the reading(quran) is not the title of any book
-
And when its implied on a person's behaviour, it takes the meaning ''selfish''
isn't that same as ego? ego = self-pride/self-importance/selfish ?
So, whats the point there? isn't all of them bring to the same conclusion that is "self"...
Science
ego (ee-goh)The ?I? or self of any person (ego is Latin for ?I?). In psychological terms, the ego is the part of the psyche that experiences the outside world and reacts to it, coming between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social environment, represented by the superego.
The term ego is often used to mean personal pride and self-absorption ?Losing at chess doesn't do much for my ego.?
Medical
e?go ('g, g'ō
n.In psychoanalytic theory, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and mediates between the person and external reality.
WordNet
Note click on a word meaning below to see its connections and related words.The noun ego has 3 meanings
Meaning #1 an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others
Synonyms egotism, self-importanceMeaning #2 your consciousness of your own identity
Synonym selfMeaning #3 (psychoanalysis) the conscious mind
you see, you can't just take ego as a self-pride...u need to look at it in more detailed...self-pride etc is just the sub-set of our state of mind...
In order to understand more..I suggest you get about related to psychology or anything in that topic..
So, human will is not ego, love, hatred etc are not ego. U got it wrong. it has to be self-love, self-hatred etc..
See, you gave the answer yourself...
Ask yourself...Why do you love your mom?
Because she is your mom..
She cares about you..see, everything is "related" to you...yourself"...
And hatred..why do you hate someone??? is because they do something bad to YOU.. or did something that made YOU unhappy!
Would you "hate" someone that never do anything to you?Or do anything that made you unhappy?
NO.You understand now? everything is related to "self"?
you won't be able to "love" or "hate" anyone that has nothing to do with yourself
So, tell me, which of my explaination is wrong?
There are more blind people(as in blind from their lack of usage of brains) than those without eyesight.
And if Quran is for everyone, in the world, why cant it be a book?
God says in Quran, that Quran is for those who can read and understand. So, in that sense, people with no brains or those who blind fold themselves wont be able to understand Quran.blind folded and physically blind is two different things and what is "read"?
And for people without eyesight who wish to know the contents of the Quran, it can be read out to them, or they can be given a book in their coded language for them to read.
if its is a book...
So, how if nobody is going to explain to them? How are they going to know that the one reading to them is not cheating them? Even if you can "read" to them, and let say you read to them the verse below
"He is the One who made the sun to emit light, and the moon to reflect it, and He measured its phases so that you would know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except for truth. He details the revelations for a people who know." - 106
How are they suppose to verify the verse above? How is "the book" suppose to explain anything to them????
Do you think god forgot that "blind" people won't be able to see the sun and the moon to understand the "verse" above??
And man can count always on his own conscience, which contains God's spirit, to guide us, anyways.
Peace!
So, who needs "the book" then???
-
Hello zsrin
I believe you suffer from high level of ego according to the definitions you keep bringing in
chill out man and drop your ego wink
-
peace,
Perhaps, because "I want" people to "open their mind"...I "want" people to gain more knowledge...cause I "want" a peaceful world with no "discrimination"....you see, I myself have an ego..because "I want"...but to say that as a "high level ego".. I don't think so...because if I am having a "high level ego" I won't bother to share my knowledge..in other words..I would be a selfish guy... wink
-
peace,
Perhaps, because "I want" people to "open their mind"...I "want" people to gain more knowledge...cause I "want" a peaceful world with no "discrimination"....you see, I myself have an ego..because "I want"...but to say that as a "high level ego".. I don't think so...because if I am having a "high level ego" I won't bother to share my knowledge..in other words..I would be a selfish guy... wink
sounds like a good mission to me, good luck with it
peace
-
the signficance of that is to prove that what you are writing is comong from someone knowledgable, not a new kid on the block
So basically, the miraceleous part is about someone with knowledge comes up with the text? A kid of the block simply won't do it. Got it. So the one knowledgeable, is there anyone that needs to authorize the level of this person's knowledge?
Does this miracle part even say in the "challenge" verse or did you make it up?well I don't know what that Qurishi arabic you are talking about, but if it makes you feel good to write in it, please do
Well, the Arabic of the Koran and the modern standard arabic are not consistent. Haven't you noticed?
The dialect used in the Koran is often refered to as Quraishi Arabic. -
the signficance of that is to prove that what you are writing is comong from someone knowledgable, not a new kid on the block
So basically, the miraceleous part is about someone with knowledge comes up with the text? A kid of the block simply won't do it. Got it. So the one knowledgeable, is there anyone that needs to authorize the level of this person's knowledge?
your work will be the judge
Does this miracle part even say in the "challenge" verse or did you make it up?
forget the miracle word then, I want something stunnig
well I don't know what that Qurishi arabic you are talking about, but if it makes you feel good to write in it, please do
Well, the Arabic of the Koran and the modern standard arabic are not consistent. Haven't you noticed?
No I didn't, but I think the Qurishi Arabic (accent) is very advanced from what I know
The dialect used in the Koran is often refered to as Quraishi Arabic.
where is the verses that suggest that?
-
the signficance of that is to prove that what you are writing is comong from someone knowledgable, not a new kid on the block
So basically, the miraceleous part is about someone with knowledge comes up with the text? A kid of the block simply won't do it. Got it. So the one knowledgeable, is there anyone that needs to authorize the level of this person's knowledge?
your work will be the judge
So my work gets to authorize itself? Sounds a bit vague, doesn?t it?
Does this miracle part even say in the "challenge" verse or did you make it up?
forget the miracle word then, I want something stunnig
Well that?s because you see the Koran as stunning. Another may consider it ?interesting? or a third thinks of it as ?fairly well written?. So as the challenge asks for a ?chapter like it?, are you the one to distinguish that ?stunning? is the term that it has to be referred to as?
Well, the Arabic of the Koran and the modern standard arabic are not consistent. Haven't you noticed?
No I didn't, but I think the Qurishi Arabic (accent) is very advanced from what I know
Judge for yourself, it?s in the Koran. For myself I think it?s sufficient and that?s about it.
The dialect used in the Koran is often refered to as Quraishi Arabic.
where is the verses that suggest that?
Well, the Arabic of that time and place is not consistent with the one that is known as ?Arabic? today so it makes sense that modern linguists has come with a term to separate them. And this is the reason why it is not given the name ?Quraishi Arabic?. That would be as stretched as we refer to the language of our conversation to be ?Old 21st century English?, knowing that it will evolve in the future.
-
the signficance of that is to prove that what you are writing is comong from someone knowledgable, not a new kid on the block
So basically, the miraceleous part is about someone with knowledge comes up with the text? A kid of the block simply won't do it. Got it. So the one knowledgeable, is there anyone that needs to authorize the level of this person's knowledge?
your work will be the judge
So my work gets to authorize itself? Sounds a bit vague, doesn?t it?
i might have said it wrong, excuse my ignorance in english,
what I mean that your work will be the thing that you will be judged on regarding a the stunning sura you are planning to create
Does this miracle part even say in the "challenge" verse or did you make it up?
forget the miracle word then, I want something stunnig
Well that?s because you see the Koran as stunning. Another may consider it ?interesting? or a third thinks of it as ?fairly well written?. So as the challenge asks for a ?chapter like it?, are you the one to distinguish that ?stunning? is the term that it has to be referred to as?
Yeh becaise I know the language fluently and it is my native tongue I can see how stunning it is, but I don't expect new learners in the language or the non arabic speaker will even sense 1% of it
Well, the Arabic of the Koran and the modern standard arabic are not consistent. Haven't you noticed?
No I didn't, but I think the Qurishi Arabic (accent) is very advanced from what I know
Judge for yourself, it?s in the Koran. For myself I think it?s sufficient and that?s about it.
excuse me, qurish was not the author of the Quran, so I wonder why you say the arabic quran is a qurishi arabic, can you provide any evidence from the Quran?
The dialect used in the Koran is often refered to as Quraishi Arabic.
where is the verses that suggest that?
Well, the Arabic of that time and place is not consistent with the one that is known as ?Arabic? today so it makes sense that modern linguists has come with a term to separate them. And this is the reason why it is not given the name ?Quraishi Arabic?. That would be as stretched as we refer to the language of our conversation to be ?Old 21st century English?, knowing that it will evolve in the future.
not sure about what you say, as far as native aravbic speaker can see, the Arabic quran is one piece of excpetional and stunning arabic and sure can't be matched unless you will succeed in your mission of creating a stunning sura like the Quran
-
Once again you have failed to declare the nature of this supposed challenge?
I have not claimed no authorship to no ?qurishi? by saying that the Koran is written in the dialect that modern linguists refer to as Quraishi Arabic. The reason they say that and not ?Arabic? is that they are not consistent. The texts that were written by Swedish King Gustav Vasa in the 16th century were written in Swedish indeed, but NOT the one that modern people refer to as ?Svenska? even though grammar and many words are the same. So they are separated by a new name to the elder dialect. The mere fact about modern Arabic and Koranic Arabic not being the same remains, regardless what we call the latter. Period.
About this thing that the work presented has to come fro a knowledgeable person, you haven?t clarified what it means.
I?m not very amazed that a native arab speaker refers to the Koran (being one of the greatest among legacies of culture and literature in the Arab world) as ?stunning?. However, you have not been able to prove that ?a chapter like it? refers to ?a chapter as stunning as one of the Koran?. And ?stunning?, in case you haven?t noticed, is a very subjective word. And I haven?t either figured out what?s so stunning about it. Personally, I think of the language structure of the Koran is quite poor compared to other Semitic texts. But once again, that is a very subjective thing, don?t you agree?
-
Salam "el-Aziz",
They are false, yes indeed. Inaccurate and stupid.
However, I would be delighted to discuss this matter but I'm afraid it doesn't seem to fit this section of this forum, does it?Anyway, let me know when you've used the calculator...
Peace!
JK- Ok then please tell me which points i mentioned are stupid, why and how? GOD Bless!
-
Salam "el-aziz",
Now you tell me about what a man cannot produce that the Koran has...
JK- A superhuman mathematical structure. Bro Bahman was an atheist. Math structure of Quran turned him into a believer. Hes ready to give up Quran if anyone can challenge this http//www.submission.org/challenge.html . Until now no one has done so including great mathematicians. Bro Bahman has shown other interesting interlocks of the Quran to mathematicians on which they were amazed. his personal site is www.y19.net GOD Bless!
-
Once again you have failed to declare the nature of this supposed challenge?
it seems that you are the one who failed to understand it
i suggest you forget it then, or possibly find someone else to explain it to you better than me
I have not claimed no authorship to no ?qurishi? by saying that the Koran is written in the dialect that modern linguists refer to as Quraishi Arabic. The reason they say that and not ?Arabic? is that they are not consistent.
ok who is not consistant?, Qurishsi Arabic?, and where did you manage to find some writings written in their accent? i never seen any myself
The texts that were written by Swedish King Gustav Vasa in the 16th century were written in Swedish indeed, but NOT the one that modern people refer to as ?Svenska? even though grammar and many words are the same. So they are separated by a new name to the elder dialect. The mere fact about modern Arabic and Koranic Arabic not being the same remains, regardless what we call the latter. Period.
ok, but the Quran Arabic is superior to the modern Arabic. Period.
About this thing that the work presented has to come fro a knowledgeable person, you haven?t clarified what it means.
not to worry bro, just forget it or find another person to talk you through it again
I?m not very amazed that a native arab speaker refers to the Koran (being one of the greatest among legacies of culture and literature in the Arab world) as ?stunning?.
yeh you are right, I'm very biased to my native language wink
no wonder many non arabic speaking muslims told me they feel jealous of native arabic speaking muslims lol
However, you have not been able to prove that ?a chapter like it? refers to ?a chapter as stunning as one of the Koran?.
well do i have to prove anything to anyone but me?
And ?stunning?, in case you haven?t noticed, is a very subjective word.
you mean relative word?
And I haven?t either figured out what?s so stunning about it.
that is normal as a non arabic speaker lol
Personally, I think of the language structure of the Koran is quite poor compared to other Semitic texts. But once again, that is a very subjective thing, don?t you agree?
agree on it as being subjective? no I don't I agree on it being but I will agree that it is relative based on the differences between humans like a solid arabic speaker, a novice arabic speaker and a non arabic speaker
The Quran is the perfect and direct words of our God and by you saying it is poor, it seems you are taking Iblis and his progny as protectors, good luck to you
for me the direct words of our God must be perfect and unmatchable regardless of any langugae used
peace
-
Peace be upon you Zsrin,
Idolfree you know what.. I really need some meditation...Its hard to make people to think "outside the box"....
D We all need meditation. My advice to you is to rememebr that PEACE is our natural state of being. Dont waste your time tryin to convince anyone who does not want to look at something different. It will cause you to get emotional , which is "succumbing to the snake in the garden" to use an old metaphor.
Take a step back and read the several pages that have gone by so far, then you will realize that its probably time to say "Peace", and move on to another thread for a while.
And that said easier said than done , trust me, I know D
-
Peace Zsrin,
If anyone think my understanding of "ego" is wrong..Please point out with facts...
The Arabic word "hawa" more closely means "fantasy" as opposed to "ego". For example, in 533 we hear the following
- And he doesn't talk from the "hawa".
Clearly, "hawa" here is in contrast to "truth" not "humbleness". So the passage is saying that he is speaking from the truth NOT from "humbleness".
This is further confirmed a few lines down in 5323 where following "what the selves fantasize" is used in contrast to following the guidance from the Lord.
As for the subject of this thread, it is abundantly clear from the great reading that the word "quran" is not a proper name. For example, it is a fact that The God Himself uses the word "quran" as a common noun. For example, He uses it to denote other readings in 1015, 1331, and 1788. It is used for another reading that people desire in 1015. It is used for another reading that can move mountains in 1331. It is used for another reading that is made by the humans and the "jinn" in 1788.
Moreover, there are many instances where the pointing device "this/hatha" is used to indicate this "quran"/reading (see 1037, 123, 179, 1789, 5677, etc.). Anyone who really knows anything about Arabic grammar knows that such devices are not used with proper names.
The expression "quran al-fajr" in 1778 makes it absolutely clear that the reading is a common noun describing the action of "reading at dawn".
017.078
YUSUFALI Establish regular prayers - at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony.
PICKTHAL Establish worship at the going down of the sun until the dark of night, and (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn is ever witnessed.
SHAKIR Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.
KHALIFA You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.Notice that out of the above translations, Shakir is the most correct translation. Pickthal and Khalifa had to insert the action (recital or reciting) in parenthesis because "the Quran at dawn" is meaningless nonsense. Yusufali correctly translated "quran" as reading but for some reason inserted the word "prayer", which doesn't occur in the passage.
The above is abundantly clear to anyone who can read but not to people who read through the dogma that they were spoon fed as children and fantasize that modern Arabic (or more accurately modern Egyptian colloquial Arabic) is the same as the Arabic of the great reading.
Peace,
Ayman
-
Peace
Those who suffer from an overwhelming ego are so ignorant to the fact that Reading means "Qira'aa" not "Quran"
well, Ignorance is a blyss as the old man said
The verse posted above should be translated as "The dawn Quran", ie the Quran that is read at dawn while most humans are asleep
what makes me laugh at those is this
IT IS BLOODY OBVIOUS FOR A CHILD THAT ANY BOOK IS FOR READING NOT FOR PLAYING HIDE AND SEEK NOR FOR COOKING, SO NAMING IT READING IS LIKE CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK lol lol
Peace
-
Peace Ahmed,
Being that English is not your native language, the fact that "reading" is both a verb and a noun may have slipped past you. So, in this case, your argument does not work.
Peace,
Tayhttp//dictionary.reference.com/search?q=reading
read?ing ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rdng)
n.
The act or activity of one that reads.
The act or practice of rendering aloud written or printed matter skilled at forensic reading.
An official or public recitation of written material the reading of a will; a reading by the poet of her own works.The specific form of a particular passage in a text an unusual reading of the old manuscript.
The distinctive interpretation of a work of performing art given by the person or persons performing it.
A personal interpretation or appraisal He gave us his reading of the situation.
Written or printed material.
The information indicated by a gauge or graduated instrument. -
Peace Ahmed,
Being that English is not your native language, the fact that "reading" is both a verb and a noun may have slipped past you. So, in this case, your argument does not work.
Peace,
Tayhttp//dictionary.reference.com/search?q=reading
read?ing ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rdng)
n.
The act or activity of one that reads.
The act or practice of rendering aloud written or printed matter skilled at forensic reading.
An official or public recitation of written material the reading of a will; a reading by the poet of her own works.The specific form of a particular passage in a text an unusual reading of the old manuscript.
The distinctive interpretation of a work of performing art given by the person or persons performing it.
A personal interpretation or appraisal He gave us his reading of the situation.
Written or printed material.
The information indicated by a gauge or graduated instrument.excuse me Tay, as I said I care less about what you post from english dictionaries, I will only care if I want to know the meaning of an english word
now what we have in hand is this
we want the meaning of the arabic word "Quran", not the english word reading lol
and Quran has one meaning in the arabic world not your english world, it means one thing only and it is the name of the scripture, like the Injil, Taorah and Zaboor
you and your team can work hard trying to twist it to make it mean reading but you will fail because reading means Qita'aa, not Quran
now for your silly argument that reading is a verb and a noun, who cares bro?, certainly not me, we are not talking english here regarding the Arabic word "Quran", which is a name like your name Tay and my name Ahmed
it is so silly to name a book "reading" in fact this idea suits well a stand up comedian session lol , and this is a sarcastic comment btw
Peace
-
Peace Ahmed,
we want the meaning of the arabic word "Quran", not the english word reading lol
OK. But we are discussing this in English, are we not? Therefore, what the gentlemen in this debate are arguing is what the ARABIC word "qur'an" means in ENGLISH.
According to 1778, three different translators agree that "qur'an" means "reading/recital", and 3 others have included "recital" in their tafseer.
What does that tell you, that they're all comedians?
you and your team can work hard trying to twist it to make it mean reading but you will fail because reading means Qita'aa, not Quran
There you go making assumptions again. I've not taken any stance in this debate. I'm just pointing out one aspect of it that you seem to have overlooked.
Peace,
Tay