Prophet Mohammed

[unknownuser]

Peace be upon you Ahmed,

Hello bro

idolfree1 wrote
I dont understand what you mean when you say "I am one who is hard to debate"?? Can you elaborate? I thought that topic were debated, not people.

Bro this is simple, I'm a tough debater, ie, if I believe hard in something and I have compelling evidences to defend it, I will never let go until I run out of evidences or logics

Ok, I just think that it is an error to look upon youself as a tough debater, to me that sounds like stubborn.

lol , I call it confidence and my confidence was gained in 25 years studying the Arabic Quran, I still have many surprises to you bro all from the Quran you say you know and believe in it

your concept will be demolished using the Quran

just be patient wih me bro

It sounds like someone who just wants to win his point, not obtain truth.

sure as always ythe Haqq from the Quran will win over me and you, but I donlt twist the Quran verses, I take it exactly as it says

A tough debator sounds like they wil have trouble softening thier heart to recieve better info.

I only soften my heart to any sensible concept like Joe theft punishment, but if I confront non sense then I have to do what I have to do

idolfree1 wrote
just make sure you realize that "shaitan" is within man, not some being out there somewhere tha we can lay blame on.

Excuse me bro, did I blame the shaitan?, no i didn't, so don't change my words into another concept please

I guess the tough debator in you was unable to see that I did not say you blamed shaitaan. I said "that WE can lay blame on", not "YOU".

excuse me bro, can you please exculde me from the "We", also regarding tough debating, you ain''t see npthing yet, i'm just gettin to know the members here then I will role

your concept is flawed and contradictory

you said Peace is our nature

then you said that "shaitan" is within man

How this can possibly happen bro?, it makes no sense to me

Peace is your nature,

sorry bro, how do you know my nature?

emotions are the servants which allow us to DO THINGS in the world.

bro you said this before, any new info?

We are NOT our emotions. Unfortunately, many are controlled by thier emotions.

Sure we are not our emotions, and why unfortunate that many are controlled by emotions, here is a simlititude

If my father dies, do you think I should not let y emotions take over and should not cry?

Yes, shaitan is within man, it "whispers" to you to do this and that, but we dont have to respond to those whispers, we can remain at peace.

lol , so when shaitan wispers to me, I can remain in peace?, that is so funny bro, can you please confirm with a verse from the Quran?

Do you realize that we greet PEACE be upon you? ANd that the greeting of the garden is PEACE, PEACE? You should really reflect upon this.

so?

what greeting has to do with submitting to Allah?

it is logical that when you enter any place most likely you will be greeted, but what is funny that you built the whole religion on greeting, this is the most funny concept I have ever heard bro lol

Quote
idolfree1 wrote
emotions come to remove us from the garden.

The wrong emotions only, there are plenty of right emotions even if heated

idolfree1 wrote
emotions take us out of the garden.

Not sure abot that, as I said we never entered the Garden yet and if we do enter it then no further testing and we will stay there regardless we have emotions or not

Come on bro, I don't get it, we have not been into the garden yet for our emotions to take us out of it

The "garden" and the "fire" are metaphors good brother, the story of the fall of adam(intellect) and his wife(imagination) happens every single day , all the time.

I need compelling verses from the Quran to support your concept otherwise it will stay flawed and hearsay, in my next comment I will show you how the Quran says that fire is not a metaphor

And if shaitan is in our emotions, then our nature can't be peaceful hey

Your nature is always PEACE, but most "fall" from that peace because they do not maintain programming(salaat) and bring forth zakaat (purification).

so anyone who maitains Salat will never listen to Shaitan?

it does not sum up bro

So they associate with the hidden thoughts(jinn) as if they were are ONE WITH the thoughts. For example, you walk in and catch your wife in bed with another man, the thought comes to you "Kill Him", and you dont realize that this thought is not you,

Oh yeh if it happens, I will want to kill him and kill her, then I will be happy to spend the rest of my life in Jail

it has been thrown into your sphere of awareness because it was sown into your spirit over and over and over and over and over again by TV, Radio, Movies, conversations, gosip, etc. So if you become ONE with this thought, you will carry it out thinking that you really THOUGHt this, you dont realize it was an emotional reflex that you did not ask for. We have the ability to reprogram our conditionings,

But there was no TV, Radio, Movies hundreds of years, would that mean the people then were far better than the people now?

we have the ability to remain at peace no matter what happens, but it takes serious work, not just a peaceful demeanor, thats the difference beween "muslim" and "Mumin".

lol , this is a contradiction bro, can you please tell me where this ability is com ing from and why we are not able to maitain the peace if it is in out ability to maintain it?

Also Muslim does not mean peace, it ONLY MEANS SUBMISSION TO ALLAH, in anonther comment I have a surprise to you, but who cares really, you , mquran, joe, and leyla when confronted with compelling verses you turn a blind eye, a simple solution by you guys, I hope you don't turn a blind eyes on the many verses I will show you later

Quote
idolfree1 wrote
How many times Ahmed will you lose to the snake? And how many times will everyone else be removed from the garden?

I never fought a snake to be honest, so I never lost to it, and we have not entered the Garden yet to be removed from it

Perhaps one day you will understand the metaphor. The God tells us to meditate and reflect, we should do so and we will learn so much about who we THINK we are.

So all your life is a metaphor?, well I want to see your reply to the vesres I will show you later that Hell can't be a metaphor lol

idolfree1 wrote
Thats teh problem, how will you ever grow spiritually when you cant control your responses?

Wow, i thought it is the other way around, you grow spirtitually which will lead to better control of our interactions, that is what make sense really, now I have to go back to the drawing board

You cant go anywhere until you maintain PEACE, which involves controllling your emotions. PEACE be upon you.

Come on bro, the quran inmany locations encourgaed us to fight and kill, where peace fits in the this contradiction?

idolfree1 wrote
You cant let your emotions dictate how you will respond brother.

Excuse me bro, what will dedicate me is who I'm in reality, you want to call it driven by emotions or driven by shaitan, fine, be my guest, but what you say has no proof whatsoever from the Quran that you say you submitted to it

Who "you" are in reality is what I am trying to help you understand."You" are NOT your emotions, yuor likes, dislikes, etc etc. You are pure consciousness. You are a peace that nothing can disturb. Nothing is against you. Do you understand this? The same "you" that was experiencing your likes and dislikes, your emotions, etc when you were 10 years old, is the same "You" that is experiencin them now. There is a part of you that changes and another part that NEVER changes. I am trying to get yuo t chane your identity to the part that NEVER changes, but you want me to give you verses that you cant understand while you associate with the changing part that is not really "you". So showing youverses will not help right now. That is why you have so man debates going on right now that go in circles and you come back asking the same questions.

ok

Bro, did you really submit to the Quran (God'a Laws) ?

Dont let that be your concern brother, because we would just go back to the same diascussions we have had a billion times. For example, I would have to ask you, which "quran" you are referring to,

the arabic Quran

then explain that he God's proclamation"quran" does not fit into one human book, etc etc.

what ? shock

lastly I would tell you that the book you are referring to says to trust in that which was descended to me and those before me, andthat the signs are from the horizons to within the spirit, so it is not lokced into a human book, even if this book is an excellent guide. So lets not take that road.

I donlt do it this way, YOU MUDST BRING THE VERSES TO SUPPORT YOUR ALLEGATIONS?

also you dodged my question, here it is again

did you really submit to the Quran (God'a Laws) ?

and if you didn't, then how you call yourself a muslim?

idolfree1 wrote
No brother, I am not interested in doing that, just trying to draw your attention to what is going on.

Good call mate, I applaude you for that we are bigger than this, if you feel insulted please let me know and I will deliver my personal appology in public, i always feel proud doing as such, why wait here it is, I'm sorry if I indirectly insulted you by calling you non muslim, but I was speaking logically anyway not emotionally, emotions can't drive me

Emotions cant drive you huh? That made me chuckle , respectfully bro We are all battling the emotions, that is our test, if you have full command, you probably dont need any guidance.

We are battleing shaitan, not emotions bro

Ahmed
You didn't even confirm that you felt insulted when I called you non muslim and you left others to assume it , can you please tell me if you were insulted so I appolgise to you?, so far it seems to me you didn't feel insulted

No, if emotions cant drive you as you stated above, then why argue?

Then emotions is part of us then and we can't ignore its effects, how can I ignore my emotions of loving someone?

Do you realize what happes to your physical body when you get emotional?

I careless about this bro, I also know when I sleep a lot of things happen to the body

The LIFE GIVING, PRECIOUS NURTURING BLOOD leaves the vital organs and goes into "fight or flight" mode. We can go more into detail about this, but when the doctor tells you that "stress leads to illness", it is because mankind cannot control thier emotions, in fact, many are ADDICTED to emotions!

ok

So if you get physically unhealthy every time you leave the state of PEACE, what is the benefit of it? To win a debate and be known as a tough debator?

To spread the truth from the Quran without misleading and confusing others

idolfree1 wrote
My statement is that peopel are not in control of thier emotions, the let thier emotions dictate what they say and do.

Ok, but do you think prophets can fully control their emotions?, I assummed that prophets are not metaphors and for real

the word "nabi" describes one who can INTUIT solutions/answers to the problems of life, as oppossed to learning externally. They are stil "men" like us undergoing a test. I am sure that they win the battle against the snake more than most of mankind.

So for the ones who always loose to the snakes, will they be punished on the Judgment day?

peace

[unknownuser]

Peace be upon you Ahmed,

Peace to you brother D

I dont want to fall under the wrath of the super debator D

[unknownuser]

Peace be upon you Ahmed,

Peace to you brother

I dont want to fall under the wrath of the super debator

Thank you bro for you detailed reply, however I believe what you said is false, wrong and misleading

I said I'm a tough debater not super

is tough means super in english?

also bro you know after we die we will be eaten by worms and turn to dust, do you think Allah will raise us again from the dead or that's it, finito?

peace

[unknownuser]

Peace be upon you Ahmed

Please return to normal breathing, I am done

PEACE.

[mquran]

Ahmed your concept will be demolished using the Quran

So far, Kyle's approach to al-quraan is renders a far more relevant understanding than Ahmed's. Kyle IS using al-quraan's principles, consciously or not, whereas Ahmed is relying on the linguistics of the Arab world, whose definition of as-salaat HE rejected himself. I don't know where his confidence comes from, really I don't.

sure as always ythe Haqq from the Quran will win over me and you, but I donlt twist the Quran verses, I take it exactly as it says

This is false. Ahmed rejects certain definitions like as-salaat.

I only soften my heart to any sensible concept like Joe theft punishment, but if I confront non sense then I have to do what I have to do

In other words, there's no room to grow. Whatever Ahmed sees at point
in time 'x', that's what he needs to respond to.

sorry bro, how do you know my nature?

25 years of reading al-quraan failed to tell him that deen is reflected in our essence and our deen is al-islaam, the attainment of peace.

[unknownuser]

Peace Kyle

Let?s start bro with the fire, you said it is a metaphor,

ie. you meant it will not exist for real,
ie. you denied its existence,
ie. you mean it is a lie,
ie. you are denying an important fact that A MUSLIM should 100% submit to while at the same time you are confusing your brothers/sisters by claiming to be A MUSLIM, let?s have a look at one locations of the zillions of location Allah told us about the hellfire

11- So woe on that day to those who reject (the truth),

12- Those who sport entering into vain discourses.

13- The day on which they shall be driven away to the fire of hell with violence.

14- This is the fire which you used to give the lie to.

15- Is it magic then or do you not see?

16- Enter into it, then bear (it) patiently, or do not bear (it) patiently, it is the same to you; you shall be requited only (for) what you did.

(11)
(12)
(13)
(14)
(15)
(16)

=> Verse 11, , this verse is telling us about that horrible things will happen to the ones who reject the truth ?So woe on that day to those who reject (the truth)?

=> Verse 12, those who rejected the truth were also described as ?Those who sport entering into vain discourses.?

=> Verse 13, Allah is telling us that those (Hell deniers) will be driven to the Hellfire ?The day on which they shall be driven away to the fire of hell with violence.?, how come Allah is telling us that some will be driven to something that you consider non existent?

=> Verse 14, Here Allah responding to your silly claim Kyle ?This is the fire which you used to give the lie to.", bro this is exactly what you stated, you gave a lie to the hellfire, you stated that it is a metaphor and does not exist, Allah is talking to you bro, if not enough for you to be convinced that Hell is real then continue reading

=> Verse 15, The hell deniers will be mocked here bro Is it magic then or do you not see?? , see, how they will be mocked in sarcasm by telling then IS IT MAGIC THEN OR DO YOU NOT SEE?, I guess this verse apply to you bro

=> Verse 16, now Hell becomes a final destination to those Hell rejecters, also, mocking continues ?Enter into it, then bear (it) patiently, or do not bear (it) patiently, it is the same to you; you shall be requited only (for) what you did.?

See bro it is all real and Allah never in the whole Quran told us that Hell is a similitude NEVER EVER, you want to make it up, then I warn you bro sincerely, you are committing a major sin in Islam and you should repent to your God and submit to Him and accept the Hellfire as 100% real that you will see it with your own eyes as I will as every one will on the Judgment day, the ones who will enter it are the ones who denied its existence for real as the above verses clearly told us, also bro I would like to warn you not to say non sense about Allah according to the following verses

Those who dispute concerning the revelations/signs of Allah without any authority that has reached them; greatly hated is it by Allah and by-those who believe. Thus does Allah set a seal over the heart of every proud, haughty one.

(35)

-> See bro, what you and others do (dispute concerning the revelations/signs of Allah without any authority that has reached you) must be hated by Allah and by the believers, so please don?t blame me that I hate what you do, because you have no authority whatsoever to spread all these wrong allegations about Allah and His Quran you donlt even speak Arabic for God sake, if you have an authority then please produce it to us, for my side I don?t have any authority but the authority of the Quran Arabic verses as clearly understood

3- And among men there is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge and follows every rebellious Shaitan;

4- Against him it is written down that whoever takes him for a friend, he shall lead him astray and conduct him to the chastisement of the burning fire.

(3)
(4)

Peace be with you Kyle

[unknownuser]

Ahmed your concept will be demolished using the Quran

So far, Kyle's approach to al-quraan is renders a far more relevant understanding than Ahmed's. Kyle IS using al-quraan's principles, consciously or not, whereas Ahmed is relying on the linguistics of the Arab world, whose definition of as-salaat HE rejected himself. I don't know where his confidence comes from, really I don't.

lol lol lol

rediculous as always been

sure as always ythe Haqq from the Quran will win over me and you, but I donlt twist the Quran verses, I take it exactly as it says

This is false. Ahmed rejects certain definitions like as-salaat.

YOU ARE A CLEAR CUT LIAR, never say anything that I have not said

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

this is my first and last warning to you

I only soften my heart to any sensible concept like Joe theft punishment, but if I confront non sense then I have to do what I have to do

In other words, there's no room to grow. Whatever Ahmed sees at point
in time 'x', that's what he needs to respond to.

I will leave you to grow with your ignorance and arrogance, I have no word with you any more, can you leave me ALONE IN PEACE AND NEVER TALK ABOUT ME PLEASE?

sorry bro, how do you know my nature?

25 years of reading al-quraan failed to tell him that deen is reflected in our essence and our deen is al-islaam, the attainment of peace.

lol lol

I have more verses to come to expose the ignorance of that claim that islam mean peace, but it will not be directed to you, it will be directed to the sincere Muslims who want to learn from the proper source

C U for good

[mquran]

Ahmedrediculous as always been

Using al-quraan to tafseer al-quraan is ridiculous? You prefer we use your friends and family ? No thanks.

YOU ARE A CLEAR CUT LIAR, never say anything that I have not said

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

this is my first and last warning to you

Oh ok, are you threatening me? Please say so clearly and bravely if you are. Tell me exactly what you plan to do if you don't mind.

And as for lying, here's essentially what I said, simplified for you

1. The Arab world overwhelmingly believes as-salaat to be the sunni 5 times ritual.
2. Ahmed REJECTS this notion
3. However, Ahmed has constantly talked about how Arabs used the word Nasaara to mean Christians and how we need to follow this.

Why follow it for 'nasaara' but not for 'as-salaat'. Double standards why? Come on, tell us.

I will leave you to grow with your ignorance and arrogance, I have no word with you any more, can you leave me ALONE IN PEACE AND NEVER TALK ABOUT ME PLEASE?

Ah, you mean like how you didn't talk about me in this following post

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=71138&highlight=ego%2A+mquran#71138

where you said his ego along with mquran is way too high that they insist of promoting the wrong understanding and sure others had followed them

So are you above YOUR OWN rules, Ahmed? Do you just tell people what to do (like in your nasaara fiasco) and just ignore the rule yourself (like your interpretation of as-salaat)?

I have more verses to come to expose the ignorance of that claim that islam mean peace, but it will not be directed to you, it will be directed to the sincere Muslims who want to learn from the proper source

If you post false interpretations here, you can be sure some person will post to show how al-quraan contradicts your sunni-influenced understanding. This is free-minds, not salafi.org

I don't know if its another 'typo' on your part or a comprehension problem, but I said al-islaam means 'THE ATTAINMENT of peace'. Just because we're speaking English, doesn't mean we can be careless.

[unknownuser]

Bugger off please

[mquran]

AhmedBugger off please

Thanks for using bad language.

[unknownuser]

Dear Brother Kyle

Here is a strong logic for you

You say fire is metaphor and does not exist

I say fire is for real and exist

You provided nothing to prove you claim

I provided compelling verses from the Quran that clearly says fire is not a metaphor; in fact I suggested to you that the verses are directed to you as well

If we speak logically and calculate our chances as both of us can't be right at the same time), we can comfortably say that I have more than 50% and you have less than 50%, because I provided evidences from the Quran and you provided NIL, NAUGHT, NOTHING, but your personal opinion

However, I'm happy to wave the bit of credit gained by the Quran verses and leave it at 5050 chance between the both of us, ie and logically speaking

Kyle has 50% chance that Hell is a metaphor and does not exist

Ahmed has 50% chance that hell exists for real and is not a metaphor

Let's analyse what will happen if your 50% chance will be the one to be true

Kyle is safe and will be classified as a smart boy by managing to understand this encrypted message in the Quran that Hell is a metaphor.
I'm not really sure if there will be any other reward my friend, I guess if Hell is a metaphor then the Garden you talk about is also a metaphor?, unless your concept considers only hell as a metaphor while considering the Garden a real thing lol

On the other hand Ahmed will be classified as dumb because he failed to understand the encrypted message in the Quran that Hell is a metaphor and does not exist for real
I?m not really sure bro if there will be any other punishment than calling me dumb, at least I know there will be no Hell to go to lol

Sounds fair and logic to you bro?

Now let?s analyse my 50% chance as the one to be true

Ahmed is most likely safe because he believed the Quran verses and submitted to it then conceded that Hell is for real as the clear Arabic verses said. For the reward, not really sure here because at that time I will only care about not entering that horrible and real place called Hell which I always believed it exists

On the other hand my brother, you gonna be in big trouble here according to the verses I posted which clearly mock the ones who denied the existence of Hell, they will be also driven to it with violence then they have to bear it regardless they are patient or not, it is going to be REAL NOT MAGIC, this is what the verses said not me

See bro, I?m playing it safer than you, and logically speaking, no emotions are involved in the above compelling logic

I hope you get the message bro and start fine tuning your Islam to Allah

Peace be with you mate

[unknownuser]

AhmedBugger off please

Thanks for using bad language.

lol

You are professional in twisting things, I have to admit

According to the Australian culture it is a bloody common word and is used every where even on TV, sorry, blame the culture, don't bloody blame me

opps, sorry, BLOODY is also a common word in the Australian culture,

Have you been to Australia before MATE?

Well, if you haven't, let me tell you, it is far better place than the States, I lived in both and I can judge with experience wink

[mquran]

According to the Australian culture it is a bloody common word and is used every where even on TV, sorry, blame the culture, don't bloody blame me

opps, sorry, BLOODY is also a common word in the Australian culture,

Maybe so, but lets see if b**gger OFFis taken so lightly.

Have you been to Australia before MATE?

I haven't.

Well, if you haven't, let me tell you, it is far better place than the States, I lived in both and I can judge with experience

Seems you can do a lot of things. I wonder why you haven't established an Islamic State in Australia yet.

[unknownuser]

Hi Ahmed Bahgat,

The Arabs Said We Believed?, you can see sister the tense is past in ?Said? and ?Believed?, i.e. they CONSIDERED themselves believers
?Say you didn?t believe? this is a very common sort of dialogue when others say they have done something properly and someone comes and tell them, sorry you didn?t do it right and this is how you should do it, very common indeed, the Quran is always talking like we talk, there is also an important note in here the word ?Lam? ?which is very known that it DOES NOT DENY THE VERB, to deny the verb it must be Lan, here is an example for Lan along with Lam

?Rather say we submitted to Allah?, the two words? MUST be translated to ?Rather?, it can?t be ?But? because there is a waw in front if the ?But which means it should be ?And but? and because this will not make sense in English it has to be Rather? the Arabic context to the two words combined I?m 100% positive about this. Ask some other Arabic speakers please, the WAW made a huge difference to the meaning, also I added (To Allah) as this is the main theme of the whole Quran which is to Submit to Allah

Next two phrases, Allah is actually linking both ?Iman? and ?Islam? toghther

and faith has not yet entered into your hearts?, this is an explanation to them why they should not consider themselves ?Amanau? and because it must be associated with submission to Allah, part of that submission to Allah is to obey Him and His prophet, we can also see how Allah linked the belief to the hearts, ie, belief is just a feeling that enters the heart and not an action that we do, while submitting IS AN ACTION THAT WE DO

and if you obey Allah and His Messenger?, here is what they should and as we can see it is an action to obey Allah and His prophet unlike the belief that only enters the heart

He will not diminish any of your deeds?, Amaal here must refer to an action which is our deeds by obey Allah and His prophet, yet we can not obey anyone with our freewill intact UNLESS our hearts believe in those firmly and in advance

Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. )

I think I have highlighted ur translation of the verse.

Its kind of confusing though.

The Arabs Said We Believed?
Say you didn?t believe?

Ok. So far makes sense.

?Rather say we submitted to Allah?

Now this is where it gets confusing. Coz when u translate it as ''rather say we submitted to Allah'', It comes to mean that Allah is telling Prophet Mohammed to tell the arabs, they havent believed yet but have only submitted.
This is what I am not sure about. coz how can someone submit without belief? submission would come with the utmost level of belief.

Now if this verse is translated as 'but u say, we have submitted' would mean the arabs claim to believe and submit, but in reality faith has not yet entered their hearts. (Which means that they are lying that they believe and have submitted to Allah).

and faith has not yet entered into your hearts?,
and if you obey Allah and His Messenger
He will not diminish any of your deeds
Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

This is clear. coz Allah is telling them, though faith has not entered their hearts yet, if they indeed do obey Allah and His messenger, Allah will consider the good deed and will forgive them for their mistakes of the past and be merciful towards them, for Allah is oft-forgiving and most merciful.

Peace!

[KGB]

I did not lived in Australia. I had general information which is based on reports and what I heard from my friends who are living there is that Australia is a country where there is very high rate of racial discremination social and relgiious hatred. America is still a place where racial discremination is at its lowest level. American people are very friendly and tolerant regardless of faith religion and color. Bush administration really do not refect the true America which I know and love. Australia is better than America is not true.

[unknownuser]

Hi idolfree1,

(4914) "al-aAArabu" say "We believe." Say "You do not believe, and but say 'We are men of peace' and the belief did not enter in your hearts/minds . And if you obey The God and His messenger He does not reduce/diminish you a thing from your deeds , that truly The God (is) forgiving, merciful."

Which word did u understand as 'men of peace'? Coz no one else mentioned it.

Sorry, you did ask for literal didn't you? oops
Men(and women) of peace is the implication of "muslimeen".

) yeah, I did. But u have translated as 'men of peace'' while everyone else seemed to have translated as ''submitted''
So, Does muslimeen mean ''submitted to Allah' or ''men of peace''?

Basically the verse is saying that there is a difference between a peaceful person and one who actively cultivates his spirit(nafs) by practicing universal disciplines.

This is teling us that the state of PEACE is the first step to greater things.if we cant even discuss without getting emotional (opposite of peace) we wont get anywhere.

Ok, this is all metaphorical interpretation, isnt it?
Insightful! Thanks for sharing ur understanding.

Thank you for accepting it graciously even if you dont agree 100% D

) No problems.
To be honest, I dont believe the whole Quran is metaphorical. I mean, I believe there are both literal and metaphorical explanations and messages in Quran. And this verse I believe, is related to arabs of that time and Prophet Mohammed is being told by Allah what he should tell them etc and how he should guide them etc. So, I believe it actually happened.

But ur complete metaphorical understanding did surprise me initially, but then now I realise, its harmless and infact, all u r promoting and calling for is peace, which actually is the true core and purpose of God's message, which many believers seem to miss completely, inspite of reading the very same Quran. So, I do appreciate the fact that u got the core of the message which is the main thing really. )

I believe, all the literal and metaphorical verses aim to convey us this very same message. That we should live in peace and righteously.

Only by attaining peace and by being righteous, we get closer to God. Thats truly what we need to work on.

Peace!

[unknownuser]

According to the Australian culture it is a bloody common word and is used every where even on TV, sorry, blame the culture, don't bloody blame me

opps, sorry, BLOODY is also a common word in the Australian culture,

Maybe so, but lets see if b**gger OFFis taken so lightly.

And let's see if your stupid and non stop accusations about me being a sunni cult follower will be taken lightly

As well, your lies about me that I reject part of what salat means, you have been exposed and I have no beaf with ya

Have you been to Australia before MATE?

I haven't.

You are welcome to visit it for sure, a great and blessed place on planet earth

Well, if you haven't, let me tell you, it is far better place than the States, I lived in both and I can judge with experience

Seems you can do a lot of things.

To be honest, it surprises me too, but I always had passion for a lot of things since I was a child and worked hard on it all my life to use my passion to learn, I haven't actually told you yet what I can do, there is a lengthy list to be honest wink

I wonder why you haven't established an Islamic State in Australia yet.

While I may be interested in politics but not the one I see now from politicians, I actually never thought of establishing an Islamic state as I don't believe in such non sense, the earth belong to Allah not to us and we are just living on it for very short time before each one of us is forced to give account, I have no ambtions in this life but to completely continuing to submit to Allah

[unknownuser]

Hi Ahmed Bahgat,

Hello Sister

The Arabs Said We Believed?, you can see sister the tense is past in ?Said? and ?Believed?, i.e. they CONSIDERED themselves believers
?Say you didn?t believe? this is a very common sort of dialogue when others say they have done something properly and someone comes and tell them, sorry you didn?t do it right and this is how you should do it, very common indeed, the Quran is always talking like we talk, there is also an important note in here the word ?Lam? ?which is very known that it DOES NOT DENY THE VERB, to deny the verb it must be Lan, here is an example for Lan along with Lam

?Rather say we submitted to Allah?, the two words? MUST be translated to ?Rather?, it can?t be ?But? because there is a waw in front if the ?But which means it should be ?And but? and because this will not make sense in English it has to be Rather? the Arabic context to the two words combined I?m 100% positive about this. Ask some other Arabic speakers please, the WAW made a huge difference to the meaning, also I added (To Allah) as this is the main theme of the whole Quran which is to Submit to Allah

Next two phrases, Allah is actually linking both ?Iman? and ?Islam? toghther

and faith has not yet entered into your hearts?, this is an explanation to them why they should not consider themselves ?Amanau? and because it must be associated with submission to Allah, part of that submission to Allah is to obey Him and His prophet, we can also see how Allah linked the belief to the hearts, ie, belief is just a feeling that enters the heart and not an action that we do, while submitting IS AN ACTION THAT WE DO

and if you obey Allah and His Messenger?, here is what they should and as we can see it is an action to obey Allah and His prophet unlike the belief that only enters the heart

He will not diminish any of your deeds?, Amaal here must refer to an action which is our deeds by obey Allah and His prophet, yet we can not obey anyone with our freewill intact UNLESS our hearts believe in those firmly and in advance

Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. )

I think I have highlighted ur translation of the verse.

Its kind of confusing though.

The Arabs Said We Believed?
Say you didn?t believe?

Ok. So far makes sense.

Ok

?Rather say we submitted to Allah?

Now this is where it gets confusing. Coz when u translate it as ''rather say we submitted to Allah'', It comes to mean that Allah is telling Prophet Mohammed to tell the arabs, they havent believed yet but have only submitted.

No sister, Allah is telling them THAT IT MORE PROPER TO SAY WE SUBMITTED, ie Allah it teaching the ignorant Arab that Submission is the objective not the believe alone, while the believers will still be rewarded the submitters will be far better recognised, I still have more verses to show regarding this subject which I will post later

This is what I am not sure about. coz how can someone submit without belief? submission would come with the utmost level of belief.

THAT IS WHAT I?m SATING EXACTLY, using the verb submitted in the past tense DOES NOT MEAN it was describing the action they already did and expressed it as belief, Allah is telling them about a totally different action which is submission

The Arabic use of words does not depend that mush on the tense used when Allah is the one talking, in many locations Allah used the past tense to describe future events, and in this case it is talking future for the Arabs to achieve submission status by using the past tense of submitting to stress that this is what should be the goal for us and we we do it we can proudly say we submitted

Now if this verse is translated as 'but u say, we have submitted' would mean the arabs claim to believe and submit, but in reality faith has not yet entered their hearts. (Which means that they are lying that they believe and have submitted to Allah).

The verse never inclined that they are lying, the verse is an encouragement to them and an explanation that the Goal should always be submitting, not believing alone

and faith has not yet entered into your hearts?,
and if you obey Allah and His Messenger
He will not diminish any of your deeds
Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

This is clear. coz Allah is telling them, though faith has not entered their hearts yet, if they indeed do obey Allah and His messenger,

yep but obeying Allah and His messenger has nothing to do with belief, it is only when we submit that is why it was mentioned after Allah told them that they make their goal to submit NOT to believe only, clearly submitting will make us obey Allah and his prophet as in actions like we should do this and we should not do that

Allah will consider the good deed and will forgive them for their mistakes of the past and be merciful towards them, for Allah is oft-forgiving and most merciful.

Peace!

Yep and I believe the message in the verse is more that Allah will judge the true submitters with ease and forgiveness will be given to them in loads regarding their sins

Peace

[unknownuser]

I did not lived in Australia. I had general information which is based on reports and what I heard from my friends who are living there is that Australia is a country where there is very high rate of racial discremination social and relgiious hatred. America is still a place where racial discremination is at its lowest level. American people are very friendly and tolerant regardless of faith religion and color. Bush administration really do not refect the true America which I know and love. Australia is better than America is not true.

ok but what you just said was hearsay

I didn't say hearsay

possibly because I lived in NY?

I guess so

but I also mean the people attitude

there is no racial dicrimination in Australia

the last incident between some lebanese gangs and some aussie gangs was dust in thin air the first of a kind in australia, both are facing courts now and crying like girls, their news everyday are in the papers, most are 17 to 19 years old, a bunch of low life teens

There is no place on earth like Australia mate, it is the paradise of Allah on earth

and please don't open the subject of race in america as I have a lot to say regarding the amercian racism but I don;t feel like doing it in here

peace

[unknownuser]

Peace to all

In the followings lots of Quranic evidences we will see clearly that this concept of Islam means Peace is Flawed and can?t stand any sense, We will see that when The Quran wanted to talk peace or greeting the context clearly confirm as such, we will also see a clear evidence that this root methods of using the root ?S L M? to interpret the meaning of the Islam in a way that contradict many verses in the Quran, if Islam means Submission, there will be no contradiction nor confusion in the Quran, and finally we will see that Islam is the most desired level for Believers to achieve i.e., Muslim is a higher Level than Mumin, i.e. you can?t be a Muslim without being a Mumin

68- O My servants! there is no fear for you this day, nor shall you grieve.

69- (Being) those who have believed in Our Signs and bowed (their wills to Ours) in Islam (Submission).

70- Enter the garden, you and your wives; you shall be made happy.

(6
(69)
(70)

-> The verses above describe what will happen to the outright winners on the Judgment Day we can read clearly in 4369 the Arabic words ? ?, which clearly means ?Those who BELIVED in our signs and was submitters?, therefore they needed to believe in the signs and they were also submitters, some may say, ok but ?Muslimeen? may mean ?they needed to be peaceful?.

Fine, even if I will assume that for now, then this contradict their understanding that you don?t need to be Mumin to be a Muslim as in 4369 we read that Iman is also a requirement

When the Quran is talking peace however, the context is clear that it is about peace

Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost for Allah is with you, and will never put you in loss for your deeds.

(35)

-> See, the word used was ? ? which means ?Peace?, accompanied with a warning NOT to be ?weary and faint-hearted, crying for PEACE,, because ? ye should be uppermost for Allah is with you, and will never put you in loss for your deeds.?, this verse should refute those Muslims who promote giving unconditional peace to our enemy, as well it should refute those who say Islam means Peace because we are encouraged NOT to seek peace with our enemy as shown in the verse, but I agree that to be peaceful is part of Islam but only with the peaceful ones

And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

(61)

-> Very clear context in addition to the clear Arabic word that means peace ? ?, ?Peace?, the verse should also refute those who say a Muslim should be peaceful with anyone including the enemy, we are only ordered to incline to peace IF they incline to peace, they are the perpetrators anyway who started attacking us., makes great sense to me indeed.

The surprise I have for those Root Method promoters, is this, the Quran used the same Arabic word, ? ? in another verse that meant ?Ladder?, me as a native Arabic speaker knows that ladder is commonly known as ? ? in the Arabic world

And if their turning away is hard on you, then if you can seek a tunnel into the earth or a ladder (to ascend up) to heaven so that you should bring them a sign and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have gathered them all on guidance, therefore be not of the ignorant.

(35)

-> Here we go, the Quran has spoken again to refute those who promote this flawed root method, the Arabic word ? ? has the same exact letters of the root ? S L M?. This commonly known Arabic word for ?Ladder? is even closer to the Root ?S L M? than ?Islam?, how they are going to translate 635?, I would love to see their reply, I guess they might come and say the Arabic word for ladder is not commonly known as ? ? but ? ?, without the Alif in the end

Well, the Quran used it exactly as they may suggest, we read in another location

Or have they a ladder, by which they can (climb up to heaven and) listen (to its secrets)? Then let (such a) listener of theirs produce a manifest proof.

(3

-> What can I say brothers and sisters? The Quran always leave me speechless, I guess it should do the same to the true submitters

If the above is not enough to refute the supporters of the flawed root method then here is another surprise to you, I also know as a native Arabic speaker that ?? ALSO MEANS ?To deliver?, THIS IS VERY COMMON IN THE ARBIC WORLD, the Quran also used it as such in one location, it was translated as ?Paid? though, which I believe is the wrong translation and should be ?Delivered?

Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due) If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running by way of repentance to Allah for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom.

(92)

I guess the root method promoters need to explain to us how Peace can fit in 635, 5238 and 292?
And finally we read in another verse that when the Quran is read to the TRUE BELIVERS, they will submit to Allah

Nor can you lead away the blind out of their error. You cannot make to hear any but those who believe in Our revelations/signs so they shall submit.

(53)

-> Very clear brothers and sisters ? but those who believe in Our revelations/signs so they shall submit.?

The same exact message was repeated letter by letter in another location

Nor can you lead away the blind out of their error. You cannot make to hear any but those who believe in Our revelations/signs so they shall submit.

(81)

I rest my case for good

Alhamdullelah

Peace to All