Al Quran=The Reading[(not the title) of the Book]
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salam brother AhmedBahgat.
Good Morning bro
Just waked up
Salam brother darbaari
How do you say the above bro, why you are translating ?Al Quran?, to ?The Reading? and not calling it ?The Writing??,
why would i translate "al quran" to "writing" , when it means "reading" .
I didnlt mean to translate the Arabic word Al Quran to the Writing
I mean to trnalste the Arabic word Al Kitab to ?the Writing?
remember, it is also called ?Al Kitab?, and we are 100% certain that Al kitab is a collection of writings, while we are not certain that Quran means ?Reading??
i m 100% certain that quran means reading .
Please, show us just one single example from any where in the world but not from the Quran that the word Quran was used to express reading, putside the Quran,
Ka Ta Ba? root in Arabic is ?To write?, therefore based on that logic, The Quran should be called ?The Writing? not ?The Reading?, do you agree mate?
the written aspect of the God's word is called al kitab/the writing . when read, it is called al quran/the reading .
any proofs from the Quran regarding the above?
Here is a verse calling it Kitab and Quran at the same time
YUSUFALI A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;-
PICKTHAL A Scripture whereof the verses are expounded, a Lecture in Arabic for people who have knowledge,
SHAKIR A Book of which the verses are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know
(3)
in this verse , kitab and quran are not the same , but the verse is saying that "arabic quran" is the explanation of verses of kitab . which is further confirmed by 1037
1037 This Quran/Reading could not have been produced by other than God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and an explanation of the Kitab/Book in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
see , the quran and kitab are not the same , but the quran/reading is an explanation of the kitab/written/book . both are not the same .
excuse me bro, why Alllah explains to us a book that we never had?, it does not sum up bro, I commented before on 1037, here it is again
?This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds. ?
(37)
-> Bro the above verse is clear as light, it can?t be one of those Mutashabihat verses, firstly the verse can be divided into three complete sentences divided by the letter ?Waw? ? ? as follow
-> ? ?, very clear and explicitly talking about the Quran, i.e. ? This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah?-> ? ?, and this one should be clear but not as clear as the first one, the English translation was translated by YA as follow ? on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it?, obviously he understood ? ? as previous scriptures, while this logic may be acceptable, it can also be argued that Allah never mentioned previous scriptures in the verse rather ? ? which is literally ?That is between his hands?, hence I see it differently and with less speculations, that I don?t know what Allah means with that between his hands, possibly another book, possibly something else, how can we know?
The point is simply, the Quran is a confirmation to what is between Allah hands and that is the closest interpretation I can come up with according to the Arabic words, I see as Allah has His master constitution up there and the Quran is just a section of legist elations of the master constitution, this section of legislation named the Quran is only covering what we need to prosper and we will not find the whole constitution in it.
->? ?, this is the part where unneeded confusion may arise, the English translation is as follow ? and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.?, which I see it fine however the Book mentioned with no doubt that will be explained by Allah is also the Quran, remember verse 22?, just look in my signature, that verse is talking about the Quran and was also called ?Kitab?, I wonder how some think that the Kitab mentioned in 1037 is not the Quran?, well, I can tell from the composed Arabic sentences and sure from the context that it has to be 100% the Quran
Assuming the Kitab mentioned in 1037 is not the Quran and just another Kitab that Allah has up there, now please tell me
Why Allah is telling us that no doubt the explanation of the Kitab will happen if we don?t have that kitab in our hands?,
It does not make any sense bro
A final note in here, if you look at the translations by these populars translators you will see that Yusuf Ali and Shakir translated Quran to Quran, Pickthal however translated Quran to Lecture
do you think that Lecture means Reading? and why you think Yusuf Ali and Shakir translated Quran to Quran?
i dunno .
I believe lecture, does not mean reading, any native English speaker to confirm to us please?
Thirdly when you answered them back that it is the Quran , what did you achieve exactly other than wasting time? Trying to be smart but back to square one? I don?t really get it bro, no disrespect here, I guess the conversation between you and that person will be diverted to why you are calling it reading but not Quran?, that is an additional waste of time bro, and the outcome will always be
It is that book called Quran,
the only reason i use the word "Koran" is to prevent the discussion from going off topic . if in a middle of a discussion(about some other topic) , i use the word "reading" or "book" , then the other person will arguing whether it is a title or an attribute . this will be due to lack of awareness on the other person's part .
ok
Do you think the ones who name it ?Al Quran?, are Kuffar?, or let?s put this way Do you think the ones who name it ?Al Quran?, are committing a sin?
i dont know their intentions . those who are delibrately naming it "Quran" even after realizing that it means "reading" would be committing a sin .
ok and those who is calling it something else that does not exist in the Arabic language, would not be following conjecture?
Remember, so far in 1400 years, no one showed us the Al Quran means The Reading, all we heard is nothing but conjecture
darbaari wrote
This is the verse that was preventing me to accept that ?Al Quran? means ?the Reading?. But later , I found out that according to the Koran , the reading can be read , like the writing can be written (279) or a punishment can be punished (5115) . it might not make sense to an average human , but it makes sense in the Koran?s language.AB wrote
then based on your logic, The Qiraa should be the one to read, not the Quran, because again Quran never meaning reading but Qiraa, here is an online example
Uhibbu Al Qira'a ?
I Love Reading! Volumes 1 & 2not my logic , but the ayaat's logic . i gave u the verse references .
and i prefer the example in 7517-18 over the online example .
but you didn?t reply to the Quran example (413) I posted where Kitab and Quran were referring to the Quran?
I have zillions of examples to show you online,
a single example from the ayaat ? the only example is in 7517-18 , which means "reading" .
Again reading in Arabic is called , Qiraa
but I have an important question to you
Do you think those who write these children books are fooling the innocent children?, why do you think they lied at them and told them that Reading is Qiraa and not Quran?
To discourage them from reading the Quran you reckon?
Or it is a conspiracy that most Arabs (if not all) over all generations are contributing to it somehow?
Do you think those Arabs who call Reading Qiraa and not Quran are going to hell?
i dont know their intentions . in my opinion it is mostly because of misunderstanding on their part .
so they misunderstand their own native language, and some non arabic speakers comes and suggest they are wrong?, yeh it makes sense to me
darbaari wrote
because I think that ?quran? means ?reading? , like in the following verses7517 Surely, upon Us rests its collection and its reading(quraana hu) .
7518 So when We read it(quraana hu), then follow thou its reading(quraana hu)thanks and salam.
AB wrote
this is the superiority of the language used in the Quran, this one of the things that stunned the arabs indeed, to use the name of the Quran in a miraculous way to indicate following itbrother , these verses are not using the name "Quran" . but the words "quraana hu" simply means "its reading" . not "its Quran" .
I?m sorry bro, ?Quraana hu?, can also mean in the sentence ?Allah?s Quran?, Allah many time refered to Himself as "Hu?, therefore it is quite possible that this verse means Allah?s Quran and therefore it is a Mutashabihat verse and its true meaning can never be known
thanks and salam .
Take care
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Peace bro darbaari/ tanveermd/ all,
15 1. Alif Lam Ra. These are the VERSES of the BOOK and (of) a QURAN that makes (things) clear.
Alif La_m Ra_, tilka A_YA_Tul KITA_Bi wa QUR'A_Nim mubin(in).-
And when you RECITE the QURAN,?.
Wa iza_ QARA'Tal QUR'A_Na?.. -
And thus have We sent it down an Arabic Quran....
20114.?and DO NOT MAKE HASTE WITH THE QURAN BEFORE ITS REVELATION IS MADE COMPLETE TO YOU and say O my Lord ! increase me in knowledge.
Quran =Reading
Readind = act of looking and understanding written words.
The confusion is there was no written words send down in Arabic for Mohammed to read?
the meaning "reading" can only be applied where there are written words to look atpeace.
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Peace brother Ahmed,
I have a question for you
1037 is usually translated like this
1037 This qur'aan could not have been produced by other than God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and an explanation of al-kitab in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
According to the Arabic language and grammar, can 1037 be translated as following ?
1037 This qur'aan could not have been produced by other than God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and explanation of al-kitab, in which there is no doubt, is from the Lord of the worlds.
I have deleted the "an" before "explanation", and added "is" before "from" in the red part.
According to this translation, the blue part is talking about the qur'aan produced only by Allah to authenticate what is already present meaning the already revealed scriptures before qur'aan.
The red part is saying that there is no doubt in al-kitab, and that the explanation of al-kitab is from Allah.
So that way, al-qur'aan and al-kitab will be referring to the same book, and there is no confusion. What do you think ?
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Peace agentxxx,
The confusion is there was no written words send down in Arabic for Mohammed to read?
the meaning "reading" can only be applied where there are written words to look atThe verses of al-qur'aan were written down as soon as they were revealed. Thus there were written words to look at and the meaning "the reading" can be applied.
According to my research from Lane Lexicon, "al-qur'aan" can also mean "the collection/compilation" (collection/compilation of verses or chapters)
References
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000030.pdf
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000031.pdf
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000032.pdf
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Peace brother Ahmed,
I have a question for you
1037 is usually translated like this
1037 This qur'aan could not have been produced by other than God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and an explanation of al-kitab in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
According to the Arabic language and grammar, can 1037 be translated as following ?
1037 This qur'aan could not have been produced by other than God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and explanation of al-kitab, in which there is no doubt, is from the Lord of the worlds.
I have deleted the "an" before "explanation", and added "is" before "from" in the red part.
Salam brother Tanveermd
yes the translation is fine
According to this translation, the blue part is talking about the qur'aan produced only by Allah to authenticate what is already present meaning the already revealed scriptures before qur'aan.
I can accept the above too
The red part is saying that there is no doubt in al-kitab, and that the explanation of al-kitab is from Allah.
not really the doubt is targetting Al Kitab, rather is targetting THE EXPLANATION OF AL KITAB, i.e.
There is no doiubt in the explanation of the book
So that way, al-qur'aan and al-kitab will be referring to the same book, and there is no confusion. What do you think ?
we agree on the blue part and I agreed on the red part as you put it like this
and explanation of al-kitab, in which there is no doubt, is from the Lord of the worlds
which clearly says "and explanation of al-kitab in which there is no doubt, is from the Lord of the worlds", which I understand it that the doubt is about the explanation of the book hence I accepted it, i remeved the comma between the two parts.
don't forget brother that Allah called Al Quran, kitab and al kitab many times as well he told us that HE IS IN CHARGE IN EXPLAINING the Quran, and when He said that to the prophet "Ina Alayna Bayanhu" it sounds like a future event to me, and that future event is not doubful, and that is what 1037 is telling us, remember that we only need to know Al Quran to pass, we don't need an explanation to a book that we don't have neither we are tested against it, it makes absolutely no sense
Salam
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salma bro AhmedBahgat.
darbaari wrote
in this verse , kitab and quran are not the same , but the verse is saying that "arabic quran" is the explanation of verses of kitab . which is further confirmed by 10371037 This Quran/Reading could not have been produced by other than God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and an explanation of the Kitab/Book in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
see , the quran and kitab are not the same , but the quran/reading is an explanation of the kitab/written/book . both are not the same .
AB wrote
excuse me bro, why Alllah explains to us a book that we never had?, it does not sum up bro, I commented before on 1037, here it is again?This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds. ?
(37)
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............Assuming the Kitab mentioned in 1037 is not the Quran and just another Kitab that Allah has up there, now please tell me
Why Allah is telling us that no doubt the explanation of the Kitab will happen if we don?t have that kitab in our hands?,
It does not make any sense bro
no , no , u misunderstood me . the 'al kitab' mentioned in 1037 is the book i.e Koran (or the book we call "Koran" , not some other book that Allah has up there). and 'al quran' is the reading of the book . i.e when u read it , the book is explained .
i.e the Reading is explanation of the Book/Written .
darbaari wrote
not my logic , but the ayaat's logic . i gave u the verse references .and i prefer the example in 7517-18 over the online example .
AB wrote
but you didn?t reply to the Quran example (413) I posted where Kitab and Quran were referring to the Quran?the quran and kitab are not the same , but both are aspects of what is revealed as mentioned in 412
412 A revelation from the Beneficent, the Merciful
413 A book/kitab whose verses are detailed, a reading/quran in Arabic, for a people who know.the kitab and quran are not the same thing as explained in 1037 .
besides that saying "an arabic Quran" doesnt make sense . it sounds as if there are other books called the "Quran" too .which you said there arent . therefore "arabic reading" makes more sense .
darbaari wrote
brother , these verses(7517-1 are not using the name "Quran" . but the words "quraana hu" simply means "its reading" . not "its Quran" .AB wrote
I?m sorry bro, ?Quraana hu?, can also mean in the sentence ?Allah?s Quran?, Allah many time refered to Himself as "Hu?, therefore it is quite possible that this verse means Allah?s Quran and therefore it is a Mutashabihat verse and its true meaning can never be knownthe verse contains a command/hukm . why would God command someone if one can never understand the meaning of the verse ?! therefore it is a muhkam verse .
and lets replace the words "quraana hu" with "His(Allah's) Quran" (as you say) and see if it makes any sense
7517 Surely, upon Us rests HIS collection and His Quran(quraana hu) .
7518 So when We His Quran(quraana hu), then follow thou His Quran(quraana hu)does it make any sense ? nope .
and now lets translate "quraan" as "reading" , and see if it makes sense
7517 Surely, upon Us rests its collection and its reading(quraana hu) .
7518 So when We read it(quraana hu), then follow thou its reading(quraana hu)does it make sense ? yes it does . therefore "quran" means "reading" .
thanks and salam.
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Peace brother Ahmed,
we agree on the blue part and I agreed on the red part as you put it like this
and explanation of al-kitab, in which there is no doubt, is from the Lord of the worlds
which clearly says "and explanation of al-kitab in which there is no doubt, is from the Lord of the worlds", which I understand it that the doubt is about the explanation of the book hence I accepted it, i remeved the comma between the two parts.
Thanks, it makes sense.
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Peace be upon you,
The confusion is there was no written words send down in Arabic for Mohammed to read?
the meaning "reading" can only be applied where there are written words to look atExactly, except there is ONE VERSE which can always be read, the UNI-VERSE! D
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peace Idolfree1,
Quote
The confusion is there was no written words send down in Arabic for Mohammed to read?
the meaning "reading" can only be applied where there are written words to look atID1-Exactly, except there is ONE VERSE which can always be read, the UNI-VERSE!
bravo D
peace.