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  4. To "Tay" and all those who believe GOD never....

To "Tay" and all those who believe GOD never....

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  • U Offline
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    unknownuser
    wrote on last edited by
    #19

    Peace Ahmed,

    Peace Tay

    You stated

    I believe in Allah who sent the Quran and I believe in the Quran, but I don't believe in the miracles written in it, lol

    A VERY BIG CONTRADICTION

    There is no contradiction, silly.
    I believe in the signs, which happen to be the same text that you call miracles. So, you see, I believe in the text, but not the way you do.

    nope no contradiction.

    Ok, ok, sorry, I thought you don't believe in it at all, like you don't believe that Jesus has no father and that is also a miracle by Allah stated in the Quran

    what is also another obvious contradiction, that verse 23 says to be a believer YOU MUST BELIEVE IN THE "Ghaib" ie "The Unseen",

    Oh, you mean like malaika and jinn and iblis? I believe in those unseen - just not the way you do. So, again, no contradiction. nope

    Ok, i just misunderstood you, but why you don't believe that Jesus has no father then?, the text was also clear in the Quran, see if you believe in the existance of the unseen Jinn that easy, how come you can't believe in a much easier task on Allah to create Jesus without a father?, you are the one that caused my confusion about you, because as far as I believe that miracle of Jesus birth was as clear as it can get in the Quran according to Allah plan, the idea you are proposing was not clear at all, sorry to side track

    Then they come back and say, oh sorry we can't believe in those miracles because WE DID NOT SEE IT,

    I see, so now the story of Maryam and Isa is classified as ghaib? You're stretching again bro.

    3179 Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which you are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen(alghaybi). But He chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His messengers And if you believe and do right, you have a reward without measure.

    Thanks bro for asking this question and give me the chance to try and logically stretch it again, I was expecting it from a smart and picky guy to be honest, this is not a sarcastic comment, I wished that you raise this very good question, and as always the Quran have the answer, yes these stories are Stories of the Ghaib that was revealed to Mohammad, i didn't say that, the Quran said it here it is, and amzingly it was linked to the story of mary that you don't believe happened

    42- And when the angels said O Marium! surely Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of of the world.

    43- O Marium! keep to obedience to your Lord and humble yourself, and bow down with those who bow.

    44- This is of the announcements relating to the unseen which We reveal to you; and you were not with them when they cast their pens (to decide) which of them should have Marium in his charge, and you were not with them when they contended one with another.

    45- When the angels said O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).

    46- And he shall speak to the people when in the cradle and when of old age, and (he shall be) one of the good ones.

    (42)

    (43)

    (44)

    (45)

    (46)

    well, what can I say bro, the Quran keeps refuting your false claim about Jesus, also may I ask a couple of qeustions please

    what do you think verse 446 means in regard to Jesus talking to the people?

    and my other question

    do you think I'm still stretching it?

    But thanks for your 2c wink

    Peace,
    Tay

    No worries and i hope I added another 2c wink

    Peace

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      phoenix1
      wrote on last edited by
      #20

      peace

      so Johnny K, if you believe that Jesus was born without a father, and you believe everything else in the story as actual occurance, then can you please provide me with some evidence. If its good enough, you might even buy it.

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        unknownuser
        wrote on last edited by
        #21

        Peace Tay

        Sorry to bother you again, I need to elaborate on the verse you posted in fact it clearly shows where you are mixed up

        I see, so now the story of Maryam and Isa is classified as ghaib? You're stretching again bro.

        3179 Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which you are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen(alghaybi). But He chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His messengers And if you believe and do right, you have a reward without measure.

        So you brought in verse 3179 and you think that Allah does not disclose Al-Ghaib to Mohammad,

        I?m sorry bro the verse was directed at the believers that Allah will not disclose to them those secrets of the unseen, then he excluded the prophets that he chooses to disclose to them the Ghaib it is obvious bro from ? But He chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His messengers? here is the whole Arabic verse for the Arabic readers

        (179)

        The red words represented in the translation you posted by "But He chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases."

        Ie. Allah will disclose some secrets to the messengers He chose then those messengers will disclose it to us, however you are here going totally against the odds, because you are denying what Allah is disclosing to us directly in the Quran through the stories of the people before us an example from the Quran of these disclosures to the prophets was posted in my last comment,

        344 CELARLY SAYS THIS IS RELATING TO THE DISCLOSURE OF THE GHAIB and amazingly bro the story of Mariam was told after and the fact you use that you did not see WAS TOLD TO THE PROPHET THAT HE ALSO DIDN'T SEE IT AND SURE HE MUST BELIEVE IN IT HIMSELF AS WELL

        44- This is of the announcements relating to the unseen which We reveal to you; and you were not with them when they cast their pens (to decide) which of them should have Marium in his charge, and you were not with them when they contended one with another.

        (44)

        Peace be with you

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          truth
          wrote on last edited by
          #22

          Peace,

          A miracle is something which is too powerful for a human or a collection of humans to do at any particular time period.

          So earthquakes, volcanoes, and hurricanes are all miracles according to you even though they are commonplace?

          I also do not require miracles to believe and echo Tay's sentiments in relation to life itself. The fact that there is anything at all - rather than nothing is to me the only "miracle".

          Regards.

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            truth
            wrote on last edited by
            #23

            Peace,

            just my 2c...

            Your 2c really has a lot of spending power hasn't it?

            It certainly goes a long way )

            Regards.

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              truth
              wrote on last edited by
              #24

              The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it

              Peace Ahmed,

              I sometimes wonder if you would believe the message if it was in Chinese. You seem to really be hung up on the Arabic.

              Regards.

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                truth
                wrote on last edited by
                #25

                We dont know what methods GOD used in the past to protect the Quran...

                The "Quran" is not protected.

                The reminder (zhikr) is protected 159.

                I believe that this actually means the reminder is MAINTAINED. That the God ensures that the message is always available to people and this may be in more forms than just the reading.

                The text may become corrupted, but the essential message of monotheism and the last day is maintained.

                Regards.

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                  truth
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #26

                  JK- Ok but we should not say that its all just allegory either. GOD Bless!

                  What if all the stories were allegorical?

                  Would you cease to believe?

                  Regards.

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                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #27

                    Salaams All,

                    Jonny said

                    ?GOD helped His prophets many times by supernatural means?

                    And what are those?

                    Ahmed said

                    ?Believers do need to believe in the past miracles the Quran told us about?

                    I don?t see any such things ,but there is a lot of mistranslations in it though.

                    You can point them out for me though.

                    Gods Blessings.

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                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #28

                      Peace,

                      just my 2c...

                      Your 2c really has a lot of spending power hasn't it?

                      It certainly goes a long way )

                      Regards.

                      lol

                      Bro I thought the 2c comments are a METAPHORE to cheap comments wink

                      cheers

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                      • U Offline
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                        unknownuser
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #29

                        The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it

                        Peace Ahmed,

                        I sometimes wonder if you would believe the message if it was in Chinese. You seem to really be hung up on the Arabic.

                        Regards.

                        Peace Bro Oben

                        will, i donlyt really know bro because I'm sure it will also depends on how Allah will guide anyone depending on his sincerety and non arrorgance , because Allah does not like the arrogant as written in the Arabic Quran, as i guess it would be written also in the Chinease Quran if it was sent in Chinease

                        Peace

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                          unknownuser
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #30

                          Hi all,

                          Hello bro JK

                          It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?

                          I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah

                          The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it

                          Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock

                          Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?

                          Whats with the language obsession here?

                          Arabic is just another language.
                          God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.

                          Peace!

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                          • U Offline
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                            unknownuser
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #31

                            Hi all,

                            Hello bro JK

                            It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?

                            I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah

                            The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it

                            Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock

                            Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?

                            Whats with the language obsession here?

                            Arabic is just another language.
                            God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.

                            Peace!

                            Oh please sister

                            I thought you are smarter than this to understand what i meant by the Arabic Quran "No offence here sister"

                            I will give you an exampe dear sister

                            i can say

                            I love my car

                            and i can also say

                            I love my red car

                            the second means i'm just being specific however both comments means

                            I love my car

                            Hence in my quran comment

                            if I say it like this

                            because of its content

                            or if I say like this

                            because of it arabic content

                            both commets means

                            because of its content

                            Arabic is an adjective like the color red that describe my car

                            got it sister?

                            peace be with you

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                            • U Offline
                              U Offline
                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #32

                              Hi AhmedBahgat,

                              Hi all,

                              Hello bro JK

                              It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?

                              I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah

                              The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it

                              Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock

                              Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?

                              Whats with the language obsession here?

                              Arabic is just another language.
                              God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.

                              Peace!

                              Oh please sister
                              I thought you are smarter than this to understand what i meant by the Arabic Quran "No offence here sister"
                              I will give you an exampe dear sister
                              i can say
                              I love my car
                              and i can also say
                              I love my red car
                              the second means i'm just being specific however both comments means
                              I love my car
                              Hence in my quran comment
                              if I say it like this
                              because of its content
                              or if I say like this
                              because of it arabic content
                              both commets means
                              because of its content
                              Arabic is an adjective like the color red that describe my car
                              got it sister?

                              Dont blame me for misunderstanding ur statement ) coz u sure didnt put it clear enough. Ur statement that u made earlier, meant to say, 'we dont need code 19 to believe that Quran is a true book of Allah but the fact that it is in Arabic, is proof enough''.
                              Thats why I spoke against that idea.

                              Anyways, Peace! I understand u didnt mean any specialness in 'arabic' as such. It just wasnt well said.

                              Peace!

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                              • U Offline
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                                unknownuser
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #33

                                Hi AhmedBahgat,

                                Hi all,

                                Hello bro JK

                                It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?

                                I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah

                                The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it

                                Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock

                                Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?

                                Whats with the language obsession here?

                                Arabic is just another language.
                                God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.

                                Peace!

                                Oh please sister
                                I thought you are smarter than this to understand what i meant by the Arabic Quran "No offence here sister"
                                I will give you an exampe dear sister
                                i can say
                                I love my car
                                and i can also say
                                I love my red car
                                the second means i'm just being specific however both comments means
                                I love my car
                                Hence in my quran comment
                                if I say it like this
                                because of its content
                                or if I say like this
                                because of it arabic content
                                both commets means
                                because of its content
                                Arabic is an adjective like the color red that describe my car
                                got it sister?

                                Dont blame me for misunderstanding ur statement coz u sure didnt put it clear enough. Ur statement that u made earlier, meant to say, 'we dont need code 19 to believe that Quran is a true book of Allah but the fact that it is in Arabic, is proof enough''.
                                Thats why I spoke against that idea.

                                Anyways, Peace! I understand u didnt mean any specialness in 'arabic' as such. It just wasnt well said.

                                Peace!

                                lol

                                ok sister no worries

                                peace

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                                  Tay
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #34

                                  Peace Ahmed,

                                  Please translate this for me

                                  Thalika min anba-i alghaybi nooheehi

                                  I have it as
                                  That (is) from the unseen's information

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                                    unknownuser
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #35

                                    Peace Ahmed,

                                    Please translate this for me

                                    Thalika min anba-i alghaybi

                                    Peace tay

                                    The exact translation should be

                                    This is some of the Unseen News

                                    But it also means

                                    This is some of the Unseen Stories

                                    Remeber Tay, it is not stories as human stories because God does not tell us stories unless it happened or will happen, He is not like us
                                    that is why this unseen news was part of the Wahi sent to Mohammad and we must believe in it if we want to call ourselves believers in the Unseen,

                                    I may ask, What is your point that you believe in the verses which talk about miracles in the Quran ?, do you mean that it is Allah words and that's all? if that is the case, then what these words mean to you exactly.

                                    please don't tell me guidance because i already know that and you and me can easily see the "do" and "do not" in it. i mean in addition to guidance regarding the parts that have no guidance and are nothing but statements of facts by Allah?

                                    Peace bro

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                                      Tay
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #36

                                      Peace Ahmed,

                                      Doesn't "min" mean from?

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                                      • U Offline
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                                        unknownuser
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #37

                                        Peace Ahmed,

                                        Doesn't "min" mean from?

                                        Absolutely, and that is why i added tyhe word SOME OF = MIN = FROM

                                        ie,

                                        this is some of the unseen news

                                        or

                                        this is from the unseen news

                                        a native arabic speaker will understand it on the spot, while it may sound odd to a non arabic speaker

                                        the Quran used this style of Min a lot because it is popular in the common arabic language, check 28, Min Al Nas = Some of the Poeple = From the People

                                        In effect it means, Allah didn't disclose oll the stories of the Ghaib "that they didn't know it or see it

                                        Peace

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                                          Tay
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #38

                                          Peace Ahmed,

                                          Thanks for the info. I happen to agree.
                                          So, the story is being recited from the unseen. It can only be this way, since the events did actually happen, right? I mean, there were real witnesses who did see Maryam. For them it was seen, not unseen.

                                          Now, we've already agreed to disgree on what the story actually means. But we both recognize where the story is from - al-ghaybi.

                                          Conclusion if you're going to classify the story of Maryam as "unseen", then you must apply the same to every single word of the Qur'an, since it all comes from the "unseen", and none of us have ever seen any of the events that took place.

                                          So, where does that leave us, brother?
                                          Back to square one.

                                          I believe in every word of the Qur'an, and I believe in the unseen. But I do not interpret the words the same way you do.

                                          Agreed?

                                          Peace,
                                          Tay

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