My divorce - need your help
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My dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam
Salam Aleikum,Since marriage with my husband was a very hard time for me and my kids I moved out with my kids two years ago and since then I live seperated from my him. I asked him again and again to give me divorce/talaaqa which he mostly refuses or remitting it again and again. As I don't see any future for us I definitly want to be divorced and went to the Sheick of a mosque which gave me the feeling that he really is willing to help me. He said that it is haram to "not wanting the woman and not let her go". I was told that I could bring 10 witnesses who swear that we are not living together since two years and then we can get divorced. Now I heard that this doesn't work because it is me who left him and took a new flat.
The fact that I left him seems to make problems now as I heard from others, too.The Shaikh spoke to my husband and in the next coming days there shall be a meeting where all of us will talk about the subject. I'm afraid that my husband will tell him that he's such a poor nice hardworking man who just wants to be with his woman and kids and who did nothing wrong, and the Shaikh will believe him and he won't set me free.
I searched the Koran and found this (taken from another fm thread)
?For those who wish to end the marriage with their wives, they must wait for four months. But if they retract, then God is Forgiving, Most Merciful.? (2226)
?And if they insist on the divorce, then God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.? (2227)
?And the divorced women shall hold themselves for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile. And for what obligations the women are owed, so similarly must they fulfil their obligations. But the men will have a greater responsibility over them in this. And God is Noble, Wise.? (222
?If the divorce is done a second time, then, either they remain together equitably, or they separate with kindness. And it is not lawful for you to take back anything you have given the women unless you fear that they will not uphold God?s limits. So if you fear that they will not uphold God?s limits, then there is no sin upon them for what is given back. These are God?s limits so do not transgress them. And whoever shall transgress God?s limits, then these are the wicked.? (2229)
?So if he again divorces her, then she will not be lawful for him until she has married another husband. If the other husband divorces her, then there is no sin that they come back together if they think they will uphold God?s limits. These are God?s limits, He clarifies them for a people that know.? (2230)
?And if you have divorced the women, and they have reached their required interim period, then you should either remarry them equitably, or part-ways equitably. And do not remarry them so you can harm them out of animosity; whoever does so is doing wickedness to his soul; and do not take God?s revelations lightly. And remember God?s blessings towards you, and what was sent down to you of the Scripture and the wisdom, He warns you with it. And be aware of God and know that God is Knowledgeable in all things.? (2231)
?And if you divorce the women, and they have reached their required interim period, then do not prevent them from remarrying their husbands if they amicably agree amongst themselves out of what is best. This is to remind any of you who believe in God and the Last Day, this is better for you and purer; and God knows while you do not know.? (2232)
?O you who believe, if you marry the believing women, then divorced them before having intercourse with them, then there is no interim required of them. You shall compensate them, and let them go in an amicable manner.? (3349)
?O you prophet, if any of you have divorced the women, then they should be divorced while ensuring that their required interim is fulfilled, and keep count of the interim. You shall reverence God your Lord, and do not evict the women from their homes, nor should they leave, unless they have committed a proven adultery. And these are God's limits. And anyone who transgresses God's limits has wronged his soul. You never know; perhaps God will make something come out of this.? (651)
?Then, once the interim is fulfilled, you may either remarry them equitably, or part-ways with them equitably; and you shall have this witnessed by two who are just from among you, and give the testimony for God. This is to enlighten those who believe in God and the Last Day. And whosoever reverences God, He will create a solution for him.? (652)
?And He will provide for him whence he never expected. Anyone who puts his trust in God, then He suffices him. God's commands will be done. God has decreed for everything its fate.? (653)
?As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. And as for those who?s menstruation has ceased, and those who are already pregnant, their interim is until they give birth. And anyone who reverences God, He makes his matters easy for him.? (654)
?This is God's command that He sends down to you. And anyone who is aware of God, He remits his sins, and will improve his reward.? (655)
?You shall leave them to reside in the home you were in when you were together, and do not coerce them to make them leave. And if they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. Then, if they nurse the infant, you shall pay them their due for such. And you shall maintain the amicable relations between you. If you disagree, then another woman may nurse the child.? (656)
Here is a summary of the rules for divorce as obtained when arranging all similar verses
- A waiting period of four months is imposed for the couple to reflect.
- Cancellation of the divorce proceedings may take place at any time during the 4-month waiting period.
- If the couple go-through with the divorce, then an interim is given to the wife of 3 menstruation periods during which she cannot marry another man (the interim is 3 months for those who no longer menopause, and until delivery for those who are pregnant). If the divorce has taken place before any sexual intercourse ever occurred, then the wife is not required any interim period.
- The wife may remain in her ex-husband?s home during the interim period (in the case of pregnancy, the ex-husband is also required to spend on her during the pregnancy).
- The couple may remarry at any time after the divorce if they wish so.
- If this is the 3rd consecutive divorce for the couple, then they may not remarry unless she has been married to another man and then they divorced each other.
what frightens me is things like 2228 which usually is understood as the men are superiour to the women and it is up to them to speak the final word.
Does anyone of you has good advice for me what I can tell both, husband and Shaick when I feel that they turn against me? Referring to the Quran, what may I say in order to become a free women so I can take my life into my own hands again? Anyone of you had the same/similar situation and can tell me about it?
It would be really a mess, if it will fail and I had to stay his wife against my will.
Thank you all
Warda -
Hi Sis Warda
I am very sorry to know you have been unfotunate and have to go through all this!
May God give u the strength and courage!what frightens me is things like 2228 which usually is understood as the men are superiour to the women and it is up to them to speak the final word.My dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam
?And the divorced women shall hold themselves for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile. And for what obligations the women are owed, so similarly must they fulfil their obligations. But the men will have a greater responsibility over them in this. And God is Noble, Wise.? (222The verse clearly states that they can reunite if both wish to reconcile.
As in ur case, u r not interested in continuing the relationship.
There's no compulsion to reunite.
Though Allah doesnt like divorce, but if its the only way out, it is acceptable.And sis, which country do u belong to? coz the legalities would depend on the ruling of the country u belong to.
Is it an arab country? Does shaikh have to be involved in a divorce proceeding? Doesnt divorce proceedings go through a court of law with the help of lawyers? -
Hi Warda,
I am really sorry that you have to go through such uncertainty. It must be very frighting, but don't despair. There must be help somewhere. If you live in the western world then there should be no problem I guess. There, you are protected by the law and lawyers can do a great job there. You will get a divorce I am sure but how about your children? Will he not take them from you? Will he not use them to pressure you? I think you better consult with a lawyer before you meet the Sheik. The men and even possibly the women there at the mosque will most likely collaborate against you and will most probably try to talk you back to your husband. Arm yourself with a good lawyer and better let the lawyer meet them and speak for you.
My heart goes with you, Warda. Be strong and don't lose hope.Note
I suggest you put your post on the "General Discussion" section, to get as much opinions and support as possible. -
Salam Taj and Peacefulmuslim
Thanks for your replies.
I live in Europe but we are married in Islamic way only and I don't know how a lawyer could help me in islamic law.
I think or at least hope that he wont take the children from but you actually never know... cry
I suggest you put your post on the "General Discussion" section, to get as much opinions and support as possible.
fine, but how? Think a mod could do that only, right?
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peace Warda,
I assume since you are married in an "Islamic" way you are not legally classed as 'married' by your country. That may work in your favour if your discussions do not work out.
It is good that you have researched the signs of al-quraan for your case. This is good, know them inside out and related signs.
Contact women's groups in your country, speicifcally "Muslim" women's groups. They should be able to support you.
Contact more liberal "Sheikhs" if this one doesn't work out.
Get your family & friends involved, to provide additional support and influence in the decision.
2228 is about women who conceal they are pregnant, when they divorce. This is not applicable to you.
Wakas
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Peace Warda, All
I would also add to what Wakas has written
Insist, insist and keep insisting on divorce if the shiek tries to change your mind. Yes, it is his duty to reconcile you with your husband but if he sees that you are really insisting and that there is no chance that you would change your mind then he will be on your side. However, if he won't support your position still, then go to another shiek and another until you find someone who would be fair. -
How does one marry in an 'islamic way'? I mean ,Is the marriage not recognised and registered under the law(of the country)?
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Salam all of you
Thanks Zenje for moving the thread wink .
Peace Wakas,
I assume since you are married in an "Islamic" way you are not legally classed as 'married' by your country. That may work in your favour if your discussions do not work out.
Yes, you are right, I'm not legally married in my country, but how may that work in my favour? Please elaborate.
It is good that you have researched the signs of al-quraan for your case. This is good, know them inside out and related signs.
Sorry, maybe I got too nervous to understand english, but what do you mean by that?
What I am afraid of is that they might decide the shari'a way and I've been told now terrible things now just like because I left him, I have no right to bring the (10) witnesses who can swear that we live seperatly and what would help me a lot. Or that if my husbands declares in front of the Sheikh that he wishes to live with me again, there is nothing I can do. Which means I am absolutely reliant upon the will of my husband.
Contact women's groups in your country, speicifcally "Muslim" women's groups. They should be able to support you.
Contact more liberal "Sheikhs" if this one doesn't work out.
Yes, good ideas. I will try that if it doesn't turn out positivly for me. As for the Sheikh I heard that he is a "modern" one, which was the impression I had of him, too, but,... well...
Salam sis Taj
Insist, insist and keep insisting on divorce if the shiek tries to change your mind. Yes, it is his duty to reconcile you with your husband but if he sees that you are really insisting and that there is no chance that you would change your mind then he will be on your side. However, if he won't support your position still, then go to another shiek and another until you find someone who would be fair.
What if my husband rejects?
I would like to argue in the light of the Quran, that this is unfair if they try to keep me married against my will, something that speaks in my favour.
I'm so afraid that he just won't let me go and I'm stuck in this situation.Salam PM,
How does one marry in an 'islamic way'? I mean ,Is the marriage not recognised and registered under the law(of the country)?
What I mean is that we are married islamic in the mosque etc. I'm not sure if it is registered under the law here but I don't think so.
Also, does somebody know if I have to wait the three months period although we are living seperatly since two years? I was told (again, I was told .... ? ) that I would have to wait those three months also, until I am divorced and free finally.
Thanks for you help
Salam
Warda -
Yes, you are right, I'm not legally married in my country, but how may that work in my favour? Please elaborate.
If you are not legally registered as married in a European or other country then you are not married in the civil sense.
If you have lived separate for two years then you are divorced by any account and owe nobody anything.
I wouldn't even pursue the matter further than that.
If you want to make a statement about it - then I would go to your civil registry and change your surname to your maiden name immediately. You are legally allowed to do this and it shows at least your serious intention to be absolutely out of the relationship you once had.
Peace.
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salaam warda
It would be really a mess, if it will fail and I had to stay his wife against my will.
If you live in the Uk you can obtain divorce from him.
The law here is that if you married abroad and you were UK resident at the time then your marriage would only be recognised if you came back and registered your marriage.
If on other hand you married in another country and then came to live in the UK then your marriage would be legally recognised and then you would have to go through a legal divorce. I am not sure of other Euorpean countries laws but I guess they would be very similar.
Please go and see a solicitor specialising in Family Law she/he will be able to provide you with precise details and you may also be eligible for various financial assistances from your husband.
regards -
peace Warda,
To know something inside out, is to know its exterior & interior, to know it fully, to know it well, to know it thoroughly etc.
I just meant that not being legally married in your country means your "husband" is limited in terms of action against you, i.e. there is nothing legally binding upon you. I would revert to your maiden name as brother Oben suggested though.
Also, it doesn't matter what tradition/culture they refer to, the decision to divorce is not the sole decision of the husband. Be adamant that al-quraan is the criterion/furqan.
Wakas
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Salam truth,
If you have lived separate for two years then you are divorced by any account and owe nobody anything.
I wouldn't even pursue the matter further than that.
How do you know that? Where in the Quran is written that after two years of seperation you are divorced by any account? What makes you so sure about it?
If you want to make a statement about it - then I would go to your civil registry and change your surname to your maiden name immediately. You are legally allowed to do this and it shows at least your serious intention to be absolutely out of the relationship you once had.
In islamic marriages you don't take the name of your husband this is christian tradition. So I never changed my name.
Salam stillearning,
If on other hand you married in another country and then came to live in the UK then your marriage would be legally recognised and then you would have to go through a legal divorce. I am not sure of other Euorpean countries laws but I guess they would be very similar.
Please go and see a solicitor specialising in Family Law she/he will be able to provide you with precise details and you may also be eligible for various financial assistances from your husband.See, my husband is muslim and I am muslima. We married ONLY in the mosque, no civil marriage. So the civil law cannot help me in any sense. Only a Sheick can disengage this marriage. My husband won't accept any other solution.
Salam Wakas,
I just meant that not being legally married in your country means your "husband" is limited in terms of action against you, i.e. there is nothing legally binding upon you.
Well, yes and no. He doesn't have the right to take the kids but on the other hand I cannot marry again as long as I am married with him. As I said earlier, the civil law doesn't help me here. This marriage has been united in the name of God and it has to be cancelled in the name of God.
Be adamant that al-quraan is the criterion/furqan.
This is my plan how to win the case and get my freedom and own will back wink and this is why I opend this thread so if anyone can refer to a Sura/Aya which could help me in this situation would be appreciated.
I THANK YOU ALL!
Salam Aleikum
warda -
Peace Warda,
let me a small comment, sorry, I know it is not related to the problem but as you mentioned it...In islamic marriages you don't take the name of your husband this is christian tradition. So I never changed my name.
not Christian tradition, Spain is traditionally a Christian country and here no woman loses her surname here after marriage and no man either.
It is perhaps an Anglo-Saxon custom since it is practiced in USA and UK.
I wish you the best end for your current situation. I understand you got married in the islamic way and you need an islamic divorce that will be valid in front of the muslim community. All the best, my sincere support, I'll seek information from the FEERI here (Spanish Federation of Islamic Religious Entities)
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Hi Warda,
How do you know that? Where in the Quran is written that after two years of seperation you are divorced by any account? What makes you so sure about it?
See, my husband is muslim and I am muslima. We married ONLY in the mosque, no civil marriage. So the civil law cannot help me in any sense. Only a Sheick can disengage this marriage. My husband won't accept any other solution.
Well, yes and no. He doesn't have the right to take the kids but on the other hand I cannot marry again as long as I am married with him. As I said earlier, the civil law doesn't help me here. This marriage has been united in the name of God and it has to be cancelled in the name of God.
Well, If its Only the shaikh who can dissolve ur marriage, then I suppose, u should talk & try convincing him that u do not wish to stay married to ur husband. Nobody can force u to. Not even the shaikh. Its only upto the couple to decide. If ur husband is not in favour of the divorce, then I suppose u will have to do some homework. Try bringing up good reasons why u do not wish to stay married with ur husband. Try pointing out the support or lack of it u have recieved the last 2 yrs etc
And if u feel, the shaikh wont give u the divorce, then talk to womens rights activist(preferably muslim ones) at ur place and explain ur condition to them and seek their help.
2227 But if their intention is firm for divorce, Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
2241 For divorced women Maintenance (should be provided) on a reasonable (scale). This is a duty on the righteous.Hope and pray u succeed!
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Salam Warda,
From
http//www.quranbrowser.com/004130
Pickthall But if they separate, Allah will compensate each out of His abundance. Allah is ever All-Embracing, All-Knowing.
Yusuf Ali But if they disagree (and must part), God will provide abundance for all from His all-reaching bounty for God is He that careth for all and is Wise.
Shakir And if they separate, Allah will render them both free from want out of His ampleness, and Allah is Ample-giving, Wise.
Sher Ali And if they separate, ALLAH will make both independent out of HIS abundance, and ALLAH is Bountiful, Wise.
Khalifa If the couple must decide to part, GOD will provide for each of them from His bounties. GOD is Bounteous, Most Wise.
Arberry But if they separate, God will enrich each of them of His plenty; God is All-embracing, All-wise.
Palmer but if they separate, God can make both independent out of His abundance; for God is abundant, wise.
Rodwell But if they separate, God can compensate both out of His abundance; for God is Vast, Wise;
Sale but if they separate, God will satisfy both of his abundance; for God is extensive wise,
Transliterated Arabic Wa-in yatafarraqa yughni Allahu kullan min saAAatihi wakana Allahu wasiAAan hakeeman
Warda, also check the freeminds translation.
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See, my husband is muslim and I am muslima. We married ONLY in the mosque, no civil marriage. So the civil law cannot help me in any sense. Only a Sheick can disengage this marriage. My husband won't accept any other solution.
Peace warda,
Your statement here is a little incorrect.
In Australia and some other countries there is a thing called a common law marriage - here it is called a "de-facto" relationship where a couple is considered equivalent to being "married" if they have lived together in a serious relationship for over 6 months. They have all the rights of marriage regardless of their actual marital status.
The best advice would be to forget trying to do this through a 'sheikh' who has no authority ultimately - and consult like the advice above - see a family law solicitor/lawyer.
You seem too entangled in the 'sunni' situation. If you believe the law cannot help you - then why do you give authority to a "sheikh" or to your ex-husband who seems to be in denial of the reality of the situation? Who do you fear - the sheikh and the opinions of people - or the God?
The "sheikh" has absolutely zero authority.
Regards.
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Peace,
Who do you fear - the sheikh and the opinions of people - or the God?
but Truth, she will have to live in a society, in a community that accepts as valid her divorce, if not , how could she marry again if she wishes?
Warda, please, check this link that it is about a new divorce law in UAE, maybe it helps or at least you can gather more information
http//www.uaeinteract.com/news/default.asp?cntDisplay=10&ID=33#17020 -
Peace be upon you Warda
Out of all the opinions expressed I feel that 'truth's' opinions are the ones that correlate most with my beliefs. Remember the verse you yourself quoted
And if they insist on the divorce, then God is Hearer, Knowledgeable. 2227.
With regards to marriage/divorce, I believe
- Follow God's law
- Follow the law of the land if it does not conflict with your religion.
Don't let the bearded baffoons fool around with your life. You are divorced (in the eyes of God) period. If you are legally married (I am sure you can find out if you are), get a (legal) divorce.
I just hope you don't live in a 'closed community' where you will be slandered.
Roshan
