How was adam sent to earth?
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
I found it a bit complex to comprehend what you stated about the "Malaika", "The Angels",
Check the root M-L-K to see it deals with CONTROL
Where do you get this word "angel" from and how do you envision an "angel"?
Peace mate,
M-L-K deals with posision, while I might agree that it may deal with control, but again it was used to describe a creature, why I have to make things complicated?, I did not call them angels, but I accpeted what Allah called them in His Quran by His own words this way
but what I found is much easier to understand and comperhend is whar their Creator said about them in His own words as stated in the Quran, so I believe they are physical creatuers created from Light
Please show the verse that states they are created from light.
I have to look for you mate, most of my quran work that I remember were done years ago, I concentrate now on laws than the heaven and earth creation as I already submitted to what Allah has told me regarding all these creatures, but I might be mixed up, but I will search the Quran and confirm, thanks for your patience
they were created to enforce God's laws and wishs,
They were told to submit to "adam" (mans intellect)
again very hard man to comprehend, sorry my mind can't buy it
"while He does not need them to force it as He does not need our worrship to Him",
The God is in need of nothing, correct, but the God uses Its creation to manifest Itself.
if you mean to show His mighy power in His creation then I have to agree
they also have jobs, like paradise guards, hell guards, clerks who write what we do, some to control the clouds, some for the winds and tornados, others for enforcing death, etc..
Yes, the forces of control are used to initiate activities of the universe, man has been given access to them by his intellect.
really, so man has caused all these tornados hitting america now?
in fact I read in te oast that the angels are the easiest of the cretures that Allah creates and there are zillions of them and again I tend to believe it based on the fact that every human has two angels to document what he/she does in the whole life as stated in the Quran
You read this where? I cannot see how you objectively verified suc a statement, therefore it remains conjecture, which is no substitute for the truth., respectfully.
I agree, it has no merit, but I read books since I was 8 years old, I'm a reading addict, and it was in one of my books that I read ages ago, the book was not a tale story, rather was supported by verses from the Quran that can indirectly support the idea, I might try to find those verses for you
idolfree1 wrote
"adam" is the intellect, when it is not submitting to the God's WORD, it has the capability of causing mayhem, like we have seen over and over in the history of man. It is a segregating faculty and the wicked's greatest tool is DIVIDE and conquer. This is why the concept of ONENESS/UNITY is so important.
I agree but I hope you mean a physical intellect Adam with an not just the intellect?No, I mean intellect alone. It is personified into a metaphorical story to help understandnig.
then I disagree, beacsie I toatlly belive 500% the Adam was a pgysical entity on its own like me and you
cheers
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
Peace mate,
M-L-K deals with posision
Please elaborate.
while I might agree that it may deal with control, but again it was used to describe a creature, why I have to make things complicated?, I did not call them angels, but I accpeted what Allah called them in His Quran by His own words this way
The word "angel" is no where in this reading(quran), only "malaika".
Please show the verse that states they are created from light.
I have to look for you mate, most of my quran work that I remember were done years ago, I concentrate now on laws than the heaven and earth creation as I already submitted to what Allah has told me regarding all these creatures, but I might be mixed up, but I will search the Quran and confirm, thanks for your patience
I will be patient. I will tell you that my research has found no such statement.
They were told to submit to "adam" (mans intellect)
again very hard man to comprehend, sorry my mind can't buy it
I respect that, just dont totally close your mind to the idea.
Yes, the forces of control are used to initiate activities of the universe, man has been given access to them by his intellect.
really, so man has caused all these tornados hitting america now?
Please note that I said man has ACCESS to them.
You read this where? I cannot see how you objectively verified suc a statement, therefore it remains conjecture, which is no substitute for the truth., respectfully.
I agree, it has no merit, but I read books since I was 8 years old, I'm a reading addict, and it was in one of my books that I read ages ago, the book was not a tale story, rather was supported by verses from the Quran that can indirectly support the idea, I might try to find those verses for you
I will be patient on this.
No, I mean intellect alone. It is personified into a metaphorical story to help understandnig.
then I disagree, beacsie I toatlly belive 500% the Adam was a pgysical entity on its own like me and you
The percentage of belief does not matter, it can never compare to verifyable truth. We can confirm the intellect and its interaction in life, we cannot do so for the alleged first man, so there is always room for doubt, no matter how high the percentage rises. D
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Qur'an did not tell us when the Angels were created. The common belief that Angels were created by light is not mentioned in Qur'an.
Humans and Jinns are the two intelligent creations which are mentioned in Qur'an. I have different understanding of Iblis.
Ahmad,
There is short ayat which do mention that there were some creatures on earth which God says even not worth mentioning. What they were? I have no idea. I will give you the reference God Willing while revising Qur'an.
The following verse according to my understanding is regarding human creation which do go through evolution.
'7117 "'And God has produced you from the earth growing (gradually),
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Qur'an did not tell us when the Angels were created. The common belief that Angels were created by light is not mentioned in Qur'an.
Khi- Salam. Oh yes it does
Praise be to GOD, Initiator of the heavens and the earth, and appointer of the angels TO BE MESSENGERS WITH WINGS - two, three, and four (wings). He increases the CREATION as He wills. GOD is Omnipotent.
Did we CREATE THE ANGELS to be females? Did they witness that?
Also consoder
Had we sent an angel, we would have sent him in the form of a man, and we would have kept them just as confused as they are confused now.
Thus according to the Quran angels are supernatural beings which come to this world in the form of men as it happened with quite a few messengers in the past, also reported in the Quran. GOD Bless! -
There is no verse which point out when Angels were created. There is no such verse which says that Angels were created by light.
Khi- Salam. I know that GOD doesnt say that angels were created by light. Thats not the point but they are part of GOD's creations and they are MESSENGERS WITH WINGS which appear on earth in the form of men. GOD Bless!
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People, people!!!
This discussion is pointless. Believe me, you could be discussing the topic for a hundred years and never reach an agreement.
My advice is to knock it off lolFiguring out who or what Adam was is not our goal.
There are other more important topics to be discussed.
I have spoken...
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SaLaM stillearning and Ahmed
Brother from what i understand at the moment, in verse the wickdness of human was not yet revealed to them. To explain it, they were in paradise. Do you think you will be wicked if you get into paradise? I mean, do you think you will be having any thoughts about sins if you are in paradise? We are all born capable of murdereing, raping, killing, stealing. But Adam was not yet given these traits. Or to be more precise, adam was not made known that he possed such traits. I hope you understand. There was a time i didnt know programming until i took a look at it. From then on it came naturally to me. Had i never looked at programming, i would have never known that i have the skills for it. I hope this makes sense.
As for why did they run to cover themselves up with leaves, well, from my sunni days i was told that when they ate the forbidden fruit, they became naked. so they rushed to cover themselves up with leaves.
Ahmed, brother i dont really know what to say as much of what you said cannot be really verified. But it is very intersting and i thank you for that.
As for what angels are created from, Prophet Muhammad said that Angels were created from light/nur . So.... looooooooooolllll rotfl
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Peace be upon you all,
Idmkhizar-
Had we sent a malaika(controlling force), we would have sent him in the form of a man, and we would have kept them just as confused as they are confused now.
Human beings have malaika within thier very own spirit/mind(nafs).
Pazuzu-
This discussion is pointless. Believe me, you could be discussing the topic for a hundred years and never reach an agreement.
My advice is to knock it off
Figuring out who or what Adam was is not our goal.
There are other more important topics to be discussed.The God discusses "adam" and "malaika" so we are certainly supposed to get guidance from these concepts, there is nothing more important than understanding the guidance. The story of "adam" and the prostratin malaika are from the BEGINNING story, shoulod we skip the beginning ad try to pick up the story in the middle?
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Salaamun alaikum,
KyleHuman beings have malaika within thier very own spirit/mind(nafs).
6/8-9 uses malakun not 'mala-i-kah', Kyle. Im unsure of the differences between the two but im leaning towards 'al-malaikah' being intelligent forces,since they are said to converse with God.
PazuzuThis discussion is pointless. Believe me, you could be discussing the topic for a hundred years and never reach an agreement.
My advice is to knock it off
Figuring out who or what Adam was is not our goal.
There are other more important topics to be discussed.Rather strange since al-quraan is called 'clarification of the guidance' (bayyinatu min al-hudaa, 2/185). Therefore, all information in it must have a significance in our lives. How do you determine a 'more important' or 'less important' topic in al-quraan?
KyleThe God discusses "adam" and "malaika" so we are certainly supposed to get guidance from these concepts, there is nothing more important than understanding the guidance. The story of "adam" and the prostratin malaika are from the BEGINNING story, shoulod we skip the beginning ad try to pick up the story in the middle?
Sorry to be pedantic yet again, but this story is not 'THE beginning' but rather 'A beginning'. Please see 7/11 we created YOU then gave YOU shape THEN we said to al-malaika , sujud to ADAM....Adam is a condition in all of us, part of our capacity for perfection.
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This discussion is pointless. Believe me, you could be discussing the topic for a hundred years and never reach an agreement.
My advice is to knock it off
Figuring out who or what Adam was is not our goal.
There are other more important topics to be discussed.The God discusses "adam" and "malaika" so we are certainly supposed to get guidance from these concepts, there is nothing more important than understanding the guidance. The story of "adam" and the prostratin malaika are from the BEGINNING story, shoulod we skip the beginning ad try to pick up the story in the middle?
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PazuzuThis discussion is pointless. Believe me, you could be discussing the topic for a hundred years and never reach an agreement.
My advice is to knock it off
Figuring out who or what Adam was is not our goal.
There are other more important topics to be discussed.Rather strange since al-quraan is called 'clarification of the guidance' (bayyinatu min al-hudaa, 2/185). Therefore, all information in it must have a significance in our lives. How do you determine a 'more important' or 'less important' topic in al-quraan?
Ask yourself this
Is the question of "How was Adam sent to Earth" absolutely necessary for our salvation?
Personally, I'd rather ponder over the following verses
6151 , 6152, 6153.
I have spoken
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Peace be with you Pazuzu,
Ask yourself this
Is the question of "How was Adam sent to Earth" absolutely necessary for our salvation?
'Absolutely necessary' as opposed to what? Is there any classification of importance in al-quraan itself?
My understanding is, I don't even need al-quraan for salvation. It's a clarification of God's guidance. I could grope about in the dark with a trial and error method. So to answer your question, no. It's not absolutely necessary for my salvation. However, since its part of al-quraan, its as important to me as any other part.
Personally, I'd rather ponder over the following verses
6151 , 6152, 6153.Fair enough but there are terms there like 'siratun mustaqeem' which are explained elsewhere in the book. The book is one cohesive whole in which parts explain other parts. No part is more or less important. Of course, if you believe otherwise, I'm happy to listen to your views?
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Peace again Pazuzu,
May I say, I think you have a penchant for linguistics after reading your posts ) Hope you will share much more with us as time goes by.
After all, remember that the verses dealing with Genesis belong to the "Mutashabih" part of the Kitab. Each generation can interpret them according to the scientific knowledge available in their age. Maybe 50 years from now, new discoveries will be made, and they will scoff at our interpretations. Remember also that they are not essential for our salvation. You won't go to Hell for not understanding the ultimate meaning of these verses. ( Only God does )
How do you differentiate between muhkamat and mutashabihaat ? Is there a particular criteria ?
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Peace be upon you MQ,
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KyleHuman beings have malaika within thier very own spirit/mind(nafs).6/8-9 uses malakun not 'mala-i-kah', Kyle. Im unsure of the differences between the two but im leaning towards 'al-malaikah' being intelligent forces,since they are said to converse with God.
Thanks for the correction. I will be discussing malaika further shortly.
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KyleThe God discusses "adam" and "malaika" so we are certainly supposed to get guidance from these concepts, there is nothing more important than understanding the guidance. The story of "adam" and the prostratin malaika are from the BEGINNING story, shoulod we skip the beginning ad try to pick up the story in the middle?Sorry to be pedantic yet again, but this story is not 'THE beginning' but rather 'A beginning'. Please see 7/11 we created YOU then gave YOU shape THEN we said to al-malaika , sujud to ADAM....Adam is a condition in all of us, part of our capacity for perfection.
Yes, I agree, this is the same thing I was trying to convey. I do not mind the corrections, keep them coming.
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Peace be upon you,
When you take the stories literaly, then they lose importance. When you take them for the underlying guidance of our own BEINGS, then ALL OF IT is meaningful.
What is more important than knowing how your being works and what causes us all to "fall"?
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Peace again Pazuzu,
May I say, I think you have a penchant for linguistics after reading your posts Hope you will share much more with us as time goes by.
In time, brother...In time...
(Keep a lookout for a thread I'm posting soon in the Archaeology section )
How do you differentiate between muhkamat and mutashabihaat ? Is there a particular criteria ?
That the verses of the Reading are classified into two categories "Muhkam" and "Mutashabih" can't be denied. The Reading itself states that. As to what criteria is used to differentiate, I think the only way to find out is simply to read. This is just another one of those instances where examples serve as the best explanation, and tend to speak for themselves.
The criteria itself is often disputed. Anyway, this is how I see it.The "Muhkamat" are ususally the verses that deal with the System. They are the verses that we, as submitters, need to understand and apply in our daily lives to gain God's favor and live a happy life ( and afterlife ).
Anything dealing with the concept of true, idol-free submission, laws of behavior, honesty, modesty, the prohibitions of certain foods, the ten commandmants, almsgiving, marriage, divorce, etc... is considered as "muhkam". Such verses do not require interpretation. They are understood LITERALLYThe "Mutashabih" are verses that can have different interpretations depending on the age we live in, and what scientific knowledge we have.
Some people accept them literally, some don't. It's a matter of opinion.
Examples abound but now is not the time ( nor is this the thread ) for such matters.
Some examples include Judgement Day, heaven, hell, angels, stories of past nations, the "miracles" (signs) of the prophets, etc...I hope you can see the difference.
I may be wrong, but this is how I see them. Your ideas are welcome. -
SaLaM Pazuzu
I agree that there are verses with both literall and allagorical meanings. But here is the thing. God says the scripture is clear. So why not just say is as it really is? For example
1] there is only one God and none like Him - Is literal
2] Like two snow flakes are not alike, such is god (probably a crappy example looolll ) - Allagorical, still the literal is much more easier and clear.
This is how i see it.