what scientific evidence from the Quran was not known to the peers of its time?
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Peace all. I also noted some muslims claimed the 'hadith' were scientifically accurate as well...Especially the ones about embryology,honey,dates, etc...
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peace Tay,
i agree.
I think that what people think are scientific facts aren't really scientific facts at all. Those verses are meant for teaching us a lesson. The quran is not a science text book, it's meant for guidance.
We learn nothing from random (and unclearly stated, incomplete) scientific information. Especially if that information isn't going to be information until a few centuries from now. Doesn't make sense to me.
A good example is mountains. Kyle suggested in a thread that mountains symbolize government because they stabilize.
If we take verse to mean literal mountains acting as pillars, then it doesn't make sense because mountains don't really stabalize anything, nor do they support anything. -
Peace all. In fact some christians also claim the bible contains scientific accuracies as well...Go figure...Im sure other religious groups also make claims about their own books/systems....The crunch would be if they let their claims be critically evaluated... o
I would understand these religions more if they just stated their books were an 'attempt' to codify reality/truth in that particular time/era,and contained some wisdom,and some inaccuracies because of their human origin... bravo yay -
peace all,
INTEGRATION OF THE PRE-ISLAMIC SCIENCES
As Islam spread northward into Syria, Egypt, and the Persian empire, IT CAME FACE TO FACE WITH THE SCIENCES OF ANTIQUITY whose heritage had been preserved in centers which now became a part of the Islamic world. ALEXANDRIA HAD BEEN A MAJOR CENTER OF SCIENCES AND LEARNING FOR CENTURIES. The Greek leaming cultivated in Alexandria was opposed by the Byzantines who had burned its library long before the advent of Islam. The tradition of Alexandrian learning did not die, however. It was transferred to Antioch and from there farther east to such cities as Edessa by eastern Christians who stood in sharp opposition to Byzantium and wished to have their own independent centers of learning. Moreover, the Persian king, Shapur I, had established Jundishapur in Persia as a second great center of learning matching Antioch. He even invited Indian physicians and mathematicians to teach in this major seat of learning, in addition to the Christian scholars who taught in Syriac as well as the Persians whose medium of instruction was Pahlavi.
Once Muslims established the new Islamic order during the Umayyad period, THEY TURNED THEIR ATTENTION TO THESE CENTERS OF LEARNING which had been preserved and sought to acquaint themselves with the knowledge taught and cultivated in them. THEY THEREFORE SET ABOUT WITH A CONCERTED EFFORT TO TRANSLATE THE PHILOSOPHICAL AND SCIENTIFIC WORKS which were available to them from not only GREEK AND SYRIAC (which was the language of eastern Christian scholars) but also from Pahlavi, the scholarly language of pre-Islamic Persia, and EVEN FROM SANSKRIT. Many of the accomplished translators were Christian Arabs such as Hunayn ibn Ishaq, who was also an outstanding physician, and others Persians such as Ibn Muqaffa', WHO PLAYED A MAJOR ROLE IN THE CREATION OF THE NEW ARABIC PROSE STYLE CONDUCIVE TO THE EXPRESSION OF PHILOSOPHICAL AND SCIENTIFIC WRITINGS. The great movement of translation lasted from THE BEGINNING OF THE 8TH TO THE END OF THE 9TH CENTURY, reaching its peak with the establishment of the House of Wisdom (Bayt alhikmah) by the caliph al-Ma'mun at the beginning of the 9th century.
The result of this extensive effort of the Islamic community TO CONFRONT THE CHALLENGE OF THE PRESENCE OF THE VARIOUS PHILOSOPHIES AND SCIENCES OF ANTIQUITY AND TO UNDERSTAND AND DIGEST THEM IN ITS OWN TERMS AND ACCORDING TO ITS OWN WORLD VIEW WAS THE TRANSLATION OF A VAST CORPUS OF WRITINGS INTO ARABIC. MOST OF THE IMPORTANT PHILOSOPHICAL AND SCIENTIFIC WORKS OF ARISTOTLE AND HIS SCHOOL, MUCH OF PLATO AND THE PYTHAGOREAN SCHOOL, AND THE MAJOR WORKS OF GREEK ASTRONOMY, MATHEMATICS AND MEDICINE SUCH AS THE ALMAGEST OF PTOLEMY, THE ELEMENTS OF EUCLID, AND THE WORKS OF HIPPOCRATES AND GALEN, WERE ALL RENDERED INTO ARABIC. Furthermore, IMPORTANT WORKS OF ASTRONOMY, MATHEMATICS AND MEDICINE WERE TRANSLATED FROM PAHLAVI AND SANSKRIT. As a result, ARABIC BECAME THE MOST IMPORTANT SCIENTIFIC LANGUAGE OF THE WORLD FOR MANY CENTURIES and THE DEPOSITORY OF MUCH OF THE WISDOM AND THE SCIENCES OF ANTIQUITY.
The Muslims did not translate the scientific and philosophical works of other civilizations out of fear of political or economic domination but because the structure of Islam itself is based upon the primacy of knowledge. Nor did they consider these forms of knowing as "un-lslamic" as long as they confirmed the doctrine of God's Oneness which Islam considers to have been at the heart of every authentic revelation from God. ONCE THESE SCIENCES AND PHILOSOPHIES CONFIRMED THE PRINCIPLE OF ONENESS, THE MUSLIMS CONSIDERED THEM AS THEIR OWN. THEY MADE THEM PART OF THEIR WORLD VIEW and began to cultivate THE ISLAMIC SCIENCES BASED ON WHAT THEY HAD TRANSLATED, ANALYZED, CRITICIZED, AND ASSIMILATED, rejecting WHAT WAS NOT IN CONFORMITY WITH THE ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVEpeace.
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Peace enquirer,
Is there any wisdom in the quran that is not present in other books/elsewhere?
I really could not answer that question since
• I would not be so bold as to claim I've grasped all the wisdom that the Qur'an offers (and if I ever do, please smack me)
• I would not be so bold to claim that I've grasped all the wisdom in all other books/elsewhere
Is there any objective proof of the qurans validity?
I don't know. I've always followed my inner compass in my search for al-haqq. I think truly objective proof of just about anything is impossible, since the entire universe itself is subjective, or "omni-jective".
Peace,
Tay -
Peace tay and all. I respect your answers,methods,and humbleness...
If i re-word my questions a little,...can our inner compass guide us without the need for the quran specifically? Ie can other scriptures/our experiences lead us to lead a peaceful,decent,moral,responsible life?...?
Is any knowledge that we have even 'relatively' objective...? Ie the fact we need food to survive,is pretty objective... -
Peace all.I would appreciate if anyone else could also shed some light on the two questions i posed to tay,the re-worded questions i asked tay as well...Thank you...
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peace enquirer,
enquirer- Is there any wisdom in the quran that is not present in other books/elsewhere?
- Naught is said to you but what was said indeed to the messengers before you; surely your Lord is the Lord of forgiveness and the Lord of painful retribution.
by this verse I also understand that if any scientific facts were revealed to the prophet, then surely those scientific facts would have also been revealed to all the messengers before him.
please check this link.
http//integralscience.org/einsteinbuddha/peace.
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Peace agentxxx. Thanks for that link...Very interesting....I always thought that buddha,of all the religious founders,was the most clever...The guy was a genius...
I would like others to comment on what agentxxxs' excellent findings mean,in relation to this current debate.... -
Peace enquirer,
I respect your answers,methods,and humbleness
Likewise
can our inner compass guide us without the need for the quran specifically Ie can other scriptures/our experiences lead us to lead a peaceful,decent,moral,responsible life?...?
Yes.
Is any knowledge that we have even 'relatively' objective...? Ie the fact we need food to survive,is pretty objective...
Yes. For the "hands-on" experience of this life, there are certainly objective truths, ie, cells require nourishment for survival, apples fall down instead of up, etc. Regarding spirituality, however, it is strictly subjective, and this has larger implications than what this thread encompasses. To sum it up, we are "one".
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay. Beautifully expressed...Agree with you fully... bravo yay
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Peace Tay. Why dont you start a new thread relating to the implications of your last post.(if you wish. ))....I think it would be very interesting and hopefully beneficial... bravo yay
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EnquirerIs there any wisdom in the quran that is not present in other books/elsewhere?
I believe fragments of wisdom are present from many sources in human thought. However, one single source of absolute wisdom - which is what i believe al-quraan is - is nowhere present except for al-quraan.
Is there any objective proof of the qurans validity?
There is, but it'll be too late for those who rejected it after al-haqq comes to them (note im not saying al-haqq or ultimate truth/Allah Himself came to anyone, that's not for me to say.)
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Peace enquirer,
Beautifully expressed...Agree with you fully...
sun
Why dont you start a new thread relating to the implications of your last post.(if you wish. )....I think it would be very interesting and hopefully beneficial...
Interesting, yes. But it would only be beneficial if the structure is coherent. As of now, in my mind, it's bits and pieces that all make sense, but require further study to formulate a cogent argument. In the meantime, perhaps you can add your feedback to the following thread and we can examine these bits and pieces...
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=3500.msg44047#msg44047
Peace,
Tay -
the tagline says it all. People keep saying that there is scientific facts to be found in the Quran, not known to its time. Lets take a look at this, because i disagree entirely. ALL science found in Quran was known to man, and societys a long time before.
Peace
While I'm not a fan of the quranic scientific miracles, i would like to see how you can prove what you said above
The Quran told us more than 1400 ago about the internal waves and the darkness of the deep sea, here is my evidence
Or are like the darkness of a fathomless sea which is covered by waves above which are waves above which are clouds, layers of darkness, one upon the other. If he puts out his hand, he can scarcely see it. Those Allah gives no light to, they have no light.
Now the onus is on you to prove to us beyond doubt that these two pieces of scientific information mentioned in the Quran were known prior to more than 1400 years ago "clearly the two facts are understood literally from the verse, no twisting no games"
back to you, btw the argument by that Dr that a sailor told Mohammad about it can't be admissable until you prove it
cheers
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Peace,
Ok, Magi, then go refute this article
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5580.0
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Peace all. Im not directing this comment to anyone in particular,but if a person is already convinced/has faith in the quran as allahs infallible book,then if any new and proven science comes along that 'contradicts' the quran,would they then admit a mistake in the quran........?,Or would they say science is 'fallible' anyway.....?
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Peace all
Ahmed chose to direct his comment to enquirer
Hello enquirer
Yeh if you can prove it beyond doubt I will concede that the Quran is fake
deal?
but only if there will be judges and rules and I have to make the rules with you
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Peace arnoldayasin. You asked magi to refute the link you gave...
Is there any science that contradicts the quran...? If there is,do you mind refuting this science with reality...?
Peace all. ps; AB; good question to magi....I will post a reply when i get time...Take it easy...PPS; ok,we will talk about a debate later....i assume you have a lot of travelling and such like at the moment,so when you come back...Is that ok? -
Salm enq
yeh after I come back for sure thanks for the understanding, i will be back on the 7th inshaallah
salam