Pilgrimage - Jerusalem

Layth

Peace all,

Here is where I now stand in brief

Pilgrimage was always to Jerusalem "Bekka"
The location of "Temple Mount" is the "Kaba" (Square)
This stone is the one on which Abraham was "tested" with a sacrifice (Maqam=Situation/Station/Place)
Qibla is "political orientaion" and has nothing to do with Pilgrimage.
The Prophet changing his "Qibla" was when he emigrated to Medina and made it into a new political capital.
The Masjid Al-Haram is the "political" building and is NOT related to Pilgrimage.
The Masjid Al-Haram was located in Jerusalem (where is not clear) and was the place for government in the final days of the Prophet.

I believe the Pilgrimage has never "changed" and cannot be changed.

The confusion of Mecca and the Qibla is bad luggage we picked-up from the Sunnis & Shia who are always out to confuse.

Layth

Roshan

7th century Jerusalem was under the Roman empire and arabic wasn't spoken there? ?

Peace

This 'reply' is more of a general comment, although I felt that perhaps this sentence had some relevence.

I am currently reading 'A History of Israel and the Holy Land' by Michael Avi Y.... and friends (with a forward from Shimon Peres!). Anyway in this book it states that in the last half of the 7th century (I cannot remember the exact dates) that Muslims were making pilgrimage to Jerusalem and doing the same rituals that they do in Makkah. Bearing in mind the current discussions, I thought this was a interesting point.

Roshan

JHamza

Is City of Peace in 002.126
YUSUFALI And remember Abraham said "My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day." He said "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!" a reference to Jerusalem,Yerusalayim in Hebrew means city of Peace,and was just wondering if there was a connection between the name of Jerusalem and the Arabic word or name???

JHamza

Salam JHamza, all,

Is City of Peace in 002.126
YUSUFALI And remember Abraham said "My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day." He said "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!" a reference to Jerusalem,Yerusalayim in Hebrew means city of Peace,and was just wondering if there was a connection between the name of Jerusalem and the Arabic word or name???

In the Arabic verse, Abraham says "... ijAAal hatha baladan aminan.." literally "... make this country/place safe/secure...". I still don't understand why "baladan" has been translated as "city" while in other verses in Quran the city/village is "madina" and/or "quarya". What I know "aminan" is different from "salem" (peacefull/healthy/good) and both can be seen in other verses. I just believe there MUST be a reason why God the All-Mighty uses one word instead of another in Quran (the Arabic Quran).

And God knows best.
Peace. Myr.

Salam Myr,
Thanks for the reply..and thanks for the explaination of the Arabic..that helps out alot...

Peace

gazzali

peace

i have read your article petra. Is there anyway u could send me a copy for my study.

thank u
gazzali

Jafar

Salam

I have post a similar thought on this one...

Based on Quran 1025

Wa Allahu yadAAoo ila dari alssalam wa yahdee man yashao ila siratin mustaqeem.
And / but Allah call to the Home of Peace (Dari al-Salam) and He guide whom He pleaseth to a way that is straight.

Does "Home Of Peace" = "Dari al-Salam" = "Yerushaliyem" = "Jerusalem"?

Salam

jankren

Anyone could please tell me references containing informations which show that early muslims made their pilgrimage to Yerusalem. Thanks so much for any help in advance.

Alen

Salam.

So is the pilgrimage in Jerusalem or in Mekka?
Another thing i heard that once you visit the Jerusalem and if you get across the border to Israel, just for fun, than you can't enter United Arab Emirates or Dubai? Is this true?

Thanks.
Peace.

noble

Salam Bro. Layth,
I really appreciate your efforts in this work, and I am almost 100% convinced that the Pilgrimage referred to in the Quran is in Jerusalem as you so well demonstrated in your latest article.
The only thing for me remaining to explain is Safa and Marwa? what are they? where are they? and what is their significance/function. Some ground work need to be done on that, and I pray The Creator will give us the answer as what they mean.
Noble

noble

Peace
An idea Does Safa mean in Arabic "Filtered" or "Purified"
and Marwa means "Water spring used to quench thirst"?
Just some thoughts...

Yosemite

This is seriously confusing. For many years the sects have said and have been doing the pilgimage to mecca, but actually the Quran might state that it's another place?

ahmadazwa

I thought I read somewhere in here that Safa and Marwa are suggested to be the two mountains Mt Zion and Mt Olives (Jebel ez-Zaitun), no?

unknownuser

Peace all,

For an understanding of what "safa" and "marwah" are, please see the following discussion

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7503.0

The conclusion in the above discussion resulted in the following translation of 2158

The camel and the sheep that give a lot of milk (safa) and the stone on which they are cooked/slaughtered (marwah) are from what The God makes us aware with (sha3air) so whomever visits the house or maintains there is no blame on him if he passes by/partakes (yattawwafa) in them and whoever does good voluntarily, then The God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.

As far as "bakkah" is concerned, please see the following link for a discussion about "bibakkata" by brother Anwar

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10079.msg54622#msg54622

Also see the following by Anwar

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7199.msg9648#msg9648

Brother Ayman agrees that "bakkah" is not a meaningless proper name per his following post

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg112175#msg112175

Thus 396 would be translated as

396 Truly the best/foremost house placed/established for people is "in a ranking above the rest"/"with much crowding"/"bibakkata"; blessed and a guidance for the worlds.

The location of the house is "DO NOT SET UP PARTNERS WITH THE GOD"

And when we assigned to Ibrahim the house's place/location THAT DO NOT PARTNER WITH ME A THING, and cleanse my house for the passers by, and the remaining, and the humbly hearing and obeying.

The only requirements according to al-qur'aan for the "bayt"/house where "hajj" takes place are

People do not set up any partners with The God at the location of the house/"bayt" (see 2226).
It is a safe place where people can assemble without fearing oppression or persecution (see 2125).

Thus the "hajj" could be at any house established for The God where no partners are set up with The God, and where it is safe and secure for the people to assemble.

Please see the following for additional relevant info

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10673.msg61263#msg61263

THERE IS NO QUR'AANIC EVIDENCE FOR HAJJ AT JERUSALEM. This theory is based on the misunderstanding of the COMMON NOUN "BAKKATA" as a proper name, as shown above. This is similar to the post qur'aanic hijacking of other common nouns from al-qur'aan and their usage as proper names, such as "makkata", "masjid al-aqsa", "safa", "marwah", "kaaba" etc.

almarh0m

Salamun alaykum

If you care to check available records on Jerussalem , you will find that The City has not experienced Peace for the best part of 10,000 years . Nothing peaceful about The City except its name .

Salaam

Zidane

Peace All,

Full respect to all.

Someone suggested to me that

258 And We said "Enter this town, and eat from it as plentifully as you wish. And enter the passageway by crouching, and say "Our load is removed," so that your errors will be forgiven, and We will increase for the good doers."

Seeing the context, 247 and other posts, "this" town was Jerusalem and if you don't look at the quotes (are there quotes in the Arabic? I know little.) then "this" would surely be the same place as it was being revealed to Muhammad at the time.

And also

2126 And Abraham said "My Lord, make this town secure, and provide for its inhabitants of the fruits for whoever believes in God and the Last Day." He said "As for he who rejects, I will let him enjoy for a while, then I will force him to the retribution of the Fire, what a miserable destiny!"
2127 And as Abraham raised the foundations from the Sanctuary with Ishmael "Our Lord accept this from us, You are the Hearer, the Knowledgeable."

Reading the context, I think that both "this" in 258 and 2126 would be referring to the same town right? What you think?

May God Guide.

Jafar

Anyone could please tell me references containing informations which show that early muslims made their pilgrimage to Yerusalem. Thanks so much for any help in advance.

Some examples of early muslims who made their pilgrimage (Hagg) to Jerusalem/Yerushaliyem/City or House Of Peace ?
No problems, I give you a bunch of very early muslims whose name is clearly mentioned in the Quran..

Ibrahim
David / Daud
Solomon / Sulayman
Jacob / Yakub
Isa / Jesus / Yashua
John / Yochanan / Yahya
Zachary / Zakkariya
Miriam / Maria (Mother of Yashua / Isa / Jesus)
Jonas / Yunus
Muhammad Ibnu Abdullah
Isaac / Yitzhak
Yishmeel / Ishmail

Need more?

Salam / Peace

unknownuser

Peace Jankren,

Anyone could please tell me references containing informations which show that early muslims made their pilgrimage to Yerusalem. Thanks so much for any help in advance.

The following from

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Dome_Of_The_Rock/hajjdome.html

The Shiite historian al-Yaqubi writing in his Tarikh made an interesting allegation that the Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik built Dome of the Rock to divert the Hajj from Makkah to Jerusalem to outdo his rival Abdullah b. al-Zubayr. He said

Abd al-Malik prevented the people of Sham from the hajj and this is because Ibn al-Zubayr was taking the pledge of allegience from the pilgrims. When Abd al-Malik had found out about this, he prevented them from setting out to Makkah. But the people protested and said "Do you prevent us from doing the pilgrimage to the Sacred House of Allah while it is a duty from Allah upon us ?" He said "Here is Ibn Shihabuddin al-Zuhri narrating to you that the Messenger of Allah said "The caravans should not be set out except for three mosques, the Sacred Mosque, my present Mosque and the Mosque of Jerusalem" stands for the Sacred Mosque for you. And here is the Rock on it is narrated that the Prophet set his foot before ascending to the heavens, it stands for the Kabah. Then he built a Dome on the Rock, suspended silk curtains on it and appointed servants for it. And told the people to revolve around it like they revolve around the Kabah and so it was during the rule of Bani Umayyah.

In the passage of his Muhammedanische Studien, Goldziher puts forward in detail the theory that Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik, by erecting the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, intended to outsmart his rival Abdallah b. al-Zubayr, who exploited the holiness of Makkah, his capital, for his own political ends. Using al-Ya`qubi's material Goldziher wrote

When the Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik wished the stop the pilgrimages to Mecca because he was worried lest his rival Abd Allah b. Zubayr should force the Syrians journeying to the holy places in Hijaz to pay him homage, he had to recourse to the expedient of the doctrine of the vicarious hajj to the Qubbat al-Sakhra in Jerusalem. He decreed that the obligatory circumambulation (tawaf) could take place at the sacred place in Jerusalem with the same validity as that around the Ka`ba ordained in Islamic Law. The pious theologian al-Zuhri was given the task of justifying this politically motivated reform of religious life by making up and spreading a saying traced back to the Prophet, according to which there are three mosques to which people may make pilgrimages those in Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem.

Goldziher's theory had been adopted, uncritically or with some criticism, by many early orientalists and a few recent ones; some of them are Creswell, Rippin, van Ess, and Elad. Their evidence is largely based on texts of a Shiite historian al-Yaqubi (c. 874 CE) and of an orthodox priest from Alexandria, Eutychius (d. 940 CE). In order to justify their theory they propose that the plan of the rock with the two ambulatories around the rock itself, originated with the liturgical requirements of the tawaf.

The Christian missionaries, as usual, get very excited when they get something with which they can create doubts in the minds of Muslims. One such example is the writing of Joseph Smith where he says

Certainly Muslim tradition suggests the Dome of the Rock may have been the early religious centre for Islam. The caliph Suleyman, who reigned up to 717 AD, went to Mecca to ask about the Hajj. He was not satisfied with the reply, and chose instead to follow 'Abd al-Malik, travelling to the Dome of the Rock.

We are not supplied with references that state the "Muslim tradition" that says that "the Dome of the Rock may have been the early religious centre of Islam" and that the caliph "chose instead to follow `Abd al-Malik, travelling to the Dome of the Rock." As usual, it is left for the Muslims, to supply the uninformed missionary with the missing information.

References

Ahmad b. Abu Yaqub Ibn Wadih al-Yaqubi (Ed. M. T. Houtsma), Tarikh, 1883, Volume II, Leiden, p. 311.

I. Goldziher (Ed. S. M. Stern), Muslim Studies (Muhammedanische Studien), 1971, Volume II, Atherton New York and Aldine Chicago, pp. 44-45.

K. A. C. Creswell, A Short Account Of Early Muslim Architecture, 1968, Librairie Du Liban, Beirut, pp. 17-18.

A. Rippin, Muslims Their Religious Beliefs And Practices, 1990, Volume I (The Formative Period), Routledge London & New York, pp. 53-54.

J. van Ess, "Abd al-Malik And The Dome Of The Rock An Analysis Of Some Texts", in J. Raby & J. Johns (Ed.), Bayt Al-Maqdis Abd al-Malik's Jerusalem, 1992, Part 1, Oxford University Press Oxford (UK), pp. 89-104.

A. Elad, Medieval Jerusalem And Islamic Worship, 1995, E. J. Brill, Leiden, pp. 158-163.

A. Elad, "Why Did Abd al-Malik Build The Dome Of The Rock? A Re-Examination of Muslim Sources", in J. Raby & J. Johns (Ed.), Bayt Al-Maqdis Abd al-Malik's Jerusalem, 1992, Part 1, Oxford University Press Oxford (UK), pp. 33-58.

Joseph Smith's article http//debate.org.uk/topics/isamasih/apr99/archeo.htm

The allegations against the Qur'aan in Joseph Smith's article and some other misconceptions were refuted by Ayman in the following posts in an internet discussion

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/41a51328bdca3c80?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/730fe6e654dd9242?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/51a91e7c64b57fb6?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/221ffb07a5dcb04b?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/ebe1e5f7b9e67f0e?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/170416c761b02771?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/45468e83c8d780b4?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/4a3c6d6a13f7df1c?

The complete discussion in which Ayman participated can be found at

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/browse_thread/thread/783540f26de114a0/2a42085a49ad9a9a?lnk=raot#2a42085a49ad9a9a

Please also see the following discussion on this forum

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11105.0

stefan_rosty

Whats wrong with the location ?
i think sura al baqara is clear that hajj albyt and qibla are linked to abraham .
and what about zam zam , its still running water ..... and safa and marwa.
god's plan was to identify those who will update their belief system towards truth see Duet 1818
and baca is a place of springs see psalms 846
(zoreyat abraham) the imam of jews , christians and muslims are to be prophets , as announced in sura 2 ,
hajj al bayt b baca , mohamed b macca
its clear that they are the same
stefan rosty

ayman

Peace Stefan Rosty,

Whats wrong with the location ?

It doesn't satisfy the requirments for the location we are told about in 2226.

i think sura al baqara is clear that hajj albyt and qibla are linked to abraham .
and what about zam zam , its still running water .....

Zamzam "holy" water is pumped from underground storage tanks. Here is where it actually comes from

http//www.sgs.org.sa/content/images/zam_pumping_system_of-_zamz.jpg

Temples dedicated to fertility goddesses such as the one for Allat in Mecca typically have "eternal springs" next to them. This is a normal part of pagan beliefs.

and safa and marwa.

Those words really have meanings. To answer your own question, you should look up their meanings in a dictionary and translate it.

god's plan was to identify those who will update their belief system towards truth see Duet 1818
and baca is a place of springs see psalms 846
(zoreyat abraham) the imam of jews , christians and muslims are to be prophets , as announced in sura 2 ,
hajj al bayt b baca , mohamed b macca
its clear that they are the same

Those words have meanings and you should look up their meaning in a Classical Arabic dictionary and translate them. I also don't think that the god makes typos or confuses "b" and "m".

Peace,

Ayman

stefan_rosty

&
thats a big problem ...
and are we looking for the real place now ?