Punishment for the unchaste:lashes,confinement or 4giveness?

agentxxx

peace SM,
you wrote

I mean if man or a woman have sex before they are married then this punishment isn't for them!?

fine, but which of the three punishments should be applied? and the first two verses only tell a husband how he should deal when his woman is guilty of lewdness, so how should a woman react when his husband is guilty of lewdness? should she admonish him first, then refuse to share her bed with him. beat him lol or confine him to the house untill he dies?
take care.

SwedenMajidah

Salaam,

Yeah I know what you are up to

Well I guess he must have the same treatment.

I guess it must be some manmade errors in this but wait and see what the experts have to say lol

Peace

Sis Majidah

Jaxal

SaLaM

I believe the man should suffer the same punishment as the woman.

agentxxx

peace Sm,
you wrote

Salaam,
Yeah I know what you are up to lol
Well I guess he must have the same treatment.

you guessed it right sis wink

I guess it must be some manmade errors in this but wait and see what the experts have to saylol

yes let see what their point of view is?
take care.

Fahad1

salam,
Sura-4 (Al-Nisa)
15?If any of your women are guilty of lewdness take the evidence of four (reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify confine them to houses until death do claim them or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

34?-As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance) for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).

Sura-24 (Al-Nur)
2?The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication flog each of them with a hundred stripes let not compassion move you in their case in a matter prescribed by Allah if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

Sura-4 (Al-Nisa)
16?If two men among you are guilty of lewdness punish them both. If they repent and amend leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning Most Merciful.

take care.

salam.
415 is about lewdness(faahisha) among women (lesbianism)
434 about disobedience (nushoz hunna) on women's part
242 about adultery (zina)

unknownuser

Peace Agentxxx

please note that verse 416 is talking about a man and a woman, NOT and I stress NOT 2 men

the punishment of adultry for both man and woman is 100 lashes IN PUBLIC according to 242

My understanding that If the husband still loves his wife then he can confine her in the house until she dies or Allah ordain for her some (other) way. however this is based on the wife wants to stay with the husband and the husband is looking to build the trust again, very hard indeed

for verse 435, I believe it does not cover adultry but covers all ill conduct actions by her except adultry, because Allah defined it as "Zena" but in here he described her action as "NOSHOZAHUNA" which does not mean adultry at all, rather a rebelling type of action

don't forget that the warning for adultry was given to both men and women in numerous locations and the divine punishment is promised for both

why Allah only mentioned the above about women?, well, I say it is good for them as Allah has put very tight restrictions on what the husbands should do to the wife in case the wife is the adultrer, so men don't abuse their positions as husbands and go mad and kill her thinking iot is his right to do so in a round of rage and anger

I don't think the woman will think of killing her husband if he is the cheater, simply she will leave him and under Islam laws she is allowed to seek divorce

trying to apply the law of confining the cheating men in the houses by their wives will sound funny, and sure is impractical and just can't happen logically speaking

as well under the laws of Allah, it seems He allowed the husband to hit his wife lightly in case she commits any other ill conduct, like stealing or talking ill about other people in their absence for example, not sure that if the woman should hit her husband in the same circumstances will be of any practicality rather an invitaion for a sinful and confused husband to hit back and possibly kill her

so it is all about protecting the women my friend

Peace be with you

agentxxx

peace Ahmed,
i agree with most of your explanation my friend and i am thankful to you
you wrote

please note that verse 416 is talking about a man and a woman, NOT and I stress NOT 2 men

most of the translations i have talk about two men??

you wrote in the end

so it is all about protecting the women my friend

here i will disagree by saying its all about dominating the women wink

take care.

agentxxx

peace saladin,
thank you for your explanations
you wrote

415 is about lewdness(faahisha) among women (lesbianism)

let see what brother Ahmed has to say about you defination )
take care.

unknownuser

peace Ahmed,
i agree with most of your explanation my friend and i am thankful to you )

Cool bro

no worries

you wrote

please note that verse 416 is talking about a man and a woman, NOT and I stress NOT 2 men

most of the translations i have talk about two men??

They are wrong then mate, because the clear arabic context sugests it is a man and a woman

you wrote in the end

so it is all about protecting the women my friend

here i will disagree by saying its all about dominating the women wink

take care.

The way it is practiced by the faulty men is giving that wrong impression of dominating the women

you see most men consipre directly or indirectly to dominate the women and this has nothing to do with Islam or any other religion for that matter, it is all man made and manipulations

peace

Elke

Peace all,

ahmed wrote
as well under the laws of Allah, it seems He allowed the husband to hit his wife lightly in case she commits any other ill conduct
and
so it is all about protecting the women

I don't believe hitting even slightly is a solution to a couples problem. Protecting the women would have been a verse that forbids wife beating...

Even children, above a certain age where light slaps can put limits - as long as they are too young to understand the parents logic, have to be talked to instead of slapped. I'm a woman, i wouldn't accept a man to hit me. I would hit back by the way wink and the relationship wouldn't get any better because the man did not respect me as his equal. Now sure there are some sick relations out there where the woman seems to long for punishment, but that's just what they are to me - sick relations, sick people. A sain man would rather get out of a relationship than to be tempted to hit his partner. Yes ok i am a feminist - in the sense of equality, not of being above men. As you said, ahmed, it seems the gods law allowed wife beating... Did you read the article aboutt daraba and its multiple meanings?

Peace, lk

agentxxx

peace elke,
you wrote

I don't believe hitting even slightly is a solution to a couples problem. Protecting the women would have been a verse that forbids wife beating...

absolutely right wink

I'm a woman, i wouldn't accept a man to hit me. I would hit back by the way

I am a man and I would not accept my father hitting my mother, neither would I accept my brother in law hitting my sister, nor my son in law hitting my daughter.I would also not accept my brother hitting my sister in law or my son hitting my daughter in law.
take care.

unknownuser

Peace all,

ahmed wrote
as well under the laws of Allah, it seems He allowed the husband to hit his wife lightly in case she commits any other ill conduct
and
so it is all about protecting the women

I don't believe hitting even slightly is a solution to a couples problem. Protecting the women would have been a verse that forbids wife beating...

Even children, above a certain age where light slaps can put limits - as long as they are too young to understand the parents logic, have to be talked to instead of slapped. I'm a woman, i wouldn't accept a man to hit me. I would hit back by the way wink and the relationship wouldn't get any better because the man did not respect me as his equal. Now sure there are some sick relations out there where the woman seems to long for punishment, but that's just what they are to me - sick relations, sick people. A sain man would rather get out of a relationship than to be tempted to hit his partner. Yes ok i am a feminist - in the sense of equality, not of being above men. As you said, ahmed, it seems the gods law allowed wife beating... Did you read the article aboutt daraba and its multiple meanings?

Peace, lk

Hello Elka

if you read the verse you will see that hitting her was the third option the husband was entitked to use for a wife who insist on ill conducts,

now for me I see it as lawfull for the husband who still love his ill conducted wife and wants to keep her as a wife "if she desires so" but she insist on the ill conduct, like stealing for example

howeverI wave that right for me and if my wife commit ill conduct and insist on it after I exhaust the first two options mentioned in the verse, then my third option will be the highway for her and will be replaced with a better and respectful woman

peace

unknownuser

peace elke,
you wrote

I don't believe hitting even slightly is a solution to a couples problem. Protecting the women would have been a verse that forbids wife beating...

absolutely right wink

I'm a woman, i wouldn't accept a man to hit me. I would hit back by the way

I am a man and I would not accept my father hitting my mother, neither would I accept my brother in law hitting my sister, nor my son in law hitting my daughter.I would also not accept my brother hitting my sister in law or my son hitting my daughter in law.
take care.

Hello bro

I also donlt expect that your mother will be invloved in ill conduct as well ignores your father advice to her

you guys drive me crazy, the cause for the hitting was mentioned in the verse, A WIFE WITH ILL CONDUCT

thanks

unknownuser

Ilka

please pass me a link to this article I would like to read it

thanks

Elke

peace ahmed

howeverI wave that right for me and if my wife commit ill conduct and insist on it after I exhaust the first two options mentioned in the verse, then my third option will be the highway for her and will be replaced with a better and respectful woman

sage decision!

btw,my name is elke, even though most people pronounce elka (since i've lived in egypt actually they did everything to me elk, elkee, ilka ellaka,... - and that's where you come from isn't it ?) wink

and here is the link
http//www.free-minds.org/women/beating.htm

peace lk

agentxxx

peace Ahmed,
you wrote

Hello bro

I also donlt expect that your mother will be invloved in ill conduct as well ignores your father advice to her
you guys drive me crazy, the cause for the hitting was mentioned in the verse, A WIFE WITH ILL CONDUCT

cooooooool it bro lol
my father is her husband and not her master, under no circumstances he should hit her. there are better way to resolve such matters.
regards.

unknownuser

Hi guys,
I agree with those who say 'beating up one's wife is wrong, no matter what'.
Men and woman are human beings in their own right. Just becoz, Men are physically powerful over women, they have no right to physically abuse women on any account. Even if the woman in question, is at fault. There are loads of ways to solve problems. Physical violence is not the answer.

If man is supposed to use 'physical violence' as a last resort to correct his wife, who has sinned, what about men who sin(and in most of the cases, its men who sin)? Are women allowed to beat them too?

Imajine, if woman was as or more physically powerful than man, would this question even arise? A woman would propably knock down a man who tries to hit her or even suggests it. If women were stronger, would man even dare to hit her?. So, merely becoz men are more physically strong, they should not abuse it over woman.

Peace!

Elena

Peace Ahmed,

now for me I see it as lawfull for the husband who still love his ill conducted wife and wants to keep her as a wife

yeah, hitting her, very loving act... shock

agentxxx

peace peacefulmuslim,
you wrote

what about men who sin(and in most of the cases, its men who sin)? Are women allowed to beat them too?

I would say yes, same punishment for men too
confine them to houses until death do claim them, Refuse to share their beds, Beat them, wink and you are absolutely right in most of the cases its men who sin.

Imajine, if woman was as or more physically powerful than man, would this question even arise? A woman would propably knock down a man who tries to hit her or even suggests it. If women were stronger, would man even dare to hit her?. So, merely becoz men are more physically strong, they should not abuse it over woman.

you have said it all D
peace

NoProgressive

AgentXXX,

salam,
Sura-4 (Al-Nisa)
15?If any of your women are guilty of lewdness take the evidence of four (reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify confine them to houses until death do claim them or
Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

You are taking one aspect of that verse. You are forggeitng about the "or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.".... that obviously is hte forgiveness part (416) which applies to both men and women.

salaam