The holy valley of Tawa
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Peace,
This is directly what i mean. You don't understand that taking of the shoes in a masjid has to do wth not taking dirt into the masjid or a house. The 'showing respect' is showing respect for not wanting to dirty up the floor where people put there fore-heads on the floor, so the respect is linked with hygene. Everything has a direct reason. And i advise you to investigate more what are the psychological reasons for terms as 'respect' and 'holy'. That a kids takes it as respect is because a kid doesn't look further then it's nose and doesn't think where the feeling of respect comes from. You tell me Why is taking of your shoes/sandals out of respect? And when is respect given and what is it's source and function? There are bases behind the term respect. And there as much people wearing sandals/shoes as not wearing shoes/sandals which a lot of times is also connected with social wealth.
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Peace,
This is directly what i mean. You don't understand that taking of the shoes in a masjid has to do wth not taking dirt into the masjid or a house. The 'showing respect' is showing respect for not wanting to dirty up the floor where people put there fore-heads on the floor, so the respect is linked with hygene. Everything has a direct reason. And i advise you to investigate more what are the psychological reasons for terms as 'respect' and 'holy'. That a kids takes it as respect is because a kid doesn't look further then it's nose and doesn't think where the feeling of respect comes from. You tell me Why is taking of your shoes/sandals out of respect? And when is respect given and what is it's source and function? There are bases behind the term respect. And there as much people wearing sandals/shoes as not wearing shoes/sandals which a lot of times is also connected with social wealth.
bro don't assume things and associate them to me as you do with the metaphores that you associate to Allah and He never said that it is a metaphore as as well warned you agaisnts such ignorant act , i never denied what you say regarding the dirty shoe, all I said it is a matter of respect to take the shoe in a mosque as well on the valley of Towa, but let me corner you then, how the hell you know the the foot is clean if you say the shoes must not be clean?, i need a scientific answer please
cheers
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Peace,
On what is this respect based? What are the reasons behind this respect? The respect people show by taking off shoes is based on respecting not to take outside dirt into the residence. Why would God demand a respect based on hygene? I believe all will agree that you take of your shoes so you don't take outside dirt into the house. Taking off your shoes/sandals refers to having reached your destination.
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Peace,
On what is this respect based? What are the reasons behind this respect? The respect people show by taking off shoes is based on respecting not to take outside dirt into the residence. Why would God demand a respect based on hygene? I believe all will agree that you take of your shoes so you don't take outside dirt into the house. Taking off your shoes/sandals refers to having reached your destination.
bro, before i go to bed, remember this, it is you who is not happy with what Allah said to Moses then you made up a metaphore and associated it to Allah while He never suggested that, how blind you are man, anyway bro this is called kufr
good night
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Peace,
Not happy? No, i'm trying to understand it. This is called gaining knowledge. Answer my questions then. Sleep well...
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Peace,
Not happy? No, i'm trying to understand it. This is called gaining knowledge. Answer my questions then. Sleep well...
fine, gain the knoweldge you want but in the process don't associate lias to Allah, Allah described those who associate metaohores to Him while He never said so, as liars and I'm certain this applies to you. i understand that you don't do it delibertly rather ignorantly
cheers
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Peace,
You have your right on your opinion. And i can see you ignore certain factors. Sleep well...
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Peace
The idea of taking off shoes out of a sign of respect is cultural. For example, here in the U.S. nobody takes off their shoes when they enter someone's house. The home owners don't even take off their shoes. In fact, when I ask someone to please take off their shoes before proceeding to enter my home, they look at me funny. So I think you're taking this coming from the culture you were raised in. When God commands Moses to take off his sandals, I believe it is directly linked with the word holy in the same aya. And dirt by the way is not bad. If we don't have water to wash ourselves we can use dirt for ablution.
Also, if we are to take the translation idolfree1 gave us for the word tuwa as wrapped within, perhaps it is symbolic to take off something. We wear clothes and shoes as a sort of crutch. To cover ourselves, to appear taller, shorter, thinner, fatter, muscular. Perhaps it has the connotation of "Come as you are". Moses felt inadequate in speech and seemed to have low self-esteem. He even told his Creator , "NO i can't do it! i need my brother he can speak better!" Perhaps it was a way to show you are accepted with any imperfection you may have. His hand turned white without any imperfection also ties into that explanation - that God will perfect him if any imperfections should arise. Again this is just my opinion. Most likely it has more of a link with the word holy than anything else.
I still didn't get an explanation to my question by the way. If it was just a spiritual journey why mention a valley?
Peace all -
A valley is between to high points, and is hidden between those points, but i also still need to understand more. And also 'holy' is determined by the viewer. For a christian, a statue of jesus is holy, for a Muslim it is not. So holy is also determined by the view point.
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Peace bro arnold
I like the connotation of the valley you mentioned. It shows alot of symbolism. My question to you then is why can't God with all His infinite wisdom, create stories with layer upon layer of meaning? Could it be that the holy valley is both physical and at the same time symbolic, while also being allegorical to parallel his spiritual journey? I tend to believe that things mentioned in the quran have more than one explanation. For the simple person, it will convey a message and for a deep introspector, it would have a deeper meaning but still along the same lines.
As for the term holy, I agree with you. What is holy to one may not be holy to another. But given that neither a Christian nor a Muslim said that line, and that it was God that stated it, I believe the valley is objectively holy. Whether we believe in it or not it will remian holy.
Peace all -
Peace,
Yes, i have the same view on the Quran, that it has multiple layers and that verses can mean multiple things. As for the 'holy' in this verse. I believe it was called holy because of what was gonna happen there, so for that moment it was holy for the whole humanity.
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Peace
As for the 'holy' in this verse. I believe it was called holy because of what was gonna happen there, so for that moment it was holy for the whole humanity.
I agree. Good explanation
Peace -
Salaams all,
Using quranic dictionary by Omar
Naala = a metaphorical expression for making the heart vacant from care for family and property. The shoes signify the relations with family and the community.
And remember he ran away after taking a life, so essentially two things where keeping him away from his people
2012
Verily I am your Lord make yourself detached from responsibility and from compensation due for life the sacred both. -
Peace Simple
I never heard of this definition. The dictionary i used only shows that it means sandal or a leather sole. the root form of the word is nun ayn lam if that helps
Peace all -
Peace,
You have your right on your opinion. And i can see you ignore certain factors. Sleep well...
Salam
I'm glad that my opinion is nothing but the literal meaning of the Quran, at least on the JD when I'm questioned about my ego, i will have a strong argument and as you know Allah is 100% Just, my argument is simply Allah didn't say it is a metaphore like He has done with many other metaphores He mentioned in the Quran, as well Allah has warned me of the followings
- To say about Allah things that He never said about Himself (4035)
- To associate metaphores to Allah that He never mentioned Himself (1674)
see how strong my defence will be
on the other hand, I can see you on the JD red faced and very embarassed indeed
therefore you need to respond to at least 1674 before i listen to your non sense regarding the lies you say about Allah
cheers
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Peace AB
I may be wrong but doesn't 1674 mean Do not make metaphors about God?
fala tadrebo lellah el amthaala enn allaha ya3lamo w antom la ta3lamoon
In other words don't say something like God is like an old wise man (aootho bellah)
Or did I mistranslate? -
Peace Ahmed, All,
First, I hope your trip was enjoyable.
You quoted 1674 but did not quote 1673. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the 2 ayat connected?
Transliteration Fala tadriboo lillahi al-amthala inna Allaha yaAAlamu waantum la taAAlamoona
Literal So do not give the examples/proverbs to God, that God knows and you do not know.
Free-Minds So do not give parables to God. God knows while you do not know.
Rashad Khalifa Therefore, do not cite the examples for GOD; GOD knows while you do not know.
Yusuf Ali Invent not similitudes for Allah for Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
Shakir Therefore do not give likenesses to Allah; surely Allah knows and you do not know.
Pickthal So coin not similitudes for Allah. Lo! Allah knoweth; ye know not.
Arberry So strike not any similitudes for God; surely God knows, and you know not.If this is the case, then the context of 1673 is vital to understanding 1674.
1673 And they serve besides God that which does not and cannot possess anything of the provisions from the sky or the land.
In conclusion, it seems that God is warning people not to make metaphors or similitudes in describing God. It doesn't seem to say that we are not to take any ayat metaphorically.
Peace,
Tay -
welcome back AB
thank you bro
glad to be back to this great board
peace