sex before marriage
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Taj I didn't talk about Muslims practising Zina. Zina was discussed on other threads. I wrote about Bighaa'a as mentioned in .
Zina (according to Taj herself) = sex outside marriage.
Al-bighaa = an act where a man pays a woman NOT MARRIED TO HIM to have sex with her.
Ergo al-bgihaa is a subset of az-zinaa.
Why do you want to control and judge my uderstanding of Ayah !?
Despite all the evidence...wow.
Peace all,
I don't think this is a terrible thread at all. What I am worried about are socially constructed ideals seeping INTO the discussion.
To say whats allowed and whats not is not the point of my post. I can actually see the point of both. Mquran, you are also putting your own swing on "marriage" that are extraquranic. Per the Qur'an, a huge part of a marriage agreement are the nuptial gifts given to the woman from the man. Have you ever considered that Zina might be-in fact-men and women having sex without the man giving SOMETHING out of his wealth? In this case, Al-bgihaa would NOT be Zina since the man is spending his wealth.
I say this simply because the God uses very precise words to convey the message and perhaps we should take a closer look at the conceptual similarities and differences of the words being used regardless of what we think and agree with.
peace.
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SaLaM Salikah
You mean like when two people decide to live together, have babies and all that but without any 'marriage' ? I think, that makes sense then.
Mquran, this is a free forum. Everyone is welcomed here to have their own belief. You need to stop making it personal when someone disagrees with you.
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Peace Salikah,
I don't think this is a terrible thread at all.
I didn't understand the "This is a terrible thread!" comment! I mean aren't we supposed to study the Quran? The whole 114 Suwarr!?What I am worried about are socially constructed ideals seeping INTO the discussion
Let me tell about something that happened to me a couple of years ago. I called on the phone one big Ullamah here in my country who is on hotline answering questions from ananymous callers, and I asked "Sir, why is it Haram for the woman to perform salaat during the mensus? I read the whole Quran and couldn't find anywhere that says that women should stop salaat during that time? And you know sir, Salaat is the backbone of religion, so how can a woman break her religion!?"
And Salikah, you wouldn't believe the curses he fired at me on the phone just because I dared to question it!!!To say whats allowed and whats not is not the point of my post. I can actually see the point of both. Mquran, you are also putting your own swing on "marriage" that are extraquranic. Per the Qur'an, a huge part of a marriage agreement are the nuptial gifts given to the woman from the man. Have you ever considered that Zina might be-in fact-men and women having sex without the man giving SOMETHING out of his wealth? In this case, Al-bgihaa would NOT be Zina since the man is spending his wealth.
I say this simply because the God uses very precise words to convey the message and perhaps we should take a closer look at the conceptual similarities and differences of the words being used regardless of what we think and agree with.
Perfectly said! Allah does not shy away from Al Haq nor does He lacks words.
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As Salaam Alaikum,
Salam NoProgressive,
I don't see in the Ayah anything about sex as a price to freedom.
Taj you are trying to argue that prostitution is ok in Islam. at least you are trying to say that it is not forbidden.
The verse that you have quoted is taking about SLAVES who are making contracts to gain freedom from thier masters. Allah says DO NOT force them to give sex in exchange for freedom. And even when a woman DOES consent to give sex, Allah says that he will forgive her (i.e. it is a sin on her part to give sex).
The sin is when those women put their bodies in harm's way. The sin is when Allah gives you something i.e. your body, your health, your children, etc and then you don't take care of it. Some desperate people would sell their children, others would sell their kidneys, etc..
The thing is those women know that what they are doing is not right for themsleves but they are desperate.Oh gosh give me a break. Prostitution is a sin, becuase it causes all of those things. PLease don't say that prostitution isn't the sin. htat's like saying "doing crack isn't a sin... the harming of your body is".
salaam
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Salaamun alaikum Salikah,
To say whats allowed and whats not is not the point of my post. I can actually see the point of both. Mquran, you are also putting your own swing on "marriage" that are extraquranic. Per the Qur'an, a huge part of a marriage agreement are the nuptial gifts given to the woman from the man. Have you ever considered that Zina might be-in fact-men and women having sex without the man giving SOMETHING out of his wealth? In this case, Al-bgihaa would NOT be Zina since the man is spending his wealth
Would you please point out where I have done this? I do my best to excise extra-quranic values from my thinking so if you could please point this out, that'd be good.
Here are my definitions thus far
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marriage a contract between a man and woman , 2 witnesses, the gift, and a period of iddah after the divorce if there's one. (so hooking would be rather difficult, dont u think, with 4 johns a year)
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zina sex without the above contract
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al-bighaa sex which is paid for but nothing else.
How did I import my personal feelings?
thanks and peace.
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I don't see in the Ayah anything about sex as a price to freedom.
Taj you are trying to argue that prostitution is ok in Islam. at least you are trying to say that it is not forbidden.
The verse that you have quoted is taking about SLAVES who are making contracts to gain freedom from thier masters. Allah says DO NOT force them to give sex in exchange for freedom. And even when a woman DOES consent to give sex, Allah says that he will forgive her (i.e. it is a sin on her part to give sex).
The Ayah does not speak about slavery nor does it speak about sex for freedom. Can you point out in the Ayah where it says "sex for freedom" or "slavery", please?
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Salaam all,
I will leave this thread because I think I have already make sure that my high moral thinking has landed even if no one have noticed that
Wonders what that can mean, Majidah!!!???Use your God given brains
Peace
Sis Majidah -
sex consumates a marriage, and my personal interpretation is that you can have sex with someone....and then youre married. So considder carefully what you do. Because if it doesnt work out there is a 4 month waiting period, before you can redo it.
)Mashallah! - This fits perfectly. I was looking at the problem backwards - no wonder it didn't make sense.
The 4 month rule is sufficient to detremine if the girl is pergnant or if the anyone has any STDs.
peace
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SALAAM,
Only a correction, it is 3 month waiting period.
4 month goes for widows I guess!
Peace Sis Majidah
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Salaam Jaxal,
I didn't really get your opinion on this.
Quran 2226-228 For those who are discontent with their wives,let them wait for four months.If they reconcile,then God is Forgiving, Most Merciful.And if they insist on the divorce, then God is hearer,Knowledgeable.And the divorced women shall wait for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day.And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile...................
I just thought you meant that the women have to wait 3 month after the 3 month shock
But Quran are talking about men who want to divorce their wives but women who want to divorce their men!? Is the rule same for them? Well maybe not the 3 month waiting period though For the men I meant!
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Salaam Jaxal,
Ok, sorry that I misundertood u!
Peace
Sis Majidah -
As Salaam Alaikum,
I don't see in the Ayah anything about sex as a price to freedom.
Taj you are trying to argue that prostitution is ok in Islam. at least you are trying to say that it is not forbidden.
The verse that you have quoted is taking about SLAVES who are making contracts to gain freedom from thier masters. Allah says DO NOT force them to give sex in exchange for freedom. And even when a woman DOES consent to give sex, Allah says that he will forgive her (i.e. it is a sin on her part to give sex).
The Ayah does not speak about slavery nor does it speak about sex for freedom. Can you point out in the Ayah where it says "sex for freedom" or "slavery", please?
Oh gosh yes it does. Read it for yourself. I'm qutooign the same verse you have been quoting..
salaam
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As Salaam Alaikum,
sex consumates a marriage, and my personal interpretation is that you can have sex with someone....and then youre married. So considder carefully what you do. Because if it doesnt work out there is a 4 month waiting period, before you can redo it.
)Mashallah! - This fits perfectly. I was looking at the problem backwards - no wonder it didn't make sense.
The 4 month rule is sufficient to detremine if the girl is pergnant or if the anyone has any STDs.
peace
If sex means you are married, then why are we punished for fornication adn adultery????
salaam
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As'salaamu Alaikum...
Please forgive me for not reading each and every reply to this thread...if what I say is redundant or incorrect may Allah (swt) as well as all those reading this please forgive my mistake.
Umm...the first page alone was kind of "scary"...I think it should really be reminded that lots and lots people lurk at websites like this and lots of people who may not really have a full, thorough understanding of the Qur'aan may be posting things that will appear to be parts of Islam, but really are not. All this "I heard" or "I think" or "It seems to me" should really have no place in any of this because if we believe in the Qur'aan then we should cite everything from the Qur'aan (as it relates to answering a question about Islam)..we shouldn't state that our opinion is fact, nor should we think that our understanding of a certain ayat is solid fact. The fact that ANYONE could think that prostitution was remotely supported much less PREMOTED in that ayat quoted just really boggles my mind. It is scary, actually.
We as humans who live in this dunya have many urges and many desires...the mere fact that we have said urge or desire is not proper justification for giving into those feelings. Just because someone likes sex or thinks sex is no big deal does not mean that this mindset is ideal or that it's supported in the Qur'aan or in any aspect of a truly Islamic lifestyle. This issue is very simple...sex before marriage is prohibitted in Islam, as is dating...prostitution is a no go...cheating is a no go...no matter how we try to explain our way out of these pure facts, doesn't change the reality. Islam is not a way of life for the weak hearted, it's not about having all the fun we want and la la la skipping down the lane doing whatever feels right in that moment...it's about a deeper ecstasy, a true connection with no deviation with the ONE, it's about strengthening the God (swt) qualities inside ourselves...
I see so many people who try to change Islam to suit their needs...the reality is that if we are true muslims we will change ourselves to suit Islam...
Forgive me if I've offended anyone, that was not my intent.
For those who doubt any of this they can check out Surah 55 in the Qur'aan, there are others I can quote as well.
Masalaama,
Amina
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There's little use in singling out a certain "group" or "sect" or school of thought...there is only one ummah. It's been said many times over that it is that which seperates us from fellow man which also seperates us from Allah (swt)...there are sunnis and shi'is and salafis and sufis who subscribe to bid'ah just as their are "God only" people who do as well...most ills are human conditions, not conditions only had by someone with a certain label...
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peace Amina
...as is dating
No it is not. Not at all. How on earth would you meet a suitable partner and get to know that person if you werent allowed. You are not allowed to mix up dating and marriage wit each their individual rights and responsabilites.
I see so many people who try to change Islam to suit their needs...
Like those listening to hearsay and things wich simply just aren't true?
I dont take offend by words. dont worry.