Prophet Mohammed

unknownuser

say it to yourslef PAL

Why would I ? I take discussion very seriously. But you've admitted its FUN to you.

Far out bro, I went and had dinner and you still blah blah

ok fine here is what I have to say

Blah, Blah

Are you calling me unsincere?, you better watch out or I will inform the Moderators pal

No , no, of course not. How can I call you unsincere when there's no such word as UNsincere. It's INsincere. And sure go ahead.

mate, thanks for the english tip, but that was a typo, and if you look at your keyboard you will see the U is next to the I, lol

I donlt give a fluke on what you think because you admitted you are wrong and I know you are mostely wrong, arrogant and ignornat, so live it Mquran, but please stop the headche you are giving to almost everyone here, this is not Quranic mate

Almost everyone? Are you teleempathic Ahmed?

so far what I saw from you is jumping in your wagen and driving over the speed limit for every bloody thread "Almost"

Haha, keep up the good work, you will discredit yourself by your own hands, remember that Ahmed told you that

Well, 'ahmed' can't seem to tell us what people who say 'aslamna' should be called. This is because Ahmed knows that Ahmed's theory will fall like a house of cards.

your question is silly

you have to tell me first whom this people will Aslamu to?, then I will have further questions before I answer your silly, very bad preseneted and confusing question

now who is RK? i only know someone called "Dajjal RK" would that be the one you are talking about?

Yup, the very same. RK and you do the exact same thing.[ Instead of listening to al-quraan, you both interject your own preconcieved ideas into it. No wonder both your understandings contradict al-quraan.

Mquran, you are crazy, and I don't want to talk to you anymore, the best way to treat you is to ignore you and that is what you deserve Pal, now let's see if you can do it and ignore me as I will ignore you

now to describe me as RK is a sin committed by you and Allah allows me to respond to the likes of ya in public, therefore and based on the evidences for me you are nothing but a confused muslim like Mirza Ghulam Ahmad lol do you know him Pal?, hey you don't need to answer as I will agnore you after this comment then will try to forget everything I knew about you, you will be history for me Mquran in about 5 minutes from now

closck is tickking

tick, tick

and you need to stop your jealous and hatred to the arabs, I knw you know that an arab child in primary school will understand the Quran better than you ever will in your entire life, because they have been taught The lirary Arabic "The same structure of the Quran", as well and simply because you will never master Arabic, whatever you do, it will never happen, remember Ahmed also told you that mate

You said this to Joe yourself, remember? You looked down on him for not being an Arab. That makes you a racist. I wonder why you live in a non-arab speaking country where you have to speak a kufar language? You should go live with the Bedouins as they speak the purest Arabic. Not mixing up their 'j's' with thier 'g's.

Tick, Tick

And if by mastering Arabic, you mean 'understanding the quran as a history book which no one can apply in my time', then thanks for excluding me. You've proven your double standards with the thread on as-salaat. You only take normative meanings if it suits you. When it DOESN'T suit you, you're happy to hide behind normative Arab use.

Tick Tick

rrrring

sorry Mquran, your time is out

c u

unknownuser

Another unfounded, misleading and false comment by you Mquran

it was not 30 years, I said it was 25 years only, it seems you have a very weak memory mate or was it a deliberate lie?

Oh sorry, was 30 years your chess-playing exploits? I keep confusing them for all the decades of experience you have.

sorry mquran, I decided to respond to this comment by you , see I will always reserve my right to reply to you and ommit the ignore law in my book

yet again this is another misleading, unfounded and falst statement by you Mquran

I said my chess experience is 31 years not 30 years, now I'm sure you suffer from memory loss

try relaxing mate, don't think too much, there are people who are qualified to do that intense task but it seems you are not one of them

mquran

you have to tell me first whom this people will Aslamu to?, then I will have further questions before I answer your silly, very bad preseneted and confusing question

They're hardly going to aslamu to the Queen of England, are they? They will aslamu to the same authority they said 'amanna' to. Read the verse again.

mquran

I said my chess experience is 31 years not 30 years, now I'm sure you suffer from memory loss

try relaxing mate, don't think too much, there are people who are qualified to do that intense task but it seems you are not one of them

I didn't expect you to keep quiet anyway, don't worry. Is it 31 years ?ok, i'll try to get it straight for next time. Have you beaten Kasparov yet ?

unknownuser

you have to tell me first whom this people will Aslamu to?, then I will have further questions before I answer your silly, very bad preseneted and confusing question

They're hardly going to aslamu to the Queen of England, are they? They will aslamu to the same authority they said 'amanna' to. Read the verse again.

so you can't ignore me?

possibly because I asked you a question?

ok here is another question, is it amanna or aslamna?

now you said "to an authority", therefore I would like to know who is that authority before I can answer your silly question

unknownuser

I said my chess experience is 31 years not 30 years, now I'm sure you suffer from memory loss

try relaxing mate, don't think too much, there are people who are qualified to do that intense task but it seems you are not one of them

I didn't expect you to keep quiet anyway, don't worry. Is it 31 years ?ok, i'll try to get it straight for next time. Have you beaten Kasparov yet ?

Good, but you should be happy as I'm telling you that if you will not ignore me then EVERYTHING you say must be accurate "at least to the common sense" and I mean Everything as well I mean the common sense not your sense neither mine

Regarding kasparov, are you kiddin Mquran?, he is the world champion bro, but I'm not sure which country he came from, his name sounds a bit Egyptian to me lol

Elena

Peace,

Are you calling me unsincere?

No , no, of course not. How can I call you unsincere when there's no such word as UNsincere. It's INsincere.

even if that wasn't a typo, you shouldn't be surprised by the use of that prefix by a non-native English speaker since both in- and un-prefixes mean the same not, opposite.

unknownuser

Peace,

Are you calling me unsincere?

No , no, of course not. How can I call you unsincere when there's no such word as UNsincere. It's INsincere.

even if that wasn't a typo, you shouldn't be surprised by the use of that prefix by a non-native English speaker since both in- and un-prefixes mean the same not, opposite.

Thank you sister

peace be with you

unknownuser

Hi Leyla,

Though I did my studies and still do I am definitely no infallible authority when it comes to the language of the qur'?n and (like everyone else) I will probably never be.

When it comes to 49/14, some things still need to be cleared out and studied by me with more engagement, especially the real relevance and use of the term al 'a*rab? (supposedly the beduins?, the desert Arabs?, the Arabs? according to some) within the qur`?n was not studied enough by me yet.
I don?t want to give a judgement here.

So, if I would try to present a word to word translation of this whole verse to you here it would be dishonest and not right. I can not do that for you in the case of this verse.
What is clear to me is that according to what I know already the verse definitely proves that one can be muslim without im?n and that Ahmed?s explanation does not suit.
This I can say with pretty sure confidence!

I appreciate ur humility and honesty.

Instead of trying a word for word translation I will quote four different translations that disagree with the translation that you quoted.
I will quote Shakir, Pikthall, Khalifa and Free Minds.

Ok. Lets look into each.

Shakir
The dwellers of the desert say We believe. Say You do not believe but say, We submit; and faith has not yet entered into your hearts; and if you obey Allah and His Apostle, He will not diminish aught of your deeds; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

This translation says, the arabs say 'we believe'. The prophet is asked to tell them 'u do not believe. but u say we submit. (in reality) faith has not entered ur hearts................''

So, I feel it means, the arabs claim to be believers but are not.

Pikthall
The wandering Arabs say We believe. Say (unto them, O Muhammad) Ye believe not, but rather say "We submit," for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts. Yet, if ye obey Allah and His messenger, He will not withhold from you aught of (the reward of) your deeds. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Now this one has a new word 'rather' which can change the meaning. I wish to know if the arabic word for 'rather' is present in the verse itself.

Khalifa
The Arabs said, "We are Mu'mens (believers)." Say, "You have not believed; what you should say is, `We are Muslims (submitters),' until belief is established in your hearts." If you obey GOD and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

Now this one has ''what u should say''. Are these words there in the arabic verse?

Free Minds
The Nomads said "We believe." Say "You have not believed; but you should Say 'We have surrendered', for belief has not yet entered into your hearts." If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Merciful.

Now this one has ''but u should say''. R these words there in the arabic verse?

The problem is Leyla, translators have a way of putting their understanding into the verse, instead of translating it word to word.

Thats why I asked for a word to word translation, (with all possible meanings of a word if any word has multiple meanings) of the verse, so that we can understand for ourself.

Peace!

unknownuser

Hi Ahmed Bahgat and all,

Can anyone provide an exact word to word translation of the following verse?

al-Hujurat 049014

Qalati al-aAArabu amanna qul lam tu/minoo walakin qooloo aslamna walamma yadkhuli al-eemanu fee quloobikum wa-in tuteeAAoo Allaha warasoolahu la yalitkum min aAAmalikum shay-an inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun

Peace!

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Ahmed,

See, any religious discussions most likely will heat up, i don't know why, possibly it is a human nature, every religious discussion I have with my father on the phone, MUST heat up somehow

It MUST? Hopefully you will not take it lightly and sit and reflect as to WHY it MUST, cause the truth is it does not have to, at least on your end.

Peace is our nature, emotions come to remove us from the garden. How many times Ahmed will you lose to the snake? And how many times will everyone else be removed from the garden?

Ahmed, forget what anyone else has said to you and all that, just look at yourself in this thread. Look how many times you have insulted another. No matter what a person says to you, you are in control of your responses, if not, you are a slave to emotion.

mquran

Elena even if that wasn't a typo, you shouldn't be surprised by the use of that prefix by a non-native English speaker since both in- and un-prefixes mean the same not, opposite.

I'm not surprised nor does it bother me. I'm trying to show Ahmed that his obsession with the hegemony of the Arabic language is misguided. I couldn't care less if its unsincere or insincere or sans-sincere.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you PM,

I cannot give you what you are requesting, but here is an atempt.

(4914) "al-aAArabu" say "We believe." Say "You do not believe, and but say 'We are men of peace' and the belief did not enter in your hearts/minds . And if you obey The God and His messenger He does not reduce/diminish you a thing from your deeds , that truly The God (is) forgiving, merciful."

"al aAAeabu" in my opinion is not speaking about "arabs", so I have left it untranslated.

Basically the verse is saying that there is a difference between a peaceful person and one who actively cultivates his spirit(nafs) by practicing universal disciplines.

This is teling us that the state of PEACE is the first step to greater things.if we cant even discuss without getting emotional (opposite of peace) we wont get anywhere.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Ahmed,

See, any religious discussions most likely will heat up, i don't know why, possibly it is a human nature, every religious discussion I have with my father on the phone, MUST heat up somehow

It MUST? Hopefully you will not take it lightly and sit and reflect as to WHY it MUST, cause the truth is it does not have to, at least on your end.

Peace be with you bro

I'm not talking about myself alone, I'm talking about the majority of religious discussions, I just used myself as an example, but I agree I'm one of those who is damn hard to religiously debate

Peace is our nature,

Of course I agree with that, that is why our un peacful acts are encouraged by another entity called "shaitan"

emotions come to remove us from the garden.

The wrong emotions only, there are plenty of rigt emotions even if heated

How many times Ahmed will you lose to the snake? And how many times will everyone else be removed from the garden?

I never fought a snake to be honest, so I never lost to it, and we have not entered the Garden yet to be removed from it

Ahmed, forget what anyone else has said to you and all that

How come?, of course I can't forget what people say to me

, just look at yourself in this thread. Look how many times you have insulted another.

Really?, why not putting all my insults in one comment and I will walk you through it and see if you are right?

You didn't even confirm that you felt insulted when I called you non muslim and you left others to assume it , can you please tell me if you were insulted so I appolgise to you?, so far it seems to me you didn't feel insulted

No matter what a person says to you, you are in control of your responses, if not, you are a slave to emotion.

Of course I'm, and I belive everyone is, can you give me an example "not yourself" that some people don't give a fluke about their emotions

peace

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Ahmed,

I'm not talking about myself alone, I'm talking about the majority of religious discussions, I just used myself as an example, but I agree I'm one of those who is damn hard to religiously debate

I dont understand what you mean when you say "I am one who is hard to debate"?? Can you elaborate? I thought that topic were debated, not people.

idolfree1 wrote
Peace is our nature,

Of course I agree with that, that is why our un peacful acts are encouraged by another entity called "shaitan"

just make sure you realize that "shaitan" is within man, not some being out there somewhere tha we can lay blame on.

idolfree1 wrote
emotions come to remove us from the garden.

The wrong emotions only, there are plenty of rigt emotions even if heated

ALL emotions take us out of the garden. There is NO emotion that should lead us, emotions are our servants. If you disagree, give me a good emotion and I will elaborate.

idolfree1 wrote
How many times Ahmed will you lose to the snake? And how many times will everyone else be removed from the garden?

I never fought a snake to be honest, so I never lost to it, and we have not entered the Garden yet to be removed from it

Depends on how you understand the metaphor.

idolfree1 wrote
Ahmed, forget what anyone else has said to you and all that

How come?, of course I can't forget what people say to me

Thats teh problem, how will you ever grow spiritually when you cant control your responses? You cant let your emotions dictate how you will respond brother.

idolfree1 wrote
, just look at yourself in this thread. Look how many times you have insulted another.

Really?, why not putting all my insults in one comment and I will walk you through it and see if you are right?

No brother, I am not interested in doing that, just trying to draw your attention to what is going on.

You didn't even confirm that you felt insulted when I called you non muslim and you left others to assume it , can you please tell me if you were insulted so I appolgise to you?, so far it seems to me you didn't feel insulted

Respected brother, should I require someone to say the words "I'm sorry" for me to then transcend my emotions? D What is the magical power in those words? The things you stated about me affected the animal within me, but I am in control of my animal (I strive to be). So it really does not matter if you insulted me or not, what matters is how I respond to that, and my response to you was PEACE. What better response than that? D

idolfree1 wrote
No matter what a person says to you, you are in control of your responses, if not, you are a slave to emotion.

Of course I'm, and I belive everyone is

If you cant talk to your fatehr about religion or people on this forum without arguing, how can you say you are in control of your emotions?

can you give me an example "not yourself" that some people don't give a fluke about their emotions

My statement is that peopel are not in control of thier emotions, the let thier emotions dictate what they say and do.

unknownuser

Hi Ahmed Bahgat and all,

Can anyone provide an exact word to word translation of the following verse?

al-Hujurat 049014

Qalati al-aAArabu amanna qul lam tu/minoo walakin qooloo aslamna walamma yadkhuli al-eemanu fee quloobikum wa-in tuteeAAoo Allaha warasoolahu la yalitkum min aAAmalikum shay-an inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun

Peace!

Peace PM

(14)

-> ? ? ?Qalati al-aAArabu amanna?, ->>> ?The Arabs Said We Believed?, you can see sister the tense is past in ?Said? and ?Believed?, i.e. they CONSIDERED themselves believers

-> ? ? , ->>> ?Say you didn?t believe?, this is a very common sort of dialogue when others say they have done something properly and someone comes and tell them, sorry you didn?t do it right and this is how you should do it, very common indeed, the Quran is always talking like we talk, there is also an important note in here the word ?Lam? ? ? which is very known that it DOES NOT DENY THE VERB, to deny the verb it must be ?Lan? ? ?, here is an example for ?Lan? along with ?Lam?

?But if you do (it) not and never shall you do (it), then be on your guard against the fire of which men and stones are the fuel; it is prepared for the unbelievers.?

(24)

-> This verse is about the Quran challenge to make a sura like it, we can see the verse says ? ?, which means they are taking on the challenge BUT THEY KEEP FAILING, then Allah told us that THEY WILL NEVER DO IT, using the ?Lan? to deny the verb, ? ?, ie the ?Lan? will make the verb impossible to happen (to create a sura like it), while the ?Lam? meant they are trying but they keep failing

-> ? ? ?walakin qooloo aslamna?, ->>> ?Rather say we submitted to Allah?, the two words ? ? MUST be translated to ?Rather?, it can?t be ?But? because there is a waw in front if the ?But? which means it should be ?And but? and because this will not make sense in English it has to be ?Rather? the Arabic context to the two words combined ? ? , I?m 100% positive about this. Ask some other Arabic speakers please, the WAW made a huge difference to the meaning, also I added (To Allah) as this is the main theme of the whole Quran which is to Submit to Allah

Next two phrases, Allah is actually linking both ?Iman? and ?Islam? toghther

-> ? ? ? walamma yadkhuli al-eemanu fee quloobikum?, ->>> ? and faith has not yet entered into your hearts?, this is an explanation to them why they should not consider themselves ?Amanau? and because it must be associated with submission to Allah, part of that submission to Allah is to obey Him and His prophet, we can also see how Allah linked the belief to the hearts, ie, belief is just a feeling that enters the heart and not an action that we do, while submitting IS AN ACTION THAT WE DO

-> ? ? ? wa-in tuteeAAoo Allaha warasoolahu?, ->>> ? and if you obey Allah and His Messenger?, here is what they should and as we can see it is an action to obey Allah and His prophet unlike the belief that only enters the heart

-> ? ? ? la yalitkum min aAAmalikum shay-an?, ->>> ? He will not diminish any of your deeds?, Amaal here must refer to an action which is our deeds by obey Allah and His prophet, yet we can not obey anyone with our freewill intact UNLESS our hearts believe in those firmly and in advance

-> ? ? ? an inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun?, ->>> ? Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?

Allah knows best

Peace

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Ahmed,

Peace be with you man

I'm not talking about myself alone, I'm talking about the majority of religious discussions, I just used myself as an example, but I agree I'm one of those who is damn hard to religiously debate

I dont understand what you mean when you say "I am one who is hard to debate"?? Can you elaborate? I thought that topic were debated, not people.

Bro this is simple, I'm a tough debater, ie, if I believe hard in something and I have compelling evidences to defend it, I will never let go until I run out of evidences or logics

idolfree1 wrote
Peace is our nature,

Of course I agree with that, that is why our un peacful acts are encouraged by another entity called "shaitan"

just make sure you realize that "shaitan" is within man, not some being out there somewhere tha we can lay blame on.

Excuse me bro, did I blame the shaitan?, no i didn't, so don't change my words into another concept please

your concept is flawed and contradictory

you said Peace is our nature

then you said that "shaitan" is within man

How this can possibly happen bro?, it makes no sense to me

idolfree1 wrote
emotions come to remove us from the garden.

The wrong emotions only, there are plenty of rigt emotions even if heated

emotions take us out of the garden.

Come on bro, I don't get it, we have not been into the garden yet for our emotions to take us out of it

And if shaitan is in our emotions, then our nature can't be peaceful hey lol

There is NO emotion that should lead us, emotions are our servants. If you disagree, give me a good emotion and I will elaborate.

No bro, I have no examples, I want you please to list all possible emotions and the elaboration next to it if you can, I assumed your concept is complete therefore I assumed it covers all emotions?

idolfree1 wrote
How many times Ahmed will you lose to the snake? And how many times will everyone else be removed from the garden?

I never fought a snake to be honest, so I never lost to it, and we have not entered the Garden yet to be removed from it

Depends on how you understand the metaphor.

Sounds like Bible material to me

idolfree1 wrote
Ahmed, forget what anyone else has said to you and all that

How come?, of course I can't forget what people say to me

Thats teh problem, how will you ever grow spiritually when you cant control your responses?

Wow, i thought it is the other way around, you grow spirtitually which will lead to better control of our interactions, that is what make sense really, now I have to go back to the drawing board cry

You cant let your emotions dictate how you will respond brother.

Excuse me bro, what will dedicate me is who I'm in reality, you want to call it driven by emotions or driven by shaitan, fine, be my guest, but what you say has no proof whatsoever from the Quran that you say you submitted to it

Bro, did you really submit to the Quran (God'a Laws) ?

idolfree1 wrote
, just look at yourself in this thread. Look how many times you have insulted another.

Really?, why not putting all my insults in one comment and I will walk you through it and see if you are right?

No brother, I am not interested in doing that, just trying to draw your attention to what is going on.

Good call mate, I applaude you for that we are bigger than this, if you feel insulted please let me know and I will deliver my personal appology in public, i always feel proud doing as such, why wait here it is, I'm sorry if I indirectly insulted you by calling you non muslim, but I was speaking logically anyway not emotionally, emotions can't drive me

You didn't even confirm that you felt insulted when I called you non muslim and you left others to assume it , can you please tell me if you were insulted so I appolgise to you?, so far it seems to me you didn't feel insulted

Respected brother, should I require someone to say the words "I'm sorry" for me to then transcend my emotions? D What is the magical power in those words? The things you stated about me affected the animal within me, but I am in control of my animal (I strive to be). So it really does not matter if you insulted me or not, what matters is how I respond to that, and my response to you was PEACE. What better response than that? D

I already apologised bro and i hope you accept it sincerely

idolfree1 wrote
No matter what a person says to you, you are in control of your responses, if not, you are a slave to emotion.

Of course I'm, and I belive everyone is

If you cant talk to your fatehr about religion or people on this forum without arguing, how can you say you are in control of your emotions?

Well, if your father is a clear cut sunni sect follower, thes what I said makes great sense and sensible, LOL

can you give me an example "not yourself" that some people don't give a fluke about their emotions

My statement is that peopel are not in control of thier emotions, the let thier emotions dictate what they say and do.

Ok, but do you think prophets can fully control their emotions?, I assummed that prophets are not metaphors and for real

peace be with you mate

unknownuser

Hi idolfree1,

I cannot give you what you are requesting, but here is an atempt.

Thank you. )

(4914) "al-aAArabu" say "We believe." Say "You do not believe, and but say 'We are men of peace' and the belief did not enter in your hearts/minds . And if you obey The God and His messenger He does not reduce/diminish you a thing from your deeds , that truly The God (is) forgiving, merciful."

Which word did u understand as 'men of peace'? Coz no one else mentioned it.

"al aAAeabu" in my opinion is not speaking about "arabs", so I have left it untranslated.

Ok.

Basically the verse is saying that there is a difference between a peaceful person and one who actively cultivates his spirit(nafs) by practicing universal disciplines.

This is teling us that the state of PEACE is the first step to greater things.if we cant even discuss without getting emotional (opposite of peace) we wont get anywhere.

Ok, this is all metaphorical interpretation, isnt it?
Insightful! Thanks for sharing ur understanding.

Peace!

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Ahmed,

idolfree1 wrote
I dont understand what you mean when you say "I am one who is hard to debate"?? Can you elaborate? I thought that topic were debated, not people.

Bro this is simple, I'm a tough debater, ie, if I believe hard in something and I have compelling evidences to defend it, I will never let go until I run out of evidences or logics

Ok, I just think that it is an error to look upon youself as a tough debater, to me that sounds like stubborn. It sounds like someone who just wants to win his point, not obtain truth. A tough debator sounds like they wil have trouble softening thier heart to recieve better info.

idolfree1 wrote
just make sure you realize that "shaitan" is within man, not some being out there somewhere tha we can lay blame on.

Excuse me bro, did I blame the shaitan?, no i didn't, so don't change my words into another concept please

I guess the tough debator in you was unable to see that I did not say you blamed shaitaan. I said "that WE can lay blame on", not "YOU". D

your concept is flawed and contradictory

you said Peace is our nature

then you said that "shaitan" is within man

How this can possibly happen bro?, it makes no sense to me

Peace is your nature, emotions are the servants which allow us to DO THINGS in the world. We are NOT our emotions. Unfortunately, many are controlled by thier emotions. Yes, shaitan is within man, it "whispers" to you to do this and that, but we dont have to respond to those whispers, we can remain at peace. Do you realize that we greet PEACE be upon you? ANd that the greeting of the garden is PEACE, PEACE? You should really reflect upon this.

Quote
idolfree1 wrote
emotions come to remove us from the garden.

The wrong emotions only, there are plenty of rigt emotions even if heated

idolfree1 wrote
emotions take us out of the garden.

Come on bro, I don't get it, we have not been into the garden yet for our emotions to take us out of it

The "garden" and the "fire" are metaphors good brother, the story of the fall of adam(intellect) and his wife(imagination) happens every single day , all the time.

And if shaitan is in our emotions, then our nature can't be peaceful hey

Your nature is always PEACE, but most "fall" from that peace because they do not maintain programming(salaat) and bring forth zakaat (purification). So they associate with the hidden thoughts(jinn) as if they were are ONE WITH the thoughts. For example, you walk in and catch your wife in bed with another man, the thought comes to you "Kill Him", and you dont realize that this thought is not you, it has been thrown into your sphere of awareness because it was sown into your spirit over and over and over and over and over again by TV, Radio, Movies, conversations, gosip, etc. So if you become ONE with this thought, you will carry it out thinking that you really THOUGHt this, you dont realize it was an emotional reflex that you did not ask for. We have the ability to reprogram our conditionings, we have the ability to remain at peace no matter what happens, but it takes serious work, not just a peaceful demeanor, thats the difference beween "muslim" and "Mumin".

idolfree1 wrote
There is NO emotion that should lead us, emotions are our servants. If you disagree, give me a good emotion and I will elaborate.

No bro, I have no examples

OK

Quote
idolfree1 wrote
How many times Ahmed will you lose to the snake? And how many times will everyone else be removed from the garden?

I never fought a snake to be honest, so I never lost to it, and we have not entered the Garden yet to be removed from it

Perhaps one day you will understand the metaphor. The God tells us to meditate and reflect, we should do so and we will learn so much about who we THINK we are.

idolfree1 wrote
Depends on how you understand the metaphor.

Sounds like Bible material to me

Ok

idolfree1 wrote
Thats teh problem, how will you ever grow spiritually when you cant control your responses?

Wow, i thought it is the other way around, you grow spirtitually which will lead to better control of our interactions, that is what make sense really, now I have to go back to the drawing board

You cant go anywhere until you maintain PEACE, which involves controllling your emotions. PEACE be upon you.

idolfree1 wrote
You cant let your emotions dictate how you will respond brother.

Excuse me bro, what will dedicate me is who I'm in reality, you want to call it driven by emotions or driven by shaitan, fine, be my guest, but what you say has no proof whatsoever from the Quran that you say you submitted to it

Who "you" are in reality is what I am trying to help you understand."You" are NOT your emotions, yuor likes, dislikes, etc etc. You are pure consciousness. You are a peace that nothing can disturb. Nothing is against you. Do you understand this? The same "you" that was experiencing your likes and dislikes, your emotions, etc when you were 10 years old, is the same "You" that is experiencin them now. There is a part of you that changes and another part that NEVER changes. I am trying to get yuo t chane your identity to the part that NEVER changes, but you want me to give you verses that you cant understand while you associate with the changing part that is not really "you". So showing youverses will not help right now. That is why you have so man debates going on right now that go in circles and you come back asking the same questions.

Bro, did you really submit to the Quran (God'a Laws) ?

Dont let that be your concern brother, because we would just go back to the same diascussions we have had a billion times. For example, I would have to ask you, which "quran" you are referring to, then explain that he God's proclamation"quran" does not fit into one human book, etc etc. lastly I would tell you that the book you are referring to says to trust in that which was descended to me and those before me, andthat the signs are from the horizons to within the spirit, so it is not lokced into a human book, even if this book is an excellent guide. So lets not take that road.

idolfree1 wrote
No brother, I am not interested in doing that, just trying to draw your attention to what is going on.

Good call mate, I applaude you for that we are bigger than this, if you feel insulted please let me know and I will deliver my personal appology in public, i always feel proud doing as such, why wait here it is, I'm sorry if I indirectly insulted you by calling you non muslim, but I was speaking logically anyway not emotionally, emotions can't drive me

Emotions cant drive you huh? D That made me chuckle , respectfully bro D We are all battling the emotions, that is our test, if you have full command, you probably dont need any guidance. D

Ahmed
You didn't even confirm that you felt insulted when I called you non muslim and you left others to assume it , can you please tell me if you were insulted so I appolgise to you?, so far it seems to me you didn't feel insulted

IF1
Respected brother, should I require someone to say the words "I'm sorry" for me to then transcend my emotions? What is the magical power in those words? The things you stated about me affected the animal within me, but I am in control of my animal (I strive to be). So it really does not matter if you insulted me or not, what matters is how I respond to that, and my response to you was PEACE. What better response than that?
I already apologised bro and i hope you accept it sincerely

idolfree1 wrote
If you cant talk to your father about religion or people on this forum without arguing, how can you say you are in control of your emotions?

Well, if your father is a clear cut sunni sect follower, thes what I said makes great sense and sensible, LOL

No, if emotions cant drive you as you stated above, then why argue?

Do you realize what happes to your physical body when you get emotional? The LIFE GIVING, PRECIOUS NURTURING BLOOD leaves the vital organs and goes into "fight or flight" mode. We can go more into detail about this, but when the doctor tells you that "stress leads to illness", it is because mankind cannot control thier emotions, in fact, many are ADDICTED to emotions!

So if you get physically unhealthy every time you leave the state of PEACE, what is the benefit of it? To win a debate and be known as a tough debator?

idolfree1 wrote
My statement is that peopel are not in control of thier emotions, the let thier emotions dictate what they say and do.

Ok, but do you think prophets can fully control their emotions?, I assummed that prophets are not metaphors and for real

the word "nabi" describes one who can INTUIT solutions/answers to the problems of life, as oppossed to learning externally. They are stil "men" like us undergoing a test. I am sure that they win the battle against the snake more than most of mankind. D

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,

idolfree1 wrote

I cannot give you what you are requesting, but here is an atempt.

Thank you.

No problem, I tried D

idolfree1 wrote
(4914) "al-aAArabu" say "We believe." Say "You do not believe, and but say 'We are men of peace' and the belief did not enter in your hearts/minds . And if you obey The God and His messenger He does not reduce/diminish you a thing from your deeds , that truly The God (is) forgiving, merciful."

Which word did u understand as 'men of peace'? Coz no one else mentioned it.

Sorry, you did ask for literal didn't you? ops

Men(and women) of peace is the implication of "muslimeen".

idolfree1 wrote
"al aAAeabu" in my opinion is not speaking about "arabs", so I have left it untranslated.

Ok.

The words translated as arabic and arab , in my opinion, deal with some kind of clarity, but I need more insight on that.

idolfree1 wrote
Basically the verse is saying that there is a difference between a peaceful person and one who actively cultivates his spirit(nafs) by practicing universal disciplines.

This is teling us that the state of PEACE is the first step to greater things.if we cant even discuss without getting emotional (opposite of peace) we wont get anywhere.

Ok, this is all metaphorical interpretation, isnt it?
Insightful! Thanks for sharing ur understanding.

Thank you for accepting it graciously even if you dont agree 100% D