Women as sex objects ..
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AOA
what do u guys think about women as sex objects ? is it right or wrong ? Well i dont know personally cus ok it is wrong in one way but now adays its the norm .. u cant really stop it can u ? and in a way men r seen as sex objects as well so its the same for both sexes but a bit more for women ... -
what i meant is that women are seen as showpiece items nowadays in the West and East cus if u see in the media, women have to be beautiful to come into media, they have to show cleavage etc ... i mean women are not seen as anything else .. if they are not beautiful then yeah .. doom !
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Well for you, I think it's better than you having men for sex objects
Ahem. Anyway. Let's get serious.
For normal men I think it's normal to see women as sexual objects. Then again, having this urge doesn't mean that we should go out and asking every other woman we see on the street to go to bed with us, isn't it? Restraint is an obligation. We are told to lower our gaze, so if the world doesn't, then to hell with the world.
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As a woman - what i don't get is why so many women play the game... often without even being conscious about it.
As all is about balance it seems unfortunately hard to find a balance between veil and (too much) exposure - (here i talk about Morocco)
But hey - if it has to be that way - i want more beautiful men on tv wink
Peace all,
Elke -
Hello Elke,
As a woman - what i don't get is why so many women play the game... often without even being conscious about it.
Because when you are beautiful it is easy to do -)
The Power of Beauty is in itself seductive! That is why beautiful women enjoy this Power Game, whether being conscious of it or not. We men can't help but drool over beauty -)Womens beauty has made many poets out of Men! Can we say same of Man's beauty? Only few instances... -)
As all is about balance it seems unfortunately hard to find a balance between veil and (too much) exposure - (here i talk about Morocco)
Men have always been scared of the Female Beauty thats why they had them veiled. I wonder where this fear comes from?
Yeah you are right. Balance is hard. But veil in itself can be seductive too -)
But hey - if it has to be that way - i want more beautiful men on tv wink
ElkeWell thats counts me out then -(
But as long as we can have more beautiful women like Angelina Jolie, in TV then I don't mind... -)Regards,
P.S. I wrote this in jest -)
Women as sex object is a bad thing!! erm let me just look at Angelina Poster again.... -) -
Hello Khalil, LT,
They are not all smilies, there is a wink and a sad face too !!
Wow, I never knew about this side of the spiritually advanced LT !! shock -
Hello Khalil,
what does "omg" mean?
Hello Tanveer,
Wow, I never knew about this side of the spiritually advanced LT !! shock
Spiritually Advanced? Thats nice of you to say so. Though I don't consider myself "spiritually advanced" yet nor am I "enlightened", but I would like to believe that I am on the path of spiritual advancement and perhaps one day God-willing, enlightenment too -)
Did you know that Prophet Muhammad had up to 11 wives (or more than four if you go by Scripture Alone and numberless concubines)? You would have expected that man who "encountered" God would have turned himself into a monk! I wonder why he did not?
But we all admire beauty don't we Khalil and Tanveer? Beauty always makes us smile doesn't it? And we constantly seek beauty in our art and music and in our life. Plato said that contemplation of beauty leads to "ecstasy", ecstasy in the spiritual sense -) i.e. going beyond the object of admiration to the concept of Ideal Beauty.
The artist is the creator of beautiful things.
They find beautiful meanings in beautiful things.
To them beautiful things mean only beauty.No artist desires to prove anything.
Even things that are true can be proved.No artist is ever morbid.
The artist can express everything.
Thought and language are to the artist
Instruments of an art.From the point of view of form,
The art of the musician has form.
From the point of view of feeling,
The art of Actor has feeling.All art is at once surface and symbol.
Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril.
Those who read the symbol do so at their peril.We can forgive a man for making a useful thing
As long as he does not admire it.
The only excuse for making a useless thing
Is that one admires it intensely.All art is therefore quite useless.
Khalil and Tanveer - Do you not admire beautiful women?
Like Bekinsale, Jolie?Regards,
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Peace Lote
what does "omg" mean?
omg = Oh My God (Internet Ebonics)
Did you know that Prophet Muhammad had up to 11 wives (or more than four if you go by Scripture Alone and numberless concubines)?
Each man (women too!) is their own kingdom, no two snowflakes are alike and I would expect the same from an entity with the ability to create (mentally and physically).
One way of life may work for a particular person but keep in mind that we are all different, I myself would feeler closer to debt than God with 11 wives! Whatever brings someone closer to God then they should pursue it because they need to experience, once the need is gone then they should move to their next need or else halt progression.
You would have expected that man who "encountered" God would have turned himself into a monk! I wonder why he did not?
I believe the saint is one who was the killer and the killed, the oppressor and the oppressed, the whore and virgin. Through experience we grow in to what can be termed a saint or a monk.
But we all admire beauty don't we Khalil and Tanveer?
I normally would have answered Yes, with all my heart but as of lately I have being trying to see beyond dualism.
All things are from God so why shy away from 'ugly', we must rather see the face of God in each and every person we meet, rather than classify them as beauiful or ugly.
If we seperate something we are to bring it back together,a return to oneness. Only in flesh do we see with judgemental eyes, once we remove judgement everything just is, we start from the bottom to rise to the highest level,when we reach the highest level we will realize that there is no level's.
That is why I say we are our own kingdom, because we allow ourself to judge
Beauty always makes us smile doesn't it? And we constantly seek beauty in our art and music and in our life.
I disagree with you here, when I do my art I draw because of an emotion evoked, it could be joy, pain, anger, arrousal, calm or the all to often sorrow. In expressing my self I am constantly happy, for if I did not express my self I would die, I enjoy experiencing.
Plato said that contemplation of beauty leads to "ecstasy", ecstasy in the spiritual sense -) i.e. going beyond the object of admiration to the concept of Ideal Beauty.
I agree that the materialist see's the image as something to search for outside of their self while the spirtualist will see the image as something to search for inside of their self.
And certainly what we set our minds to we become, why not contemplate God (all that is) ?
Khalil and Tanveer - Do you not admire beautiful women?
Because this law I have made apart of my kingdom I still do, i am currently trying to understand how to reconcile my differences within.
Ya see, whatever we recognize in another we have witnessed only because this was a charecteristic we possessed, we cannot see what we are now aware of. I do not wish to despise what I term 'ugly' because then I would be despising myself.
Like Bekinsale, Jolie?
I have never heared of the first lady, the second lady Jolie indeed evoke's powerful emotion However, I prefer Lauryn Hill and Erykha Badu.
peace,
PS My first post was not intented to offend you, I feel it was taken the wrong way.
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Hello Khalil,
First of all I was not offended at all by your first post. I found it amusing.
-)I believe the saint is one who was the killer and the killed, the oppressor and the oppressed, the whore and virgin. Through experience we grow in to what can be termed a saint or a monk.
Yep, it is through experience we grow.
All things are from God so why shy away from 'ugly', we must rather see the face of God in each and every person we meet, rather than classify them as beauiful or ugly.
Well, Khalil, you might not see "God" in my face I am afraid, unless if you consider a Yoda look alike "beautiful" -) As for myself I don't classify people as ugly or beautiful when I meet them. I will always meet people as individuals. But I can say Angelina Jolie is beautiful though I have not met her -)
Beauty always makes us smile doesn't it? And we constantly seek beauty in our art and music and in our life.
I disagree with you here, when I do my art I draw because of an emotion evoked, it could be joy, pain, anger, arrousal, calm or the all to often sorrow. In expressing my self I am constantly happy, for if I did not express my self I would die, I enjoy experiencing.
I understand why you do art but admiring art is something we all do I think. We in effect "experience" the beauty of art in our own way.
Ya see, whatever we recognize in another we have witnessed only because this was a charecteristic we possessed, we cannot see what we are now aware of. I do not wish to despise what I term 'ugly' because then I would be despising myself.
I admire beauty Khalil because I have none myself -(
This characteristics is lacking in me so I admire those that have it -)Like Bekinsale, Jolie?
I have never heared of the first lady, the second lady Jolie indeed evoke's powerful emotion However, I prefer Lauryn Hill and Erykha Badu.
It is Kate Bekinsale. She appeared in the film "Valhelsing", the vampire movie. Lauryn Hill and Erykah Badu never heard of (...yet)
Regards,
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Peace all,
i feel the discussion is a little out of subject - but i didn't like the subject anyway - why only women as sex objects ??
Dear LoteTree - you are no reggae fan are you ? If not you would know badu and hill...
A few thoughts concerning beauty
Beauty is not something easily defined. There is the beauty generally admitted which is more a fashion phenomen and there is your own feeling of beauty and also the beauty you feel inside people...When you like or love someone, you'll find that someone beautiful...at least i do!
"Fat" is not considered beautiful but i know so many beautiful "big" girls and boys...
Also, in a group, you might see someone you consider really beautiful - but this might not me the person you'll feel attracted to or interested in...
So what is beauty really about? Is it that important ?Elke
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Peace Lote
First of all I was not offended at all by your first post. I found it amusing.
-)That is Good p
Well, Khalil, you might not see "God" in my face I am afraid, unless if you consider a Yoda look alike "beautiful" -)
I do not consider God beautiful because then a God beside's God would have to be ugly, God just is .... as you say 'beyond words.'
You are wrong, I googled Yoda and my God Yoda is beautiful!
I understand why you do art but admiring art is something we all do I think.
If you look at a piece and are in admiration of it this is because something deep inside you can relate to it, you unconciously sense emotion, the invisible layer on a piece. Yes, there is 'fast food art', which is only bread; on this you cannot live soley. This is why someone who knows how to draw the body line for line can not just create a peice that can draw you in line for line.
We in effect "experience" the beauty of art in our own way.
Percisely, each experience is felt only to the degree we have allowed ourselves to experience.
I admire beauty Khalil because I have none myself -(
You have none because you believe you have none, and once you realize you are your own kingdom you may overcome this limitation, by creating a greater truth.
I went through highschool being treated and looked at as though I was a failure and spoken to as though I was dumb by near everyone. I never upheld their perception of me so I was not limited by thier law, I love them and know they are experiencing life accroding to their truth, as am I, I just got tired of their truth and moved on long ago.
This characteristics is lacking in me so I admire those that have it -)
Where is Noah's ark, outside or inside.
It is Kate Bekinsale. She appeared in the film "Valhelsing", the vampire movie.
I like Jolie to her.
Lauryn Hill and Erykah Badu never heard of (...yet)
Erykah Badu is a talented rhymer and singer, here is a cover from her live album.
Lauryn Hill is a rhymer and singer as well. most recently Kanye used her sample for his song 'It All Fall's Down', however they replaced her hook with someone else., the line 'Im telling you all, it all falls down' was from a song Lauryn performed that is avaible on her MTV live CD.Here is an interview with pictures.
peace,
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Peace Khalil, All,
I would like to say big Ma Sha Allah to Khalil! You are so wise. Your words about beauty and ugliness reminded me of a short story by Kahlil Gibran. A summary
Once upon a time Beauty and Ugliness went swimming. After some time a strong wind blew and high waves were terrifying the two. Ugliness got quickly out of the sea and in a hurry wore Beauty's clothes. When Beauty came out she, being too shy, couldn't go undressed so she took Ugliness? clothes. And since then people have been mistaking the two for each other! -
Peace,
Lotetree you are right, the veil is seductive in 2 ways, it makes a man curious aswell as a man oppressive by wanting to cover his women.
Although much is said about womens' beauty, I think the same can be said about men because the Quran teaches both sexes to lower their gazes and remain chaste, ask a woman if there aren't any contributing in this thread, if men can be used in a similar way as objects to seduce them too! Just look at the adverts half naked men are used in the same way as women are, although men weren't used in this manner decades ago it is becoming more and more common now.
Nural
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Hello Khalil, All,
You are wrong, I googled Yoda and my God Yoda is beautiful!
Ha ha -) You are being too kind!
I admire beauty Khalil because I have none myself -(
You have none because you believe you have none, and once you realize you are your own kingdom you may overcome this limitation, by creating a greater truth.
I understand what you are saying. But don't worry I am working on it. I am confident I will one day come to terms with my faults, defects and ugliness -)
I went through highschool being treated and looked at as though I was a failure and spoken to as though I was dumb by near everyone.
I can relate to that Khalil completely! I have been made to feel useless and worthless as I was growing up. But I have outgrown them all! -) and I don't say this out of pride or arrogance but understanding that we are all limited in many ways and we are also exceptional in many ways. Only through knowledge and understanding perhaps we can go beyond our limitation perhaps...
It is Kate Bekinsale. She appeared in the film "Valhelsing", the vampire movie.
I like Jolie to her.
I think I will throw in my hat for Angelina too -)
Thanks for the Lauryn Hill and Erykah Badu links.
Hello Elke
As for Reggae music, I have not followed much appart from Bob Marley and Maxi Priest - they are reggae musician arn't they?
Regards,
Well this one of my favourite poems on beauty
And a poet said, "Speak to us of Beauty."
Where shall you seek beauty, and how shall you find her unless she herself be your way and your guide?
And how shall you speak of her except she be the weaver of your speech?
The aggrieved and the injured say, "Beauty is kind and gentle.
Like a young mother half-shy of her own glory she walks among us."
And the passionate say, "Nay, beauty is a thing of might and dread.
Like the tempest she shakes the earth beneath us and the sky above us."
The tired and the weary say, "beauty is of soft whisperings. She speaks in our spirit.
Her voice yields to our silences like a faint light that quivers in fear of the shadow."
But the restless say, "We have heard her shouting among the mountains,
And with her cries came the sound of hoofs, and the beating of wings and the roaring of lions."
At night the watchmen of the city say, "Beauty shall rise with the dawn from the east."
And at noontide the toilers and the wayfarers say, "we have seen her leaning over the earth from the windows of the sunset."
In winter say the snow-bound, "She shall come with the spring leaping upon the hills."
And in the summer heat the reapers say, "We have seen her dancing with the autumn leaves, and we saw a drift of snow in her hair."
All these things have you said of beauty.
Yet in truth you spoke not of her but of needs unsatisfied,
And beauty is not a need but an ecstasy.
It is not a mouth thirsting nor an empty hand stretched forth,
But rather a heart enflamed and a soul enchanted.
It is not the image you would see nor the song you would hear,
But rather an image you see though you close your eyes and a song you hear though you shut your ears.
It is not the sap within the furrowed bark, nor a wing attached to a claw,
But rather a garden for ever in bloom and a flock of angels for ever in flight.
People of Orphalese, beauty is life when life unveils her holy face.
But you are life and you are the veil.
Beauty is eternity gazing at itself in a mirror.
But you are eternity and your are the mirror.
I like the last lines but I still can't grasp what it really means!
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Peace,
Kahlil Gibran, cool. Bob Marley is definately reggae, I have heard some of Erykah Badu, she has a unique talent and sounds good but I haven't heard much of her music. At the moment I am listening to Frank Sinatra.
This is my last week at college, I am currently waiting for replies from firms that I have sent CVs to.
Nural
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Peace Taj
I would like to say big Ma Sha Allah to Khalil! You are so wise.
I really don't know how to handle compliments, I appreciate your kind words is all I can respond with.
I have noticed that you yourself are a very heartfelt person with your choice of words, your intentions are very pure.
Your words about beauty and ugliness reminded me of a short story by Kahlil Gibran. A summary
Once upon a time Beauty and Ugliness went swimming. After some time a strong wind blew and high waves were terrifying the two. Ugliness got quickly out of the sea and in a hurry wore Beauty's clothes. When Beauty came out she, being too shy, couldn't go undressed so she took Ugliness? clothes. And since then people have been mistaking the two for each other!Nice pick on the authour, Kahlil Gibran's short story rings bells to loud and clear!
peace Lote
I understand what you are saying. But don't worry I am working on it. I am confident I will one day come to terms with my faults, defects and ugliness
Thats a great perspective to attain, perhaps calling your faults, defects and ugliness a 'snugglier/kinder' term may shorten the process and turn your stumbling blocks into stepping stones.
I can relate to that Khalil completely! I have been made to feel useless and worthless as I was growing up. But I have outgrown them all! and I don't say this out of pride or arrogance but understanding that we are all limited in many ways and we are also exceptional in many ways.
Once we understand our limitations we can work with them and eventually overcome them. Like lifting weights
Only through knowledge and understanding perhaps we can go beyond our limitation perhaps...
Yes, we are yoked by fear and knowledge shatters these illusionary bonds. Of course we must realise that there is more to knowledge than being correct-understanding.
I like the last lines but I still can't grasp what it really means!
Perhaps it is speaking of love for our self?
If beauty is eternity gazing at itself in a mirror and we are both eternity and the mirror then we are beautiful when we can look at our self without turning away.
Peace Nural
Badu is great, I would share some of her music with you but I only own her tapes, her debut CD is real mellow and jazzy and Sinatra, how is he?
peace,
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Did you know that Prophet Muhammad had up to 11 wives (or more than four if you go by Scripture Alone and numberless concubines)? You would have expected that man who "encountered" God would have turned himself into a monk! I wonder why he did not?
Piece be upon you my friend. Please forgive me for any mistake that I may make here after in this. I do not mean to offend.
In the above quote we are going back to stories. Why should we care what stories say about our prophets. Its good for history.
We are commanded not to seek any other source of law. The Quran is the only law since it is the only word of God. That is, if you believe in the hereafter. We guess and follow conjecture rather than following the Quran (Surah 6)
- That is so the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter will listen to it, and they will accept it, and they will take of it what they will.
- ?Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?? Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your. Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
- And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
- And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
When we watch the Bruce lee movie fist of fury we get enraged to see a board saying ?Dogs and Chinese not allowed?. Do you even dream that Islam would be worse than that? According to the books of Hadith, a woman is compared to a black dog or a monkey (this Hadith pre-dates Darwin but it refers to women only) Bukhari 8/102 and Hanbel 4/86. if a woman or a monkey crosses your prayers are not supposed to be accepted by god. This is pure male chauvinism. The Quran on the other hand honors women and lifts up their status contrary to what is contained in the Hadith. A woman is called bad luck in the haidth (Bukhari 76/53). Also, according to the collection of Muslim (Sahih Muslim), most of the people in hell were of the feminine gender! According to Bukhari, "Women are naturally, morally and religiously defective." Therefore, by the standard of the Quran, no Muslim should accept such prejudiced Hadith as issued from the lips of the prophet of God.
These are stories. they contradict the QUran. ONly the male ego has kept them alive for centuries. These are the reasons why we should not take advice from these stories.
Any way.
But we all admire beauty don't we Khalil and Tanveer? Beauty always makes us smile doesn't it? And we constantly seek beauty in our art and music and in our life. Plato said that contemplation of beauty leads to "ecstasy", ecstasy in the spiritual sense i.e. going beyond the object of admiration to the concept of Ideal Beauty.
Why did god include these verses in the Quran 24th Surah
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Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything they do.
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And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is apparent. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers that you may succeed.