Translation of `Jinn`
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Here is another problem for them
39- Said an 'Ifrit, of the Jinns "I will bring it to thee before thou rise from thy council indeed I have full strength for the purpose, and may be trusted."
40- Said one who had knowledge of the Book "I will bring it to thee within the twinkling of an eye!" Then when (Solomon) saw it placed firmly before him, he said "This is by the Grace of my Lord!- to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful! and if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, truly my Lord is Free of all Needs, Supreme in Honour !"
(39)
(40)-> We read in 2739 ?Ifrit of the Jinns?, now the advocates of new illogical understanding need to explain to us what is ?Ifrit of the Jinn?? is it a title of the Human Leaders?, if they somehow mange to solve that, then they will be cornered with this one, why that Ifrit of the human leaders can bring the Queen of Sheba throne in a matter of seconds from miles away? ? Said an 'Ifrit, of the Jinns "I will bring it to thee before thou rise from thy council indeed I have full strength for the purpose, and may be trusted.?
-> And just to make it harder for those advocates, let me ask them this question whom verse 2740 is talking about?, is it another Ifrit of the human leader who will bring the throne in shorter time than the first Ifrit of the human leaders? If No, then whom is it? and regardless if No or Yes how that entity will being the throne ion shorter time than the first Ifrit of the Jinns ? Said one who had knowledge of the Book "I will bring it to thee within the twinkling of an eye!", , don?t ever dare anyone and say this is a metaphor, because the throne was brought for real ?Then when (Solomon) saw it placed firmly before him, , he said "This is by the Grace of my Lord!- to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful! and if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, truly my Lord is Free of all Needs, Supreme in Honour !?
If you are sick of clicking here, then Click here mister smart
To be continued?..
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2130 Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?
Awa lam yara allatheena kafaroo anna alssamawati waal-arda kanata ratqan fafataqnahuma wajaAAalna mina alma-i kulla shay-in hayyin afala yu/minoona
If you believe that "jinn" are living things then 2130 means they must be made of water. This is a bald fact. An inescapable reality.
Very good point !
Peace,
Despite the exchanges above, I wanted to raise this to drive home the point that "jinn" are not mysterious invisible mythical beings.
1527 does not give license to create a new kind of unseen type of being.
The fact that ALL (kulli shay) LIVING (hay) things are made of water does not contradict our being made from clay - because it does not say ONLY from clay.
The point is that all things that LIVE and are MADE are from water - or contain water as part of their makeup.
The real contradictions are when people themselves CREATE a new type of being they call a "jinn" despite the fact that the reading mentions many instances of INTERACTION between these alleged separate creatures and those who believe in these invisible mythical "jinn" cannot demonstrate any such INTERACTION given their viewpoint.
The truth can only be that human and jinn are within the one and the same thing - and that in some cases the 'jinn' describes a hidden inner quality of humans and in others it describes a quality of humans as we don't perceive easily (foreign people, distinguished people etc).
2130 leaves no room for a new mythical invisible being type. If it lives and is made (note that God "lives" but is not made) then it must be from water. A fact which is fully supported by science.
Regards.
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peace ahmed
Actually it's only JM that's advocating the 'human leaders' argument ( to my knowledge ) most others believe jinns to be allegorical for the hidden/dark side of man.
Are our primal urges innate or result of the choices we make?
I believe in the choices we make. I believe in accountability. And I choose not to blame that on a hidden/evil side.
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Peace Oben,
But let's leave these analogies and examine our common reference point for evidence. I believe the following verse puts to rest any doubt and in one stroke demolishes all the past belief that there are mythical beings that traditionalist imaginations have created.
2130 Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?
Awa lam yara allatheena kafaroo anna alssamawati waal-arda kanata ratqan fafataqnahuma wajaAAalna mina alma-i kulla shay-in hayyin afala yu/minoona
If you believe that "jinn" are living things then 2130 means they must be made of water. This is a bald fact. An inescapable reality.
Therefore a "jinn" is not a separate type of mythical being. It is merely an aspect of us.
Thank you for your excellent observation. This is such an eye opener.
I had noticed that there is no mention in the great reading of "jinn" going to heaven while they are mentioned as going to hell. I have discussed this in the following article
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman2.htm
Your amazing observation reminded me of another passage 7216. It seems from the passage that the heaven of "jinn"/fantasies is that they would be given water. As you noted, water is connected to life. So perhaps the good "jinn"/fantasies would become living beings.
I would be very much interested in your thoughts about the above article.
Peace,
Ayman
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peace ahmed
Peace bro
Actually it's only JM that's advocating the 'human leaders' argument ( to my knowledge ) most others believe jinns to be allegorical for the hidden/dark side of man.
well, it can be directed to the others as well, it is directed to those non sense advocates
Are our primal urges innate or result of the choices we make?
I don't really care about the poll
I believe in the choices we make. I believe in accountability. And I choose not to blame that on a hidden/evil side.
Nice try, you can't blame it on the Jinn, the Quran told you that, or you donlt know that?
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peace Ahmed,
by posting all those verses above you have proven that your literal understandings don't make any sense.
well at least show the others some resepect and explain to them why?
but hey, who said the Jinn as I understand it, is the lieteral understanding?, haha, thanks for the laugh
it is you and the likes of you who are trying hard to make it literal by saying it means the hidden
please look in the mirror before you accuse others wrongly
Saddam IS NOT made of smokeless fire.
Prove it
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Peace Oben, All,
As jm and Ayman expressed, excellent point in 2130. Further, you stated
The fact that ALL (kulli shay) LIVING (hay) things are made of water does not contradict our being made from clay - because it does not say ONLY from clay.
Just an observation clay/soil are understood to contain water/moisture.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Oben,
It seems I got muddled up in understanding your first quote from the next (underlined part). My appologies.
2130 Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?
If you believe that "jinn" are living things then 2130 means they must be made of water. This is a bald fact. An inescapable reality.
Despite the exchanges above, I wanted to raise this to drive home the point that "jinn" are not mysterious invisible mythical beings.
1527 does not give license to create a new kind of unseen type of being.
The fact that ALL (kulli shay) LIVING (hay) things are made of water does not contradict our being made from clay - because it does not say ONLY from clay.
The point is that all things that LIVE and are MADE are from water - or contain water as part of their makeup.
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I disagree about your erroneous conclusion about 'jinn' being able "to exit the atmosphere of Earth".
Look at
376 We have adorned the lowest heaven with adorning planets.*
377 We guarded it from every evil devil.
378 They cannot spy on the High Society; they get bombarded from every side.
379 They have been condemned; they have incurred an eternal retribution.
3710 If any of them ventures to charge the outer limits, he gets struck with a fierce projectile.and...
5533 O you jinns and humans, if you can penetrate the outer limits of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and penetrate. You cannot penetrate without authorization.
5534 Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?
5535 You get bombarded with projectiles of fire and metal, and you cannot win.Notice that jinn and humans are mentioned together. The challenge is to penetrate the heavens - ie. leave the Earth's atmosphere which cannot be done. "Jinn" are human or an aspect of humans and the usages within the reading must be contextual; there doesn't seem to be a one meaning fits all for this particular concept.
Peace.
Yeah if jinn is methaphisic, why should human shall make them enemy ? How to kill and to beat them.
Many bros are trapped with dogmatisn
They think sky is sky
They think satan is jinn.In every verses Allah did never talk about unseen creatures, but men. The physical of men consist blood, flesh, nerves and bones. But mentally they may be angel, jinn, satan, musyreek, kafir, mu'meen, moslems, mukadzdzibin, ahl dzikr.
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Here is a tough one for those ?Hidden? ?Human Leader? meaning of Jinn advocates?
And they have invented a blood-relationship between Him and the Jinns but the Jinns know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)!
(15
-> Let?s summarize the questions for those smart advocates
- how the humans invented blood relation between Allah and the Hiddens / the Human leaders ?
- how the Hiddens / Human leaders ?know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)??
- and finally why the Ins were left out in 37158?
How about another click here mister smart?
Possibly, to be continued?..
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Here is a tough one for those Hidden Human Leader meaning of Jinn advocates
And they have invented a blood-relationship between Him and the Jinns but the Jinns know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)!
-> Lets summarize the questions for those smart advocates
- how the humans invented blood relation between Allah and the Hiddens / the Human leaders ?
- how the Hiddens / Human leaders know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)?
- and finally why the Ins were left out in 37158?
How about another click here mister smart?
Possibly, to be continued..
Ahmed,
Firstly your attitude to frame this as a win-lose type argument is very tired. Prior to your arrival this forum only rarely had individuals who took this approach to what should be discussion and debate. I think your previous experience with other win-lose type forums has influenced your behaviour here. If what you desire is to argue and fight in the style of a win-lose forum then there are plenty out there. Please join one of those and continue in the same style.
Otherwise, please spare us this type of confrontational attitude and the need to constantly remind you of this.
Coming to your "question". You'll notice that your position is actually self-refuting. You've refuted your own argument as is usual.
Look at the context
37149 Ask them if your Lord have daughters, while they have sons!
37150 Did we create the angels to be females? Did they witness that?
37151 Indeed, they grossly blaspheme when they say -
37152 "GOD has begotten a son." Indeed, they are liars.
37153 Did He choose the girls over the boys?
37154 What is wrong with your logic?
37155 Why do you not take heed?
37156 Do you have any proof?
37157 Show us your book, if you are truthful.
37158 They even invented a special relationship between Him and the jinns. The jinns themselves know that they are subservient.
37159 GOD be glorified; far above their claims.The prophet is being told to ask the people who are FABRICATING falsehoods the questions in that passage. The "they" in 37158 refers to the same type of people who in 37152 say "God has begotten a son". Note that that statement relates slanderously the God to a human being.
37158 is again relating to a type of human - in this context probably meaning the distinguished people or people in charge - as in the high priests having an alleged special relationship with God which we know from history occured many times and still occurs. It states immediately following it that even these "high priests" know they have absolutely no power and are mortal - that their own sense of importance cannot hold water and that they are in fact subservient to the God.
How does understanding this as your mythical invisible being type that you hold to, help you in any way?
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Here is a tough one for those ?Hidden? ?Human Leader? meaning of Jinn advocates?
And they have invented a blood-relationship between Him and the Jinns but the Jinns know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)!
-> Let?s summarize the questions for those smart advocates
- how the humans invented blood relation between Allah and the Hiddens / the Human leaders ?
- how the Hiddens / Human leaders ?know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)??
- and finally why the Ins were left out in 37158?
How about another click here mister smart?
Possibly, to be continued?..
Ahmed,
Firstly your attitude to frame this as a win-lose type argument is very tired. Prior to your arrival this forum only rarely had individuals who took this approach to what should be discussion and debate. I think your previous experience with other win-lose type forums has influenced your behaviour here. If what you desire is to argue and fight in the style of a win-lose forum then there are plenty out there. Please join one of those and continue in the same style.
Otherwise, please spare us this type of confrontational attitude and the need to constantly remind you of this.
I second that.
Coming to your "question". You'll notice that your position is actually self-refuting. You've refuted your own argument as is usual.
Look at the context
37149 Ask them if your Lord have daughters, while they have sons!
37150 Did we create the angels to be females? Did they witness that?
37151 Indeed, they grossly blaspheme when they say -
37152 "GOD has begotten a son." Indeed, they are liars.
37153 Did He choose the girls over the boys?
37154 What is wrong with your logic?
37155 Why do you not take heed?
37156 Do you have any proof?
37157 Show us your book, if you are truthful.
37158 They even invented a special relationship between Him and the jinns. The jinns themselves know that they are subservient.
37159 GOD be glorified; far above their claims.The prophet is being told to ask the people who are FABRICATING falsehoods the questions in that passage. The "they" in 37158 refers to the same type of people who in 37152 say "God has begotten a son". Note that that statement relates slanderously the God to a human being.
37158 is again relating to a type of human - in this context probably meaning the distinguished people or people in charge - as in the high priests having an alleged special relationship with God which we know from history occured many times and still occurs. It states immediately following it that even these "high priests" know they have absolutely no power and are mortal - that their own sense of importance cannot hold water and that they are in fact subservient to the God.
How does understanding this as your mythical invisible being type that you hold to, help you in any way?
100% agreed
See also http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4434.msg64036#msg64036
Peace
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See also http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4434.msg64036#msg64036
Peace
Peace /JM/,
Thank you for posting the link to your post which I think you could usefully have copied to this thread.
It has helped gel the understanding of many passages for me. A very healthy dose of demystification. Excellent.
Regards.
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Peace to you and welcome to the forum,
Salam
I think you are falling into the trap of conjectures, and that is not good (Allah through Quran says it it the ploy of the disbeliever).
Then how about the Angels, are they also humans?The actual conjecture is the creation in the minds of humans of mythical beings that relate to terms used in the reading.
If The God painstakingly described the Jinns and the Angels in the Quran, is it not enough as a proof of their existence...
The argument does not relate to "existence" which everyone is accepting of - it relates to the misconception of the word "jinn" as standing for a mythical type of being which owes more to the 1001 Arabian Nights and Arab mythology than to the reading.
Regards.
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Peace truth,
I would like also your contribution to my article;
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6089.0
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Peace
Sorry I don't understand, this is beyond my understanding, on the one hand The God talks to us about Ibliss who was of the Jinns, then you say he is in the mind of man and not real...
I like this saying "The devil's best ploy is to make you believe that he does not exist."
I am out of this.
Thank you
God bless
NabsterSee http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4398.msg62224#msg62224
Peace
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Ahmed,
Yes
Firstly your attitude to frame this as a win-lose type argument is very tired.
Of course it is, for both parties btw, however this is how I planned it to be
Prior to your arrival this forum only rarely had individuals who took this approach to what should be discussion and debate.
Here we go when confronted with strong arguments you start resorting to character attacks and defemation
Well no response to me other than using my left ear as an exit for the crap entered through the right ear
I think your previous experience with other win-lose type forums has influenced your behaviour here.
Now this started to make no sense, I?m a member on those type of win/loose forums as you call?m before I joined here, so how the hell it influenced my behaviour here?
If what you desire is to argue and fight in the style of a win-lose forum then there are plenty out there. Please join one of those and continue in the same style.
And please can you stop these sorts of crap and respond to the Quran verses I posted?
Otherwise, please spare us this type of confrontational attitude and the need to constantly remind you of this.
You can save yourself the reminders as I will continue to do what I do when it comes to those who manipulate the clear Arabic Quran verses, i confront them with the Quran mister Quran alone
Coming to your "question". You'll notice that your position is actually self-refuting. You've refuted your own argument as is usual.
Now you started to be professional and respond to the argument head on, ler?s see how I refuted my self AS USUAL
Look at the context
37149 Ask them if your Lord have daughters, while they have sons!
37150 Did we create the angels to be females? Did they witness that?
37151 Indeed, they grossly blaspheme when they say -
37152 "GOD has begotten a son." Indeed, they are liars.
37153 Did He choose the girls over the boys?
37154 What is wrong with your logic?
37155 Why do you not take heed?
37156 Do you have any proof?
37157 Show us your book, if you are truthful.
37158 They even invented a special relationship between Him and the jinns. The jinns themselves know that they are subservient.
37159 GOD be glorified; far above their claims.The prophet is being told to ask the people who are FABRICATING falsehoods the questions in that passage. The "they" in 37158 refers to the same type of people who in 37152 say "God has begotten a son". Note that that statement relates slanderously the God to a human being.
This is just nothing but load of non sense, 3158 is totally different context to the previous verses, absolutely no relationship however I may ask you, where in the verses that say the prophet been asked to ask the people who whatever??
37158 is again relating to a type of human ?
that is what you are manipulating, the verse never said so, it said THE JINNS mister, not the Ins, who are you trying to fool exactly?
I know, the fools
in this context probably meaning the distinguished people or people in charge - as in the high priests having an alleged special relationship with God which we know from history occured many times and still occurs.
I can see your confidence by using the word ?probably?, well probably means conjectures
It states immediately following it that even these "high priests" know they have absolutely no power and are mortal - that their own sense of importance cannot hold water and that they are in fact subservient to the God.
Well, let?s keep it as you said, ?Probably?
How does understanding this as your mythical invisible being type that you hold to, help you in any way?
It add no help but clearly shows me that the Quran is a book of non sense, however because humans are the ones who are claiming that non sense while Allah never suggested all these sorts of illogical and non sensible understandings, my faith in Allah words will never change because I will always take Allah words over the humans flawed words
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I second that.
I don't really get it, do you second defamation?
how about you two don't respond to mme again?
this is much easier than defaming another person or what do you think?