"Why Pray If I Don't Get Much Out of It?"
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If you are sane, and not striving hard for His Cause, you are in trouble.
Striving hard = learning arabic? I thought you said it's easy? ?If you sit on your butt all day in front of the monitor and just criticize ahadith, then it becomes extremely hard to learn Arabic. But if you are sincere and put a lot of time and effort into it, it'll be smooth.
Samir
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If you sit on your butt all day in front of the monitor and just criticize ahadith, then it becomes extremely hard to learn Arabic. But if you are sincere and put a lot of time and effort into it, it'll be smooth.
So if you sit on your butt all day in front of the monitor reading ahadith, you're in good shape right? Because criticizing ahadith in front of the monitor, as opposed to its 'back side' I guess, helps smooth the process of learning arabic. lol
Confucius say, Read ahadith, make butt smooth
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- On what basis do you do this?
The basis that it works
- How is it unecessary and an innovation when all the Muslims practiced it during the time of the Prophet (s) till today?
My criteria isn't what people in the world who call themselves 'muslims' practise. These very same people are also some of the most oppressed people on earth. Therefore by Quranic criteria (see 3/139 and 4/141) , they cannot be 'al-mumineen'. Whats the point in following them?
- Prove to me that someone prayed it in their native tongue during the Prophet's (s) time.
I would think all of them prayed in their native tongue, since most of them were Arabs. Not that it matters though.
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If you sit on your butt all day in front of the monitor and just criticize ahadith, then it becomes extremely hard to learn Arabic.
I didnt know we can learn arabic by reading hadiths? Looooll THat is certainly not how I learnt arabic. Reading hadith is good if you cannot sleep. The rdiculous stories in there will certainly help your mind to get so bored that you end up sleeping. wink
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Peace be upon you all,
Just a reminder to myself and anyone who takes heed, we must be gentile with the calling to the right path, we cannot make fun of others beliefs when calling than to knowledge, which is verified belief.
This is about dealing with the emotional/animal side of the human, which is why there are many animal metaphors in this reading, and in ancient symbolism, like the so called Sphinx, which is human headed and animal bodied to show the animal nature that needs to be overcome.
When we make fun of somenes belief, it rears the animal part up which blocks the divine part of your being from manifesting itself, so you become "blind". We have all experienced this, but somehow maintained enough PEace within to reach a certain level. Let us not forget this as we debate our fellow people of the book.
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Salaam Samir,
why don't you read some more on this forum in order to at least understand what we're about... from your posts i feel that you just kind of "jumped" in. There are articles on salat and many other subjects on the homepage and you will realize that we don't all share the same point of view alhamdullelah...this would indeed be very suspect to me wink
Elke
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- On what basis do you do this?
The basis that it works
I say the same thing by saying, "My prayers work".
My criteria isn't what people in the world who call themselves 'muslims' practise. These very same people are also some of the most oppressed people on earth. Therefore by Quranic criteria (see 3/139 and 4/141) , they cannot be 'al-mumineen'. Whats the point in following them?
- Then what is the point of calling yourself a Muslim? It's like saying I'm a Buddhist but I technically don't follow any of their works because they are being oppressed; so therefore, they are not really Buddhists.
- Yes, we are being oppressed. In fact, some Scholars say we are recieving the divine wrath of Allah for turning our backs to the Qur'an (with the support of many ahadith). We can only get out of this mess if we come back to the Qur'an, as well as the Sunnah.
- That is why many Muslims join Islamic Movements, such as IONA, to bring about an Islamic Revitalization in the hearts of the people and bring it all the way up to the status quo.
- Collectively, we are in a terrible shape. But you cannot deny the fact that there are some Muslims (a small percentage) who are true believers. However, Allah judges us at the Collective level.
I would think all of them prayed in their native tongue, since most of them were Arabs. Not that it matters though.
No, because Allah says
122 We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
4144 Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?" Say "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes) They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"
433 Surely We have made it an Arabic Quran that you may understand.
These ayaat refute your idea to pray in a native tongue, other than Arabic.
Samir
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Salaam,
I say the same thing by saying, "My prayers work".
Ah, good. Well yours work and mine work so lets keep doing it.
- Then what is the point of calling yourself a Muslim? It's like saying I'm a Buddhist but I technically don't follow any of their works because they are being oppressed; so therefore, they are not really Buddhists
Well, I dont consider 'muslims' as muslims by necessity. Only on a case by case basis. Most I met aren't muslims in quranic terms
- Yes, we are being oppressed. In fact, some Scholars say we are recieving the divine wrath of Allah for turning our backs to the Qur'an (with the support of many ahadith). We can only get out of this mess if we come back to the Qur'an, as well as the Sunnah.
So you're saying the Prophet practised SOMETHING else besides al-quraan? Wow, Allah would KILL him for doing that, man.
- That is why many Muslims join Islamic Movements, such as IONA, to bring about an Islamic Revitalization in the hearts of the people and bring it all the way up to the status quo.
It can't happen because those guys are associating God's laws with man's laws.
- Collectively, we are in a terrible shape. But you cannot deny the fact that there are some Muslims (a small percentage) who are true believers. However, Allah judges us at the Collective level.
Wrong. We all stand before Allah nafs by nafs. No soul bears the burden of another.
No, because Allah says etc
Allah says al-quraan is in arabic. Did he say salaat in Arabic? He said to ensure you understand all you say in salaat (4/43) yes, but nothing else about salaat-ing in Arabic.
Whats the problem with speaking to Allah in english, man? Allah understands, im sure of it.
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Peace everybody,
Dear Samir,
I apologize if this sounds arrogant, but is painfully obvious that your understanding of Salat is not Quranically based let alone Quranically sound.
Before you go any further with this, I suggest that you first read what salat IS NOT and after finishing that article, you can proceed to read what salat IS.
BOTH articles are based on The Quran.
Peace.
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Well, I dont consider 'muslims' as muslims by necessity. Only on a case by case basis. Most I met aren't muslims in quranic terms
That's why we have to do da'wah to Muslims. shock
So you're saying the Prophet practised SOMETHING else besides al-quraan? Wow, Allah would KILL him for doing that, man.
You didn't read my statement correctly. I was saying there are many ahadith which support the view that the wrath of Allah is on those who turn their backs to the Qur'an; this is also mentioned in the Qur'an.
It can't happen because those guys are associating God's laws with man's laws.
Agreed. That's why we establish a state that includes the Qur'an and Sunnah as the laws of the land.
Wrong. We all stand before Allah nafs by nafs. No soul bears the burden of another.
So I'm guessing you would disagree with the last ayah of Surah al Hajj? Perhaps, you would even say its 'abrogated'?
Even then, all the past nations were destroyed by Allah for not sticking to the truth such as 'Aad, Loot, Firaun and so on. The Qur'an talks about this a lot. Nations are judged at the collective level, not the individual level; if it were the individual level, then that would be insane because we have no control over each and every individual; but we do have control of what goes on in public (if we rule the land).
Allah says al-quraan is in arabic. Did he say salaat in Arabic? He said to ensure you understand all you say in salaat (4/43) yes, but nothing else about salaat-ing in Arabic.
Whats the problem with speaking to Allah in english, man? Allah understands, im sure of it.
What do you then recite in Salaat? Do you recite Qur'an at all? Then you are no different than a Christian or Jew; why don't you join them and pray like them? I don't think you even looked at the ayaat because these ayaat already refuted your statement
122 We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
4144 Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and a Messenger (who is) an Arab?" Say "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes) They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"
433 Surely We have made it an Arabic Quran that you may understand.
Here are a few points we can derive
- Qur'an was sent down in Arabic for a reason; this reason has wisdom behind it. It wasn't just because the people were Arab at that locality; it was because the language itself is perfect enough to hold the words of Allah.
- When you pray Salaat, you have to recite Qur'an; otherwise, it is not Salaat. If you recite Qur'an in your native tongue, it is as if you are denying this favor of Allah to recite the Qur'an in Arabic.
Bottom line These ayaat further prove that this Qur'an had to be sent down in Arabic and no other language on the face of the earth for a very special purpose. You will only understand this purpose when you understand Arabic of Qur'an in depth. It will blow your mind away.
Samir
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I apologize if this sounds arrogant, but is painfully obvious that your understanding of Salat is not Quranically based let alone Quranically sound.
And your Salaat is not Hadith based, let alone Qur'anic and Sunnah sound.
Samir
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Before you go any further with this, I suggest that you first read what salat IS NOT and after finishing that article, you can proceed to read what salat IS.
BOTH articles are based on The Quran.
Peace.
I give you a few lines of a refutation and nobody is able to counteract with the appropriate proof; you guys have to give me 40 pages to make one refutation. That says a lot.
I'll read it when I have time inshAllah.
Samir
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Salaam Samir,
That's why we establish a state that includes the Qur'an and Sunnah as the laws of the land.
Allah on the other hand has decided that alquran is the law .
Joe
1337 And thus have We revealed it, a true judgment in Arabic, and if you follow their low desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you shall not have against Allah any guardian or a protector.
Please don't treat the ayaat of Qur'an as erroneous slogans. I don't deny the ayah. This ayah is a very general statement; of course Allah's laws are above everyone elses law. The different aspects of Shari'ah that are found in ahadith were Wahi al Khafee, that is, Revelation that is not mentioned in the Qur'an. How do I know this? Because the Qur'an says that the Messenger (s) doesn't follow his vain desires.
Anyways, what about these
459 O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination.
592 Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil) if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner.
2454 Say "Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message).
4733 O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the apostle, and make not vain your deeds!
6412 So obey Allah, and obey His Messenger. but if ye turn back, the duty of Our Messenger is but to proclaim (the Message) clearly and openly.
Samir
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Salaam Samir,
Please don't treat the ayaat of Qur'an as erroneous slogans.
lol No I am not treating it as a wrong slogan. That's why I'm giving it to you because you are treating it as a thing to be ignored. lol
I don't deny the ayah.
Is that so? Do you say what you do not?
This ayah is a very general statement; of course Allah's laws are above everyone elses law.
No, it is awfully specific. "We have sent it down a LAW/hukman in Arabic".
Because the Qur'an says that the Messenger (s) doesn't follow his vain desires.
This is in referrence to the quran because his opponents often referred to it as a work of the rasool . Not wahi/inspiration that is not mentioned in the quran. Your devices are smashed in in the face of alhaqq.
Anyways, what about these
Yes, anyways let's look at your attempt to nullify the ayat I mentioned to you.
We are called to obey the rasool and Allah and people in a position of authority. How so? Only under the umbrella of the judgement of Allah . You go on seeking a judgement of ignorance whilst I shall seek Allah's and those who judge according to Allah's judgement.
Joe
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Salaam Samir,
Please don't treat the ayaat of Qur'an as erroneous slogans.
lol No I am not treating it as a wrong slogan. That's why I'm giving it to you because you are treating it as a thing to be ignored. lol
I don't deny the ayah.
Is that so? Do you say what you do not?
This ayah is a very general statement; of course Allah's laws are above everyone elses law.
No, it is awfully specific. "We have sent it down a LAW/hukman in Arabic".
Because the Qur'an says that the Messenger (s) doesn't follow his vain desires.
This is in referrence to the quran because his opponents often referred to it as a work of the rasool . Not wahi/inspiration that is not mentioned in the quran. Your devices are smashed in in the face of alhaqq.
Anyways, what about these
Yes, anyways let's look at your attempt to nullify the ayat I mentioned to you.
We are called to obey the rasool and Allah and people in a position of authority. How so? Only under the umbrella of the judgement of Allah . You go on seeking a judgement of ignorance whilst I shall seek Allah's and those who judge according to Allah's judgement.
Joe
And Allah loves those who loves His Messenger (s).
There was no attempt by me to nullify an ayah; I already said clearly that it is a general statement. The other ayaat I quote are more specific... unless if you are trying to nullify them. How would you explain this 'contradiction' then? You are the one who has just made a contradiction of Qur'an unless if you understand it the way it is supposed to be understood (i.e., using the ahadith).
I have just trapped you in a corner; if you cannot get out of this one, all our arguments are over and I have apparently won the victory and you must submit to not only the laws of Allah, but also the instructions He gave to our Prophet (s) to expand from his mouth (i.e., ahadith).
Samir