who is a messenger of God?
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JM Who should you choose as a messenger, between Rashad Khalifa, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Bah?'u'll?h, all the shia imams, and mquran ?
Kyle, choose me, choose me! Rashad Khalifa'll have you counting and ritualising all night! Plus you still have to go to Mecca! With me, you can go to Hajj in Philly provided you set up God's house there!
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Say We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and
The question is who is the "we" in . Does not the "we" refer to the prophets ?
Please check the preceding verses...No, the 'qul' in the verse was recited by the messenger onto the people. Therefore, believers in the message would have recited this.
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Peace be upon you,
I would ask the person to please relay the message they have come to relay. Its not a situation where you are to bow down to this persons feet or anything, it is a very natural occurence.
And then ?
Who should you choose as a messenger, between Rashad Khalifa, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Bah?'u'll?h, all the shia imams, and mquran ?
Its not about giving someone a TITLE, its about the information itself. When someone speaks TRUTH they are a messenger, any other time, they are not a messenger. Further, one does not have to pick between people, anyone can be a messenger, you probably recieve the message all day long and not realize it. For example, if you are a smoker and 4 people during the course of your day tell you that smoking is bad for your health and explian OBJECTIVELY exactly how it effects your vehicle(body), then you have just beenvisited by 4 messengers.
Yes. Truth comes from the God. But its not about some deep dark voice saying "my son, this is the truth..".
So, how can I be sure I am receiving inspiration from God ?
Excellent question!! This is the key to it all. The God explains that if there is something from "Him", that it can be VERIFIED! D So what yuo do is take the information and TEST IT! D If it is Truth, it will work everytime, if not it is not Truth.
Say ?We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and
The question is who is the "we" in . Does not the "we" refer to the prophets ?
Please check the preceding verses...The "we" is all of us.
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Kyle, choose me, choose me! Rashad Khalifa'll have you counting and ritualising all night! Plus you still have to go to Mecca! With me, you can go to Hajj in Philly provided you set up God's house there!
lol
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Peace be upon you Kyle,
Its not about giving someone a TITLE, its about the information itself. When someone speaks TRUTH they are a messenger, any other time, they are not a messenger. Further, one does not have to pick between people, anyone can be a messenger, you probably recieve the message all day long and not realize it. For example, if you are a smoker and 4 people during the course of your day tell you that smoking is bad for your health and explian OBJECTIVELY exactly how it effects your vehicle(body), then you have just beenvisited by 4 messengers.
Agreed, and I'd like to add if i can here. These 4 guys are 'activating' thier messengers within (3/164 - min anfusihim, from thier souls). They're not neccessarily letting that part of themselves take over, thus becoming 'ar-rasool'. In order to do that, you must live according the book, teach the book and wisdom and facilitate growth.
Excellent question!! This is the key to it all. The God explains that if there is something from "Him", that it can be VERIFIED! So what yuo do is take the information and TEST IT! If it is Truth, it will work everytime, if not it is not Truth
.That's right. 'al-haqq' if we see 13/17 is that which lasts and if of benefit for humanity.
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Excellent additions, especially this one..
Agreed, and I'd like to add if i can here. These 4 guys are 'activating' thier messengers within (3/164 - min anfusihim, from thier souls). They're not neccessarily letting that part of themselves take over, thus becoming 'ar-rasool'. In order to do that, you must live according the book, teach the book and wisdom and facilitate growth.
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Salaam Alleikum Everybody
I just can't resist to jump in into this discussion even I intended not to say anything about Prophethood and Messangership until I finish the whole message.
I am still in my data collection process and have only looked into Sura 3 and Sura 4 of Qur'an which clearly in agreement with what JM is saying.
That does not mean that I will stop. I will keep looking because Allah Taala make me understand 381 in a very clearly.
381 And when Allah took the covenant of the Prophets (saying),?Certainly, whatever I have given you of the Book and the wisdom, then there comes to you a Messenger confirming that which is with you, you must believe in him and support him.? He said, ?Do you affirm and take on that (condition) My Covenant?? They said, ?We affirm.? He said, ?Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.?
The question is will there be more Books (Al Kitab) after the completion of Qur'an. I believe there will be no revelation after Qur'an reference is 5101.
What is the message of these Messangers? Khalifah, Mirza Ghulam, Ahmad, Shareef, and then there are Imams Aga Khan, Syedna Buhran un din and many more who have contributed in the division of Muslims for material gains. I don't see any benefit except further dividing muslims into smaller groups.
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Peace be upon you KGB,
The question is will there be more Books (Al Kitab) after the completion of Qur'an. I believe there will be no revelation after Qur'an reference is 5101.
The God did not send down the book called "Koran", the God inspires man with the truth. Man then writes it down as a form of pasing the message.
The God reveals universal law(al kitaab) to any who wishes to know the correct path and strives for such knowledge. Anything that is read is described as "quran" (notice the lower case).
What is the message of these Messangers? Khalifah, Mirza Ghulam, Ahmad, Shareef, and then there are Imams Aga Khan, Syedna Buhran un din and many more who have contributed in the division of Muslims for material gains. I don't see any benefit except further dividing muslims into smaller groups.
To be clear, I have not give ANYONE the title of messenger, only those who speak TRUTH are messengers ONLY AT THE TIME THEY ARE GIVING TRUTH, otherwise the true messenger remains within man waiting to be uncovered.
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Peace be upon you KGB,
Take your time, there is no rush on our peaceful discussion D
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Peace be upon you,
All of us are divine, we all have the "ruh" within us. The problem is that most of us identify with the animal side of us rather than the divine side.
If someone delivers truth to us, we follow it, thats all D
Simple D
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Salaamun alaikum guys,
I just can't resist to jump in into this discussion even I intended not to say anything about Prophethood and Messangership until I finish the whole message.
I am still in my data collection process and have only looked into Sura 3 and Sura 4 of Qur'an which clearly in agreement with what JM is saying.There's no point in rushing. As Kyle said, a peaceful discussion has no rush.
381 And when Allah took the covenant of the Prophets (saying),Certainly, whatever I have given you of the Book and the wisdom, then there comes to you a Messenger confirming that which is with you, you must believe in him and support him. He said, Do you affirm and take on that (condition) My Covenant? They said, We affirm. He said, Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.
The question is will there be more Books (Al Kitab) after the completion of Qur'an. I believe there will be no revelation after Qur'an reference is 5101.This is the messenger I was mentioning before, KGB. The personality inside all of us. His personality confirms that which is with the Prophets.
I believe that al-quraan is the detailling of al-kitaab (god's system) and unless it disappears from the earth, there will no more such books.
What is the message of these Messangers? Khalifah, Mirza Ghulam, Ahmad, Shareef, and then there are Imams Aga Khan, Syedna Buhran un din and many more who have contributed in the division of Muslims for material gains. I don't see any benefit except further dividing muslims into smaller groups.
Brother, its not about division of muslims but the division of humankind. The essence of humankind is one nation but differences arose between them (2/213). So we need to look towards unity of humankind itself.
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Peace be upon you Kyle,
The God did not send down the book called "Koran", the God inspires man with the truth. Man then writes it down as a form of pasing the message.
Dude, the Quran says 'the month of ramadhan is which is SENT DOWN al-quraan...' (2/185)
This doesn't mean you're wrong with the second part. Allah inspires man with al-haqq too. He simply finds clarification from al-quraan.
The God reveals universal law(al kitaab) to any who wishes to know the correct path and strives for such knowledge. Anything that is read is described as "quran" (notice the lower case).
I'd use the word 'declared' as opposed to 'read' because 'iqra bismi rabbika' is more suited to be translated as 'declare in the name of ur lord'.
So anything declared is a 'quraan' (10/15 confirms this) but Al-quraan is the declaration which God authenticates as from Him. This is why even the word 'hadha'/this has after it the word 'AL-quraan' (see 10/37).
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Salaam Alleikum Kyle
I read your post very carefully understand what you are saying. I sure am not at the intelleuctal level as you are with understanding the Message. I keep praying Rab e Zidni Ilmun which is part of your signature and maybe someday I have your level of understanding until that time Kitab to me is book i.e. Qur'an and Turat, Zubur Injeel.
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Salaam Alleikum MQuran
You too are above my intellecutal level. I will continue to look into Qur'an regarding Messangership and Prophethood. You reply sure is very interesting.
Hey he is only 5" 2 inch high!!!
Shorter than me!!! -)Regards,
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Salaamun alaikum,
KGB You too are above my intellecutal level. I will continue to look into Qur'an regarding Messangership and Prophethood. You reply sure is very interesting.
You're overestimating me again. 'Intellectual level' is a relative thing. Kyle and I have been doing this for quite some time now, so its nothing to do with intellectual level. Kyle was smart enough to dismiss Mecca long before I even contemplated the possibility so these things also come at relatively different speeds for various people. I admire your open-mindedness and honesty though. Like I say, there some who come here to impress , vent frustrations etc but you're not one of them. Study away please and please share with us what you find.
LTHey he is only 5" 2 inch high!!!
Shorter than me!!!You need to add a foot to that, man. Doesn't increase my intellectual level any though but it does decrease my chances of sitting comfortably in a bus.
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Peace be upon you MQ, KGB, and all,
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The God did not send down the book called "Koran", the God inspires man with the truth. Man then writes it down as a form of pasing the message.Dude, the Quran says 'the month of ramadhan is which is SENT DOWN al-quraan...' (2/185)
This doesn't mean you're wrong with the second part. Allah inspires man with al-haqq too. He simply finds clarification from al-quraan.I read it as "the scorching full moon is when the reading is sent down". Yes, the book called "Al Quraan" can be described with that word "quran"(reading), but a deeper meaning is implied, it is the witnessing of the Laws of the universe.
The moon has a great effect on the earth, and we are humans (humus+man= earth man). Anyone with toothaches or other pains knows the effect the moon has on the body and the mental hospitals can verify the effect the moon has on the mental condition, thats why they are calle LUNAtics. The full moon is the time when our Nafs is most open, most receptive, this is the time when we understand things the best. The nighttime is the best daily and the full moon monthly, everything runs according to a cycle.
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The God reveals universal law(al kitaab) to any who wishes to know the correct path and strives for such knowledge. Anything that is read is described as "quran" (notice the lower case).I'd use the word 'declared' as opposed to 'read' because 'iqra bismi rabbika' is more suited to be translated as 'declare in the name of ur lord'.
So anything declared is a 'quraan' (10/15 confirms this) but Al-quraan is the declaration which God authenticates as from Him. This is why even the word 'hadha'/this has after it the word 'AL-quraan' (see 10/37).
I hope we can continue this conversation on another thread, I think we are close to an understanding, but I need to clarify what you are saying so I can formulate a meaningful response. But to end this particlular response, any thing that is witnessed/read and verified as true(not contradictory to verification) fits the description of "quran".
My studies have led me to conclude so far that this reading that has been titled "QURAN" is truth. I cannot explain all verses yet so I cannot say 100%. But it is a guide , pointing us to the true goal, so it does not matter if I have 100% trust yet, what matters is that I am witnessing the Universal Law of the God and correcting my behavior that I might enjoy PEACE constantly by going with the flow, not against it.