said then it does not mean that other people had knowledge or they were saying the truth.
Since Allah has sent messengers in every town and all messengers followed Allah's inspirations then the Book cannot be different . However, difference of language is not counted because every nation/town/people have their own language .Yes! we really need to ponder upon the message without any bias, sect or influence.
May Allah bless and guide us all!
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Salam Jkhan!
You and I may be right because the meaning perfectly fits but the problem or the question is Why translations/interpretations have been imposed on nations for around 1400 years or so? Why we were told that do not read Quran only coz you will get astrayed. Even the Quran Only believers who deny Hadith because it was written after many years of the prophet's death why they have much emphasis on Grammar which is also a later development.
See Kitab-Al-Ayn was the very first dictionary of Arabic language (some say it was the very first dictionary of any language) while it had a totally different alphabet arrangement. Why it all was changed through LUGHAT/Dictionaries, Hadith and so-called Grammar?
Why it is made hard for us to see the truth? When we will be able to see things as they are?If Quran is for all then everyone should be able to understand it but we do not use our eyes/sight, ears/hearing and the hearts/intellect. We always try to follow someone else because we do not do our own research. There are millions of us who utter/repeat Allah's name day and night but do not try to achieve the pleasure of Allah. That is why we are not being guided as the case should be.
May Allah bless and guide us all!
Peace...
We can't get answers to all these Whys.... Let's live with truth and guidance of God... And just simply neglect those who concoct stories.... Don't forget iblees is alive... Satans are looking at us... All their life they will do what they can do.... Be patient... -
Peace TMTT...
Yes we are stepping into one of the key thresholds.. .. Al masjid Al haram...
Let's take one at a time... Gradually develop if you keep patient with the subject... In sha Allah...
First let me know...- what is you current opinion where Ismail lived and what language he spoke?
- where is Al masjid Al Haram now situated?
- Where Mohamed lived?
For all the above if your answer is Yes Macca and arabic was Ismail's language....
Then pls quote verses and bring other proofs like hints through QURAN.. Remember Macca is only once in Quran....
And based on that let's march forward the discourse... I asked them coz it seems you have a point to prove and you seems bit confident what you are up to. ...
Let's hope this dialogue would help whoever reads it.. So let's stick with Quran direct verses and hints and clues.. In sha Allah you will find me patient..... It would take many a days depending on the weight of argument.... Let's bring the truth with Quran with evidences and nature....
Salam brother Jkhan!
Sorry for a delayed response! You have asked me three questions. I will try to answer one by one- what is you current opinion where Ismail lived and what language he spoke?
My opinion does not count until and unless it is supported by AQ. Regarding Ismael, we have a little knowledge as you can see in below Ayats
Allah tells that Ibrahim said as follows
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?All praise for Allah the one who gifted to/for me on the old age, Ismael and Ishaaq. Indeed my Lord surely Ever-Listening the call/prayer.?
This ayah tells that Ismael and Ishaaq both were gifted in response to a call/prayer. Where is that dua? {see Surah 3783-112}
037100 My Lord! Vouchsafe me of the righteous.
037101 So We gave him tidings of a gentle son.
Ishaaq was gifted later, see037112 And we gave him tidings of the birth of Isaac, a prophet of the righteous.
037113 And We blessed him and Isaac. And of their seed are some who do good, and some who plainly wrong themselves.
We may not know that what was Ismael?s language but we may know what he said or did. For example Allah made a promise with both Ibrahim and Ismail {2124-125}
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And Ibrahim called/prayed as follows
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And Ibrahim and Ismael both called/prayed as follows
_See also
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019054 And make mention in the Scripture of Ishmael. Lo! he was a keeper of his promise, and he was a messenger (of Allah), a prophet.019055 He enjoined upon his people worship and almsgiving, and was acceptable in the sight of his Lord.
I have sent a PM to you. Don't know if it reached you or not.
Peace!
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Salam brother Jkhan!
Sorry for a delayed response! You have asked me three questions. I will try to answer one by one- what is you current opinion where Ismail lived and what language he spoke?
My opinion does not count until and unless it is supported by AQ. Regarding Ismael, we have a little knowledge as you can see in below Ayats
Allah tells that Ibrahim said as follows
_
?All praise for Allah the one who gifted to/for me on the old age, Ismael and Ishaaq. Indeed my Lord surely Ever-Listening the call/prayer.?
This ayah tells that Ismael and Ishaaq both were gifted in response to a call/prayer. Where is that dua? {see Surah 3783-112}
037100 My Lord! Vouchsafe me of the righteous.
037101 So We gave him tidings of a gentle son.
Ishaaq was gifted later, see037112 And we gave him tidings of the birth of Isaac, a prophet of the righteous.
037113 And We blessed him and Isaac. And of their seed are some who do good, and some who plainly wrong themselves.
We may not know that what was Ismael?s language but we may know what he said or did. For example Allah made a promise with both Ibrahim and Ismail {2124-125}
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And Ibrahim called/prayed as follows
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And Ibrahim and Ismael both called/prayed as follows
_See also
_
019054 And make mention in the Scripture of Ishmael. Lo! he was a keeper of his promise, and he was a messenger (of Allah), a prophet.019055 He enjoined upon his people worship and almsgiving, and was acceptable in the sight of his Lord.
I have sent a PM to you. Don't know if it reached you or not.
Peace!
Peace TMTT
YES when I said your opinion I meant your understanding based on QURAN and your research on QURAN where it has not directly stated...
See as per 1955 Ismail has had his own community so he would have spoken to them in their language which is also his own language... Coz messengers are sent in the language of his community... That's Quran... So needs research... As per my research... Arabic was not a language during that old period.... Arabic is very latest language of this areas .... Had Ismail been the prophet of Arabs we can't expect that to say your ancestors not warned or verses like you were not aware of scripture or you were on the brim of hell fire... And no need to be even called Ummi....God call two groups people of the book... They lived duirng the period of Mohamed... But those people were not the real people who were actually given books.. But actually their ancestors... Just coz they were their decendants God called them as people of the book.. So same logic... Had any of the prophets were among Arabs these Arabs no need to be called ummi... Or even they don't need to claim we were not given books and not aware of it.... Ancestors are key...
- what is you current opinion where Ismail lived and what language he spoke?
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Salam JKHan!
Let's see what you are saying Ibrahim and Lut were from a nation and they had a common language. Then they left this nation and went to an area which was already blessed for nations. Now Ibrahim preached to a nation of his own language and Lut preached to a nation of his own language. Then Ismail was preaching to a nation/community of his own language and Ishaq was preaching to a nation/community of his own language. And Yousuf preached Egyptians in their language, which was his own language. And Muhammad preached his nation in their language, which was his own language.
Secondly You say Ancestors is the KEY. I believe in it.
What does 2277 say? Ibrahim is father of Mu'mineen.
Ancestors are of two type 1. Rightly guided e.g., Ibrahim and 2. Astrayed e.g. father of Ibrahim . Yes this is the key. Whom you follow?
Similarily, the progeny can be and . To which progeny Arabs belonged and to which progeny People of the Book belonged? Are you among the progeny of Ibrahim?I have another question for you. Who do you think was as per Quran-based knowledge? Give reference from Quran to support your view.
NOTE I have, so far, shared what I know through Quran only and have not tried to mix my knowledge about Science, Philosophy, History or Religion (ب. Nor have I given examples from dictionaries or grammar. I have shared translations of Pickthal however, I do not agree to the meaning of some words in this translation. This is just for reference.
Peace!
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- Where is Al Masjid Al Haram now situated?
This one is hard to answer. However, I will try to answer it. First let?s see what is ?The House? in connection with your first question.
If you refer to and you may notice that and both are mentioned {1435-41}. Those who say that Ismael was left near it by Ibrahim - may be wrong. Both were left there, is OK with me. The reason is is also mentioned in 2124 (above) where Allah said that my promise does not reach .
This is for sure that Ibrahim and Ismael made/built and not . Since Ismael was elder while Ishaq was not yet born or not yet able to walk and work with his father and brother. Ibrahim and his family (wife) were addressed as (i.e., members of The House) even before the birth of Ishaq. See 1173. This simply tells that 1435-41 address a later event. So, the House was the house where Ibrahim lived with his family/wife. And it was also the or declared as it. And Ibrahim left some of his progeny near it while this land was i.e., without Cultivation. It does not necessarily mean (a desert). Moreover, it was in the same where Ibrahim lived. Just not the same house, where Ibrahim lived with his wife. See 1435 where the word ?sons? is used. The same house is also called (Your House which/who has prohibited/forbidden/restricted (something) or (My House/Allah?s House(. This House was open for mankind/people to stay or visit and it worked as a community centre/an Inn/a fort. It was a peaceful place and the city was a peaceful city. There were nations to whom members of The House preached. These people were supposed to bring fruits to the progeny of Ibrahim, Why? Do prophets need for their preaching? And How could they bring fruits to them while the land was uncultivated? Do not say that Ibrahim went around the world to call each and every nation to visit ?The House? because you cannot prove it.
To understand , we will have to understand what means. Right?
Where in whole Quran it is mentioned that Ibrahim did a or or built a
Please share your findings. Thanks!
We also need to see what does means. Do you know a connection between Ibrahim/Ismael/Ishaq with ? Please share the ayah for reference. Thanks!
I will share a detailed research on al-Masjid al-Haram leter In Sha Allah!Peace!
- Where is Al Masjid Al Haram now situated?
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Peace TMTT
God call two groups people of the book... They lived duirng the period of Mohamed... But those people were not the real people who were actually given books.. But actually their ancestors... Just coz they were their decendants God called them as people of the book.. So same logic... Had any of the prophets were among Arabs these Arabs no need to be called ummi... Or even they don't need to claim we were not given books and not aware of it.... Ancestors are key...
These two groups were those who called themselves and/or . These were two groups among the People of The Book. Are you and me not among the People of The Book? Yet we are Ummi coz we have no knowledge of the Book although we have the Book with us and we read it almost daily (some do it by twisting their tongues) and write it with our own hands in these forums and say it is from AQ.
Peace!
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Salam JKHan!
Let's see what you are saying Ibrahim and Lut were from a nation and they had a common language. Then they left this nation and went to an area which was already blessed for nations. Now Ibrahim preached to a nation of his own language and Lut preached to a nation of his own language. Then Ismail was preaching to a nation/community of his own language and Ishaq was preaching to a nation/community of his own language. And Yousuf preached Egyptians in their language, which was his own language. And Muhammad preached his nation in their language, which was his own language.
Secondly You say Ancestors is the KEY. I believe in it.
What does 2277 say? Ibrahim is father of Mu'mineen.
Ancestors are of two type 1. Rightly guided e.g., Ibrahim and 2. Astrayed e.g. father of Ibrahim . Yes this is the key. Whom you follow?
Similarily, the progeny can be and . To which progeny Arabs belonged and to which progeny People of the Book belonged? Are you among the progeny of Ibrahim?I have another question for you. Who do you think was as per Quran-based knowledge? Give reference from Quran to support your view.
NOTE I have, so far, shared what I know through Quran only and have not tried to mix my knowledge about Science, Philosophy, History or Religion (ب. Nor have I given examples from dictionaries or grammar. I have shared translations of Pickthal however, I do not agree to the meaning of some words in this translation. This is just for reference.
Peace!
Peace... TMTT
Tbh.... Your research is very impressive....
You were referring languages of Lut Ibrahim and so on... There we come to a good point.. That's why I say Arabic is a new language.... These key figures lived almost very close proximity and they spoke the very common language of that era for this area.. As I indicated in one my earlier thread in this topic... It is impossible that Ibrahim Lot Ishhaq, Ismail etc or asbath spoke different language.. Coz it seems there was only one main language for this area but Arabic was not formed....
Take the example of Musa he vanished from king pharoa and settled for ages in another place and he spoke to them clearly and there were no hint of language barriers.... Even as you claim Lot and Ibrahim initially probably shifted after Ibrahim was put in fire to another place where they didn't find any language barricade.... Even Yousuf from his badu life to city life he didn't face any language issues... These glaring proofs shows that there was a very accepted language in this area which was spoken by people commonly... Like we see Now arabic... But there could have been small differences in the way they spoke... Thats expected... But all within the grasp of understanding....
As you may be aware... The Thorah is not actually book of Musa but a vast collection of suhuf of many isrelete prophets from Musa till Isa... So all those prophets would have spoken the same language of what Musa spoke coz in the end the final book Torah is in one language of various prophets .... Arabic formed at a very later stage and spread all over and eradicated the main source... But still main source remains as a sign...To your question of Israeel... No one can answer this to be precise....coz God never says with borders.... But with only research of indirect verses you have to deduce... Look....
When Musa claim deliver the children of Isreal from Pharoa . We can imagine that where king pharoa lived is not Isreal... And when Musa vanished from one place to Midyan we can imagine that also not part of isreal coz it was not called as isreal... And lot lived near Dead Sea as per the evidences and the name of Luths lake... But this area is not part of isreal in anywhere in the book.... And Mohamed lived not far from Lot or Isreal as per Quranic indicative verses... Nabatean area is very much within the reality... And Ibrahim lived not far from Lot.. And he was not Jew or Christians.. No such group was even instituted... So if you keep away all these areas and you can find a place surrounded to this area is Isreal.... It's not far from current Day isreal and phalasten and even part of Lebanon and Jordan... But only it is my opinion but not merely from my head but with Quran's pattern of verses... There must be still a reason God kept alive the name of isreal and the language being spoken out there... As per my understanding there is still karate type of jews who speak older version of Hebrew.. All God will... If God says Isreal is well kept above other nations at least in the past and the favors furnished to them... Then we can imagine that that nation cannot be eradicated by any force... God's preference will always remain... God knows best... -
- Where is Al Masjid Al Haram now situated?
This one is hard to answer. However, I will try to answer it. First let?s see what is ?The House? in connection with your first question.
If you refer to and you may notice that and both are mentioned {1435-41}. Those who say that Ismael was left near it by Ibrahim - may be wrong. Both were left there, is OK with me. The reason is is also mentioned in 2124 (above) where Allah said that my promise does not reach .
This is for sure that Ibrahim and Ismael made/built and not . Since Ismael was elder while Ishaq was not yet born or not yet able to walk and work with his father and brother. Ibrahim and his family (wife) were addressed as (i.e., members of The House) even before the birth of Ishaq. See 1173. This simply tells that 1435-41 address a later event. So, the House was the house where Ibrahim lived with his family/wife. And it was also the or declared as it. And Ibrahim left some of his progeny near it while this land was i.e., without Cultivation. It does not necessarily mean (a desert). Moreover, it was in the same where Ibrahim lived. Just not the same house, where Ibrahim lived with his wife. See 1435 where the word ?sons? is used. The same house is also called (Your House which/who has prohibited/forbidden/restricted (something) or (My House/Allah?s House(. This House was open for mankind/people to stay or visit and it worked as a community centre/an Inn/a fort. It was a peaceful place and the city was a peaceful city. There were nations to whom members of The House preached. These people were supposed to bring fruits to the progeny of Ibrahim, Why? Do prophets need for their preaching? And How could they bring fruits to them while the land was uncultivated? Do not say that Ibrahim went around the world to call each and every nation to visit ?The House? because you cannot prove it.
To understand , we will have to understand what means. Right?
Where in whole Quran it is mentioned that Ibrahim did a or or built a
Please share your findings. Thanks!
We also need to see what does means. Do you know a connection between Ibrahim/Ismael/Ishaq with ? Please share the ayah for reference. Thanks!
I will share a detailed research on al-Masjid al-Haram leter In Sha Allah!Peace!
Where masjid Al Haram is not at all important not... Is it? It won't make any difference in our belief.... But what is accepted now as in Makka is far from reality... That's impossible.....
There is nothing to build masjid Al Haram... Coz its not a building... It's a natural God gifted Sanctuary and blessed as well...
Look...even before Ibrahim build the bait probably in the premises of masjid Al haram ( within the area of the sanctuary) Ibrahim call it a city.. It was not a desert isolated area which was given by Abraham to build the house... It was a well populated place and left his progeny... And we can assume the language to be same... It could be major Petra.... But it doesn't mean Ibrahim or Ismail was Arab.... They lived in the same area may be Mohamed lived but language is not Arabic... So they were a different community but lived at very ancient time with different languages and cultures... - Where is Al Masjid Al Haram now situated?
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1955 Ismail has had his own community so he would have spoken to them in their language which is also his own language... Coz messengers are sent in the language of his community...
peace, different words used; see examples...
144 in tongue qawmihi/people his
1955 directed ahlahu/family his
https//i.postimg.cc/CL75TB7C/ch28v24-32.jpg
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peace, different words used; see examples...
144 in tongue qawmihi/people his
1955 directed ahlahu/family his
https//i.postimg.cc/CL75TB7C/ch28v24-32.jpg
Salam NW....
What's your point here by highlighting .... What you try to say... Would u pls be elaborate manifestly....
Qa'um is people.....
Ahla is also people and family (be it someone's own or as community)So what's point.....
But AALA is never mere people.... But followers of something or someone whether good or bad.... But not just merely people like qa'umGod guide us
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Salam Jkhan!
Brother NW wants to say that Ismael was not preaching to a nation. He was preaching to his household only.
Peace!