Another view on the polygamy issue
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AsalamuAlaykum,
I know this had been debated quite a bit on the forum but I've read an article and I want to know what other Arabic speakers make of it.
http//quransmessage.com/articles/four%20wives%20FM3.htm
Please remove or move the thread if necessary.
Thanks.
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Nowhere in the Qur'an is a prohibition of poligamy, eithe masculine or feminine.
BUT
it is clear from the whole of qur'an and more particularly from aya 24.32 that marriage, common marriage, is monogamous. But poligamy is not prohibited, may be to leave some leeway to societies where demography is badley unbalanced for whatever reasons, or may be particular circumstances make more humane to not enforce stingently monogamy, be it masculine or feminine.
As to 4.3. There is nothing in it commending any number of simultaneous wives, rather it is not talking about wives but about marriages. It is addressin believers as a society, it is telling them to make it possible marriage for the mothers of orphans, but it is not telling any particular man to marry more than one wife at time, but rather the whole community to make it possible for those who may want to marry the mothers of orphans, but might lack the means, to make it possible as many marriages as it can afford, one, two, three, not of the same man but of any man willing to marry any such woman with orphan children.
That was what was done and covered all over the world with lies in Ghaza some time ago. A collective marriage took place of more than a hundred lone mothers with children arranged through common effort. There was a picture distributed by islamophobes, where the bridegrooms were shown hand by hand with girl children and it was discriebed as a pedophile wedding. The truth was it was a collective marriage of adult women, -so much adult that they already had their own children with different ages- with adult men.
Unfortunately, muslims of different views still cling to fairy tales and clishees making a circus of qur'anic injunctions and wisdom. Islamophobia is wrong an rampan, but the aid it is given by some "muslims" is not negligible. May be the world does not deserve the Qur'an nor "muslims" deserve it. What they do with it many times is utterly depressing. There is the temptation of asking why should God bother with such self-pittying and lazy lot?
That is not to say that islamophobes are not just as bad or worse lot. Actually it does not matter, they strive for the same thing to hell with truth!
Salaam
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Salam!
I have 2 questions to all brothers and sisters on this forum
- What single word for 'widow' is used in AQ?
- Where this word is used in surah 4?
Peace!
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Here is not such a word in Qur'an that I can remember. There is like in ayas
24.32 and 4.127qhich are those who do not have a consort, be they women or men, unmarried or widowed, or anything else.
and in 4.127, recalling 4.3 it is spoken of the "orphans of (of og belonging) the women", clearly it is not about widows pers se but rather about wny women who find themselves alone with their children, be they wiows, single, abandoned or whatever. Very eloquent the Qur'an, too much for some mentalities.
Salaam
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Wa alaykum asalam,
There is a verse somewhere in the Qur'an which says to marry the single amongst you- something along those lines...this makes me wonder if polygamy is just for men who intend to marry mothers of orphans (or apparently also widowed, abandoned etc.) and for nobody else since it should be the single we should marry....so if a woman for example should marry someone single, she shouldn't in this case intend to marry an already married man. Besides, most women who are the '1st wife' wouldn't agree anyway so if the husband were to go against her wishes- this would show lack of empathy and kindness towards her which a loving husband would not want to do.
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Here is not such a word in Qur'an that I can remember. There is like in ayas
24.32 and 4.127qhich are those who do not have a consort, be they women or men, unmarried or widowed, or anything else.
and in 4.127, recalling 4.3 it is spoken of the "orphans of (of og belonging) the women", clearly it is not about widows pers se but rather about wny women who find themselves alone with their children, be they wiows, single, abandoned or whatever. Very eloquent the Qur'an, too much for some mentalities.
Salaam
Salam!
Appreciate your answer. Just another question. What does means in 2432?
Peace! -
Wa alaykum asalam,
There is a verse somewhere in the Qur'an which says to marry the single amongst you- something along those lines...this makes me wonder if polygamy is just for men who intend to marry mothers of orphans (or apparently also widowed, abandoned etc.) and for nobody else since it should be the single we should marry....so if a woman for example should marry someone single, she shouldn't in this case intend to marry an already married man. Besides, most women who are the '1st wife' wouldn't agree anyway so if the husband were to go against her wishes- this would show lack of empathy and kindness towards her which a loving husband would not want to do.
Salam!
Thank you for the answer. I think you are also referring to 2432 here.
Another question for you. Do you know who is the audience in 41?
Peace! -
Here is not such a word in Qur'an that I can remember. There is like in ayas
24.32 and 4.127qhich are those who do not have a consort, be they women or men, unmarried or widowed, or anything else.
and in 4.127, recalling 4.3 it is spoken of the "orphans of (of og belonging) the women", clearly it is not about widows pers se but rather about wny women who find themselves alone with their children, be they wiows, single, abandoned or whatever. Very eloquent the Qur'an, too much for some mentalities.
Salaam
Salam again sister!!
4127 is talking about orphan girls and what is recited in the book already. How can you relate it with 43? And where is mothers with orphans are mentioned in 43?
Peace! -
What? What?
Where have you learnt your Arabic, qura'nic grammar. Look at it again. That is the most basic stuff. If you take that there is no use in going into anything further.
And just as a side note if they are nisaa' they cannot be orphans, nisaa' are ful grown women, not minor girls.
This is just a sample of how it has been made a travesti of Qur'an.
I am too shocked that anybody could come up with that seriously. Never mind. Just look at the grammar if you really care, if not of course, pick whatver suits you. Most people always do that, particularly where Qur'an s concerned. Just like a supermarket.
Salaam
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Wa alaykum asalam,
There is a verse somewhere in the Qur'an which says to marry the single amongst you- something along those lines...this makes me wonder if polygamy is just for men who intend to marry mothers of orphans (or apparently also widowed, abandoned etc.) and for nobody else since it should be the single we should marry....so if a woman for example should marry someone single, she shouldn't in this case intend to marry an already married man. Besides, most women who are the '1st wife' wouldn't agree anyway so if the husband were to go against her wishes- this would show lack of empathy and kindness towards her which a loving husband would not want to do.
It is aya 24.32 that says to marry the singles, that is procure the marriage of the singles. I do not think that it means to allow marriage onlyto those who are single, but that that is a priority, to marry de singles, because if after marrying all the singles, of one sex, there are still singles of the other sex, we do have a problem if for those singles marriage is a real need. Some people can lead a single life happily others cannot. In the same way some people of either sex could deal with a poligamous marriage, either being the single one of his or her sex, or being one fo the consorts of that one, and other people could not bear that.
I think that the Qur'an does not prohibit that but it does set priorities and what should be the average. On the other hand I think one priority of Qur'an is to give people as much leeway to find their own arragements as possible, put in simple words freedom providad you are strictly just and fair. That is why it sets limits but does not set millions of rules. Of course a first condition for freedom is to have some judgement an seense of responsibility. Responsibility goes with freedom. And also the responsibility of knowing ourselves and not undertaking more burdens than we can answer for.
Salaam
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What? What?
Where have you learnt your Arabic, qura'nic grammar. Look at it again. That is the most basic stuff. If you take that there is no use in going into anything further.
And just as a side note if they are nisaa' they cannot be orphans, nisaa' are ful grown women, not minor girls.
This is just a sample of how it has been made a travesti of Qur'an.
I am too shocked that anybody could come up with that seriously. Never mind. Just look at the grammar if you really care, if not of course, pick whatver suits you. Most people always do that, particularly where Qur'an s concerned. Just like a supermarket.
Salaam
Salam sister!
I do not understand why are you shocked. Below is the translation of 4127
4127And, (O Prophet,) people ask about your edict on matters concerning (orphan) women . Say ?Allah ordains you in their case and the commandment (already) being communicated to you in the holy Book (also) pertains to those orphan women whom you deny (the rights) which have been prescribed for themAnd (in order to take their assets into possession) you want to marry themIn addition to that, there is (also a decree) on affairs concerning helpless minor children, that stick to justice in matters of orphansAnd whatever good you do, Allah is indeed Well Aware of that.
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You do seem to manahe somhow with Arabic, look into the Arabic, the trnaslation is an arrangement so that ny hook or crook it fits certain previous assumptions of the translator, go to the Arabic.
You have been asking about the Arabic so why do you now bring me as proof a translation in english. I know there are some translations like tht but it only goes to show the depths of disdain for Qur'an where it does not fit previous assumptions, that even the most plain, beginners grammar is trampled on. It is hard to believe, but it is so.
Salaam
Salaam
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Salam sister huruf!
Please excuse but I still am confused. However I will put this ayah in Arabic section and see what is wong with my understanding.
Peace! -
Nowhere in the Qur'an is a prohibition of poligamy, eithe masculine or feminine.
BUT
it is clear from the whole of qur'an and more particularly from aya 24.32 that marriage, common marriage, is monogamous. But poligamy is not prohibited, may be to leave some leeway to societies where demography is badley unbalanced for whatever reasons, or may be particular circumstances make more humane to not enforce stingently monogamy, be it masculine or feminine.
As to 4.3. There is nothing in it commending any number of simultaneous wives, rather it is not talking about wives but about marriages. It is addressin believers as a society, it is telling them to make it possible marriage for the mothers of orphans, but it is not telling any particular man to marry more than one wife at time, but rather the whole community to make it possible for those who may want to marry the mothers of orphans, but might lack the means, to make it possible as many marriages as it can afford, one, two, three, not of the same man but of any man willing to marry any such woman with orphan children.
That was what was done and covered all over the world with lies in Ghaza some time ago. A collective marriage took place of more than a hundred lone mothers with children arranged through common effort. There was a picture distributed by islamophobes, where the bridegrooms were shown hand by hand with girl children and it was discriebed as a pedophile wedding. The truth was it was a collective marriage of adult women, -so much adult that they already had their own children with different ages- with adult men.
Unfortunately, muslims of different views still cling to fairy tales and clishees making a circus of qur'anic injunctions and wisdom. Islamophobia is wrong an rampan, but the aid it is given by some "muslims" is not negligible. May be the world does not deserve the Qur'an nor "muslims" deserve it. What they do with it many times is utterly depressing. There is the temptation of asking why should God bother with such self-pittying and lazy lot?
That is not to say that islamophobes are not just as bad or worse lot. Actually it does not matter, they strive for the same thing to hell with truth!
Salaam
Salaam Huruf,
http//quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=795.0
Here's another one from Joseph Islam where he answers a question and explains the impermissibility of a woman having more than one husband at a time.
Why do you think the verse is about mothers of orphans and not the orphans themselves? Could it be interpreted as women from the orphans? Or would that be grammatically incorrect?
Allah knows best.
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Why do you think the verse is about mothers of orphans and not the orphans themselves?
peace -- definition is to the age of marriage; then no longer considered as such.
46 and test ye of l-yatm/the bereaved (orphaned) until when reach they of the marriage so if perceive you among them rational of so deliver ye of to them wealth theirs ...
then at marriageable age referred thus ...
1813 fit'yatun/young men
2433 fatayatikum/maidens yours
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peace -- definition is to the age of marriage; then no longer considered as such.
46 وابتلوا and test ye of الىتمى l-yatāmā/the bereaved (orphaned) حتى until اذا when بلغوا reach they of النكاح the marriage فان so if انستم perceive you منهم among them رشدا rational of فادفعوا so deliver ye of الىهم to them امولهم wealth theirs ...
Yes but I mean the women from within the orphans. Would that make sense?
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Yes but I mean the women from within the orphans. Would that make sense?
which verse? it's bereaved includes fatherless children with/without mother; cannot marry underage.
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which verse? it's bereaved includes fatherless children with/without mother; cannot marry underage.
Verse 43. Does the word for orphans only include orphan children or can it include orphan women/men?
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Verse 43. Does the word for orphans only include orphan children or can it include orphan women/men?
43 l-yatm/the bereaved (mothers with underage children i.e. boys and/or girls)
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43 الىتمى l-yatāmā/the bereaved (mothers with underage children i.e. boys and/or girls)
Okay, thanks )