How can we better the debates?
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Peace zenje and all. Perfect story about the need for thinking about the things we do ritualistically or without due thought... bravo You have let the cat out of the bag...
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Peace m-mehdi and all. I didnt fully get your post,but you made me think about something to do with elitism...Many folks have a very fixed,frozen,black and white,emotional view of debates,and may find it exceedingly hard to adjust their 'academic' conditioned mentality and think outside the box....Or they are afraid of going beyond certain fixed concepts because of internal inertia/conditioning,which limits their questioning certain basic assumptions they have,such as the concept of one god...Just because a person has lots of so-called objective scientific evidence it doesnt mean they are necessarily onto the truth...Many folks will project their own conditioning and fantasies onto evidences and their own experiences in an effort to strengthen their own convictions/theories on subjective,contentious,unclear or disputed topics...Like zenjes story about the ritual cat,they write treatises,posts and reams of evidence for rituals and ideas which have no bearing on the real world,or how we should live practically...Complete seat of the pants theorising,made worse by the lack of adequate verification and irrational reinforcing of illusions/delusions...
They also try to refute or belittle attempts to think outside the box from anyone who disagrees with THEIR group assumptions and theories...Classic elitism...
I think the debates are fine,it gives me practice for the real world off-line,where the people can be even more illogical,unrealistic and dangerous...At least this place is safer than certain masjids and mosques to debate in... -
Peace Tay & Zein,
So basically, we are back where we started huh? Why bother eh
I loved the story, but I don't think I got the same moral out of it ;D
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Peace all. Why is it folks rarely can take constructive criticism,or take a long hard look at themselves...? The debates would be better without all the defensiveness,cheerleading,emotional baggage and implied self-righteousness...
And maybe we could lose the 'holy warrior' mentality in favour of discussing (not debating ceaselessly to strengthen our own convictions and theories.) our ideas,experiences and thoughts with a view to achieving practical progress and sharing potential new ideas...?
I dont hold my breath.... handshake -
Peace Mo,
Thank you for the clarification. The very first time I was involved with a message board (it was a music board so it didn't have the same theological debates.. but some real good ones anyway) that the thought that came to mind. To compile the threads I liked and even some I didn't and I started to compile them by saving them as text files. All was there the names, dates, discussions, arguments, and debates etc. A lil while ago, revisited those text files and printed them out. It was great to revisit some of those discussions and see how things have progressed since etc. So my suggestion is sincere.
One thing I enjoy about this site is that there are very intelligent folks here. Many seemed very 'schooled' or are in the process of being 'schooled' (in the form of a educational institution). This is nice, but it yields to one of the main ideas which most who are gathered here are gathered here to change. This is a sense of scholarly works which soley on the basis of it's proper style is used to be a form of right vs. non-proper style being deemed as wrong. This becomes a form of elitism which most who use 'non-proper' styles can understand and even discuss within the proper, yet I usualy find those who soley use the proper styles are lost when they are fronted with the 'non-proper'. So the weight of understanding is set on all to try and "come to know eachother again" (who said that??) without the need for rules of engagement.
peace.
Peace M_Mehdi,
I have taken good note of your critics.
But... Let's assume that, because of the recurrent bad behavior of a debater (like arrogance, faulty logic...), the debates get heated, and degenerates into insults... How would you handle that ?
Would you let it be, letting the forum becoming a boxing ring ?
Would only move to the trash section the posts with insults and ban the debaters, without tackling the real problem , ie the bad behavior ?What we are trying to do, is to explain that, by respecting some guidelines of good behavior, the debates can become more constructive, and more pleasant for each other...
So, why not ???
Peace
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Peace /JM/ ,
Thank you for your kind questions.
But... Let's assume that, because of the recurrent bad behavior of a debater (like arrogance, faulty logic...), the debates get heated, and degenerates into insults... How would you handle that ?
I would recognize that it takes two to tango (sort of say). Your question is poised towards only a single individual as you stated, "... behavior of a debater."
Let me make things clear it is an assumption ("let's assume".
It is difficult for a person to debate himself, meaning there must be another person who is contributing to the issue. It is incorrect to simply dismiss a person because of a stylistic difference. Meaning, in a argument or debate, if one person says, "You suck", even though it is not the idealistic proper style, we cannot simply dismiss this person and her sentiment because of the chosen style. She, after all, might be on a better path towards Truth.
So I would simply let the drama play out. Other members of the board are more than welcome to come in between and try and make peace or remind one another to tone it down, if it's of their choosing. I see this happening on a regular basis. I have full faith in the intelligence of the members here to be able to take care of themselves and be good custodians of this board.
If the problem continues, I would still allow for a good amount of venting to be done from both sides, then I would give a simple heads up that if both parties are not able to come to a resolve, the thread will be locked at a certain given time (perhaps by the next day). This way both parties have plenty of time to get in their last words in, knowing it will all end soon. )
What would be wrong with some guidelines for good behavior in a sticky post ?
Would it not help the others members of the board you would like to bring some peace ?Would you let it be, letting the forum becoming a boxing ring ?
Would only move to the trash section the posts with insults and ban the debaters, without tackling the real problem , ie the bad behavior ?Once again, I have full faith of the folks here to know that this board will not turn into a full time boxing match. It is very rare that I would trash posts. Perhaps posts by spammer, or attacks that are not backed up by any form of reasoning and explanation. Everyone aught to have the right to explain why they feel one way or another.
What we are trying to do, is to explain that, by respecting some guidelines of good behavior, the debates can become more constructive, and more pleasant for each other...
I understand the very good intention behind.
So why not?
Simply because, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Why are you saying that ?
We are talking about guidelines (advice), not rules.peace be on you.
Peace
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Let me make things clear it is an assumption ("let's assume".
Thank you, I understood that it was an assumption.
What would be wrong with some guidelines for good behavior in a sticky post ?
Would it not help the others members of the board you would like to bring some peace ?Nothing, it's actually very nice. )
Why are you saying that ?
We are talking about guidelines (advice), not rules.If you would please take note that I only started posting on this thread only after I read the following
So, how about if the entire forum is divided into 2 main sections.
My points have since been about adding to the structure.
peace.
OK, there have been a misunderstanding, i am sorry.
Peace
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Peace JM,
What do you think of the draft? Edits etc?
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Peace JM,
What do you think of the draft? Edits etc?
No edit... It's fine to me... Great job !
Peace
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Peace All,
Mo, you stated
This becomes a form of elitism which most who use 'non-proper' styles can understand and even discuss within the proper, yet I usualy find those who soley use the proper styles are lost when they are fronted with the 'non-proper'.
Brilliant, brother. You're absolutely right. And now I'm thinking I'm probably guilty of this too, and I didn't even finish college! You really should be doing something with your ability to perceive so objectively, bro. I mean that sincerely.
Zenje, thanks for sharing that story. It's "religion" in a microcosm.
Nadia, I don't think we're back at square one. First, because it seems like everyone likes the idea of the list of guidelines. Second, because it's always healthy to let people clear the air now and then.
Enquirer, I officially declare you the adjective-monster
Peace,
Tay -
Peace all,
JM, Okay will try to post it today, thanks for going through it.
Tay, I thought people didn't like the idea of the guidelines either as that could be construed as 'trying to guide behaviour' or whatever, but I see that thats okay P
If anyone wants me to add/edit something after it's posted for example, please let me know here or through PM and I will try to see what can be done. Thanks.
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How can we better the debates?
Y'all are making it too complicated, folks. You can have all the rules and guidelines in the world. It's nice to read them with no ever-lasting effect. Couple of days, perhaps?
Keep it simple! Follow/emulate the styles of Layth and Tay and Arnold. You rarely see them getting on the soapbox.
They participate when and only it is appropriate to do so. And when and only they have something meaningful to say. And when they say something, it means something.
A Fellow Freeminder