Verse 17:36 The New Idol???

KGB

Salaam Kestrel

Nice that you too join the discussion.

But still the discussion between you and idolfree is interesting. Grin
A discussion between a true believer (you) and a hell creature.
A discussion between a wiseman (you) and a hypocrite who hates Mohammad.
A discussion between an Aleem and a Zaleem

;D

unknownuser

Salaam Kestrel

Nice that you too join the discussion.

But still the discussion between you and idolfree is interesting. Grin
A discussion between a true believer (you) and a hell creature.
A discussion between a wiseman (you) and a hypocrite who hates Mohammad.
A discussion between an Aleem and a Zaleem

;D

wow

that was really tougher than saying the opinion is stupid

cheers

marie

Peace all,

I'mp not "the father of the grammar sibawayh" but I can see the logic inside the sentences in the Reading.

nisa-i almu/mineena = the wives of the believers (3359)

In 3359 almu/mineena has the same statute regarding nisa-i than al-AAalameen in 342

I hope you see the difference. almu/mineena speeks of the man believers, which makes wrong the translation of al3almeen as those who know (plural masculine) in 342, that doesn't make sense

Praise to the God, the creterion is inside the Reading.

thegod

kestrel wrote
what kGB said is correct

yes...he is right...aleem means knowledgeable! -)

aalimeen is derived from 'ilm'...and is the plural of aleem!

aalameen is derived from 'ilm'....but is not the plural of aleem!

so giving examples of 'aleem' when i am asking for aalameen does not help! -)

kestrel wrote
397 In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. And whoever enters it will be secure. And God is owed from mankind to make Pilgrimage to the Sanctuary, whoever can make a path to it. And whoever rejects, then God has no need of the worlds.

yes, 397 is going to be another task for them! -)

salaam -)

thegod

marie wrote
Praise to the God, the creterion is inside the Reading.

yes, the quran crushes falsehood! -)

u opted outta moderating certain sections? -)

peace!

marie

Salam thegod

u opted outta moderating certain sections? -)

I'm limited in time, this is why I asked Layth to leave this mission for another person who is more available than me.
I suggest brother Ahmad Bahgat to be the fourth moderator.

PS
I remain a member of this forum

Peace

unknownuser

Peace Marie... Your baby is beautiful,and very cute...just like my little boy. sun

unknownuser

Salam thegod

u opted outta moderating certain sections? -)

I'm limited in time, this is why I asked Layth to leave this mission for another person who is more available than me.
I suggest brother Ahmad Bahgat to be the fourth moderator.

PS
I remain a member of this forum

Peace

Thank you Marie

it is enough honor to me that you hardly know me yet put your trust on me, thanks again

cheers

marie

Peace Marie... Your baby is beautiful,and very cute...just like my little boy. sun

Thanks for your nice word.

Peace and best wishes

thegod

marie wrote
I suggest brother Ahmad Bahgat to be the fourth moderator.

yeah...cool! would like like to be replaced by like somebody who believes by the quran! -)

marie wrote
I remain a member of this forum

cool! -)

almarh0m

Salam Fellow Believers

Alhamdulillah , what more Can I say about The Knleledge and Wisdom of the Believers in this Forum ? To the Learned Brothers and sisters who contributed to this Topic .........My heartfelt Thanks to you all and May Allah Bless you and Increase you in Knoledge and Wisdom .

Certainly , there have been some major 'Surprises' that came out of this Topic For me anyway , that I have never encountered before and I'd like to share these 'Surprises' with fellow Believers in this Forum . These are the 2 Major ones
1). That , GOD Apparently,Created an Omni-Scient Being among the Human ???. Or is it just an Empty Claim to Know just about everything ? Yet failed to answer the 5 Questions asked in Respect of Verification ? I hope to GOD that We won't be Required to Have a PhD in Every Discipline in Order to be Muslims/ Believers .

2). Totally Shocked That , Some Brothers have authorised Themselves To Alter GOD's Word from The Qur?n to suit Themselves . e.g changing Aalamin into 'Aleemen' . As far as I know , Not even The Prophets / Messengers of GOD were Ever Given this Authority to do so ............Do these people think of themselves as Greater messengers than the Messengers of God ?

Once again , my Sincere Thanks to all Believers who participated in this Discussion .

" Fii maq'adi shidqin ?nda maliikin muqtadir "

Peace
almarhom

" He who Created me , It is he Who Guide me "

Fahad1

Misinterpretation of 17/36

http//thequran.wordpress.com/2006/12/22/misinterpretation-of-1736/

Chapter 17/36 And do not uphold that of which there is no knowledge for you. Surely, the hearing, the sight and the heart, all of these shall be questioned about it.

17/36 is usually misinterpreted by some ?Quranists?. According to them this verse is forbidding them to believe in the verses of Al-Quran, until they see it happen. For example, they try to justify thier rejection of events like the virginbirth of Jesus son of Mary, or the splitting of the sea in Moses? story etc, saying ?we won?t believe it until we see it. We do not have knowledge about those events and we are forbidden to uphold anything without any knowledge?!

Without any knowledge?! Is Al-Quran without ANY knowledge??!!

No, according to 1114, Al-Quran is decended with the knowledge of Allah i.e THE Knowledge.

Chapter 11/14 And if they do not respond to you, then know that surely it is sent down with the ilm-illah/knowledge of Allah (i.e al-ilm/THE knowledge), and surely their is no god except Him. So will you be those who submit?

So 17/36 is talking about not upholding the things outside Al-Quran for which we have no knowledge. It is not about the things and events mentioned in Al-Quran, which are backed by the knowledge of Allah.

unknownuser

So 17/36 is talking about not upholding the things outside Al-Quran for which we have no knowledge. It is not about the things and events mentioned in Al-Quran, which are backed by the knowledge of Allah.

Nice!

Bismi Allahi alrrahmani alrraheemi

Alif-lam-meem
Thalika alkitabu la rayba feehi hudan lilmuttaqeena

22 This is the Scripture in which there is no doubt, a guide for the righteous.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Fahad,

Certainly you can find alternative words to express your opinion, please refrain from cursing, be it explcit or *****.

Thank you for returning to peaceful character.

Fahad1

Peace be upon you Fahad,

Certainly you can find alternative words to express your opinion, please refrain from cursing, be it explcit or *****.

Thank you for returning to peaceful character.

Peace be upon you Idolfree.

Any specific reason that I should use alternative words and refrain from "cursing"?

Thanks.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Fahad,

Yes, there is a specific reason, rule number three of the forum rules which reads..

3] Respect other users of the forum. Language and/or material of vulgarity, obscenity, harassment, profanity or insulting nature, whether it is direct or suggested, will NOT be tolerated. Any messages containing such language or material will be moved to the trash section or deleted, without notice and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.

Fahad1

Peace be upon you Fahad,

Yes, there is a specific reason, rule number three of the forum rules which reads..

3] Respect other users of the forum. Language and/or material of vulgarity, obscenity, harassment, profanity or insulting nature, whether it is direct or suggested, will NOT be tolerated. Any messages containing such language or material will be moved to the trash section or deleted, without notice and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.

Good. At least my posts made you read the rules.

So is it OK to insult the Al-Quran, but NOT OK to insult the member who is insulting Al-Quran. Or is there a rule about not insulting the Quran as well? Rule#2?
If you scroll down on the rules page, you can find rule#8. Did you read it as well? No? Here

8] When posting a reply to a thread, stay on topic. On occasions this may be allowed, but if there is an ongoing debate or discussion in a thread, then any post which deviates from the topic will be removed WITHOUT notice in the interest of the debate.

Why do you allow the topics to deviate all the time? Why don't you delete the posts that cause the discussion to go off-topic, as the rule#8 suggests? Do you yourself stick to the rules? Or are these rules there only to keep the believers of the Quran in check?

Why didn't you delete the off-topic post that started it all?

jonny_k

Peace all,
However you may translate 37 it cannot mean that the mutashaabihah verses' meaning would remain with GOD only since GOD made the Quran for mankind and it makes absoutely no sense to reveal a book in human language in which there would be issues which would never become clear. If you trnaslate "only GOD knows their meaning", then it means in a particular time period. Hoever the other trans is just as much possible n infact i prefer it for that makes it clear that the knowledgable can understand them, not all at once but gradually. take 2130 as an eg. It was definitely mutashaabihah for almost 1300 yrs and then it became muhkam. It is also possible that there be a swap meaning in one generation some verses have become mukam which were mutashaabihah befor AND VICE VERSA as well. Think abt tht one. GOD Bless!

Tay

Peace,

This thread is going nowhere and is now locked, and the dialogue between phoenix1 and fahad have been moved to the trash starting from page 8. If you guys want to continue the debate in a peaceful and respectful manner, you can start a new thread. Any questions/concerns, please pm myself or any of the mods/admins.

Peace,
Tay