Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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Peace thegod. I am bringing things to your attention for you to verify,not asking you to believe me. I have posted a few verses and will post some more as well. Even to show 1 contradiction is enough my friend. I am not stating the quran is corrupt,i am stating it is not perfect and that it is only as good as the interpreter...
Why make assumptions about me...Of course i believe in some sort of deterrent/rehabilitaion for theft.(just not cutting of the hand in todays society. .) I dont know why you are getting so emotional,if your that convinced about the quran you should be able to disprove me easily?
Do i need an objective common standard to say i like chocolate? Can you prove i dont like chocolate if i say i do? Verify for yourself my friend. I know the example of chocolate is a bit weird,but i am trying to get a point across.
one of the valid reasons(of many.) i have for saying the quran is incomplete in itself ,is that it says its a clear book or a criterion,yet most on this forum disagree or cannot understand its meanings. -
Peace all. Ok,some translations state that only god can know what is in the wombs...(end of surah 31.) What about the new pictures we have on an ultrasound of babies in the womb? Can you see an inconsistency with the literal interpretations?
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peace savage carrot. I told you its hard to stick to the specific topic sometimes...What was this thread about again?...Dont worry,i dont mind at all...its very interesting. Can you say 'double standards'.
What a load of crock. I asked people to stick to the topic and obviously some had a problem with me saying it...since most of your threads go down this way and you don't have a problem in not sticking to the topic, I kept answering Magi's posts. Can you say bull?
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peace all. What about the quran saying that allah doesnt change his ways or laws,(or sunnat.) and then jesus being born without a father,a stick turning into a snake,the splitting of the sea into two firm mountains,jesus speaking as a baby,fire not burning abraham etc...
All creatures are supposed to do sujood to allah alone,and yet allah asked the angels to do sujood to adam?
Allah never commanding indecency,but then abraham being asked to sacrifice an innocent son? If you take these literally you make the book contradictory and inconsistent... Please explain these verses... -
peace savage carrot. If only you defended the truth as well as you try to defend yourself and your opinions of your book...
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enquirer wrote
Peace thegod. I am bringing things to your attention for you to verify,not asking you to believe me. I have posted a few verses and will post some more as well. Even to show 1 contradiction is enough my friend. I am not stating the quran is corrupt,i am stating it is not perfect and that it is only as good as the interpreter...i believe somebody did address the verses which u posted...if u are not satisfied with the response u are free to air ur views...but just posting a few verses does not in any way strengthen ur claims! i wonder if u can understand and appreciate that point! -)
enquirer wrote
Why make assumptions about me...Of course i believe in some sort of deterrent/rehabilitaion for theft.(just not cutting of the hand in todays society. .) I dont know why you are getting so emotional,if your that convinced about the quran you should be able to disprove me easily?assumptions about u? like? could u shed some more light on the deterrent/rehabilitation part as guided by ur god? D
talking about assumptions.....is driving home the fact that u are slandering the quran being emotional? remind me not to take my logical self for god! D
as for 'disproving' it also requires biting the bullet...but humans have a tendency to desire outthinking god! again...i do not wish to even attempt at disproving u unless u bring forth some proof for ur claims!
enquirer wrote
Do i need an objective common standard to say i like chocolate? Can you prove i dont like chocolate if i say i do? Verify for yourself my friend. I know the example of chocolate is a bit weird,but i am trying to get a point across.yes...thats wierd alright...should i verify for myself that u like chocolates or not? i can verify according to my standards whether or not a certain opinion u carry about the choc is valid...but i cannot verify for myself whether or not u like the choc...n why should i? -S wonder if i was able to get the point u tried to put across! D
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You started out in the thread by saying, no phonebook logic, this is what spawned a debate on human logic in generel. Maybe i am wrong, but i assumed you where reffering to the logic analysis of "if it had been from other than God....". By default human logic alone, as demonstrated, this statement is true, given that its logical equivalence is true aswell. If the logical equlence is to have the same truth value, a phonebook is indeed from God. Any speculation as to what books God might mean with this, is pure speculation on behalf of the reader.
lol Books claiming to be from God. Logic starts with a premise. They would have found in IT much discrepancy. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what IT means. It is just comprehension if you read the verse NOT speculation.
havent said that it is, on the contrary, you chose to misunderstand a statement i made,wich i 2 times now has clarified, and take it to walk out on a tangent.
You said it is 'off topic' not clarified it imo. If you don't want to talk about some of your statements claiming they are not the point you are trying to make, that's okay.
given that it is supposedly the key to our salvation that IS a problem. Unless ofcourse the salvation lies in us reading it nomatter what we read in it. there is no facit to the book, thus it is unusable as anything but ethical guidelines as nobody will know the right answer untill the examn is over. In other words. We are given the examn and then we will get educated (in hell or heavenb) wich on its own makes very little sense.
The book is the key to salvation? Where do you get this from? What about blind and deaf people? The book is a guide or a shortcut.
a book from wich we always can find "bullets of truth" to shoot at people who disagrees with us. And i have your own words for that the book means anything we want it to, thus the "bullets of truth" is anything we want them to be in any given context we want it to be. Not excactly clear speak is it?
This you can do with any book or movie. Is that fault of the text or yourself?
But it tells me it hasnt been corrupted, and the only evidence i have of it, is the book claiming it is so. So without a first copy, i cannot verify that there is no corruption to it. Thus the statement is pr.default, false. As the book altso makes clear that we shoudnt take anything for face value, but confrim things ourself. How can i confirm this, with the Quran here and now, when i know for a fact that changes HAS been made to it, like insertion of grammer marks.
Logic starts with a premise. It says it's from God. It says if it was from other than God there would be much discrepancy in it. There is your clue. No first copies needed. It gives you the chance to do so. Do the grammar marks create a discrepancy? Can it be solved without creating a discrepancy anywhere else? Prove it false or discrepancy ridden.
THis is no different from what the xtians claim to be doing with their book.
This learning process is avaible to anyone, altso people without a book end up believing in God, and doing good deeds. And i still claim that to do this, often you have to bend corners of logic, wich is against the book itself.So what if the 'xtians' claim this that or whatnot? What do I care? Then you say it is available to everyone. Yes it is. What I don't understand is the last statement. People without a book end up believing in God and doing good deeds are 'bending corners of logic'?
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i guess most of that which i have posted has already been posted on some site or the other and also been addressed, but still just to tackle the first of this bunch....
enquirer wrote
Peace all. Ok,some translations state that only god can know what is in the wombs...(end of surah 31.) What about the new pictures we have on an ultrasound of babies in the womb? Can you see an inconsistency with the literal interpretations?31 34 With God is the knowledge regarding the Hour. And He sends down the rain, and He knows what is inside the wombs. No soul knows what it may gain tomorrow, nor does any soul know in which land it will die. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.
where does it say only god knows what is in the wombs? that said it could also mean other things! -)
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If only you defended the truth as well as you try to defend yourself and your opinions of your book...
You can't seem to do a good job defending any.
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Peace all. Magi makes a very good point. If verse 4;82 states that if the quran was from other than allah there would be many contradictions in it.
Then this means any book without an obvious contradiction can be claimed to be from god...This gives divine claims to phonebooks,scientific journals,posters on free-minds( D .),sports magazines,newspaper reports etc,etc...Not much of a special claim,or is it?... Also does it not give a chance for the person(by human logic.) to state the book is not all from allah?
I could put that claim in a very small pamphlet,verse or my own book. eg
'My internet name on free-minds is enquirer'....This has no contradictions, and is thus a verse from god... Yes or no? -
peace savage carrot. Very intellectual comment.
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Very intellectual comment.
Thank you. Someone had to do it.
'My internet name on free-minds is enquirer'....This has no contradictions, and is thus a verse from god... Yes or no?
Did you read the verse itself? You will find the answer you seek.
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peace thegod. Ok,if allah along with others can know what is in the wombs,what is the point of emhasizing allah knows what is in the wombs?
And if you yourself admit the verse could mean other things,this shows that the verse is not entirely clear,or that you can take any interpretation that fits in with the current facts...How then does this make the quran a stable reference point or criterion? Any christian can also re-interpret his bible to stop it contradicting,or to make it more valid to the current scientific facts. -
Peace enquirer,
peace Zenje. Ah,so i proved my point,you do make arbitrary divisions and harmful interpretations from your own ego,(on the basis of an internet dialogue)...Not from god. or is it?
I just quoted a passage of truth, since you don't believe in it, I'm not sure what your harmful interpretation was.If only half the energy was spent on serving god and being tolerant and open-minded,the world might be a much better place.
Actually I didn't use much energy at all, unless if that's what you meant. And I am serving the God, I'm glad it's not for you to judge though. wink If I'm not mistaken, you've spent more energy on the amount of posts in the past few days than I have in a month.How much energy does tolerance and "open-mindedness" take? ??
Is an open-mind your idol?
I notice when you guys run out of ideas you throw out your quranic misinterpretations
Aww, does that bother you? Here's some more verses from "1400 years ago"!-
And if Our clear revelations are recited to them, you see hatred in the faces of those who have rejected. They are nearly close to attacking those who are reciting to them Our revelations! Say ?Shall I inform you of what is worse than this? The Fire, which God has promised to those who have rejected. What a miserable destiny!?
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The believers are those whom, when God is mentioned, their hearts reverence; and when His revelations are recited to them, it increases their faith; and they put their trust in their Lord.
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And if Our revelations are recited to them, they Say ?We have listened, and if we wish, we could have said the same thing. This is nothing but tales of the ancients!?
Translate and interpret that as you like.
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If I'm not mistaken, you've spent more energy on the amount of posts in the past few days than I have in a month.
Lol, I wonder what's the secret? Twix bars?
Is an open-mind your idol?
lol
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peace zenje. Your harmful interpretation comes from the fact you can quote a verse relating to disbelief when you perceive the person is outside your arbitrary definition of a muslim,dont use allah as an excuse to justify your so-called truth.
.Nothing that you have said really bothers me because i can see your comments are not very deep,and you want to subjugate your mind to a literal,dogmatic,narrow interpretation of the quran. You said your glad im not the judge of belief,didnt you judge me by quoting surah 109 to me?
I try not to follow any idols...,i try to follow god my friend. Whats wrong with an open-mind...What is the site called? ... Ps;very insightful comments savage carrot...Where have your quranic verses got to? -
enquirer wrote
Peace all. Magi makes a very good point. If verse 4;82 states that if the qurank was from other than allah there would be many contradictions in it.
Then this means any book without an obvious contradiction can be claimed to be from god...This gives divine claims to phonebooks,scientific journals,posters on free-minds( .),sports magazines,newspaper reports etc,etc...Not much of a special claim,or is it?... Also does it not give a chance for the person(by human logic.) to state the book is not all from allah?
I could put that claim in a very small pamphlet,verse or my own book. eg
'My internet name on free-minds is enquirer'....This has no contradictions, and is thus a verse from god... Yes or no?lolz!! it states that had the quran been from other than allah it would have contained much conflicts...and not the other way round! i believe this has been adressed on this forum as well so i guess u probably have read some comments on this very good point! D
peace thegod. Ok,if allah along with others can know what is in the wombs,what is the point of emhasizing allah knows what is in the wombs?
And if you yourself admit the verse could mean other things,this shows that the verse is not entirely clear,or that you can take any interpretation that fits in with the current facts...How then does this make the quran a stable reference point or criterion? Any christian can also re-interpret his bible to stop it contradicting,or to make it more valid to the current scientific facts.i would have liked to see u own up that it was a mistake...be it careless...to allege as words of god those which never were...would have set a trend between us to be more honest with rselves...still....never mind D
so have u changed the complaint from god only knowing to why god is emphasising that it knows the burden of the wombs? god also states that it knows what the hearts hide and what the tongues belie? any problems with that? -)
yes...it could mean other things without contradicting itself..like i can say it means god knows whether the womb bears a righteous person or an evil person and it will not be contradicitng itself as god is all-kowing...if christians or faithfuls of any other religion can reconcile their texts to themselves i have no problems with that D
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Peace thegod. Can you point out the mistake you said i made please?
How far will you go to prove that there are no inconsistencies? Do you have any criteria for what is a contradiction? The problem if you keep reconciling texts,is that you can change them any time you perceive a contradiction...is that honest? -
The problem if you keep reconciling texts,is that you can change them any time you perceive a contradiction...is that honest?
How has thegod changed the texts? You said ONLY God knows, the verse is apparently saying different. If you want a criteria, please start posting verses literally yourself before talking about contradictions, so you have one.
Below is an excellent site-
http//yaqb.org/