To "Tay" and all those who believe GOD never....
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Peace Johnny,
Ive havent seen that either but not seeing a thing doesnt mean it cant happen.
Exactly. And I admitted that. But again, and again, and again, "can't" and "won't" are 2 different things. This is my position. Why are you trying to force your position on me?
This is what id call oversimplifying
Wonderful!
The Quran is a mathematically coded scripture ...
OK. I submit to your messenger. Can you stop bringing his teachings into every discussion now?
Ok, but what you need or dont need is irrelevant here
I'm sorry Johnny, but what I need is very relevant. My destiny is between myself and my Creator.
GOD has revealed the miracles in His Quran and thus we should appreciate them. Thats the point.
I do appreciate the text, and the guidance behind it, just not the way you would have me appreciate it. That's the point.
If GOD shows you a sign/miracle today, you cant say "well GOD i dont need it". That would be arrogance.
To be clear, Johnny, I don't need the crutch of supernatural stories from millenia ago. I appreciate Allah, and the guidance, without having to believe in these phenomena. Here and Now, I appreciate every moment of my life, every breath, every second. It's not arrogance, it's humility. Do you understand?
What is arrogant is going around telling people what they should and shouldn't believe, as if you have intimate knowledge of Allah's intentions.
Now if something supernatural occurred to me today, I would be in awe, reconfirming what I already know.
I ask you to ponder, without any concept of my underlying agenda, the following
6158
Do they wait until the Angels will come to them, or your Lord comes, or some signs from your Lord? The day some signs come from your Lord, it will do no good for any soul to believe if it did not believe before, or it gained good through its belief. Say "Wait, for we are waiting."I appreciate that but this also means that you should LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN and not become narrow minded.
Please look in the mirror, my friend. It required painstaking open-mindedness for me to shed the dogma of my Sunni upbringing. I once believed in all the miracles. I no longer do. And that is on me. I live by 1736, and if you see that as a fault, then take it up with your Creator.
You see we cannot take verses out of context.
It's not out of context, it's broader application.
Id like to know how(oversimplifying) since ive explained my point above.
By compartmentalizing Allah's guidance to it's immediate context.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Ahmed,
You stated
I believe in Allah who sent the Quran and I believe in the Quran, but I don't believe in the miracles written in it, lol
A VERY BIG CONTRADICTION
There is no contradiction, silly.
I believe in the signs, which happen to be the same text that you call miracles. So, you see, I believe in the text, but not the way you do.nope no contradiction.
what is also another obvious contradiction, that verse 23 says to be a believer YOU MUST BELIEVE IN THE "Ghaib" ie "The Unseen",
Oh, you mean like malaika and jinn and iblis? I believe in those unseen - just not the way you do. So, again, no contradiction. nope
Then they come back and say, oh sorry we can't believe in those miracles because WE DID NOT SEE IT,
I see, so now the story of Maryam and Isa is classified as ghaib? You're stretching again bro.
3179 Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which you are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen(alghaybi). But He chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His messengers And if you believe and do right, you have a reward without measure.
But thanks for your 2c wink
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Ahmed,
Peace Tay
You stated
I believe in Allah who sent the Quran and I believe in the Quran, but I don't believe in the miracles written in it, lol
A VERY BIG CONTRADICTION
There is no contradiction, silly.
I believe in the signs, which happen to be the same text that you call miracles. So, you see, I believe in the text, but not the way you do.nope no contradiction.
Ok, ok, sorry, I thought you don't believe in it at all, like you don't believe that Jesus has no father and that is also a miracle by Allah stated in the Quran
what is also another obvious contradiction, that verse 23 says to be a believer YOU MUST BELIEVE IN THE "Ghaib" ie "The Unseen",
Oh, you mean like malaika and jinn and iblis? I believe in those unseen - just not the way you do. So, again, no contradiction. nope
Ok, i just misunderstood you, but why you don't believe that Jesus has no father then?, the text was also clear in the Quran, see if you believe in the existance of the unseen Jinn that easy, how come you can't believe in a much easier task on Allah to create Jesus without a father?, you are the one that caused my confusion about you, because as far as I believe that miracle of Jesus birth was as clear as it can get in the Quran according to Allah plan, the idea you are proposing was not clear at all, sorry to side track
Then they come back and say, oh sorry we can't believe in those miracles because WE DID NOT SEE IT,
I see, so now the story of Maryam and Isa is classified as ghaib? You're stretching again bro.
3179 Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which you are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen(alghaybi). But He chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His messengers And if you believe and do right, you have a reward without measure.
Thanks bro for asking this question and give me the chance to try and logically stretch it again, I was expecting it from a smart and picky guy to be honest, this is not a sarcastic comment, I wished that you raise this very good question, and as always the Quran have the answer, yes these stories are Stories of the Ghaib that was revealed to Mohammad, i didn't say that, the Quran said it here it is, and amzingly it was linked to the story of mary that you don't believe happened
42- And when the angels said O Marium! surely Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of of the world.
43- O Marium! keep to obedience to your Lord and humble yourself, and bow down with those who bow.
44- This is of the announcements relating to the unseen which We reveal to you; and you were not with them when they cast their pens (to decide) which of them should have Marium in his charge, and you were not with them when they contended one with another.
45- When the angels said O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).
46- And he shall speak to the people when in the cradle and when of old age, and (he shall be) one of the good ones.
(42)
(43)
(44)
(45)
(46)
well, what can I say bro, the Quran keeps refuting your false claim about Jesus, also may I ask a couple of qeustions please
what do you think verse 446 means in regard to Jesus talking to the people?
and my other question
do you think I'm still stretching it?
But thanks for your 2c wink
Peace,
TayNo worries and i hope I added another 2c wink
Peace
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Peace Tay
Sorry to bother you again, I need to elaborate on the verse you posted in fact it clearly shows where you are mixed up
I see, so now the story of Maryam and Isa is classified as ghaib? You're stretching again bro.
3179 Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which you are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen(alghaybi). But He chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His messengers And if you believe and do right, you have a reward without measure.
So you brought in verse 3179 and you think that Allah does not disclose Al-Ghaib to Mohammad,
I?m sorry bro the verse was directed at the believers that Allah will not disclose to them those secrets of the unseen, then he excluded the prophets that he chooses to disclose to them the Ghaib it is obvious bro from ? But He chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His messengers? here is the whole Arabic verse for the Arabic readers
(179)
The red words represented in the translation you posted by "But He chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases."
Ie. Allah will disclose some secrets to the messengers He chose then those messengers will disclose it to us, however you are here going totally against the odds, because you are denying what Allah is disclosing to us directly in the Quran through the stories of the people before us an example from the Quran of these disclosures to the prophets was posted in my last comment,
344 CELARLY SAYS THIS IS RELATING TO THE DISCLOSURE OF THE GHAIB and amazingly bro the story of Mariam was told after and the fact you use that you did not see WAS TOLD TO THE PROPHET THAT HE ALSO DIDN'T SEE IT AND SURE HE MUST BELIEVE IN IT HIMSELF AS WELL
44- This is of the announcements relating to the unseen which We reveal to you; and you were not with them when they cast their pens (to decide) which of them should have Marium in his charge, and you were not with them when they contended one with another.
(44)
Peace be with you
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Peace,
A miracle is something which is too powerful for a human or a collection of humans to do at any particular time period.
So earthquakes, volcanoes, and hurricanes are all miracles according to you even though they are commonplace?
I also do not require miracles to believe and echo Tay's sentiments in relation to life itself. The fact that there is anything at all - rather than nothing is to me the only "miracle".
Regards.
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We dont know what methods GOD used in the past to protect the Quran...
The "Quran" is not protected.
The reminder (zhikr) is protected 159.
I believe that this actually means the reminder is MAINTAINED. That the God ensures that the message is always available to people and this may be in more forms than just the reading.
The text may become corrupted, but the essential message of monotheism and the last day is maintained.
Regards.
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Salaams All,
Jonny said
?GOD helped His prophets many times by supernatural means?
And what are those?
Ahmed said
?Believers do need to believe in the past miracles the Quran told us about?
I don?t see any such things ,but there is a lot of mistranslations in it though.
You can point them out for me though.
Gods Blessings.
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Peace,
just my 2c...
Your 2c really has a lot of spending power hasn't it?
It certainly goes a long way )
Regards.
lol
Bro I thought the 2c comments are a METAPHORE to cheap comments wink
cheers
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The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it
Peace Ahmed,
I sometimes wonder if you would believe the message if it was in Chinese. You seem to really be hung up on the Arabic.
Regards.
Peace Bro Oben
will, i donlyt really know bro because I'm sure it will also depends on how Allah will guide anyone depending on his sincerety and non arrorgance , because Allah does not like the arrogant as written in the Arabic Quran, as i guess it would be written also in the Chinease Quran if it was sent in Chinease
Peace
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Hi all,
Hello bro JK
It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?
I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah
The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it
Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock
Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?
Whats with the language obsession here?
Arabic is just another language.
God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.Peace!
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Hi all,
Hello bro JK
It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?
I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah
The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it
Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock
Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?
Whats with the language obsession here?
Arabic is just another language.
God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.Peace!
Oh please sister
I thought you are smarter than this to understand what i meant by the Arabic Quran "No offence here sister"
I will give you an exampe dear sister
i can say
I love my car
and i can also say
I love my red car
the second means i'm just being specific however both comments means
I love my car
Hence in my quran comment
if I say it like this
because of its content
or if I say like this
because of it arabic content
both commets means
because of its content
Arabic is an adjective like the color red that describe my car
got it sister?
peace be with you
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Hi AhmedBahgat,
Hi all,
Hello bro JK
It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?
I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah
The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it
Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock
Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?
Whats with the language obsession here?
Arabic is just another language.
God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.Peace!
Oh please sister
I thought you are smarter than this to understand what i meant by the Arabic Quran "No offence here sister"
I will give you an exampe dear sister
i can say
I love my car
and i can also say
I love my red car
the second means i'm just being specific however both comments means
I love my car
Hence in my quran comment
if I say it like this
because of its content
or if I say like this
because of it arabic content
both commets means
because of its content
Arabic is an adjective like the color red that describe my car
got it sister?Dont blame me for misunderstanding ur statement ) coz u sure didnt put it clear enough. Ur statement that u made earlier, meant to say, 'we dont need code 19 to believe that Quran is a true book of Allah but the fact that it is in Arabic, is proof enough''.
Thats why I spoke against that idea.Anyways, Peace! I understand u didnt mean any specialness in 'arabic' as such. It just wasnt well said.
Peace!
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Hi AhmedBahgat,
Hi all,
Hello bro JK
It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?
I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah
The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it
Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock
Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?
Whats with the language obsession here?
Arabic is just another language.
God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.Peace!
Oh please sister
I thought you are smarter than this to understand what i meant by the Arabic Quran "No offence here sister"
I will give you an exampe dear sister
i can say
I love my car
and i can also say
I love my red car
the second means i'm just being specific however both comments means
I love my car
Hence in my quran comment
if I say it like this
because of its content
or if I say like this
because of it arabic content
both commets means
because of its content
Arabic is an adjective like the color red that describe my car
got it sister?Dont blame me for misunderstanding ur statement coz u sure didnt put it clear enough. Ur statement that u made earlier, meant to say, 'we dont need code 19 to believe that Quran is a true book of Allah but the fact that it is in Arabic, is proof enough''.
Thats why I spoke against that idea.Anyways, Peace! I understand u didnt mean any specialness in 'arabic' as such. It just wasnt well said.
Peace!
lol
ok sister no worries
peace
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Peace Ahmed,
Please translate this for me
Thalika min anba-i alghaybi
Peace tay
The exact translation should be
This is some of the Unseen News
But it also means
This is some of the Unseen Stories
Remeber Tay, it is not stories as human stories because God does not tell us stories unless it happened or will happen, He is not like us
that is why this unseen news was part of the Wahi sent to Mohammad and we must believe in it if we want to call ourselves believers in the Unseen,I may ask, What is your point that you believe in the verses which talk about miracles in the Quran ?, do you mean that it is Allah words and that's all? if that is the case, then what these words mean to you exactly.
please don't tell me guidance because i already know that and you and me can easily see the "do" and "do not" in it. i mean in addition to guidance regarding the parts that have no guidance and are nothing but statements of facts by Allah?
Peace bro