i may leave islam for good
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Peace "magi",
yes i do, just like we could today in a tablet, without a computer. no prob. It just takes more time. NO miracle here. Now lets not divert this thread further. i have given you "miracle" a conciderable amount of time, and its not miracle, except for people who deseprately needs one. I dont, so no prob.
JK- Did you even read the article beyond probability? Could Muhammad have divided those long numbers and seen that each of them are multiples of 19? Note that he must not do this once. He must choose a phrase which contains those numerous interlocking patterns all divisible by nineteen. Lemme give u a simple example here from beyond probability article
FACT 2. The sequence number of each word in the Basmalah followed by the number of letters in it forms an 8-digit number which is a multiple of 19 1 3 2 4 3 6 4 6 = 19 x 19 x 36686
Ok this cld be managed.FACT 3. Replace the number of letters in each word in Fact 2 by the total gematrical value of that word. Thus, the sequence number of each word is followed by its total gematrical value, to form a 15-digit number which is a multiple of 19
1 102 2 66 3 329 4 289 = 19 x 5801401752331
Now this is getting complex. For this to work Muhammad must have set the GVs of letters accordingly but that is not possible since the GVs of letters existsed before Muhammad.FACT 4. Replace the total gematrical value of each word in Fact 3 by the gematrical value of every letter in that word. For instance, the total gematrical value of the first word, 102, is replaced by 2 60 40. Similarly, the total gematrical value of the second word, 66, is replaced by 1 30 30 5, and so on. The result is a 37-digit number which is a multiple of 19
1 2 60 40 2 1 30 30 5 3 1 30 200 8 40 50 4 1 30 200 8 10 40 = 19 x 66336954226595422109686863843162160
Now you see how it gets more and more complex. All these 3 and many more conditions need to be satisfied. Thats what forms the miracle. Bro Abdullah DISCOVERED, NOT THAT HE MADE IT, HE HAD TO USE A COMPUTER MERELY FOR DISCOVERING THIS PATTERN. To say somebody could have calculated something 1400 yrs ago and put it in order whose very deciphering needs a computer today is absolutely hillarious. I hope you got my point.
Now lemme put it this way. If you cant see the pattern based on code-19 which is consitent then i cant do anything. When a scientist lets say finds a particular pattern in a plant with consitency then he can make predictions based on that and they likely turn out to be true. Please read
http//19.org/index.php?id=76,268,0,0,1,0
I too made a prediction. Rashad had found that the sum of the verse numbers wherever the word Allah occurs throughout the Quran is a xple of 19. Not hat much significant on its own i agree. Allah is a word found in the opening statement. So are Ism, Arrahman and Arraheem. But only the word Arrahman is EXCLUSIVELY FOUND IN THE DEFINITE form throughout the Quran. So i predicted that this would be the only word which would follow the same pattern as the word Allah when we add up the sum of verse numbers whereever Arrahman occured like we did with the word Allah and indeed the no was a xple of 19. I was amazed when i found tht. Also please read
http//19.org/index.php?id=76,261,0,0,1,0
and tell me honestly whether Muhammad back then could have known this complex code which can only be deciphered by a computer. GOD Bless! -
i may leave islam for good
It's certainly a challenging commitment towards becoming a much better "human", experiencing higher intuitive and logical realistic qualities which have been otherwise deprived off, domisticated and enslaved by religious dogmatic, ancient, mythical and idolworshipping ideologies that once-upon-a-time were forcefully and violently administered and the effects of which continue to dominate in various flowery discources to be found in the Islamic and other religious bedridden arena. In order to understand the attributes of an Allah, one must know who or what IT IS and ITS etymological conditions, else it becomes an impractical, futile and delusional dimension beyond recognition. All the best to you. )
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Peace "Danish",
It's certainly a challenging commitment towards becoming a much better "human", experiencing higher intuitive and logical realistic qualities which have been otherwise deprived off, domisticated and enslaved by religious dogmatic, ancient, mythical and idolworshipping ideologies that once-upon-a-time were forcefully and violently administered and the effects of which continue to dominate in various flowery discources to be found in the Islamic and other religious bedridden arena. In order to understand the attributes of an Allah, one must know who or what IT IS and ITS etymological conditions, else it becomes an impractical, futile and delusional dimension beyond recognition. All the best to you. )
JK- This is all correct,except your usage of "an Allah" while the term already speifically refers to the one GOD or One Intelligent Designer who created everything this makes no sense as it equals saying an the God, but i believe Quran Alone Muslims or better Submitters to GOD who believe in Quran Alone are the ones who can best acheive what youve mentioned above. Going any other way would be yet another fallacy. I once stated a lifeline representiung what stages a rational mind goes through starting off from him being a traditonal religionist. It was
traditional religionist/traditionailist-atheist-traditional HIslamic-agnostic-protestant-Quran Alone Submitter
By protestant i dont necessarily mean evangelical christian but when whos mind is in continous state of protesting things going on in the surrounding world. Note that this may not be true for every individual. I myself jumped from traditiona Hislam to being a Quran Alone Submitter by witnessing code-19. GOD Bless! -
Peace "Danish",
It's certainly a challenging commitment towards becoming a much better "human", experiencing higher intuitive and logical realistic qualities which have been otherwise deprived off, domisticated and enslaved by religious dogmatic, ancient, mythical and idolworshipping ideologies that once-upon-a-time were forcefully and violently administered and the effects of which continue to dominate in various flowery discources to be found in the Islamic and other religious bedridden arena. In order to understand the attributes of an Allah, one must know who or what IT IS and ITS etymological conditions, else it becomes an impractical, futile and delusional dimension beyond recognition. All the best to you. )
JK- This is all correct,except your usage of "an Allah" while the term already speifically refers to the one GOD or One Intelligent Designer who created everything this makes no sense as it equals saying an the God, but i believe Quran Alone Muslims or better Submitters to GOD who believe in Quran Alone are the ones who can best acheive what youve mentioned above. Going any other way would be yet another fallacy. I once stated a lifeline representiung what stages a rational mind goes through starting off from him being a traditonal religionist. It was
traditional religionist/traditionailist-atheist-traditional HIslamic-agnostic-protestant-Quran Alone Submitter
By protestant i dont necessarily mean evangelical christian but when whos mind is in continous state of protesting things going on in the surrounding world. Note that this may not be true for every individual. I myself jumped from traditiona Hislam to being a Quran Alone Submitter by witnessing code-19. GOD Bless!The Muslims of the past and present and their predecessors cannot deny the Islamic inception of an "Allah" of the Quran as an IDOL locked up at kaba where millions circumvent and call upon IT (the Umrah and Haj drama) and the despensing of IT'S attributes even long before the advent of Islam as the "most merciful", "omnipresent", "omniscience" and the "all powerful" to have been physically installed. The "salaat" is one example of a fashioned religious exercise towards such an IDOL. That is the height of idolworship and a fallacy unto itself which the Quran prophesses. Today, the "Allah" or "Al-illah" has been hijacked to automatically become The "GOD of Rreality" or The "GOD of our Creations" or "The GOD of Heavens and Earth", which, by any stretch of means, is NOT Islam to begin with.
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Peace "Danish",
The Muslims of the past and present and their predecessors cannot deny the Islamic inception of an "Allah" of the Quran as an IDOL locked up at kaba where millions circumvent and call upon IT (the Umrah and Haj drama) and the despensing of IT'S attributes even long before the advent of Islam as the "most merciful", "omnipresent", "omniscience" and the "all powerful" to have been physically installed. The "salaat" is one example of a fashioned religious exercise towards such an IDOL. That is the height of idolworship and a fallacy unto itself which the Quran prophesses. Today, the "Allah" or "Al-illah" has been hijacked to automatically become The "GOD of Rreality" or The "GOD of our Creations" or "The GOD of Heavens and Earth", which, by any stretch of means, is NOT Islam to begin with.
JK- I dont get your point here. The Quran uses the term Allah and defines what is meant by it too. When one reads the entire Quran he/she automatically comes to the conclusion that what is meant by Allah is the creator of heavns and earth, all that exists and ofcourse more details of His Absolute Power, Glory etc. Regarding salat and hajj if theyr done with the intention of serving the Lord of the Universe theres nothing wrong with them. Neither would people whor not aware of these rituals performing their's for the sake of pleaing the Lord of Universe be wrong or idol wroship by any means. If a Buddhist performed certain of his rituals to please the true God i.e. he believes in one God who created him and the rest of the world and with this belief carries out the ritual for Him, then again theres absolutely no problem at all, not to mention idol worship. You see it all depends on the definition you relate something with. GOD Bless!
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ERR.
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Peace "Danish",
The Muslims of the past and present and their predecessors cannot deny the Islamic inception of an "Allah" of the Quran as an IDOL locked up at kaba where millions circumvent and call upon IT (the Umrah and Haj drama) and the despensing of IT'S attributes even long before the advent of Islam as the "most merciful", "omnipresent", "omniscience" and the "all powerful" to have been physically installed. The "salaat" is one example of a fashioned religious exercise towards such an IDOL. That is the height of idolworship and a fallacy unto itself which the Quran prophesses. Today, the "Allah" or "Al-illah" has been hijacked to automatically become The "GOD of Rreality" or The "GOD of our Creations" or "The GOD of Heavens and Earth", which, by any stretch of means, is NOT Islam to begin with.
JK- I dont get your point here. The Quran uses the term Allah and defines what is meant by it too. When one reads the entire Quran he/she automatically comes to the conclusion that what is meant by Allah is the creator of heavns and earth, all that exists and ofcourse more details of His Absolute Power, Glory etc. Regarding salat and hajj if theyr done with the intention of serving the Lord of the Universe theres nothing wrong with them. Neither would people whor not aware of these rituals performing their's for the sake of pleaing the Lord of Universe be wrong or idol wroship by any means. If a Buddhist performed certain of his rituals to please the true God i.e. he believes in one God who created him and the rest of the world and with this belief carries out the ritual for Him, then again theres absolutely no problem at all, not to mention idol worship. You see it all depends on the definition you relate something with. GOD Bless!
All the rantings and frivilous excuses is because you are reading an ancient men-made book in TODAY'S perspectives. In order to understand this book, you must know and understand its historicity. You don't even know WHO the real GOD is and here you are inventing the alleged attributes. That itself is a fallacious and conjectural statement. If you initiate the claim that "just because Quran says so", then that becomes an illogical, circular and baseless argument which the Muslims are quite excellent at. Either way, you are stuck to your blind and blinking beliefs.
Regarding salat and hajj if theyr done with the intention of serving the Lord of the Universe theres nothing wrong with them.
How is this "intention" of facing towards and imploring an Allah, who is omnipresent and omniscience relevant to a stone building and all that goes around and within it? Perhaps you need to study the historicity of 'kaba" carefully?
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Peace "Danish",
All the rantings and frivilous excuses is because you are reading an ancient men-made book in TODAY'S perspectives. In order to understand this book, you must know and understand its historicity. You don't even know WHO the real GOD is and here you are inventing the alleged attributes. That itself is a fallacious and conjectural statement. If you initiate the claim that "just because Quran says so", then that becomes an illogical, circular and baseless argument which the Muslims are quite excellent at. Either way, you are stuck to your blind and blinking beliefs.
JK- Ive stated it clearly. Its the intention which counts behind a term. Moreover the term "Allah" has always been and is still used by Arabs Hismlcs, Christians, etc to mean Lord of the heavens and earth or the one true GOD. Theres no question about that. Further yet the Quran defines the term to be so. And i believe in the Quran primarily because of the miraculous mathematical pattern which gives me high probability of it being the Word of GOD. Once this is done i can very well accept whatever the Book has to say. I explained this many many times now.
How is this "intention" of facing towards and imploring an Allah, who is omnipresent and omniscience relevant to a stone building and all that goes around and within it? Perhaps you need to study the historicity of 'kaba" carefully?
JK- Im not yet convinced that the kaaba in mecca is not the one the Quran refers to if you mean that. Now as long as my intention is staright and i think/believe that the true God has ordered me to face a certain direction as a matter of disciplie as i understand it, then theres no problem for as mentioned earlier its the intention which counts. If in the future i receive sufficient evidence tht the building in mecca today known as kaaba is not what the Quran talks abt then ill act accordingly. Simple. GOD Bless!
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All the rantings and frivilous excuses is because you are reading an ancient men-made book in TODAY'S perspectives. In order to understand this book, you must know and understand its historicity. You don't even know WHO the real GOD is and here you are inventing the alleged attributes. That itself is a fallacious and conjectural statement. If you initiate the claim that "just because Quran says so", then that becomes an illogical, circular and baseless argument which the Muslims are quite excellent at. Either way, you are stuck to your blind and blinking beliefs.
JK- Ive stated it clearly. Its the intention which counts behind a term.
You have not defined the "intention" and its purpose and what "term" are you talking about and neither are you discussing its historicity? That displays the poor quality of logical thinking.
Moreover the term "Allah" has always been and is still used by Arabs Hismlcs, Christians, etc to mean Lord of the heavens and earth or the one true GOD. Theres no question about that.
Yes, in TODAY'S perspective, as mentioned earlier, the word "Allah" has been hijacked but relevant to ancient times, the "Allah" was the most powerful IDOL of all idols including HIS daughters (Allat, Aluzzah and Almannat) among hundreds of other man-made idols and that is a FACT, which brings back my point that it cannot be the "Islam" that you profess.
And i believe in the Quran primarily because of the miraculous mathematical pattern which gives me high probability of it being the Word of GOD. Once this is done i can very well accept whatever the Book has to say. I explained this many many times now.
The mathematical pattern is nothing but a bogus invented numerology by a fake "sunni" messenger. Lets not mix up this discussion with bigotry and hypocritical data for now.
How is this "intention" of facing towards and imploring an Allah, who is omnipresent and omniscience relevant to a stone building and all that goes around and within it? Perhaps you need to study the historicity of 'kaba" carefully?
JK- Im not yet convinced that the kaaba in mecca is not the one the Quran refers to if you mean that.
LOL, if you are not convinced that kaba refers to a stone building in Mecca, then who commanded you to face and circumvent it and why? How does your intentions of facing kaba, as you mentioned earlier, reflect your contradictory and hypocritical statement made earlier? Please exercise caution and reason in whatever you bring about and not just vent out thoughtlessly.
edit you are caught and exposed in your own web. ???
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Peace "Danish",
Yes, in TODAY'S perspective, as mentioned earlier, the word "Allah" has been hijacked but relevant to ancient times, the "Allah" was the most powerful IDOL of all idols including HIS daughters (Allat, Aluzzah and Almannat) among hundreds of other man-made idols and that is a FACT, which brings back my point that it cannot be the "Islam" that you profess.
JK- The most powerful idol meaning the supreme, the one, God, so He is. You can idolize GOD cant you. What you cant is idolize anything besides Him.
The mathematical pattern is nothing but a bogus invented numerology by a fake "sunni" messenger. Lets not mix up this discussion with bigotry and hypocritical data for now.
JK- This is absolutely wrong. The code-19 pattern is truly significant and ive shown this over and over again. Either you dont tend to read my posts or you dont ponder on those points i state in regards to the code. The code-19 is my primary basis for believing in the Quran. Ive analysed this code myself for years and found it always significant in every aspect. You need to be able to connect the dots but aparenty you dont care. If thats the case then theres nothing i can do. Ive presented my proof.
LOL, if you are not convinced that kaba refers to a stone building in Mecca, then who commanded you to face and circumvent it and why? How does your intentions of facing kaba, as you mentioned earlier, reflect your contradictory and hypocritical statement made earlier? Please exercise caution and reason in whatever you bring about and not just vent out thoughtlessly.
JK- You got it wrong. I said that im not convinced that the kaaba in mecca today is NOT the one the Quran refers to.
edit you are caught and exposed in your own web. ???
JK- You obviously misunderstood me. GOD Bless!
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Peace Zantetsuken,
1- Rashad certainly had some good points, but he wasn't that great of a person.
I'm not sure if God sends us messengers and prophets. I think everyone is born on this earth capable of becoming a messenger.
According to the quran, you have to verify everything. So everything Rashad said should've been verified by us before we followed it. We can take the good and leave out the bad.
And try looking at Islam not as a religion but a way of life or state of mind.2- The problem with the hadith is that they came centuries after the Quran was written. They came when the Quran's teachings were already distorted by pagan and persian influences. The Quran says we should uphold SALAT (not prayer) TWICE a day. At dawn and dusk.
As for "obey God and His messenger..." I don't think it is referring to one person. There were and and are going to be countless messengers. So we are to obey God and the we should obey the people who carry God's message (the truth). If we don't obey those people, we aren't really obeying God, are we?3- You are taking Islam as an organized religion. It's not. Islam is "doing good works." We don't need mosques, we don't need 1 superior interpretation (because if there is, people stop progressing, they think they know everything through this superior intepretation and no one questions it or looks beyond it.)
This forum is a battle of interpretations. But a lot of times, it's more of a discussion of interpretations. The Quran says we should look at all understandings and follow the best. And here you can see all different understandings and decide for yourself.4-You are a follower of God if you are a follower of truth. Truth is always from God. And we have to search for the truth. We are all agnostics, because we don't have any knowledge of God, only God's signs. God's signs are everywhere. You just have to look for them.
About evolution, I accept that theory as true.
Everything is compatible with Islam if you verify it to be true.BTW, you have already left Islam (the religion).
and where did you live in Saudi Arabia?1- Isn't there some verses that say 'we sent ..mohammed or so and so' ? Guess I kind of expect anything to be sent from Him to not leave so many flaws, including rashad
2- That's a very good point and argument using those verses, the problem is maybe I'm too gullible, I'll believe you for that, then I would read another person's argument that there are really 5 prayers, or 3 and it would like equally make sense to me, but contradicting to each other. And it's like I ask God for help to understand, and either he doesn't want to help, or he wants to give everyone a huge headache by explaining to them different, one has to do 3, the other 5.
3- I see that too, I used to wonder why arabs don't do alot of university research. I like reading here because most people try to reduce bias, or maybe its bias in every direction that it reaches equlibrium P
4- That's a good way to think about it, but then there's mr. einstein. Riyadh is my 2nd home, but almost everyone there would hate me if i told them how i feel about all this
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Peace,
I understand you. For one, you have to understand that we have a shadow of 1000 years on us. People have fixed the Quranic message, and didn't allow any freethinking. This movement is young, it is not new, as there have always been Quran upholders. But most people have a sunni background which influences their approaches tremendously. Rashad proclaimed himself a messenger based on a dream and some personal interpretations. And his approach to the Quran was still with a sunni-mind. He interpretated the word salat only from one sunni view, this is also with hajj and even seeing islam as a religion. This is not his fault. It takes years and years to loose the framework of your past which influences your thinking. Rashad didn't had enough time to go beyond the already estabilished ideas on salaat, hajj and islam as a whole. He approached them from a sunni-framework and showed the Quran is complete based on the verses. But the sunni-shadow was still clouding his vision. So he was still a sunni using the Quran alone. Thsi created a lot of contradictions, which resulted in ideas as that the 'rituals' as salaat and hajj were preserved outside of the Quran. When doing exstencive research on these, which Rashad didn't had time for, we see this cannot be so, as these were made rituals over time and the original purpose was lost. The code is inside the Quran, the problem is only that people can not seperate the discovery from the discoverer.
As for the differences in approach, like i said, most people are still shedding their sunni-layers. This cannot be done in 2 years, this can take lifetimes. Persian, Christian and Jewish theology have twisted arabic meanings and the high tolerance of the early islamic rulers give gateways for these twisted meanings. We are playing Indiana Jones now, looking for the lost meanings. And when some are found, they will not be accepted by everybody, as some are still wrapped up in many sunni-layers. Also the level of evolution of somebodies mind determines the insight on a subject. Some people have the old view of a god needing worship, demanding rituals which have no real purpose to bring humankind to a higher level. But are only there to 'please' him, so they can attain 'heaven' in the next life. Accepting 'miracles' while at the same time promoting science for proof of the Quran, while after some hard research, it can be shown that these are just mistranslations on subjects, started by christians and persians in the middle ages.
You ask a valed question, the only problem is, you ask it to soon. You demand consensus in a time where we are still in the first part of our Indiana Jones movie. Be more patient, and research more for yourself. Buy classic arabic dictionaries, buy books from psychologist Jung, read Parwez and Shabbir, and every time choose the most logical option for you on that moment. We are created to evolve to a higher being, evolution hasn't stopped, but instead of evolution of the body, it is evolution of the soul. Have patience and research more yourself, you will be surprised how logical it all becomes over time...PM every time you want.
Please read some of these books also, they can clear up your mind a bit
Start with this one
http//tolueislam.com/Parwez/ICR/ICR.htmAnd there are more of these, which are very important
http//tolueislam.com/Parwez/BA_Parwez.htmand his translation and books are also very important to get a clearer view
http//www.ourbeacon.com/7101.htmlAnd you can order a free dictionary of classic arabic to start with here, just answer the questions
www.laneslexicon.comPlease research yourself, take your time, we are only in the first 15 minutes of the movie....
nice point about the sunni thinking, I still have quite a bit. not sure if we have souls but you bet my next few years will have alot of research, and this website will stay on my favorties list.
im grateful for you all -
1- Isn't there some verses that say 'we sent ..mohammed or so and so' ? Guess I kind of expect anything to be sent from Him to not leave so many flaws, including rashad
2- That's a very good point and argument using those verses, the problem is maybe I'm too gullible, I'll believe you for that, then I would read another person's argument that there are really 5 prayers, or 3 and it would like equally make sense to me, but contradicting to each other. And it's like I ask God for help to understand, and either he doesn't want to help, or he wants to give everyone a huge headache by explaining to them different, one has to do 3, the other 5.
3- I see that too, I used to wonder why arabs don't do alot of university research. I like reading here because most people try to reduce bias, or maybe its bias in every direction that it reaches equlibrium Tongue
4- That's a good way to think about it, but then there's mr. einstein. Riyadh is my 2nd home, but almost everyone there would hate me if i told them how i feel about all this
peace Zantetsuken,
I have the same problem with which understanding to choose. Just follow the one that you think is best. Verify everything.
and what about Mr. Einstein?
I used to live in Saudi Arabia. In Buraidah. -
I have the same problem with which understanding to choose. Just follow the one that you think is best. Verify everything.
and what about Mr. Einstein?
I used to live in Saudi Arabia. In Buraidah.i meant him and most other scientists follow the truth but don't believe in a God -[
nice to finally meet a fellow saudi that isn't sunni, not anything against them, its just i couldn't imagine talking to a saudi about this without watching my mouth or offending him
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Peace Zantetsuken,
i meant him and most other scientists follow the truth but don't believe in a God
"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. " -Albert Einstein
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I have the same problem with which understanding to choose. Just follow the one that you think is best. Verify everything.
and what about Mr. Einstein?
I used to live in Saudi Arabia. In Buraidah.i meant him and most other scientists follow the truth but don't believe in a God -[
nice to finally meet a fellow saudi that isn't sunni, not anything against them, its just i couldn't imagine talking to a saudi about this without watching my mouth or offending him
Peace,
I was about to say the same thing as Tay, Einstein certainly believed in God but his vision was formed through his understanding of the universe and not through the Jewish faith.
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"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. " -Albert Einstein
A beautiful verse. Einstein disliked the Gods of religions and admired a cosmological one. He was certainly not a Muslim
Einstein
My first religious training of any kind was in the Catholic catechism.
and
I came - though the child of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents - to a deep religiousness, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of twelve.As an adult, he called his religion a "cosmic religious sense".
In "The World As I See It" he wrote
You will hardly find one among the profounder sort of scientific minds without a peculiar religious feeling of his own. But it is different from the religion of the naive man.
For the latter God is a being from whose care one hopes to benefit and whose punishment one fears; a sublimation of a feeling similar to that of a child for its father, a being to whom one stands to some extent in a personal relation, however deeply it may be tinged with awe.
But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair. His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.
In response to the telegrammed question of New York's Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein in 1929 "Do you believe in God? Stop. Answer paid 50 words."Einstein replied "I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." Spinoza was a pantheist.
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My bad Pheonix, I assumed you were Saudi.
Guess I don't know as much as I thought I did, now I see what Einstein meant when he said he doesn't believe in 'a personal god', thanks for clearing that up for me guys.
OpenMind, does it seem obvious that I have an agenda? Thanks for pointing that out, I honestly couldnt tell, looks like my emotions and assumptions got the best of me.
edit or were u talking to Danish, I really enjoyed his postAs for appreciating the universe and also the quran. Even though I like you guys' philosophical view on the quran more than the traditional way...I still find it hard to believe that mohammed understood the quran in this deep way but you don't find not even one hadith of mohammed explaining it this way (only hadiths explaining it the taliban way).