Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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Peace all. Because people insist on a literal and 'perfect' interpretation of the quran they leave their book open to contradictions and inconsistencies...If only they viewed their book as a source of potential symbolic wisdom,and not an unverified,literal,perfect idol,then they might actually get to follow god...and not just the quran.
I will start with the first contradiction; 478 and 479. Is evil from god or us? The literal translation is contradictory....Explain please. -
Peace all. Because people insist on a literal and 'perfect' interpretation of the quran they leave their book open to contradictions and inconsistencies...If only they viewed their book as a source of potential symbolic wisdom,and not an unverified,literal,perfect idol,then they might actually get to follow god...and not just the quran.
Given by a person who thinks 'ta'wil' is 'far-fetched' , this comes across as rather lacking in credibility D
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Peace mquran. Its contradictory because it first says everything is from god,...and then says that bad is from us. The only way this is resolved is if we are god. ? idea
If you want to post the literal translation,feel free,but i wont waste my time spoon-feeding you verses. Im sure you know the verses (as do many others.),so you or anyone else quote whichever version of verses you want. -
Peace mquran. Its contradictory because it first says everything is from god,...and then says that bad is from us. The only way this is resolved is if we are god.
If you want to post the literal translation,feel free,but i wont waste my time spoon-feeding you verses. Im sure you know the verses (as do many others.),so you or anyone else quote whichever version of verses you want.Version of verses ? You mean you pick VERSIONS of verses? I'm asking you for the literal translation because I assume you speak directly to the text.
Do you know what a 'nafs' is, before I explain this 'contradition' ?
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peace mquran. I am aware that taweel means 'hidden or more elaborate interpretation',i just used the word in a different context my friend. If you feel i have not translated this word correctly then i dont think it takes a great deal away from the dialogue. And im sure there are different interpretations of this 'clear' arabic word anyway.(or do you have a consensus on this issue.) Educate me if you know soo much,what is taweel and what is nafs...I hope ahmedbhaghat agrees with you,not to mention ayman and anwar.(pro-god.)...Some of You cant even agree on the word islam...
I read from the direct text my friend,i am allowing you to post whichever version,even your own version,i look forward to your explanations. D -
peace mquran. I am aware that taweel means 'hidden or more elaborate interpretation',i just used the word in a different contect my friend. If you feel i have not translated this word correctly then i dont think it takes a great deal away from the dialogue. And im sure there are different interpretations of this 'clear' arabic word anyway.(or do you have a consensus on this issue.) Educate me if you know soo much,what is taweel and what is nafs...I hope ahmedbhaghat agrees with you,not to mention ayman and anwar.(pro-god.)...Some of You cant even agree on the word islam...
So as a 'sincere analyst', you rely on people WHOM YOU'VE NEVER MET to give you interpretations?
Seriously, if you want to be credible, do some work.
Do you know what a nafs is or not?
read from the direct text my friend,i am allowing you to post whichever version,even your own version,i look forward to your explanations
I see, so you read al-quraan, not a translation. I guess you can thus explain why the word nafs is crucial in this verse then.
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I post here a literal translation to ease the woes-
478
Aynama takoonoo yudrikkumu almawtu walaw kuntum fee buroojin mushayyadatin wa-in tusibhum hasanatun yaqooloo hathihi min AAindi Allahi wa-in tusibhum sayyi-atun yaqooloo hathihi min AAindika qul kullun min AAindi Allahi famali haola-i alqawmi la yakadoona yafqahoona hadeethanWherever you are, the death catches up/reaches you , and (even) if you were in towers/castles/constellations built/erected , and if a goodness strikes them, they say "This (is) from at God." And if a sin/crime (harm) strikes them, they say "This (is) from at you." Say "All/each (are) from at God, so how those the nation, they almost do not understand an information/speech?"
479
Ma asabaka min hasanatin famina Allahi wama asabaka min sayyi-atin famin nafsika waarsalnaka lilnnasi rasoolan wakafa biAllahi shaheedanWhat struck you from a goodness, so (it is) from at God, and what struck you from a sin/crime (harm) so (it is) from your self, and We sent you to the people, (as) a messenger and enough with God, (as) a witness/present.
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Peace mquran. I am not relying on you,i have an understanding of what nafs and taweel are, but to clarify the dialogue i asked you if you could educate me.(that was a rhetorical request. D ) Why dont you explain the contradiction my friend,or are you unable to? You seem to be stalling,ive done my work...Are you going to defend your book?
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Peace savage carrot. Thank you for the verses. Now is everything from allah,or only the good? Is the bad only from us? Resolve the contradiction anyone?
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Peace mquran. Im not indulging in your childish games,my question is addressed to anyone,if you want to withold or dont know, then thats fine by me. )
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Hi brothers and Sisters,
Enquirer, here is what I think
As i stated in the topic "where does evil come from?", 'evil/bad' does not exist. It is simply the lack of good. Like cold is simply the lack of energy. Other than that, neither cold nor evil/bad exists. In the same way you cannot create cold as a separate entity, god has not created evil. It is not a part of god's creation. It is therefore not a part of "everything" either.
"evil/bad" as a word is simply a concept we have created for everyting we dislike. And since its a part of our language, god used the word when communicating to us - I speculate.
As you should see, there is no contradiction any longer.
Everything is indeed from god, but not evil/bad, since it does not exist.
Nadeem.
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Enquirer, its sad that you don't know but even sadder that you dont WANT to know. You're hell-bent on proving the quran wrong which stops you from even READING the verses.
Here's the explanation for you
4.78 uses the phrase 'qul kullun min AAindi Allahi '. It doesn't say 'say everything is from ALLAH' but 'everything is from AAINDA Allah'. If you 'rational' (sic) analysis was even a little credible, you'd know that this word shows its part of Allah's Will, like al-islaam is ad-deen AAINDA Allah.
4.79 speaks of the nafs, i.e. the centre of perception, feelings, emotions. This is why the verse says 'ma asabaka min sayyiat FAMIN nafsikka, i.e. its our nafs which says something is 'bad'.
This is why I asked you about the nafs. Sadly, with the superficiality of your analysis doubled with the arrogance of your intention to sentence al-quraan, you don't want to even look at it. It's not 'childish' to ask for a detailed analysis with the actual text rather than 'versions' and coming up with 'far-fetched' nonsense.
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Peace nadeem. That is a possible scenario which makes some sense...This however shows my point that you have to interpret the quran symbolically and from your own intelligence/experience to make some sense of it.(note you did not use any verses to explain the verses. wink ) That is what i was getting at in my first post in this thread. The book is only as good as the reader.
Also to say that evil does not exist is of little consequence to suffering people. -
peace all
The very fact that it is written in Arabic makes the point clear for me. There is no doubt that God is, this CAN be verified very easily for those who wants to. The Quran is a hodge podge of old stuff, wich is a statement that by the Quran would make me a hipocrate. It is states that it is a Quran in arabic for all mankind. All mankind doesnt speak arabic, and few people who didnt grow up with the language will ever master it to a degree where "evidence" such as linguistic quality makes any sense.
On other words, most people who are muslims, will never ever read the whole Quran themself, but will be at the mercy of other peoples THis is the very recipe for ullemahs, wich according to some, isnt the purpose of the Quran.Why didnt God chose mandarin? that would cover way more people at one time? Why does all the messages that stay come out of the same limited area? Is europeans not godly enough to receave messengers and messenges? If they had them, how come God allowed for their message to be destroyed and perverted in a way that to obtain salvation, we now have to submit ourself to the mercy of other people?
obviously this makes no sense. And that is because it doesnt make any sense, there simply isnt anything more to it.
We are kissing hanks ass. Whenever put in front of a logical problem people start tossing verses about, like shit from a new born. Not always the same verses or understandings.
The quran is only the truth because the Quran states so, and to some this is easyer to deal with in their life, than "being alone" and insecure in a world that is frightening.
I owe to the Quran that i became monotheistic in my practice and belief. I owe it to the Quran that i stick with certain values, that i had in my life before i ever read or knew about it, and now i realise, that nothing the Quran will tell me cant be taught from other sources if you are aware and stay intellectually honest with everything that youre doing.
To me this pose the greatest challenge of the Quran itself. Do you learn from it, change, and move on. Or do you learn from it, and keep it as a pet from wich you can always find "bullets of truth" to fire at people that disagree with you. Nomatter the subject, i can always find verses to back me up, pretty much nomatter my oppinion too. Is it honest. oh hell no it isnt. But the whole smacking verses in peoples faces is dishonest to begin with because you still only get an oppinion. This time not even the oppinion of the subject at hand, but the posters oppinon on interpretation of a book, with universal truths that can be found in any "religious" scripture that i know of. And this would include both the sanskrit and the cuneiform, from wich most of the storys are planked to begin with (wich answer the question as to why it all comes from the same area, because it did come and evolve from the same general area).
There is ZERO evidence of the norse ever being monotheistic. Yet the Quran claims they where. How am I to confirm this then?
I have as much faith in the Quran as i do with any enlightening scripture written by men and women of understanding. No doubt this people had profound knowledge, but what we are reading is THEIR ideas of the divine. Not the wirtten word of God. And if you have to point to the Quran irtself, to prove it is from God. YOu have failed to prove anything.
God does not work in circular logic obviously, the Quran movement does.
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Peace magi. I thank you for your superb and honest post. D
Why are others limiting god to an arabic book? -
Peace magi. I thank you for your superb and honest post.
Why are others limiting god to an arabic book?Poor guy. He creates his own illusions and fights them. The issue here is the FALLIBILITY and/or FALLACIOUSNESS of al-quraan, not the SOLE POSITION of al-quraan as dispenser of wahi and/or inzaal. One wonders why these red herrings need to be thrown about if Al-quraan were so easily deconstructed.
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Hi Enquirer!
Your absolutely right, I didn't use the quran. However I was under it's guidance/inspiration, as well under the quidance of my knowledge.
That's how I use the quran. For guidance, not for dictatorship.
Also to say that evil does not exist is of little consequence to suffering people.
Actually, to say that it does exist, is the root of the problem. When you say "There is so much evil, I must fight it". This is the problem. You have made a separate existence of evil, that is not real. And now you want to fight it - something that doesnt really exist. What you do, is to blame someone, and that person becomes your target. Notice "you blame", "your target".
So now your on a war with the person, and think that "once I get rid of him, there will be peace". Foolish. Someone at his side who survives will attack you back. And then you'll attack him back, and this goes on and on. History will testify to this. The Irish solution was to the kill everyone, children, women, men, elderly - Everyone. Even more evil!
But, did you get rid of evil now? Did you?
NO!
You failed to understand that evil is not some separate being, it is the lack of good. As Elie Wiesel said
The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifferenceYou forgot that evil is in this world today, not because of what evil actions people do, but because of what good actions they dont do.
"All that is neccessary for the triumph of evil, is that good men do nothing" - some enlightened person said.
And this is what i mean. If you know what evil really is, then you'll know that war is not the solution, but being good and encouraging good is the ultimate solution.
As gandhi said, "Be the change you want in the world."
That quite sums it up.
Nadeem.
Ps. By "you" in the above example, I'm not refering to a person in here or outside. -)
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Poor guy. He creates his own illusions and fights them. The issue here is the FALLIBILITY and/or FALLACIOUSNESS of al-quraan, not the SOLE POSITION of al-quraan as dispenser of wahi and/or inzaal. One wonders why these red herrings need to be thrown about if Al-quraan were so easily deconstructed.
'nice strawman mq. You didnt adress anything i said, and handed me your personal oppinion about my intellectual honesty. is that what your idol tells you to do?
Edit Besides im not fighting anything. Im vcomfortable in my faith thank you mr. mq god who knows what is within us.