PLEASE DON'T RUN AWAY
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Peace Wakas,
I actually think the understanding of slw on the forum is more unified than it seems.
But you said yourself the following in the thread http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3361
Some regular members here, and often new members, still believe salat=prayer, perhaps not identical to the traditional method but similar to it.
Theres the problem. And some kind of effort needs to be made to address it.
Out of curiousity, what articles are you referring to on this site that promote traditional-style prayer?
None promote the traditional-style prayer but there are definitely residues of hadiths resulting in prostration towards a physical direction, for example in the article by our man Layth (http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.htm), which says things like
Individuals or groups holding the Salat must conform to a unifying direction which is facedThis feature can still be witnessed in the construction of todays temples which are designed with the place for Salat oriented in a specific direction.
The normal position is for Salat to be carried out while stationary and standing.
Once the recital period is complete, the ending phase of the Salat is marked by a physical prostration to the ground
As well as this, the section What is Difference between Islam and Sunni or Shia faiths? on the main page of this website makes no mention of salat, let alone rejection of physical prostration in a physical direction, which sectarians are happy about, thinking we cant explain it without hadith books thats why we are hiding it. This is the biggest problem somebody faces when they come across God alone, and on this website We need to be open about it and show the world that were not freaked out by this issue, and we can openly expose the truths of physical ritual worship. The truth is that we are not unified on the issue of salat thats why no mention is made of it on the main page of this site, if we were unified, then we would be just as proud of non physical salat as we are of abolishing Slavery, fasting during Menstruation. We should be equally as proud to say, abolishing of idols in Arabia instead of making something like a washing powder advert and saying How can anyone do that without having to go around fishing about in the articles forum of free-minds to decide on who to believe on the topic of salat? On top of that, no link is provided to Aidid Safars book in the articles section of the books section it is accepted that sometimes he goes over the top with redefining, but the principles are the truth are they not? Even if we are unified in the forum, we need to be unified on the rest of free-minds, the areas of the website that the majority of visitors see, so that they can see that we are unified, and it is easier for them to see the truth.
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peace Natu,
I said "Some regular members here, and often new members..."
Some doesn't imply significant or majority proportion. And as for new members, we will always have that, so this is to be expected.
I do not regard the article (by Br. Layth) you referenced as a "traditional-style prayer" article, just as you acknowledged. Thus, in my mind, there are none such articles on this site.
The thread of mine that you referenced only contained one member who responded to the challenge.
Wakas
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All I'm saying is that the salat issue is still a bit iffy, we need to get together and decide whether there is physical prostration towards a physical direction or not - that is the crucial difference. Once we're through that, I think we should be able to put up something about salat on the main page of the website for all sectarians to see that we're not running away from the issue and making infinite different interpretations o it. Do you get me?
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Dear Ayman
Do you mean that
- Salli Ala
and - Aqim el Salah
mean the same thing?
I understand the first to mean "support, encourage" and the second as "observe the contact prayer".
Peace,
Edip - Salli Ala
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Peace be upon you Natu,
Thanks again for the reminder! Many people need to realize that the VERY FIRST response of those in "hell" is "we were not of those aho maintained the process(salaat)! Salaat is the process of enlightenment.
Looks like you were successful in drawing out Edip to this thread! WOW!
This is good, maybe we can clear this matter up now. -
Peace,
Congratulations people! Edip came!
Edip, I understand that you are in support of a physical salat, I would like to kindly ask for your time to share your understanding of the verses in the Quran with those who support non-physical method.
I understand you are a busy man but I think many people have been waiting to hear from you about this topic.
Also I read you article about 'arab conspiricies...' article, I went through some of Mr Safar's work and I am impressed, I would like to hear your views on his ideas because you seemed to reject some of the concepts quite harshly at start. Mr Safar seems to have written in detail about the words and language of the Quran, just want to know whether you have seen this and would also like to see your analysis, maybe you can contribute to our understanding of 'Salat/solaa'
Peace
Nural -
Peace be upon you Edip,
Let me get the ball rolling again,
I understand the first to mean "support, encourage" and the second as "observe the contact prayer".
Lets deal with the basic verses first, that way we have a foundation to use when weighing the evidence of teh other verses in question. My first question to you is, How can "salaat" be "contact PRAYER" when the word "Du'a" is used all throughout this reading(quran) to mean Prayer/calling God?
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Peace be upon you Edip,
I guess you have chosen not to discuss this.
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Salaamun alaikum,
It is apparent that EDIP's post was directed to AYMAN and he is waiting for Ayman's answer. I think that when Ayman answers his question he will jump back in !! wink
Peace,
Tanveer
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Peace be upon you,
So if Ayman never responds we cannot have a meaningful discussion?
O well, peace to all anyway.
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Peace Edip,
Do you mean that
- Salli Ala
and - Aqim el Salah
mean the same thing?
No they don't mean exactly the same thing. One is a verb, "salli", the other is a common noun "salah". However, they do describe the same process.
I understand the first to mean "support, encourage" and the second as "observe the contact prayer".
What do you base such understanding on? "Support, encourage" is certainly not the meaning given by Classical Arabic dictionaries. Also, this meaning cannot be construed from all other locations where derivatives of the root "sly/slw" are used.
You seem to be doing exactly like Aidid who you criticized for making up meanings that have no basis in Arabic or the great reading.
Moreover, logically your understanding doesn't add up because "yusalun" in 3356 is in the continuous present tense. We know for a fact that The God's support and encouragement (whatever that means) of the prophet was not continuous (for example see Chapter 80).
PS. Thanks Natu for the reminder. )
Peace,
Ayman
- Salli Ala
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Peace be upon you all,
Looks like I found a good time to get back to the debating (hajja) proceedures whereby we put all Opinions to the test to extract the Truth.
Good response Ayman, looking foward to Edip's response.
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Peace be upon you Brother Ayman,
Thank you, its good to be back. Finally got a good , FAST connection at home. It was always I was at work , or at home with a slow connection, now I am home with a fast connection. I am very excited D
Ive been doing a lot of homework. I'm ready to start uncovering a lot of truths.
