Arranged Marriages are an INJUSTICE?

unknownuser

Salam everyone,
After failing two times after years of marriage I said to my mom that I promise the next one she is going to decide whom I am going to marry since she always knew from the start that we are going to fail... ) So the next one has to stand the test with my strict mother D

But you have learnt anything from these experiences?

I have no problem in people getting advise from others when choosing a suitable partner. But I want each individual to make that final decision when choosing a partner...

I think parents do know their kids quite well and so they are able to evaluate who is fits for them and who doesn't.

But not always especiallly when the children outgrow their parents...

In fact I believe that many marriages in the muslim society hold because women have such a bad status as a divorced women be in justice or in reputation.

You are correct. Just in Victorian times in Britain Divorce was a social stigma so many marriages held up even though those marriages were hell!

As about the movies, it's the same with the songs When you are unhappily in love you can find hundreds of good, dramatic, desperate love songs in which he doesn't get her and she doesn't get him because of arranged marriages or other reason that forbid more meetings with the loved one so what is left is only the sweet memory.... Almost everybody knows the unfullfilled love so everybody understands these songs and suffers with the artist.

I think human love is always prone to dissappointment. The heart yearns for the Ideal and we end up with the reality of human fallibility...

And yet it does not stop us yearning for LOVE... -)

Regards,

warda

Salam LT, all

But you have learnt anything from these experiences?

I hope so, I really hope so lol But I actually think that I did, I'm quite optimistic

Regards
warda

unknownuser

Salam LT, all

But you have learnt anything from these experiences?

I hope so, I really hope so lol But I actually think that I did, I'm quite optimistic
Regards
warda

I am glad to hear that -)

So the experience was beneficial after all in terms of growth as an individual despite all the pain it may have caused?

Regards,

unknownuser

Hi all,

Parents may know their own kids, but do they know the other one? Also, sometimes, parents try to project their own thoughts and fears onto their children, forgetting the child is a different individual from them.

I agree.

First, children might/can differ from their parents. So, the ideas would differ as well. What matters to u might not matter to them and vice versa.
Children are not a replica of their parents.

Second, parents often dont know about the selected groom/bride's personality. These are the criteria the well-wishing parents generally use
(same ethnic origin, same religion and same caste are must haves)
To select a bride
1.Beautiful, 2.good family background, 3.good health, 4.rich family(rich enough to pay the dowry they want. the richer the better!), 5.education(depends on whether they want the bride to be a house wife or an earner).

To Select a Groom

Good healthy chap. 2. Good, respectable family 3. Good Job with Good income 4.Educated 5. Clean records(criminal and social) 6.Non smoker, Non-alcoholic 7. affordable dowry

unknownuser

Hi Lotetree,

Perhaps time has come for the FRAMEWORK of the society to change....it only takes FEW brave individuals to stand up and say I want LOVE -)
And I will be behind all those individuals - cheering them on...

Why is it so WRONG to CHOOSE your own partner?
Why make it so WRONG?

Oh yeah, Let's see.
On one hand, there are ur parents(who do sacrifice a lot for u, all their life) who would be miserable(ranging from constant tears to being admitted to hospital with acute exacerabations of some illness) if u disobey/disappoint them and on the other hand is ur life.
Thats an easy decission, Isnt it?

warda

salam LT, PM, all

Salam LT, all

But you have learnt anything from these experiences?

I hope so, I really hope so lol But I actually think that I did, I'm quite optimistic
Regards
warda

I am glad to hear that -)

So the experience was beneficial after all in terms of growth as an individual despite all the pain it may have caused?

Regards,

Insha'Allah Rab al Alameen )

First, children might/can differ from their parents. So, the ideas would differ as well. What matters to u might not matter to them and vice versa.
Children are not a replica of their parents

Ideas might differ between parents and kids, still parents do know their kids quite well and even if it doesn't seem right for the moment, it still might be the right decision.

unknownuser

HI Warda,
How on earth, would the parents know the selected partner's personality?

unknownuser

Hello PM,

Hi Lotetree,

Perhaps time has come for the FRAMEWORK of the society to change....it only takes FEW brave individuals to stand up and say I want LOVE -)
And I will be behind all those individuals - cheering them on...

Oh yeah, Let's see.
On one hand, there are ur parents(who do sacrifice a lot for u,

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.

You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of to-morrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday....

-Khalil Gibran

I like to think that we owe our children everything but they owe us nothing...this attitude may be harder to appreciate perhaps...

who would be miserable(ranging from constant tears to being admitted to hospital with acute exacerabations of some illness) if u disobey/disappoint them and on the other hand is ur life.
Thats an easy decission, Isnt it?

I think if you go just outside of this guilt-burden of owning the very children you given birth to, then perhaps you will see that your childrens happiness is most important to you...

The decision can be easy when you are able to transform this guilt into expression of freedom for your kids...but again this attitude perhaps is harder to appreciate....

But may be you can't do it yourself for now...but for your kids make it so that they have the freedom to choose their partner?

Regards,

unknownuser

Hi Lotetree,
I absolutely agree. This has always been my view as well.

You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.

Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;

For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.

I share the same idea as khalil Gibran. He was a wise man.
(I have quoted those verses to my mom earlier, trying to explain ideas/ decissions should not be forced on one's children. lol. Not everyone sees it)

But then, when it comes to our parents, who do believe that they kind of own us, and when we are well aware that our decissions would hurt them and make them miserable, V r left with no choice but accept and smile at our pathetic position.
Ofcourse, I would never ever do the same to my kids. But then again, that depends too, coz I wont be the only one having to decide.

unknownuser

Peace

I believe there is a misconception about the arranged marriage, as well it is evident to me that this great practice is abused by humans

I believe the arranged marriage was mentioned in the Quran as a good practice to do, I have to find it though, it is not a direct message rather an indirect message but will be clear

Here is how the arranged marraige should be practised

A man will be looking for a wife so he inquires with some family members, freinds and possibly work mates
same with a woman who wants to marry, she will inquire with the same
the parties other than the man and the woman will try to find a good partner for the person wants to marry
if found, a meeting between them and all the parties invloved should attend and the two must start to know each other
if the two accepted it then piece of cake
the two may also choose yo have more time to know each other before they decide
When the time asked passes, it will be up to the two to go ahead with the marriage

that is what happened with me, and I only needed 9 days to know her and we married on day 10 (after she also accepted) now we are living 15 years togther and have two beautiful kids and Alhamdullelah can not be separated

the problem is humans omit points 4 to 7 and force the marriage to happen, and that is not Islamic in any way, it is a cultural thing

peace

unknownuser

Hi AhmedBahgat,

Ur points 1 to 3 are omitted as well. coz its the parents who decide when their child should marry irrespective of what the child wants. And they proceed with the search with, how they think the groom/bride should be.

Ur system is lot better. Good for u ! )

unknownuser

Hi AhmedBahgat,

Ur points 1 to 3 are omitted as well. coz its the parents who decide when their child should marry irrespective of what the child wants. And they proceed with the search with, how they think the groom/bride should be.

Ur system is lot better. Good for u !

lol , I may agree, some parents really destroy the life of their children when they force them to marry strangers that they never liked

a lot of parents also force their daughters to marry rich men

peace

TAJ

Peace

I believe the arranged marriage was mentioned in the Quran as a good practice to do, I have to find it though, it is not a direct message rather an indirect message but will be clear

Arranged marriage mentioned in Quran!?
Unless you mean the story of Ziad and his wife, when God decreed that Muhammad marries after her divorce from Ziad. That is a marriage arranged by Allah, true, so does that make it a rule here? I never saw it as a rule to follow!
Ahmed, where are you from? My guess is you are from Eygpt! Are you?

unknownuser

Peace

peace sister

I believe the arranged marriage was mentioned in the Quran as a good practice to do, I have to find it though, it is not a direct message rather an indirect message but will be clear

Arranged marriage mentioned in Quran!?

I remember I read something that indirectly give this understanding, I yet have to prove it though

Unless you mean the story of Ziad and his wife, when God decreed that Muhammad marries after her divorce from Ziad. That is a marriage arranged by Allah, true, so does that make it a rule here? I never saw it as a rule to follow!

no i did not mean Zaid story, also it was not a law or a rule but sort of recomendation regarding marriages, I have to find it (it is an indirect message though)

Ahmed, where are you from? My guess is you are from Eygpt! Are you?

full on egyptian sister but live in australia for the last 15 years

peace

TAJ

Peace Ahmed,

Then my guess was right. D

What time is it now in Australia? Evening, afternoon? It is 8 am in Riyadh.

I believe the arranged marriage was mentioned in the Quran as a good practice to do, I have to find it though, it is not a direct message rather an indirect message but will be clear

I guess you have to bring that Ayah then, and I doubt that you would find such a concept in the Quran. I never came across such a message, direct or indirect.
As a matter of fact, I think it goes straight against Islam to interfere with the choice of marriage partners. Marriage is something very very personal and the person has the full right to choose for him/herself. It is only out of obedience that the child should allow his/her parents to suggest opinions and learn from them but no more. If one is fully free to choose their religion as there is no "Ikraha Fee AlDeen", then "Min Bab Awla" there should be no "Ikraha Fee AlZawaj". Choosing a life partner need not be argued about. It is a very personal, private matter.

Here is how the arranged marraige should be practised

A man will be looking for a wife so he inquires with some family members, freinds and possibly work mates
same with a woman who wants to marry, she will inquire with the same
the parties other than the man and the woman will try to find a good partner for the person wants to marry
if found, a meeting between them and all the parties invloved should attend and the two must start to know each other
if the two accepted it then piece of cake
the two may also choose yo have more time to know each other before they decide
When the time asked passes, it will be up to the two to go ahead with the marriage

that is what happened with me, and I only needed 9 days to know her and we married on day 10 (after she also accepted) now we are living 15 years togther and have two beautiful kids and Alhamdullelah can not be separated

the problem is humans omit points 4 to 7 and force the marriage to happen, and that is not Islamic in any way, it is a cultural thing

In Saudi Arabia We don't have #2 and #3. No man will ask another man to marry their daughter or sister. The family of the woman will just have to wait for "3adalha" her destined husband.

#4 does not happen here, and if it does then the woman has only half an hour to speak to the guy (if she dares to) and then it would be settled. After speaking to the guy with of course her family present she would not dare to say no, I don't want him. Because the family pressure will be overwhelming.

that is what happened with me, and I only needed 9 days to know her and we married on day 10 (after she also accepted) now we are living 15 years togther and have two beautiful kids and Alhamdullelah can not be separated

You are either lucky or too kind. Eygptian men are the kindest of all Arabs. That is a well-known and agreed-upon fact D

In Eygpt, things are so much different than here. Eygptians are very open, so there is no comparison between there and here.
However, in Eygpt you have something very strange! "Katb Al Kitab" is not considered marriage. There has to be a wedding before the marriage can be consummated! And this goes against Al "Shar3" as far as I know! In Eygpt there are many heated arguments, started for some time now, between people of Shar3 and traditionalists regarding this point. What do you think?

unknownuser

Peace Ahmed,

Peace sister

Then my guess was right.

Absolutely, do you mind if I ask what was the hint? don't be shy in saying it, I will not be offended lol

What time is it now in Australia? Evening, afternoon? It is 8 am in Riyadh.

it is 515 PM wednesday, my mom lives in Riyadh for the last 30 years BTW, she is an English Teacher

I believe the arranged marriage was mentioned in the Quran as a good practice to do, I have to find it though, it is not a direct message rather an indirect message but will be clear

I guess you have to bring that Ayah then, and I doubt that you would find such a concept in the Quran. I never came across such a message, direct or indirect.

I will but I need a lot of time please, I think it was about encouraging marraiges to some people which can be considered arranged marraige, i have to show the verse though

As a matter of fact, I think it goes straight against Islam to interfere with the choice of marriage partners.

I don' treally know where you got this interference from, it is just within the circuit of known people like family and friends, NO interference at all, if the two wants to marry each other after the meeting is organised, where the interference will be?

well most of the prophet marraiges were arranged marraiges

Marriage is something very very personal and the person has the full right to choose for him/herself.

fine with me, but that does not mean that I don't ask people that I know if they have a wife for me or for my son, or a husband for my daughter then we see them and if everyone is happy, why not then?

don't you consider the ads on the papers by people looking to marrry are an invitation for an arranged marriage?

well, i reckon it is

unless the only way that you accept is the man and the woman know and meet each other by themselves?

It is only out of obedience that the child should allow his/her parents to suggest opinions and learn from them but no more.

well what you said above looks like ineterference to me

If one is fully free to choose their religion as there is no "Ikraha Fee AlDeen", then "Min Bab Awla" there should be no "Ikraha Fee AlZawaj". Choosing a life partner need not be argued about. It is a very personal, private matter.

yet I don't understand sister where you got this Ikrah from?, did I ever suggest that?

Here is how the arranged marraige should be practised

A man will be looking for a wife so he inquires with some family members, freinds and possibly work mates
same with a woman who wants to marry, she will inquire with the same
the parties other than the man and the woman will try to find a good partner for the person wants to marry
if found, a meeting between them and all the parties invloved should attend and the two must start to know each other
if the two accepted it then piece of cake
the two may also choose yo have more time to know each other before they decide
When the time asked passes, it will be up to the two to go ahead with the marriage

that is what happened with me, and I only needed 9 days to know her and we married on day 10 (after she also accepted) now we are living 15 years togther and have two beautiful kids and Alhamdullelah can not be separated

the problem is humans omit points 4 to 7 and force the marriage to happen, and that is not Islamic in any way, it is a cultural thing

In Saudi Arabia We don't have #2 and #3. No man will ask another man to marry their daughter or sister. The family of the woman will just have to wait for "3adalha" her destined husband.

well it is a cultural thing, but I reckon the prophet went to Abu Bakr and asked him to marry Ayisha, what is wrong with it if everyone is happy? "No Ikrah"

#4 does not happen here, and if it does then the woman has only half an hour to speak to the guy (if she dares to) and then it would be settled. After speaking to the guy with of course her family present she would not dare to say no, I don't want him. Because the family pressure will be overwhelming.

you see it is a cultural thing, like for example women in your country are not allowed to drive, pretty stupid if you ask me?

but let me ask you sister, can any saudi talk about the king freely in the street?

that is what happened with me, and I only needed 9 days to know her and we married on day 10 (after she also accepted) now we are living 15 years togther and have two beautiful kids and Alhamdullelah can not be separated

You are either lucky or too kind. Eygptian men are the kindest of all Arabs. That is a well-known and agreed-upon fact

Thank you sister, I appreciate your nice words, but if you really see my wife, you will perfectly undersatnd the amount of luck that I had, she was a Haja before I married her and she was raised in australia, she is also egyptian and a very beautiful lady, what else an egyptian man can ask for? lol

In Eygpt, things are so much different than here. Eygptians are very open, so there is no comparison between there and here.

of course sister, I know your country very well, I have been there many times i also did omra once, I have many family members there including my mother, and to be honest I hate both countries "Egypt and SA" don't get me wrong please, I can elaborate if you wish lol

However, in Eygpt you have something very strange! "Katb Al Kitab" is not considered marriage. There has to be a wedding before the marriage can be consummated! And this goes against Al "Shar3" as far as I know! In Eygpt there are many heated arguments, started for some time now, between people of Shar3 and traditionalists regarding this point. What do you think?

of course sister another stupid and flawed cultural thing, for me when my Kitab was written, I committed the thing betwen me and my wife and we didn't wait for the dukhla lol

peace sister

Jaxal

SaLaM Taj

What would you say is both the man and the woman wanted their parents to look for a suitable husband/wife . Some people are just shy to do the work themselves.

TAJ

Salam Ahmed,

The hint?
Your name my dear brother! It is a typical Eygptian name ) Don't you think?

I will but I need a lot of time please, I think it was about encouraging marraiges to some people which can be considered arranged marraige, i have to show the verse though

Do you mean
"Wa anki7o al ayama minkum wa ssale7een in yakoono foqaraa'a yughnihumu Allah...." Correct me if I'm wrong!

As a matter of fact, I think it goes straight against Islam to interfere with the choice of marriage partners.

I meant the decision of choice. Of course, family and friends will always volunteer names but it should stop at that. The final decision should be the woman or the man, not the family. That is what I meant.

well most of the prophet marraiges were arranged marraiges

Maybe you are right!

fine with me, but that does not mean that I don't ask people that I know if they have a wife for me or for my son, or a husband for my daughter then we see them and if everyone is happy, why not then?

Naturally! Nothing is wrong with that. But how can you ask a husband for your daughter? How do you say it? I am curious! Do you have a certain tactics, implications...?? )

It is only out of obedience that the child should allow his/her parents to suggest opinions and learn from them but no more.

well what you said above looks like ineterference to me

But that interference is welcomed from the girl, or maybe even not welcomed. That is why parents should clear themselves from that decision even if the child asked for it. They should only give as much advice and information, and leave the rest to "Ssa7ib/Ssa7ibat Al Shaa'an"

Differences are a cultural thing, absolutely, but sometimes these things can be really bad.

So your wife was a Haja before getting married. Well let me guess
She and her family were in Australia then visited SA to make Hajj then the two families met and the marriage happened! How far am I? )

I can perfectly understand why you hate SA, but Eygpt!

TAJ wrote
However, in Eygpt you have something very strange! "Katb Al Kitab" is not considered marriage. There has to be a wedding before the marriage can be consummated! And this goes against Al "Shar3" as far as I know! In Eygpt there are many heated arguments, started for some time now, between people of Shar3 and traditionalists regarding this point. What do you think?

of course sister another stupid and flawed cultural thing, for me when my Kitab was written, I committed the thing betwen me and my wife and we didn't wait for the dukhla

OoooooooooooooKkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!

TAJ

SaLaM Taj

What would you say is both the man and the woman wanted their parents to look for a suitable husband/wife . Some people are just shy to do the work themselves.

Why not? If the son asks for help. The problem if they suggest someone so badly and then you didn't like the girl. Some tension is bound to happen between you and your family, don't you think?

Jaxal

SaLaM Taj

You are assuming that the father/mother will then force the girl/boy they chose on their son/daughter. This is not what i meant. What i mean is, a guy/girl asks his/her parents to find a suitable husband/wife for him/her to which they agree. Is there something wrong with that?