DO AYATS 5:5 AND 6:146, PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?
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From 6145..
Say, "I do not find in the revela-
tions given to me any food that is
prohibited for any eater except
(1) carrion, (2) running blood,
(3) the meat* of pigs, for it is
contaminated, and (4) the meat of
animals blasphemously dedicated
to other than GOD." If one is
forced (to eat these), without being
deliberate or malicious, then your
Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful. -
This doesn't tell me anything! I will check them in english and get back to you. But as I see you have disregarded the "he ONLY prohibts you.." part.
Salaam Brother
I agree with you . There are three location where Allah is declaring these "Haraam animals".53
(53) Forbidden to you are carrion, *9 blood, the flesh of swine, the animal slaughtered in any name other than Allah's, *10 the animal which has either been strangled, killed by blows, has died of a fall, by goring or that devoured by a beast of prey - unless it be that which you yourselves might have slaughtered while it was still alive *11 - and that which was slaughtered at the altars. *12- *13
You are also forbidden to seek knowledge of your fate by divining arrows. *14 All these are sinful acts. This day the unbelievers have fully despaired of your religion. Do not fear them; but fear Me. *15 This day I have perfected for you your religion, and have bestowed upon you My bounty in full measure, and have been pleased to assign for you Islam as your religion. (Follow, then, the lawful and unlawful bounds enjoined upon you.) *16 As for he who is driven by hunger, without being wilfully inclined to sin, surely Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate. *172173
(2173) Allah has only forbidden you to eat what dies of itself, and blood and swine flesh and what has been consecrated to any other name than of Allah. *171 But one will incur no sin if, forced by absolute necessity, he eats of any of these forbidden things, provided he has no intention of transgressing the law and does not take more than what is absolutely indispensable for Allah is very Forgiving and very Merciful.16115
(16115) Allah has forbidden only these things do not eat what dies of itself nor blood nor swine flesh nor what has been slaughtered in any name other than Allah. But if forced by hunger one eats of any of these forbidden things, provided he has no intention of breaking the Divine Law or of transgressing the limits by taking more than what is absolutely indispensable, one may expect mercy, for Allah is very Forgiving and very Compassionate.At fourth place Allah clearly commands
6145
(6145) Tell them (O Muhammad!) 'I do not find in what has been revealed to me anything forbidden for anyone who wants to eat unless it is carrion, outpoured blood and the flesh of swine, all of which is unclean; or that which is profane having been slaughtered in a name other than that of Allah. *121 But whosoever is constrained to it by necessity - neither desiring to disobey nor exceeding the limit of necessity - your Lord is surely AllForgiving, All-Compassionate.This way of statement is exactly like this that a doctor tells the patient "Do not eat ABCD"
Doesn't it mean the patient can eat rest of eatables?We should not forget
587
(587) Believers! Do not hold as unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful to you, *104 and do not exceed the bounds of right. *105 Allah does not love those who transgress the bounds of right.As far as this logic beast of burden is concerned because of which Mazhar is making an animal Haraam. How about "Camels"? Halaal or Haraam?
What about BIRDs ??
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Prohibition and Permissible are given distinctly in the Qur'aan. Dogs etc are NOT declared as your Rizq. Only milk giving herbivores other than employed as beast of burden are made permissible for eating and are declared as Rizq given by Allah, in all the Ayat quoted in earlier post. The Ayah quoted talks as an explanation given by the Messenger about the things prohibited by Allah in other verses. Here reason is also given with clarification that blood which is flowing liquid is haram, otherwise some blood always remains within the body of slaugtered herbivore. At all other places only blood was mentioned.
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peace q_student
the answer is in 6145
And based on your ABCD example you should know that camels are halal.
Remember that if it is not specifically mentioned as haram, then is halal.
So basically camels are halal. -
Prohibition and Permissible are given distinctly in the Qur'aan. Dogs etc are NOT declared as your Rizq. Only milk giving herbivores other than employed as beast of burden are made permissible for eating and are declared as Rizq given by Allah, in all the Ayat quoted in earlier post. The Ayah quoted talks as an explanation given by the Messenger about the things prohibited by Allah in other verses. Here reason is also given with clarification that blood which is flowing liquid is haram, otherwise some blood always remains within the body of slaugtered herbivore. At all other places only blood was mentioned.
if you want to go by this although I have given evidence from the Quran, you are free to do so, but I am not.
I will follow the quran. as for rizq is that like domestic animals? clarify -
peace q_student
the answer is in 6145
And based on your ABCD example you should know that camels are halal.
Remember that if it is not specifically mentioned as haram, then is halal.
So basically camels are halal.This is the perception of misguided people who read Qur'aan only in part, believe in some and refuse to believe in some.
Camels belong to a different family other than horses, donkeys and mules. They have specifically been declared as Halal. Unless anything is declared as Halal none can presume that it is Halal. He follows satanic whispers. -
This is quote from student.
Only that cannot be called Haram which has been declared Halal by Allah for us. Where Allah has declared cat, dog, donkey Halal?
Those who declare such things as halal for themselves they follow none but the Satan.
So which animals does God make halal for us to eat in the Quran?
I mean are chicken, turkey, pigeon, rabbit, duck in the Quran?
This has always confused me. Obviously dirty animals like rats shouldn't be eaten, that's just common sense. But what about other animals like cats and foxes?
I read in a book about 'Islam' that you shouldn't eat aggressive animals like lions and buffolo because their hormones can make you aggressive too but I haven't seen any scientific evidence. -
Prohibition and Permissible are given distinctly in the Qur'aan. Dogs etc are NOT declared as your Rizq. Only milk giving herbivores other than employed as beast of burden are made permissible for eating and are declared as Rizq given by Allah, in all the Ayat quoted in earlier post. The Ayah quoted talks as an explanation given by the Messenger about the things prohibited by Allah in other verses. Here reason is also given with clarification that blood which is flowing liquid is haram, otherwise some blood always remains within the body of slaugtered herbivore. At all other places only blood was mentioned.
Dear Brother Mazhar
I think it is here where you are struck up. By the word "Rizq" you mean only "eatable". Your concept is not true. Anything which is given by Allah may be cow ,buffalo ,goats ,cats ,donkeys ,horses ,dogs ,wealth ,land ,rain ,fruits even cars your PC from which one is benefitted is RizQ.Quran says
Everything given by Allah is called Rizq. Even dictionaries of Classical arabic support it.
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What stops you from including Dogs and Donkeys in RIZQ
As far this arguement is concerned these are considered beast of burden ,where does Quran says that it is their only use.
Then you jumped to saying milk givein "Baheema" .Does donkey or horses do not give milK?
In addition to these animals there are many others like
Lizard ?
Birds like Crows,vultures ,pigeons ,chickens
Snakes
WaspsYou have persistantly avoided the question raised by progressive the use of word "Innamaa" used in
2173
16115
Allah asks the prophet PBUH to declare that in the QURAN THERE IS NOTHING HARAAM EXCEPT THOSE MENTIONED
6145
BUT YOU SAY "NO" THERE ARE OTHERS HARAAM ALSO
Whome should be trusted ?
Regards -
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Peace all,
First, get science out of this completely. Some foods are pemissible but can harm you.
Second, when the Quran says 'I don't see from what was revealed to me anything forbidden except...' is only regarding cattle because the pagans made their own prohibitions in cattle. It is very interesting to note that when God added some prohibitions on the Jews, all were within cattle. Ofcourse and as usual, that has nothing to do with the Babylonian Torah so don't get confused.
Peace,
Rami
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Ok..this will probably be my last post on this issue.
This is from Hadiths
According to various "authentic" Ahadith narrated in "Sahih" Bukhari and "Sahih" Muslim including hadith narrated by Ibn Abbas in "Sahih" Muslim, Book of hunting and slaughter, Hadith No. 4752 and Sunan Ibn-I-Majah chapter 13 Hadith no. 3232 to 3234, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) prohibited the eating of
(i) Wild animals with canine teeth, i.e. meat eating carnivorous animals. These are animals belonging to the cat families such as lion, tiger, cats, dogs, wolfs, hyenas, etc.
(ii) Certain rodents like mice, rats, rabbits with claws, etc.
(iii) Certain reptiles like snakes, alligators, etc.
(iv) Birds of prey with talons or claws, like vultures, eagle, crows, owl, etc.
This is from the Quran
"O you who believe, eat from the good things we provided for you, and be thankful to GOD, if you do worship Him alone. He ONLY prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful." (2172-173)
"Say, "I do not find in what was revealed to me anything prohibited for
any eater unless it is (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is unclean, and (4) meat blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced to eat these without being malicious or deliberte, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful." (6145)Say, "Did you note how GOD sends down to you all kinds of provisions, then you render some of them unlawful, and some lawful?" Say, "Did GOD give you permission to do this? Or, do you fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD?" (1059)
"Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of themselves include those) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning (the eradication of) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you. If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful." (53)
"These are God's revelations that We recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?" (456)
"They follow idols who decree for them religious laws never authorized by God. If it were not for the predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution." (4221)
Bonus I will give you the dictionary definition of "anything" and "only", because Rami made a ridiculous claim, saying that "anything except..." refers to only cattle being lawful.
Anything (pronoun) "Any object, act, state, event, or fact whatever; thing of any kind; something or other; aught"
Only (adverb) "Without others or anything further; exclusively" and "no more than; just"
If you still won't believe me, then check http//www.quran-islam.org/118.html and http//www.submission.org/quran/app16.html
Peace
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Peace
I am assuming that Mazar gets his prohibitions from Hadiths as he was probably brought up that way.
I have presented evidence that only the meat of pigs (not the fat), running blood, dead animals (without human interference), the meat that was dedicated to anyone except for God,ect. is haram. Period.
If it is NOT SPECIFICALLY mentioned as forbidden in the Quran, then it is lawful. If something is declared permissible then it DOES NOT mean that other things are forbidden.
Please look at the links that I have provided earlier and also go to the replies section at quran-islam.org under the reply/article "are dogs haram?"
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Salamun alaykum
Q_student . Do you feel that there should be some verses ( Ayat ) of the Qur'an that Prevent The Pig as Being Haram ? After all of the verses cited including by yourself that eating of pig meat is clearly haram ? I am totally confused by "the heading of this thread" . Progressive1993 replied with the appropriate answers backed by verses relevant to the subject matters , yet you complained about his inclusion of some hadiths evidence which is informative , though not necessarily valid .
Let's see the topic heading again ...." Do Ayats 55 AND 6146 , PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?" , are you asking if these two ayats prevent The Pig from being Prohibited to be consumed or what ? Please help me understand , if haram means Prohibit/ed/ion , why are you asking if these afore mentioned verses Prevent the pig from being so ( haram) ? .
Peace and thank you
almarh0m
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Peace
I am assuming that Mazar gets his prohibitions from Hadiths as he was probably brought up that way.
I have presented evidence that only the meat of pigs (not the fat), running blood, dead animals (without human interference), the meat that was dedicated to anyone except for God,ect. is haram. Period.
If it is NOT SPECIFICALLY mentioned as forbidden in the Quran, then it is lawful. If something is declared permissible then it DOES NOT mean that other things are forbidden.
Please look at the links that I have provided earlier and also go to the replies section at quran-islam.org under the reply/article "are dogs haram?"
Nowhere on this forum I have ever quoted an Hadith.
The hadith reidden people and the so called progressive are of the same coin. Both are not willing to accept the word of Qur'aan since it does not suit many of their desires.
The problem with the so called modernists is that they are not willing to understand the classification of animals as given by the Qur'aan which is so authentic that the 21st century scientific classification is the same.
Qur'aan has declared some of the herbivore mammals as Hilal, and NOT animals, and exception is made for such mammals who died natural death or were slaughtered in the name of someone else or alongwith the name of Allah. In the presence of such distinct command any one desiring eating frogs, donkeys, dogs and cats will do it at his own will and not under the excuse of not having been declared Haram. -
Nowhere on this forum I have ever quoted an Hadith.
The hadith reidden people and the so called progressive are of the same coin. Both are not willing to accept the word of Qur'aan since it does not suit many of their desires.
The problem with the so called modernists is that they are not willing to understand the classification of animals as given by the Qur'aan which is so authentic that the 21st century scientific classification is the same.
Qur'aan has declared some of the herbivore mammals as Hilal, and NOT animals, and exception is made for such mammals who died natural death or were slaughtered in the name of someone else or alongwith the name of Allah. In the presence of such distinct command any one desiring eating frogs, donkeys, dogs and cats will do it at his own will and not under the excuse of not having been declared Haram.Listen, you fail to understand that eventhough the Quran says that herbivorous animals are halal, it does not mean that other animals are haram. If some others are declared as haram, then ALL other animals, foods, etc. are HALAL BY DEFAULT. If you dont believe me, then look at the links, i cannot help you any further. Besides I am not trying to adjust/change islam to modern standards. I only follow what has been revealed by God in the Quran. Period. Being progressive is good, though and we should not have anything against that, although i agree that we should not cross the limits.
The reason i referred to the hadith, was because i was assuming you got your prohibitions from there. check my earlier posts for that.
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Salamun alaykum
Q_student . Do you feel that there should be some verses ( Ayat ) of the Qur'an that Prevent The Pig as Being Haram ? After all of the verses cited including by yourself that eating of pig meat is clearly haram ? I am totally confused by "the heading of this thread" . Progressive1993 replied with the appropriate answers backed by verses relevant to the subject matters , yet you complained about his inclusion of some hadiths evidence which is informative , though not necessarily valid .
Let's see the topic heading again ...." Do Ayats 55 AND 6146 , PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?" , are you asking if these two ayats prevent The Pig from being Prohibited to be consumed or what ? Please help me understand , if haram means Prohibit/ed/ion , why are you asking if these afore mentioned verses Prevent the pig from being so ( haram) ? .
Peace and thank you
almarh0m
Peace brother,
I understand that you might be confused by all this discussion. I will answer your question. Here is the verse you quoted (55) along with 2 previous verses (53-4) - meaning that it is in context.
(53) Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of
pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of them-
selves include those ) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height,
gored, attacked by a wild animal--unless you save your animal before it
dies--and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat
through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning(the eradication of ) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you.
If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food ), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is
Forgiver, Merciful.(54) They consult you concerning what
is lawful for them; say, "Lawful for
you are all good things, including
what trained dogs and falcons catch
for you." You train them according
to GOD's teachings. You may eat
what they catch for you, and
mention GOD's name thereupon.
You shall observe GOD.
GOD is most efficient in reckoning.- Today, all good food is made lawful
for you. The food of the people of
the scripture is lawful for you.
Also, you may marry the chaste women
among the believers, as well as the chaste women
among the followers of previous scripture,
provided you pay them their due dowries.
You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery,
nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith,
all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter
he will be with the losers.
Do you understand now? If God would have meant that EVERY SINGLE THING is lawful, then prohibitions in the Quran would not only contradict the verses that contain prohibitions, but would also be useless since all things would be lawful. And we know that there are no contradictions in the Quran and every word in the Quran has its purpose.
Note that it says all GOOD things are lawful. This means everything that is good/not mentioned as unlawful is, by default, lawful.
When it says that the food of the people of the scripture is lawful, this is refering to the food accorfin gto the bible and torah. They forbid pork along with numerous other things, which is where hadithists get there prohibitions from.
So basically No, 55 and 6146 do not make pork lawful.
I hope your questions/concerns are answered now.And just as a reminder "O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors." (587)
"This is the book in which there is no doubt, a guide for the conscientious" (22)
- Today, all good food is made lawful
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Peace brother,
I understand that you might be confused by all this discussion. I will answer your question. Here is the verse you quoted (55) along with 2 previous verses (53-4) - meaning that it is in context.
(53) Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of
pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of them-
selves include those ) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height,
gored, attacked by a wild animal--unless you save your animal before it
dies--and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat
through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers
have given up concerning (the
eradication of ) your religion; do not
fear them and fear Me instead.
Today, I have completed your
religion, perfected My blessing
upon you, and I have decreed
Submission as the religion for you.
If one is forced by famine (to eat
prohibited food ), without being
deliberately sinful, then GOD is
Forgiver, Merciful.(54) They consult you concerning what
is lawful for them; say, "Lawful for
you are all good things, including
what trained dogs and falcons catch
for you." You train them according
to GOD's teachings. You may eat
what they catch for you, and
mention GOD's name thereupon.
You shall observe GOD.
GOD is most efficient in reckoning.- Today, all good food is made lawful
for you. The food of the people of
the scripture is lawful for you.
Also, you may marry the chaste women
among the believers, as well as the chaste women
among the followers of previous scripture,
provided you pay them their due dowries.
You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery,
nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith,
all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter
he will be with the losers.
Do you understand now? If God would have meant that EVERY SINGLE THING is lawful, then prohibitions in the Quran would not only contradict the verses that contain prohibitions, but would also be useless since all things would be lawful. And we know that there are no contradictions in the Quran and every word in the Quran has its purpose.
Note that it say all GOOD things are lawful. This means everything that is good/not mentioned as unlawful.
When it says that the food of the people of the scripture is lawful, this is refering to the food accorfin gto the bible and torah. They forbid pork along with numerous other things, which is where hadithists get there prohibitions from.
I hope your questions/concerns are answered now.
And just as a reminder "O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors." (587)
"This is the book in which there is no doubt, a guide for the conscientious" (22)
Start with this and then read the rest
If things which you consider haram only when specifically mentioned by name then what was the need of saying "for you is made permissible ." And do not include cats and dogs or any other animal that one may like to eat. For a believer is permissible subject to conditionalities, for non believers, choice is wide open.
- Today, all good food is made lawful
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Peace Progressive1993
Thank you for your clear explanation re what is expressly forbidden and what is permissible i.e. all good things . However , let me tell you that I never have problem understanding the verses cited as per Haram and Halal things to consume . As you can see in my previous post on this topic which you quoted , I did acknowledge that you gave a correct answer and explanation with relevant verses . If I may point out to you once again that I was never confused by the Ayats cited thus far , what I was and still am confused about is "The Heading of this thread . I know as well as the next person that other than what is expressly forbidden , is permissible , even by default . By the way , I addressed my post which you quoted above to Q_student . Thanks anyway .
Cheers
almarh0m