To Andya Primanda and all believers in evolution
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Salam Jaxal,
SaLaM idmkhizar
So your theory is that atoms came together ( according to the divine plane ) forming the first organism.
Evolution says the same thing.
Khi- SO? I NEVER DENIED EVOLUTION IN GENERAL. I DENY MACRO EVOLUTION IN PARTICULAR THE APE-MEN EVOLUTION, AS IVE BEEN REPEATING FOR A HUNDRED TIMES NOW. GOD Bless!
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Salam phoenix
Peace Khizar,
I think that "macro" evolution makes sense. I think Allah wanted it to be that way. We all know that God doesnt have to try and try again until He succeeds, but there must be reasons why. It was all part of the same process from the birth of the first cell to the first human.
Khi- This process, if it were true, would have been absurd and is exactly the reason why ape-men evos deny the existence of GOD. One has to be blind not to see the consequences of such a concept. GOD doesnt want to discredit Himself. GOD Bless!
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Here are some interesting notes on your evidence-providing doctor
http//www.talkorigins.org/faqs/credentials.html
Hovind claims to possess a masters degree and a doctorate in education from Patriot University in Colorado. According to Hovind, his 250-page dissertation was on the topic of the dangers of teaching evolution in the public schools. Formerly affiliated with Hilltop Baptist Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, Patriot University is accredited only by the American Accrediting Association of Theological Institutions, an accreditation mill that provides accreditation for a $100 charge. Patriot University has moved to Alamosa, Colorado and continues to offer correspondence courses for $15 to $32 per credit. The school's catalog contains course descriptions but no listing of the school's faculty or their credentials. Name It and Frame It lists Patriot University as a degree mill .Khi- Ill ignore this because such attacks always happen when one wants to discredit a person going against "majority" opinion.
http//www.chick.com/information/authors/hovind.asp
Some quotes from your "doctor"
-I can say with all certainty that the Bible is the infallible, inspired, inerrant Word of the living GodKhi- I never said that Dr. Hovind is right on each and everything. That is his belief for whatever reasons though absurd it maybe.
-The universe was created in 6 literal 24 hour days about 6,000 years ago
Khi- Possible but most unprobable id say though im not convinced of the radio matrix dating systems which have shown many inconsitencies. I sometimes even doubt whther the dates were not deliberately chosen to support the ape-men evo so id stay neutral on the dates. It's irrelevant to me. However both Dr. Kent and the ape-men evos have an agenda behind their dates, one indicating the Bible being true and the other indicating that there was enough TIME for men to have evolved by RANDOM mutations and natural selection(which btw is also random acc to them) and thus trying to make the concept of a creator onsolete.
-Dinosaurs were created with man and were on the ark with Noah.
Khi- This is very much possible although only a theory. Dr. Kent presents his supporting evidence for this too. Check his website or call him directly. I believe the tel. no should be there too.
-After the flood they were hunted to the point of extinction in most parts of the world by man.
Khi- Correct thats his theory and is very much possible and probable too.
-A few dinosaurs are still alive in various parts of the world today
I rest my case.
Peace,
TayKhi- Well depends on how you define them. Dr. Kent claims that a ceratin large reptile alive today may yet be termed as a dino. Call him and hell explain it better to you. GOD Bless!
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Salam Jaxal,
SaLaM idmkhizar
What do you think that first organism was? a human baby?
Khi- The organism was a replicating cell once the atoms assembled to that part. Then it probably did pass through all stages but i cant say whether the human creature walked the earth as a baby or stayed connected to the embryo wall until maturity when it received the soul and Adam was taught the names of different things from GOD directly
He taught Adam all the names then presented them to the angels, saying, "Give me the names of these, if you are right."
I tend more towards this 2nd one. GOD Bless! -
Salam Andaya Primanda,
Khi- As i said before fossils cannot count stand up as evidence in any court of the world. Moreover much of them, if not all, have been faked while others WERE DELIBERATELY PUT IN A FICTICIOUS ORDER TO FIT THE THEORY and this is not science but pure speculation of how it might have happened. So the only proof would be to show transitional forms alive today. After all why should all of them have vanished? Doesnt make any sense and is highly unprobable but is just another excuse to promote the ape-men evolution. GOD Bless!
And this is why I consider you ignorant and stubborn. Your claim 'much of them is fake or hoax' is not based on any evidence, while I have seen and touch fossils, even those that can be claimed as transitionals. They are not fakes, and they are accepted in the 'court' of science unlike what you claim. By the way, IIRC, in some US court cases related to the teaching of evolution and creationism, some scientist witnesses has used fossils as one of the main lines of evidence that points at evolution. And hey, they win. So fossils are credible in courts of US law too.
Human evolution is not an agenda that needs to be promoted by hoaxes and false credentials (You still claim that Kent Hovind is credible while even the creationists themselves have a low opinion of him). The evidence is there for all who have eyes and want to see them. Only those close-minded would deny the evidence.
Why should the transitionals vanish? They just went extinct, just like 99% of all species that have ever lived on Earth. Extinction is inevitable for all species, it's just a matter of time.
You are just ignorant, and worse, you refuse attempts to enlighten you. Acknowledge that.
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Peace Idmkhizar,
For the sake of brevity, I'll only address what is pertinent to the topic. If that's not OK with you, we can start a new thread...
Some transitions should be apparent in all times otherwise it doesnt make sense.
Again, bro, please give us a backdrop why it does not make sense. It does make sense if you understand that things don't evolve just to evolve. The process is a refinement and adaptation based on the environment. If an environment remains relatively static, and the species remains relatively successful then there is no need for refinement or adaptation.
in response to my query, "Using your logic, every avenue of science, religion, arts, politics, and human thought in general should thus be discredited. Unless of course, you can name a branch of human thought that is completely free from any form of fraud throughout it's life."
you replied
Quran Aloners who believe in code-19 i guess.
OK, so your position is that every facet of human knowledge that does not come from Qur'an Aloners who believe in code 19 must then be illegitimate? Is this your position?
Do you know that many scientific text books TODAY still have those lies in them which were proven wrong 150 yrs ago, eg tht the human embryo has gill slits was proven wrong yrs ago yet macro evolutionists dont bother taking that out of their text books.
Please provide me with the text to support your claim.
The point is im not trying to prove macro evolution which you apparently are. So the burden of proof is on you.
Actually, you started this thread, which called for a "LIVING transitional form between humans and apes". You went on to say that without this living evidence, "this whole argument is nothing but conjecture".
Yet, you've failed to prove why a living transitional form is even necessary. So, since we're getting to the heart of the matter, would you care to finally address this?
You didnt get what i said. I said go to PLACES IN THE RAIN FOREST WHERE MAN HASNT INTERFERRED MUCH AS YET, if there are any.
Yelling isn't nice cry
What you actually said, is
I advise you to go and search in places like the rain forest where man hasnt yet manipulated much and see how animals live there.
See, it's different than what you yelled above. It's OK though. Let's move on...
You want me to go to the jungle and search for harmoniuos animal life. Why? Did I ever say that animals don't live in harmony? What I said was, in nature, when more than one species competes for the same resource, and that resource become limited, then usually one species outperforms the other. I've given examples and you say these are all caused by men, but you don't say how they're caused by men, you ask me to go to the jungle and look at the harmony.
Is it me, or is this thing going in circles????
Please go and visit www.drdino.com , youll hopefully find everything there.
I did. I didn't find his resume on the website. Can you please post it if you have it. If not, I'll have to assume that these are his credentials
Graduated Midwestern Baptist College; "bachelor of religious education degree" "double majored in education and the Bible"
"I finished my Masters (198 and Doctorate (1991) degrees in education from Patriot University." "while it was a ministry of Hilltop Baptist Church"Imperfect according to me means things competing instead of cooperating for example. Walking the earth without being yet fully adjusted to its environment is another important example of imperfection.
Thank you for your definition.
Now, please tell me if lions and hyenas compete or cooperate.Does the Quran say Iblis had no evil thoughts before in his mind before he fell? I dont think it does
So your position is that Iblis was of the malaika, prior to the existence of man, and was already evil. Is this correct?
Oh so you dont believe in code-19 either and that 9128&129 do NOT belong to the Quran?
Bro, stay focused. If you want to debate code 19 we can do it on anoher thread.
Told you that otherwise the matjematical symmtry of the Quran is violated which you probably didnt study as yet. I urge you to go through RK's appendices.
This has nothing to do with what you said
Ive given you logical reasons as to why my views maybe more resonable and probable
You didn't do what said you did, nor have you addressed your claim that initiated this very thread.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Idmkhizar,
Ill ignore this because such attacks always happen when one wants to discredit a person going against "majority" opinion.
OK. We'll cross-reference the info once you post his credentials.
I never said that Dr. Hovind is right on each and everything. That is his belief for whatever reasons though absurd it maybe.
Fair enough. I agree with the second part.
This is very much possible although only a theory. Dr. Kent presents his supporting evidence for this too. Check his website or call him directly. I believe the tel. no should be there too.
Possible? Are you kidding me? Dinosaurs lived with man and were on Noah's Ark? How big was this Ark, the size of Japan? Further, you say "only a theory".
www.dictionary.com
the?o?ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-r, th?r)
n. pl. the?o?ries
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.I'd say it's a wild guess...
guess ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gs)
v. guessed, guess?ing, guess?es
v. tr.
To assume, presume, or assert (a fact) without sufficient informationPeace,
Tay -
Khizar,
About going to rainforests and animals living in harmony
Why don't you ask me? I have been doing that stuff. I come from Indonesia where there are rainforests! I've been in them.
And yes, the animals kill each other. I know for one that rhinos and wild bulls compete for food (rhinos usually lose, poor beasts. This comes from a friend of mine who was researching rhinos). Don't get me started on insects. Nasty little ones, they are. Ants will tolerate no living thing that got into their way--they will attack everything beetles, termites,even mice and frogs.
But considering you're living in Germany I don't suppose you go to jungles often? Then how can you say animals live in harmony without evidence while I have seen otherwise right where you say it happens? Is that how you argue?