One True Religion !?
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Peace ammarb87. I dont believe hindus,buddhists,jews,atheists,agnostics etc...Will definately go to hell...
Its the persons practical good deeds,and good intentions which will make him successful...not just his theoretical beliefs...Im sure terrorists and extremists think their theoretical beliefs and rituals alone will send them to heaven...Doesnt mean their behaviour and deeds are good...Deeds and intentions maketh man successful...
Peace all. -
Peace be upon you VE,
As moderator and follower of the order of Abraham, I must warn you against calling others stupid. Such language will not be tolerated. Please show that you are a follower of righteousness by choosing the good response over the bad response.
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Peace be upon you,
War is not prescribed in the reading, fighting is prescribed, but the true fighting is the fight against letting the emotions (shayteen) become your leaders instead of your followers, this is the true jihad. Physical fighting is only done in self defense.
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Lote Tree
Do you know what a context is and can you guess why I mentioned this word in my last post to you?
When you are able to read and quote al-qur'?n chapter 2 verse 116, why then can?t you also read and quote the direct next verse 117, which clearly clarifies when fighting (al qital! not war, which is al harb!) is proscribed and under which circumstances?
Your selection is an unfair one with regards to the content of al-qur'?n.
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Peace be upon you,
War is not prescribed in the reading, fighting is prescribed, but the true fighting is the fight against letting the emotions (shayteen) become your leaders instead of your followers, this is the true jihad. Physical fighting is only done in self defense.
When people instead of coming to the point,,start giving arguments just to oppose the other person, then what can you say?
If a person does not see a thing in the day light then I would say he is blind. Then calling him blind does not do anything wrong.
VE
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Peace be upon you VE,
When people instead of coming to the point,,start giving arguments just to oppose the other person, then what can you say?
I dont know, but what does this have to do with my response about war?
If a person does not see a thing in the day light then I would say he is blind. Then calling him blind does not do anything wrong.
I am sure the prophets dealt with many "blind" people, do you see an example in the reading(quran) of them speaking to people like you do? Calling them stupid and blind?
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Lote Tree
Do you know what a context is and can you guess why I mentioned this word in my last post to you?
When you are able to read and quote al-qur'?n chapter 2 verse 116, why then can?t you also read and quote the direct next verse 117, which clearly clarifies when fighting (al qital! not war, which is al harb!) is proscribed and under which circumstances?
Your selection is an unfair one with regards to the content of al-qur'?n.
Dear Leyla,
You wrote
Where is war proscribed in the qur'?n?
As a general commandment? Nowhere.And I have quoted you
"Fighting is prescribed upon you, and you dislike it. But it may happen that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. And Allah knows and you know not." (2216)
2216 Transliteration Kutiba AAalaykumu alqitalu wahuwa kurhun lakum waAAasa an takrahoo shay-an wahuwa khayrun lakum waAAasa an tuhibboo shay-an wahuwa sharrun lakum waAllahu yaAAlamu waantum la taAAlamoona
Literal
It is written/ordered on you the fighting/killing, and it is hated to you and maybe/perhaps you hate a thing and it is best/good to you, and maybe/perhaps you like/love a thing and it is bad/evil to you, and God knows, and you do not know.Free-Minds - Warfare has been decreed for you while you hate it; and perhaps you may hate something while it is good for you, and perhaps you may love something while it is bad for you; God knows while you do not know.
Rashad Khalifa - Fighting may be imposed on you, even though you dislike it. But you may dislike something which is good for you, and you may like something which is bad for you. GOD knows while you do not know.
If that upsets you because its out of context then I am sorry. But I have shown you a verse that prescribes war.
You could have easily quoted the full context. But you did not.
You wrote quranic concept Murder is Wrong.
But murder is not wrong when committed in war of self-defense isn't it?
So how is that Earth Shatteringly Brilliant Concept?
It is such a human concept! It comes from our innate sense of self-survival.
All species on Earth do this!Regards,
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Lote Tree
Do you know what a context is and can you guess why I mentioned this word in my last post to you?
When you are able to read and quote al-qur'?n chapter 2 verse 116, why then can?t you also read and quote the direct next verse 117, which clearly clarifies when fighting (al qital! not war, which is al harb!) is proscribed and under which circumstances?
Your selection is an unfair one with regards to the content of al-qur'?n.
Dear Leyla,
You wrote
Where is war proscribed in the qur'?n?
As a general commandment? Nowhere.And I have quoted you
"Fighting is prescribed upon you, and you dislike it. But it may happen that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. And Allah knows and you know not." (2216)
2216 Transliteration Kutiba AAalaykumu alqitalu wahuwa kurhun lakum waAAasa an takrahoo shay-an wahuwa khayrun lakum waAAasa an tuhibboo shay-an wahuwa sharrun lakum waAllahu yaAAlamu waantum la taAAlamoona
Literal
It is written/ordered on you the fighting/killing, and it is hated to you and maybe/perhaps you hate a thing and it is best/good to you, and maybe/perhaps you like/love a thing and it is bad/evil to you, and God knows, and you do not know.Free-Minds - Warfare has been decreed for you while you hate it; and perhaps you may hate something while it is good for you, and perhaps you may love something while it is bad for you; God knows while you do not know.
Rashad Khalifa - Fighting may be imposed on you, even though you dislike it. But you may dislike something which is good for you, and you may like something which is bad for you. GOD knows while you do not know.
If that upsets you because its out of context then I am sorry. But I have shown you a verse that prescribes war.
You could have easily quoted the full context. But you did not.
You wrote quranic concept Murder is Wrong.
But murder is not wrong when committed in war of self-defense isn't it?
So how is that Earth Shatteringly Brilliant Concept?
It is such a human concept! It comes from our innate sense of self-survival.
All species on Earth do this!Regards,
Peace Lote-Tree.
You're inaccurately equating concepts here.
"But murder is not wrong when committed in war of self-defense isn't it?"
It's not that it's not wrong, it's that it's not murder. Murder is a specific action. There is a distinction between "killing" and "murder." They are not the same thing. We can see analogues of this idea in Western legal codes. For example, in the US, if one kills someone with malice aforethought, only then is the "killing" called a "murder."
Similarly, "fighting" is not necessarily the same thing as "war." And surely, as per the context, "fighting" is never "fighting of agression" but rather "fighting in self-defense."
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Peace be upon you,
War is not prescribed in the reading, fighting is prescribed, but the true fighting is the fight against letting the emotions (shayteen) become your leaders instead of your followers, this is the true jihad. Physical fighting is only done in self defense.That is your interpretation and if that is good enough for you then there is no need for me go any further. I have only done my bit by quoting diversity of translation that is available...
Shalom, Salaam, Shanti Kyle.
Regards,
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Hey brother VE
Just for your knowledge, Prophet Noah mocked his people when they showed arrogance and stupidity
so don't believe what you always hear
salam
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Peace
Lote Tree
I don?t believe this!
Why is this a returnign thing?
I would like to ask you again to read whole posts and treat them as a totality.In the same post of mine that you quoted I said directly and with clear words that my definition of murder excludes things like self defence and that this is also the definition of al qur'?n.
So your answer is a little bit irrelevant here.
Please go back to the post, read the full post and see for yourself!
That can?t be so difficult!
Thanks!Why does it surprise you that Allah?s concepts are human?
Yes, it is a concept for humans.
The whole d?n of Allah is for humans.
God has nothing from our devotions, he doesn?t need it.
We need His d?n. -
I just don't get it
if someone wants to kill me, (war or not), why I will not be allowed to kill him in self defence?
oh yeh that religion name "Peace", therefore I have to stand still gettin killed as well bring the rest of the family to be killed with me as a matter of peacful and warm greating
please exculde me I don't want to follow that non sense of a religion
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Just for your knowledge, Prophet Noah mocked his people when they showed arrogance and stupidity
so don't believe what you always hear
Peace Ahmed,
and where does it say that Noah was Perfect?
mocking people doesn't accomplish much. I guess that explains why most of his people died in a flood. -
Peace Ahmed,
Peace mate
and where does it say that Noah was Perfect?
I didn?t say that Noah was perfect, in fact I don?t believe that there is a perfect human but if I will ever do then it has to be Prophet Yahya, this is the only prophet who never made a mistake as far as I know from the history records.
But I have to say all the prophets are not mere average humans, they are the best of the best from the obedience point of view, that is why they were personally select by Allah to deliver His messages and warnings to all of us over generations and generations, Allah clearly praised all His prophets as a group of exceptional humans to spread His messages and be an example to all of us, let?s see what Allah said about prophet Noah
Noah was chosen personally by Allah
Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,-
(33)
Noah was guided by Allah
We gave him Isaac and Jacob all (three) guided and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron thus do We reward those who do good
(84)
There was no error in Noah
He said O my people! there is no error in me, but I am an messenger from the Lord of the worlds.
(61)
Noah was a grateful servant
The offspring of those whom We bore with Nuh; surely he was a grateful servant.
(3)
Allah made a covenant with Noah
And when We made a covenant with the prophets and with you, and with Nuh and Ibrahim and Musa and Isa, son of Marium, and We made with them a strong covenant
(7)
To be continued?.
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Despite Noah?s great qualities, his people mocked him, so he mocked them back
38- And he began to make the ark; and whenever the chiefs from among his people passed by him they laughed at him. He said If you laugh at us, surely we too laugh at you as you laugh (at us).
39- So shall you know who it is on whom will come a chastisement which will disgrace him, and on whom will lasting chastisement come down.
(3
(39)-> See, Noah did not only laugh at them as they laughed at him, but he even threaten them with chastisement, and not just that, he even said that this chastisement will DISGRACE THEM? shall you know who it is on whom will come a chastisement which will disgrace him, and on whom will lasting chastisement come down?
When Noah had enough from his stupid people, he asked Allah to DESTROY them
26- And Nuh said My Lord! leave not upon the land any dweller from among the unbelievers
27- For surely if Thou leave them they will lead astray Thy servants, and will not beget any but immoral, ungrateful (children)
28- My Lord! forgive me and my parents and him who enters my house believing, and the believing men and the believing women; and do not increase the unjust in aught but destruction!
(26)
(27)
(2-> What a curse that was
A) ?My Lord! leave not upon the land any dweller from among the unbelievers?
B) ?surely if Thou leave them they will lead astray Thy servants?
C) ? and will not beget any but immoral, ungrateful (children)?
D) ? and do not increase the unjust in aught but destruction!?Well, did Allah say to him that he was wrong and he should be peaceful and should not curse them?
Allah granting the wish of Noah to destroy his people
118- Therefor judge Thou between us, a (conclusive) judgment, and save me and those believers who are with me.
119- And We saved him and those with him in the laden ship
120- Then We drowned the rest afterwards
(11
(119)
(120)75- And Nuh did certainly call upon Us, and most excellent answerer of prayer are We.
76- And We delivered him and his followers from the mighty distress.(75)
(76)From all the above, it is a sacred duty to defend against the ones who promote non sense against Allah, and surely Allah will support those sincere believers like Noah even if those believers cursed the enemies of Allah who only took their ego and their pride as their man made gods
mocking people doesn't accomplish much.
It depends
If you mean the ones who started the mocking for no reason, then I agree with you
But if it is by the ones who has been mocked and it is in response to it, then it is justified, as well it achieves one important thing the least, it will be a deterrent to those who started the mocking so they try not to do it again, and to achieve that, the reply must be more mocking by the victim so the perpetrator realize the important lesson ?NOT TO MOCK OTHERS?.
I guess that explains why most of his people died in a flood.
Not really, they were arrogant and only listened to their man made gods, even after the word of truth were told to them, you will see many like them on this very board so nothing starnge really, they insisted on their arrogance for 950 years, how long more you reckon Allah should have waited for them? well, you should know that Allah knew in advance that a small number will follow the truth delivered by Noah so the curse by Noah and the grant for it were very well deserved
Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family-- except those against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe. And there believed not with him but a few.
(40)
Salam
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A) ?My Lord! leave not upon the land any dweller from among the unbelievers?
peace Ahmed,
i pretty much agree with you, except i don't think that is a curse. I don't think he's asking God to kill all believers, but maybe to convert them all into believers?But if it is by the ones who has been mocked and it is in response to it, then it is justified, as well it achieves one important thing the least, it will be a deterrent to those who started the mocking so they try not to do it again, and to achieve that, the reply must be more mocking by the victim so the perpetrator realize the important lesson ?NOT TO MOCK OTHERS?.
And I disagree with that. I think mocking in response to mocking will only lead to more mocking until both sides forget what they were mocking each other for and just dislike each other because of the mocking. Martin Luther King Jr.(the leader of the "civil rights movement" in the US), knew better. He used non-violent protests. Never attacking the opposition no matter what. He gave the white racists no excuse to hate him, and more reasons to admire him.
"an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"--Gandhi (i think). -
In the same post of mine that you quoted I said directly and with clear words that my definition of murder excludes things like self defence and that this is also the definition of al qur'?n.
Dear Leyla,
That was not the my initial contention. I said quran prescribes war. And you said no where it does as a general statement.
And I have shown that it does. But you could have easily said that this war is war of self-defence.One individual killing another individual is still Death! "Self-defence" is a way of coming to terms with an individual taking life of another individual.
Please go back to the post, read the full post and see for yourself!
That can?t be so difficult!
Thanks!Please there is no need to be angry. Go and read what you have asked of me and what I provided to you.
Why does it surprise you that Allah?s concepts are human?
Because it comes from the application of God-given human reason. Because it is an innate instict of survival. That is why it is so human.
Yes, it is a concept for humans.
It is a human concept.
God has nothing from our devotions, he doesn?t need it.
Oh yes he does. He needs to be worshipped. Read Quran.
We need His d?n.
We need his love and compassion.
Regards,
Shalom, Salam, Shantih dear Leyla... D
Regards,
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Oh yes he does. He needs to be worshipped. Read Quran.
No He does not, can you show me where in the Quran that it says Allah NEEDS our worshipping?
We need his love and compassion.
only if we deserve it
Regards
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Salaam all,
Perhaps what LoteTree meant was this ayat?
Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insa illa liya' budooni
I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to serve Me.Well, this ayat mentions "serve" though, not "worship"
=adley=
Peace
even if it will be translated as worship and not serve, does the verse say that Allah NEEDS that worshipping?
Regards