gay people and islam
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I should say ur topic seems to have generated quite a lot of interest here that it has had more than 60 posts in about 18 hrs. Is that a record of some kind?
Not really, it's almost predictable, every once in a while there's one of these threads popping up...http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3561
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3458
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2652
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1565
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=751
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=692
PS - Check out the second one from the top and see how many pages that generated. )
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it seems that we look up to the bible it states very clearly that god condemns homosexuality, so does the quran, even if it's not as obvious as the bible.
but the least that i can hope from this community is not to stigmatize gay people. even if the scriptures say it's wrong, but we live in a society that gives everyone the rights to live their lives, and we are expected to have tolerance for everyone. just like when we have to live with people with different religions, even if our scriptures comdemns them of worshipping different god from ours, but it doesn't mean that we have the rights to not let them live their lives peacefully.
maybe we don't agree with homosexuality and use our scriptures to justify it, as much as we don't agree with atheism and other religions, but discriminating them by not granting them a legal to get married is quite intolerant. we don't agree with people who have different religions from us, but it doesn't mean that we can deny all or part of their legal rights, does it?
maybe all those homosexuals and people who believe different gods will go to hell, but who are we to judge them? and yes, the scriptures say this and that about them, but i don't agree if we use our scriptures to condemn particular group of people that we don't like. let them live their lives, we live in a society with variety of people, we can't expect every one of them to follow every rules in our religion.
as far as all the datas on the sexual misconducts of homosexual people are concerned, i don't think it's the right tool to judge them. the crime statistics of black and latino people are in general much higher than those of white people. but does it make that those black people do the crimes because they are black? sometimes people forgot that black people has been trapped in the system that has been discriminating them for so long since the slavery time, and i think this systematic crimes kind of happened to homosexual community too. that they have been being prejudiced and many of them are confused about themselves, thus the high level of suicide and drug abuse.
i don't think we will ever come to any agreement on this matter, we can only come to the state of tolerance, just like our tolerance to let other people have whatever religions they believe in. -
i only joined this forum yesterday, and since i moved to the US, i've been questioning certain issues that never came in my mind before.
i was just curious if this god alone movement would have better perspective on gay people, but i guess it's just like christianity, judaism, and traditional islam.
another thing that i don't agree is that when it was mentioned that homosexual people are mostly talented in certain areas because it's satan plot. it's just very absurd to me to hear this kind of thing. if heterosexual people are gifted and talented then it's from god, and if it happens to homosexual people then it's from satan?
this sounds very much like anti-semitism, when muslim and christian nuts would say that many jewis people are talented and powerful because it's part of satan plot.
i believe that god is the most merciful, and he gives anyone a talent if he wills, doesn't matter if he's muslim or not, heterosexual or not. -
Peace "sawtooth",
That's all I needed to knw. so again, why would god condemn someone to this "sinful way" ?
JK- There maybe various reasons for this. Many people are born with deformities, allergies, chronical diseases, etc. Many people are born into corrupt societies causing them to become corrupt and murderers as well. Why would GOD condemn them? I believe in original sin not the christian way but that each indivdual once of us has sinned otherwise it makes no sense why we should be here and not with GOD like the angels. Anyways GOD says in the Quran that He never burdens a soul beyond that which it can bear so everyone can control it. And if someone is born with hs feelings, then out of fear of GOD controls them he may receive a multitude of the normal reward for abstaining for such behaviour. So GOD has His ways and Hes never unjust. He knows while you do not. GOD Bless!
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Hi,
Something wrong and unatural will always be opposed. It is the law of the Universe. However, I do not stigmatize your views. If you think its OK, keep it that way, but saying that homosexuals are alright, as a scientist i do not agree with that. We need to help these people. I know in Judaism, christianity and Islam oppose it, well its God command. The creator is right after all.
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i only joined this forum yesterday, and since i moved to the US, i've been questioning certain issues that never came in my mind before.
i was just curious if this god alone movement would have better perspective on gay people, but i guess it's just like christianity, judaism, and traditional islam.
another thing that i don't agree is that when it was mentioned that homosexual people are mostly talented in certain areas because it's satan plot. it's just very absurd to me to hear this kind of thing. if heterosexual people are gifted and talented then it's from god, and if it happens to homosexual people then it's from satan?
this sounds very much like anti-semitism, when muslim and christian nuts would say that many jewis people are talented and powerful because it's part of satan plot.
i believe that god is the most merciful, and he gives anyone a talent if he wills, doesn't matter if he's muslim or not, heterosexual or not.rotfl I love it when people claim things are satanic plots and refuse to look at the underlying reasons. However...
Something wrong and unatural will always be opposed. It is the law of the Universe. However, I do not stigmatize your views. If you think its OK, keep it that way, but saying that homosexuals are alright, as a scientist i do not agree with that. We need to help these people. I know in Judaism, christianity and Islam oppose it, well its God command. The creator is right after all.
I do agree with you, something that is wrong is never allowed and it is natural law for it to be this way. Even if no religion opposes it, it is still wrong. I also do not see why those who claim to believe in the quran can defend homosexuality when it clearly says that it is wrong. The quran is not talking about violence, it is talking about men sleeping together as they would with women...and it is wrong. This discussion does not need to be so polarized. Even if we can all agree that homosexuality is natural, well it is still wrong as incest is wrong.
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All the wrong is from us and satan and his army does do their part in this. Although we need to find the reason behind this. If someone kill you dad for no reason, I think I will say it from satan, because the satan does suggest these things. There is nothing wrong by saying that
because it's satan plot. it's just very absurd to me to hear this kind of thing. if heterosexual people are gifted and talented then it's from god, and if it happens to homosexual people then it's from satan?
this sounds very much like anti-semitism, when muslim and christian nuts would say that many jewis people are talented and powerful because it's part of satan plot.Ye if they are gifted and talented it is from god. But if they start practising anal sex with other man, I do not think it is from God, doesn't it make sense idea
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Hi Zenje,
I should say ur topic seems to have generated quite a lot of interest here that it has had more than 60 posts in about 18 hrs. Is that a record of some kind?
Not really, it's almost predictable, every once in a while there's one of these threads popping up...http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3561
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3458
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2652
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1565
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=751
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=692
PS - Check out the second one from the top and see how many pages that generated.
That one had about 234 posts in 10 days.............which is roughly........23 posts per day.
And out here, current score is 76 posts in just one day.
Woo Hoo! This must be a record wink
Peace!
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Peace be upon you,
shock Wow, i've only been gone since yesterday!
Listen brothers and sisters, we are talking about SEX, nothing more.
Forget about "Love", "Marriage", "equal rigts", etc etc, these are all emotional strings that are pulled to bring sympaty to this topic. It is a smoke screen. And no matter how many times one saya that Homosexuals should not be tormented but treated with respect, its like it goes in one ear and out the other.
The topic is SEX, thats why they are called "HomoSEXuals". But then you see he tricks of phrases like "Gay american" and that nonsense.
Topo, you asked why I compared it to child molestation, I did so because we are talking about sexual perversion, whta else would I compare it to except beastiality, I did not want to take it to that level.
But while marriage has bee brougt up, lets discuss the purpose of marriage, the purpose is to have two spiritually minded people come together to help each other stay on the path and to CREATE A CHILD that they can raise as a spiritual being. Its not about getting tax breaks and goverment treats and all that.
Further, people are talking about this "trying out" nonsense. Its clear from that that this is a mental issue as MOST things are.
Genetics? Homosexuals cant have kids, so how is it passed down?
I will conclude this message in the same manner as I have been, it is not the PERSON that I reject, it is the ACT. I treat HUMANS with respect and offer peace to all, but I do not condone nor promote that which is CLEARLY WRONG, especially when I have a 11 year old daughter who has to watch all this foolish behavior on every TV show and radio nowadays, which is why it is getting bigger and bigger. The same way kids emulate everything else on TV.
Enough is enough
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Hi idolfree1,
Peace be upon you,
shock Wow, i've only been gone since yesterday!Thats exactly what I meant )
But while marriage has bee brougt up, lets discuss the purpose of marriage, the purpose is to have two spiritually minded people come together to help each other stay on the path and to CREATE A CHILD that they can raise as a spiritual being. Its not about getting tax breaks and goverment treats and all that.
Well, would u say that two like minded heterosexual people(or like u say, spiritually minded people) who also happen to be infertile shouldnt get married since their marriage wont create a child?
What if the two heterosexual partners are fertile but yet choose not to have a child and instead decide to adopt? Should they not get married since they dont intend to create a child?
Peace!
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and sex (outside of procreation) is nothing more that an act of personal pleasure. So who cares what OTHERS want to do. I am sure they an be told they are headed to hell in a hand basket, and I am also sure most if not all, don't give a hoot. So what does it matter?
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i just checked some other threads on homosexuality on this forum, and i got more insight about this matter.
it's been quite interesting to see different opinions and views from people here, i must admit that i wouldn't even think to post this subject matter on any muslim forums. i just thought that this forum would be more open minded and think out of the box. i would've been kicked out if i dared enough to post it on traditional muslim forums. in certain degrees, this god alone movement is much more progressive than those of its 'competitors', at least it allows self-critics to the scripture, debating it openly and not depend on certain scholars or mullahs to interpret it.
but, i think the issue of homosexuality is still very much stuck, and i guess it will stay this way for many years to come.
i was growing up being taught that homosexuality was wrong, and even now i still think that it's still not natural. but the more i get to know more about gay people, the more i realize that they just can't escape their sexuality. and i'm pretty much stuck in the middle, between what the scriptures say about them and the facts about their unstoppable sexual orientation.
and i completely don't agree when people comparing homosexuality with other forms of perversion.
incest is horrendous sexual crime, and it's not something that can be compared to homosexuality. it's horrible sexual act for both heterosexual and homosexual people.
if heterosexual are not supposed to conduct sexual intercourse with animals, family members, children, or people outside their marriage, neither are homosexual people. so the norm is the same, it's just that the couple got the same gender.
to me, marriage is a form of taking legal responsibilities in relationship with someone else, based on mutual respects and love.
it's been believed for so long time that children can only be born within heterosexual relationship, so when the idea of gay couple adopting children or even human cloning came up, it freaked the religious folks out.
is everything that against the nature wrong? it's very absurd that religious nuts consider everything that people do or invent that is against the nature as against god's will. that is only why catholics and some fundamentalist muslim oppose birth control because they think it's against god's will to create children.
to me, human souls can be brought to world in many different ways, if science can do that. why think that it's challenging god's will? why not just think the other way around? that it proves that god has created the biological world so amazingly that all those science invention can happen. but i think it's another subject matter -B
but anyway, when it comes to sexual relationship, i don't see gender as a problem anymore, because some people were born transexual or with two private parts anyway. i think it just shows that god doesn't actually care about people's gender, we are free souls, genderless. there are girls who are boyish, so are boys who are girlish, but who cares? in some regards, this kind of awareness makes people more egalitarian. -
Peace be upon you peaceful musilm,
Well, would u say that two like minded heterosexual people(or like u say, spiritually minded people) who also happen to be infertile shouldnt get married since their marriage wont create a child?
Before I continue down this line of marriage, please list the reasons besides raising a peaceful, submitting child, that two would have for getting married. I just want to open this up a bit so we can see clearly.
What if the two heterosexual partners are fertile but yet choose not to have a child and instead decide to adopt?
Great! They will be good role models , showing the child how yin and yang complement each other in ALL of the universe.
Should they not get married since they dont intend to create a child?
Yes, they should get married and take up the responsibilty that two others failed to do.
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Peace be upon you Sawtooth,
So who cares what OTHERS want to do
Ahhhhhh, this is the deadliest question! This is a question that is devlish in nature ( I am not calling you devlish). It is opposit to the concept of UNITY that is most important in spirituality. We MUST care what others do, we MUST! It is the NOT CARING that is causing the world to go to hell.
An example that is given in my culture is that a child used to get reprimanded by ANYONE in the neighborhood when they got out of line, but nowadays, no one cares, so the youth have gotten out of hand in in many cases have taken over the neighborhoods and the Older people are scared to say anything.
What if someone wants to sit outside and masturbate in your neighborhood? Should we say "Who cares?"
What if they want to sit on the corner, in full view of young children and smoke crack? Should we make laws for them and give them thier own cable station and represent them on every TV show and Radio show and give them thier own flag?