Is reincarnation possible in reality ?
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Peace Sis,
The basis for your comment to my comment is your perception about me making a judgement. )
Yes it is. But I'm not quite getting your point?
The whole point of me voicing my perception to YOU is to garner your perception or begin discussion. And you can choose to explain your position further, or not.
But when it comes to God, my perception doesn't amount to a hill of beans. So that means my judgement doesn't either.
Thats my position.
And no, I don't think this world is a "Mental Creation" of the God. "mental", once again, is a human perception of which I have no proof of its applicability to the Creator. God is omnipotent. And creation only exist because of the God. EVERYTHING that happens in the universe is God's Will...regardless of whether or not we think its good or bad or sick. It doesn't matter what we think.
If you think it is the "MENTAL CREATION of the God", then I think you too must be sick
Fair enough. Your judgements and perceptions are your own. People can challenge you, but no one on this Earth can take it away from you...
Tell me, why should anyone be responsible for one's actions if one is someone else's mental creation?
Umm...are you really expecting me to answer that truthfully? Sorry. I can't. But don't worry. You'll definitely find out the Truth soon enough. We all will.
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Peace Salikah,
And no, I don't think this world is a "Mental Creation" of the God. "mental", once again, is a human perception of which I have no proof of its applicability to the Creator. God is omnipotent. And creation only exist because of the God. EVERYTHING that happens in the universe is God's Will...regardless of whether or not we think its good or bad or sick. It doesn't matter what we think.
When a man wrongs another man or woman, is God willing that? Is God also just?
Anwar Azim
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SaLaM Salikah
EVERYTHING that happens in the universe is God's Will...regardless of whether or not we think its good or bad or sick. It doesn't matter what we think.
God says otherwise
Any good that befalls you is from God, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and God is enough as a witness.
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Peace all,
BAD IS FROM ALLAH OR FROM OURSELVES ?
For a detailed discussion on this topic which also shows how the relevant ayaat have been traditionally mistranslated, please see the following link
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3812
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Peace upon you all intelligent brothers and sisters,
In my lowly opinion,
i approach this concept (which many believes or not) in two ways
- i believe in the rebirth after rebirth (the broad and mythical view)
- i believe our state of mind is reincarnation itself (the inner and more individual view)
When people asked about my 1) proof, i give them the book of twenty suggestive cases of reincarnation or simply tibetan book of dead which explains about the bardos.
If people ask me about decrease or increase of souls, there's a doctrine that state that the 'soul' could divide itself. So the increase or decrease dosen't matter anymore (again according to foolish me).
If people ask me whether there is soul factory or newer or older souls,
i simply quote the wise weaver lady in her talk with the siddharta buddha about several esoteric questions as follows
a) Do you know (when you are going to die)?
she answered, "no."
b) will you know (where you headed after death)?
she answered, "No".
c) will you go (will you someday died)?
she answered, "yes"
this implied even the enlightened model didn't exactly know where they will head after dead. The surety is that death will come no matter what. That's why the doctrine implies strongest possible effort in the remaining times. And there's no question or answer that could satisfy whether there is soul factory or not (unless we build it and register it with the brand 'soul factory) tee hee).But i believe that the universe is mirror to our existence and God's nature. It included the mind. The erratic, jumping, restless, dreaming, wandering, ever-changing mind is reincarnation itself. Each moment, i believe we are never the same as before. As philosopher spoke, "You can't cross the same river twice" so we can't encounter the same state of mind twice. Why? Because the mind itself is dead and birth. It was the proof of reincarnation concept, as we could be bad for one moment, then good for the next moment.
The concept that allowed change to occur is reincarnation itself, i believe.
Then what is the strength of this mind? one might ask. Then i believe the fastest thing in the universe is mind. Much faster than light. The faster one thing the greater also the potential power. If mind is faster than light, it proves again how we are really imprisoned inside this body of (entrapped light) or electrons, and followed the nature of decay and growth. Even after we died.Salaam, or mettacittena (may all beings be happy).
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Peace be upon you Rhadamanthus,
I look foward to great discussion with you. I like your approach.
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Thank you all. Nice to meet you all.
Hope we can gain insight together. o -
Peace Rhad,
Welcome, and thank you for the insightful, thought-provoking post.
"You can't cross the same river twice"
Just beautiful, bro.
The faster one thing the greater also the potential power. If mind is faster than light, it proves again how we are really imprisoned inside this body
I agree completely.
Peace,
Tay -
Well, first you are implying that the energy that is reincarnated is a single entity. What if it's not? What if that energy can be split in order to gain a greater knowledge? Also, because reincarnation takes into account ALL living things as possible transitions, you can account for the greater human population by looking at extinct species.
Now for memory? What good would living a life be, if you knew exactly WHY you were living it. That is like knowing the answers to the test. You may get the test right but you misss all the periferal knowledge that comes with the studying
If anything reincarnation is PROVED in nature as everything that dies, eventually becames part of something else.
Look, if you believe in reincarantion, you take into account a time between worldly existence, where you are faced with the truth of your life and what you did with it. It is then that you either choose or are sent to a new existence in order to get closer to a total knowledge of all things and all perspectives. Pretty simple really.
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What an amazing approach! I never thought so...
But I want to add about memory problem... We all know that our memory works funnily. Sometimes we remember the things we don't want most, while the most happiest (wrong grammar Rhad!!) memory tend to slip away as we pass it in trance or rapture-like moment. My (stupid) point is that there must be something that create this pattern of reminiscence.
But in the subconscious, we remember almost the minutest detail long forgotten or even realized, as psychological test proved via hypnotical test.Based on that, it referred to the concept of Vinnana (consciousness), where its eight layer (Alanna) served as its warehouse of memory, pattern, habits, that we are hardly aware of.
Yet again, a concept is merely a concept. Attachment to a concept blindly, or grasping on it like it was a possession are not advantageous. We all should realize which concept moved us the most and which turned on the bad thinking inside. After all, the moment we live now and at present is the most important one.
Again, it was another stupid me...
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Each moment, i believe we are never the same as before. As philosopher spoke, "You can't cross the same river twice" so we can't encounter the same state of mind twice.
Yes, mind is always in a state of flux.
If mind is faster than light, it proves again how we are really imprisoned inside this body of (entrapped light) or electrons, and followed the nature of decay and growth.
Yes, Plato wrote about this 2000 years ago that we are imprisoned in a material body.
And welcom to the forum sun
Rhadamanthus - the name is Greek isn't it? -)
Regards,
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Yes. The rhadamanthus is to be my trade mark (hope so...)
Isn't that right, Adley? -
Yes. The rhadamanthus is to be my trade mark (hope so...)
Isn't that right, Adley?I hope you don't take up the Role of Rhadamanthus of devising terrible punishments for sinners wink
Regards,
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Salaam,
Yes. The rhadamanthus is to be my trade mark (hope so...)
Isn't that right, Adley?Sure hope so brother
I hope you don't take up the Role of Rhadamanthus of devising terrible punishments for sinners
I don't think he'll do that -- giving severe punishments that is. But he does do the judging lol
Wasalaam,
=adley= -
salam All newcomers
Welcome to the home of the freeminders. I see our charms here must be working twisted We will have you all under our power soon twisted Then you will do our bidding twisted
Sorry people that was just my evil cat owning villainous side, Lotetree will explain all that to you.
Hope you enjoy yourselves here.
Great thread though, really loving everyones ideas on reincatnation, oops i meant reincarnation. My views personally are i wouldn't want to come back for a second time, my brother on the other hand says if he had a choice to come back he'd beg Allah to turn him into one of my cats.
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Peace Tay, all,
5 billion different humans can have 5 billion different definitions of reincarnation theory ranging from "living the entire gamut of experiences" to "murder of someone being repaid by enduring the murder of someone close to the murderer" to "repayment of karma in same life". PLEASE COME UP WITH A UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTABLE ACCURATE AND CORRECT DEFINITION OF THE REINCARNATION THEORY BEFORE CONTINUING THE DISCUSSION FURTHER. Who cares what the Hindu understanding, or Jewish, or Christian, or "muslim" or "Tay's" or "albion's" or "tanveermd's" understanding is; if reincarnation phenomenon is true, there can be only one absolute definition.
For a logical debate to take place we need to accurately define the topic of the debate which is universally acceptable. IMO according to the mainstream reincarnation theory if someone murders someone else, the only way the karmic debt can be paid off is by the murderer getting murdered himself/herself in the next life. However this definition of reincarnation theory contradicts yours. So in the absence of an accurate and universally acceptable definition of reincarnation theory, any further discussion is futile.
According to my understanding of the reincarnation theory, a karmic debt due to a deed performed in a past life can be repaid only by performance of a deed in the current life, the nature and magnitude of which is EXACTLY similar to the deed in the past life, and for that one needs to have memory of the deed in the past life, including its nature and magnitude.
I am trying to discuss the explanation for the factual increase in population of Earth in the present, if reincarnation theory is true. Population decrease would not mean decrease in the total number of souls, but the movement of souls out of the reincarnation cycle and out of this earthly existence due to their achievement of nirvana and moving on to another plane of existence, the total number of souls still remaining constant. Population increase can mean creation of new souls (implying creation of new energy) OR introduction of the souls into the reincarnation cycle at different times (implying constant energy). Either way, the soul entering the reincarnation cycle at an earlier time will have MORE TOTAL TIME/CYCLES than the soul entering the cycle at a later time which is UNFAIR. What is the fault of the soul entering the cycle at a later time for having lesser time/cycles in order to achieve nirvana?
"OLDER" soul -------------------------------------------------------------------------->Last Day
_____________"NEWER" soul ----------------------------------------------------->Last Day<----------------TOTAL TIME/# OF CYCLES------------------------------------------>Last Day
As you can clearly see in the above diagram, The soul entering reincarnation cycle earlier will have MORE TOTAL OR ABSOLUTE TIME/CYCLES than the soul entering the cycle later. The end point is fixed and is the same for all souls as per the following
4172 ..............then He will gather them all towards Him TOGETHER.
That is not fair for the "newer" soul. Why should the "newer" soul have LESSER ABSOLUTE TIME/CYCLES to achieve nirvana ?
I agree that the best course of action is to totally rely on The God, and when we do that we find evidence that demolishes the reincarnation theory ( 2399-100, 228, 4011)
Regards,
Tanveer
Peace to u Tanveer
Is there any verse in the Al Quran Allah refers us to past lives. What i understand that Allah will gather us in the future tense....
gazzali )
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Peace Gazzali,
Please see the following discussion in the past
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10351.0