i may leave islam for good
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here's my story, sorry for lost post, I thought others here might feel same way
I was born in Saudi , went to a religious (sunni) private middle and high school. By the time I came to 11th and 12th grade in Texas, even though I didn?t pray 5 times like I should have, I was VERY judgmental of others, jealous and hateful towards any non-Muslim and was even considering joining some jihad group to get the easy way into heaven (according to hadith). No doubt this hate came from my schooling in Saudi, numerous examples floating in my head? my p.e. teacher would tell me to put my shirt inside out because it had US flag on it and I would obey and it consider it love from my teacher, my other teacher blaming any bad behavior from me on US influence. Not to mention corruption and deceit like the school tricking me into displaying my karate and English language in front of camera as if I learned it from that school and not from America earlier, but anyways.
Fast forward a few years of being a lazy miserable contradicting sunni. I was introduced to submission.org from a Yemeni friend. I immediately shunned at first when I noticed the condemning of hadith, but I kept looking back and slowly got interested and started to see what valid points Rashad had, this is when my mind first started to open(probably with the help of cannabis too). Then I believed in it STRONGLY for a little while, I felt as if every sunni was lost and I found the shining light, and started to feel a dedication to actually spread this message back in Saudi to my family, even if it meant humiliation or death.
So I studied online to try to gather my response to every argument against Mr. Khalifa, when I started to run across some valid arguments against Rashad. Which lead me to 19.org and Free-minds.org. I felt kind of tricked for believing so strongly what I did before, and started to imagine the possibility that maybe religion is in your head. After getting to the level of rational and knowledge of most of the people at free-minds.org by reading their posts, I couldn?t go back to the simple thinking of believing obviously FALSE hadiths. I started to think that islam is becoming a massive collection of complicated interpretation, complex logic and deep history, it isn?t even considered ?faith? anymore. What about people that can?t afford a computer to do all this research and experimentation? It kind of gives you an ugly feeling towards the word ?faith?, like ?ignorance?. Like all the Christians for example and their ?faith? in the Lord Jesus Christ, they FEEL him, he HEALS their illness, but he?s only a human that cant do that stuff after he?s dead , why would God give them the satisfaction being happy every day and answer their prayers (numerous examples) if they are doing the biggest no-no in Islam, Shirk? They ?feel God? equally as well as muslims do. The human body can do amazing things if it?s in enough harmony.
So here?s a list of main reasons why I can?t go back to being sunni or a ?progressive? muslimSunni
-you don?t have to go farther than look at hadith/sunni books trees telling muslims to kill jews(blanket statement at its finest), music and drawing strictly forbidden, almost anything fun strictly haram, celebrations of stoning and beheading instead of forgiveness, allowed to rape women during war, it makes me sick to go on, the world on the back of a bull etc. It seems that as common knowledge changes, sunnis selectively pick ones to delete to make islam look good.Ok so why not accept the quran and not the hadith like my friends at free-minds.org?
Progressive
Here?s some logic for you- Why would God send a FALSE messenger (rashad), with the CORRECT revelation (math miracle and denying hadith, etc.)? Seems like the ultimate contradiction to me, what kind of sick god would play with people?s minds like that. Remember the aya ?if it was from other than God, there would numerous contradictions?? Well I can name ALOT from islam or any other religion
- For those that say there is 3 prayers or no prayers and I still didn?t get an answer from when I asked this last time. How can hundreds of people during Mohammed?s time, all claim that he prayed 5 times and everyone prayed 5 times, (not just in the hadiths that order praying but as background in other hadiths, like ?I saw the prophet praying Asir and?..etc?), yet they weren?t supposed to? It?s not rational to say that they all were liars and there really are 3 prayers according to the quran from my own interpretation. But then as I say this, that would mean that hadith IS a required source of religious law since its so obvious that prayer is ambiguous in the quran but clearly ordered in the hadith. ?Obey Allah and obey the messenger? my friends, I don?t buy twisting that into applying only to people at that time.
- The forums are nothing but a constant battle of interpretations, every one has their own version of islam, until ya?ll agree on how islam should be, I can?t see progressive islam surviving or growing with such confusion and no direction, how are the mosques going to be? Each mosque express its own interpretation? That would only lead to more sects under progressive islam. And even if you agree, I probably wouldn?t be convinced that it was something amazing from God, but the product of human rational thinking. You can only twist the quran so many ways.
This argument hurts me in a way , I kind of feel guilty like I?m arguing against God, even though it?s probably my mind doing this to me. I really thought I would be the last person to not believe. I had plans of becoming a serious muslim as I got older. I still haven?t given up though, isn?t it the same for all agnostics? If there is a God, I hope he will give me a sign already and not lead all his wannabe followers into confusion (osama, bush,rashad,pat robberson, the jews, all think they got it figured out). All I know is I have never been so happy, honest, productive, caring for all types of people, knowledge seeking as the last few months I let go of islam.
On top of all this, after taking some biology classes, I?m seriously considering evolution, which of you think it?s compatible with islam and how? Sorry if I offended anyone, any other feedback would be appreciated. -
May God bless us all,
but you for now )
i may leave islam for good
Most people here I reckon have thrown out the label,may be a few havn?t .
Ok so why not accept the quran and not the hadith like my friends at free-minds.org?
My friend the hadiths are okay just mistranslated as was the quran.
I can?t understand why arabs can?t look at the Arabic words and see it though!
Why would God send a FALSE messenger (rashad), with the CORRECT revelation
Who said he was a messenger Br., and where does it say God sent him?
Just because shias believe a Mehdi will come in the future , do you know how many people have claimed they where Mehdi?s ? 1000?s
The rest of your post is answerable ? likewise.
And what I think the salaat is
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5924.0
So in short nobody is a muslim unless
They try to comply ,submit or obey Godly authority..
Muslim wasn?t/isn?t a label.La shareeka lahu wabithalikaomirtu waana awwalu almuslimeena
No partner hath He this am I commanded, and I am the first of those who bow to His will.
And leaving the label islam for good ,That is good but we don?t leave humanity , arabs,hindues or who ever they are all humans so as long as they are good to you , you are good to them and even try to be good even when they aren?t if you can- I think.
Believing in God and trying to do (or doing) Righteous good deeds is what matters.
This was just my 2- cents worth.
God be with you.
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islam is a constant struggle or journey. many different belief structures have existed in islam throughout history, some have died while others have survived. as long as you believe in the Quran's truth and in God, then try to keep yourself in the fold of Islam and find your way. evolution is not against the Quran. Be careful of those claiming to be messengers, there is no point in any modern muslim making this claim no matter how intelligent or insightful. it is not against the quran to believe in 5 prayers as they exist today.. they can argue all they want about what may have been at the time of the prophet, but what is practiced today is not AGAINST the Quran.
as far as Christian's happiness, Islam does not say that non-Muslims will only have misfortune befall them. It says that there are other ways to accomplish temporary success in the world, but success in the hereafter is through Islam, which details a socio-politico-economic system in which all will enjoy true freedom and no one will subjugate another.
good luck
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May God bless us all,
My friend the hadiths are okay just mistranslated as was the quran.
I can?t understand why arabs can?t look at the Arabic words and see it though!
Why would God send a FALSE messenger (rashad), with the CORRECT revelation
Who said he was a messenger Br., and where does it say God sent him?
thank you all for your replies
hadiths aren't so ambiguous, the ones i mentioned are pretty clear. The one the that says theres gonna be 80 sects and only one will go to heaven is pretty clear too. There's no nice way to say it. and like I said, since all the sahaba prayed 5 at the time, I assume that's the correct sect that he was talking about.
I said God sent Rashad, because I meant God sends and knows the pre-actions of everyone. And Rashad was the one that sparked the whole anti-hadith movement, and was later proven to be deceitful by most
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islam is a constant struggle or journey. many different belief structures have existed in islam throughout history, some have died while others have survived. as long as you believe in the Quran's truth and in God, then try to keep yourself in the fold of Islam and find your way. evolution is not against the Quran. Be careful of those claiming to be messengers, there is no point in any modern muslim making this claim no matter how intelligent or insightful. it is not against the quran to believe in 5 prayers as they exist today.. they can argue all they want about what may have been at the time of the prophet, but what is practiced today is not AGAINST the Quran.
as far as Christian's happiness, Islam does not say that non-Muslims will only have misfortune befall them. It says that there are other ways to accomplish temporary success in the world, but success in the hereafter is through Islam, which details a socio-politico-economic system in which all will enjoy true freedom and no one will subjugate another.
good luck
Different believe structures exist in sects everywhere, if i were christian i would replace quran in your 3rd sentance with bible and it would have the same meaning to me, but totally contradicting to each other at the time.
I didn't just refer to christian's happiness, but to how they get their 'prayers' answered, have you ever watched Benny Hinn? Criples can walk from being 'touched' by jesus, major illnesses cured. That's what makes this whole religion thing fishy to me, like it's really just an undiscovered part of the human body/mind that cures itself from enough faith in anything, like faith genes.
To add to that thought I recently saw a documentary about how people can actually disobey the laws the matter/nature if they don't believe in it enough, very amazing stuff. Also a study that shows that people could control randomly computer generated numbers by thinking about it hard enough. I'll post a link if I find them again. -
Peace Bro Zantetsuken
I was also disappointed with Islam, but was never compelled into it by my parents, only looked at it as a kind of magic when I was young, and learning some ayats to make things easier for me. Later on, I let go of Islam for a long while, while getting involved in New Age and Pop Psychology. Some events in my life made me feel very alone, and I met a Sunni who told me that all my anguish will be solved by reading and understanding Quran, that was 20 years ago. My arabic is ok, but I read Quran in English and French. Some muslim brothers tried to influence me in several ways, but I was never convinced of their claims. To cut a very long story short, I prayed to God that He guides me, and like you I looked into Rashad Khalifa's work, but was not satified either. However the Hadith issue bothered me. I now accept that Hadith were not meant to reach us, and thank the founders of free-minds to create a forum to discuss these matters.
Yes we are at a disadvantage now because the prophet is not with us and no new revelation is available, but we can trust God that the Quran is enough, in addition, the beauty is that concerning many aspects of running our lives and our communities, the Quran is pretty open, and advises us that we use Shura to reach a consensus as to how to run our own affairs. This is what the Prophet did when in Medinah, and also what the muslims did who followed him.
Even the 5 a day prayer might be a matter reached by approval among people among a community, based on the Quran. Clearly I can see in the Quran that at the very least there are three prayers that are emphasised.
We now are in a new situation and we need to also reach an agreement between ourselves. It will happen or it will not, that will be the will of God. But for sure, as far as individual salvation is concerned, acknowledging and accepting the Quran as our Guide is central. I personally do not follow the Hadith anymore.
May Allah help us in our Journey unto Him.
Kind salams
Noble -
Peace Zantetsuken,
Why would God send a FALSE messenger (rashad), with the CORRECT revelation (math miracle and denying hadith, etc.)? Seems like the ultimate contradiction to me, what kind of sick god would play with peoples minds like that. Remember the aya if it was from other than God, there would numerous contradictions? Well I can name ALOT from islam or any other religion
Rashad certainly had some good points, but he wasn't that great of a person.
I'm not sure if God sends us messengers and prophets. I think everyone is born on this earth capable of becoming a messenger.
According to the quran, you have to verify everything. So everything Rashad said should've been verified by us before we followed it. We can take the good and leave out the bad.
And try looking at Islam not as a religion but a way of life or state of mind.- For those that say there is 3 prayers or no prayers and I still didnt get an answer from when I asked this last time. How can hundreds of people during Mohammeds time, all claim that he prayed 5 times and everyone prayed 5 times, (not just in the hadiths that order praying but as background in other hadiths, like I saw the prophet praying Asir and..etc”, yet they werent supposed to? Its not rational to say that they all were liars and there really are 3 prayers according to the quran from my own interpretation. But then as I say this, that would mean that hadith IS a required source of religious law since its so obvious that prayer is ambiguous in the quran but clearly ordered in the hadith. Obey Allah and obey the messenger my friends, I dont buy twisting that into applying only to people at that time.
The problem with the hadith is that they came centuries after the Quran was written. They came when the Quran's teachings were already distorted by pagan and persian influences. The Quran says we should uphold SALAT (not prayer) TWICE a day. At dawn and dusk.
As for "obey God and His messenger..." I don't think it is referring to one person. There were and and are going to be countless messengers. So we are to obey God and the we should obey the people who carry God's message (the truth). If we don't obey those people, we aren't really obeying God, are we?The forums are nothing but a constant battle of interpretations, every one has their own version of islam, until yall agree on how islam should be, I cant see progressive islam surviving or growing with such confusion and no direction, how are the mosques going to be? Each mosque express its own interpretation? That would only lead to more sects under progressive islam. And even if you agree, I probably wouldnt be convinced that it was something amazing from God, but the product of human rational thinking. You can only twist the quran so many ways.
You are taking Islam as an organized religion. It's not. Islam is "doing good works." We don't need mosques, we don't need 1 superior interpretation (because if there is, people stop progressing, they think they know everything through this superior intepretation and no one questions it or looks beyond it.)
This forum is a battle of interpretations. But a lot of times, it's more of a discussion of interpretations. The Quran says we should look at all understandings and follow the best. And here you can see all different understandings and decide for yourself.This argument hurts me in a way , I kind of feel guilty like Im arguing against God, even though its probably my mind doing this to me. I really thought I would be the last person to not believe. I had plans of becoming a serious muslim as I got older. I still havent given up though, isnt it the same for all agnostics? If there is a God, I hope he will give me a sign already and not lead all his wannabe followers into confusion (osama, bush,rashad,pat robberson, the jews, all think they got it figured out). All I know is I have never been so happy, honest, productive, caring for all types of people, knowledge seeking as the last few months I let go of islam.
On top of all this, after taking some biology classes, Im seriously considering evolution, which of you think its compatible with islam and how? Sorry if I offended anyone, any other feedback would be appreciated.You are a follower of God if you are a follower of truth. Truth is always from God. And we have to search for the truth. We are all agnostics, because we don't have any knowledge of God, only God's signs. God's signs are everywhere. You just have to look for them.
About evolution, I accept that theory as true.
Everything is compatible with Islam if you verify it to be true.BTW, you have already left Islam (the religion).
and where did you live in Saudi Arabia? -
z,
you seem to be more interested in mind over matter and miracles. these things, though they may play a large role in televangelist christianity, they do not have a role in islam and are conspicuously absent from the Quran.
again, islam is a system of life that allows people to live harmoniously with each other. history is a bleak record demonstrating the destructive nature of the individual who pursues his own aims over those of society at large. religions often attempt to combat this through preaching introspectiveness and restraint. Though these are good traits indeed, it is not enough... this aspect of religion is often attacked by philosophers. what is truly needed is that plus an all-inclusive system of life that harnesses the good aspects of people and represses the bad, allowing true freedom where no person can subjugate another.
miracles, mind over matter, and infighting have absolutely nothing to do with the islamic message and should absolutely not distract one to the point of leaving islam. if you leave islam, leave because you disagree with the message, not because of the above which have nothing to do with it.
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Peace "Zantetsuken",
First of all the only way to reach the truth is through probability, logic and mathematics. Have you studied the mathematical pattern of the Quran based on code-19 in the Quran in detail or just a superficial look? I suggest you read the following
http//19.org/?books (Intelligent ppls guide to code 19 ALL PARTS NOTE Part 0 is Ayman's so called "refute" which is being rebutted. Bro Edip Yuksel always honestly presents the arguments of the other side)
http//19.org/index.php?id=26,57,0,0,1,0 (Richard Voss PhD showing the statistical significance of code-19 in the Quran)
http//19.org/index.php?id=76,256,0,0,1,0 (Example of nusemantics in the Quran)
http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/zebras.htm (Running like Zebras. Argument btw Edip Yuksel and Abdurrehman Lomax(so called former believer in code-19))Read these first, most importantly the 1st one and then come back and we can discuss it. GOD Bless!
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Peace,
I understand you. For one, you have to understand that we have a shadow of 1000 years on us. People have fixed the Quranic message, and didn't allow any freethinking. This movement is young, it is not new, as there have always been Quran upholders. But most people have a sunni background which influences their approaches tremendously. Rashad proclaimed himself a messenger based on a dream and some personal interpretations. And his approach to the Quran was still with a sunni-mind. He interpretated the word salat only from one sunni view, this is also with hajj and even seeing islam as a religion. This is not his fault. It takes years and years to loose the framework of your past which influences your thinking. Rashad didn't had enough time to go beyond the already estabilished ideas on salaat, hajj and islam as a whole. He approached them from a sunni-framework and showed the Quran is complete based on the verses. But the sunni-shadow was still clouding his vision. So he was still a sunni using the Quran alone. Thsi created a lot of contradictions, which resulted in ideas as that the 'rituals' as salaat and hajj were preserved outside of the Quran. When doing exstencive research on these, which Rashad didn't had time for, we see this cannot be so, as these were made rituals over time and the original purpose was lost. The code is inside the Quran, the problem is only that people can not seperate the discovery from the discoverer.
As for the differences in approach, like i said, most people are still shedding their sunni-layers. This cannot be done in 2 years, this can take lifetimes. Persian, Christian and Jewish theology have twisted arabic meanings and the high tolerance of the early islamic rulers give gateways for these twisted meanings. We are playing Indiana Jones now, looking for the lost meanings. And when some are found, they will not be accepted by everybody, as some are still wrapped up in many sunni-layers. Also the level of evolution of somebodies mind determines the insight on a subject. Some people have the old view of a god needing worship, demanding rituals which have no real purpose to bring humankind to a higher level. But are only there to 'please' him, so they can attain 'heaven' in the next life. Accepting 'miracles' while at the same time promoting science for proof of the Quran, while after some hard research, it can be shown that these are just mistranslations on subjects, started by christians and persians in the middle ages.
You ask a valed question, the only problem is, you ask it to soon. You demand consensus in a time where we are still in the first part of our Indiana Jones movie. Be more patient, and research more for yourself. Buy classic arabic dictionaries, buy books from psychologist Jung, read Parwez and Shabbir, and every time choose the most logical option for you on that moment. We are created to evolve to a higher being, evolution hasn't stopped, but instead of evolution of the body, it is evolution of the soul. Have patience and research more yourself, you will be surprised how logical it all becomes over time...PM every time you want.
Please read some of these books also, they can clear up your mind a bit
Start with this one
http//tolueislam.com/Parwez/ICR/ICR.htmAnd there are more of these, which are very important
http//tolueislam.com/Parwez/BA_Parwez.htmand his translation and books are also very important to get a clearer view
http//www.ourbeacon.com/7101.htmlAnd you can order a free dictionary of classic arabic to start with here, just answer the questions
www.laneslexicon.comPlease research yourself, take your time, we are only in the first 15 minutes of the movie....
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Peace bro "Arnold",
Your forgetting that the 3 salat theory has been rebutted and the five daily salat theory has let me put it the scientific way, GAINED HIGH PROBAILITY OF BEING TRUE ONCE AGAIN. Read http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
Regarding hajj you maybe right. I havent seen any mathematical pattern supporting that yet but we may do so in the future. It would be good to do some research on that. GOD Bless! -
Peace,
Jonny, if you had skipped a bit further, you would have seen i have discussed that article already. And where do i say here it is 3 or 5? I say salaat has a lot more meanings. Please don't deviade from the subject, i'm talking here to Zante, go to the appriote threads to discuss those things. The Quran is not a religious book, it is a guide to liberate humanity....
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Peace bro "Arnold",
Your forgetting that the 3 salat theory has been rebutted and the five daily salat theory has let me put it the scientific way, GAINED HIGH PROBAILITY OF BEING TRUE ONCE AGAIN. Read http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
Regarding hajj you maybe right. I havent seen any mathematical pattern supporting that yet but we may do so in the future. It would be good to do some research on that. GOD Bless!there is nothing scientific about that. its wishfull thinking. Or in the words of james Randi whom i wrote about the 19 pehnomena. quote "Its simple number trickery, let them get crazy over it". And lets stay on subject
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Peace "magi",
there is nothing scientific about that. its wishfull thinking. Or in the words of james Randi whom i wrote about the 19 pehnomena. quote "Its simple number trickery, let them get crazy over it". And lets stay on subject
JK- Oh did he? Well his fellow mathematician Martin Gardener was of a different view some years ago. The opening statement consists of 19 letters, and each word occurs in multiple of 19) and this represents a minute portion of the code, yet it was described by Martin Gardner in the Scientific American as "ingenious" (September, 1981, p. 22-24). Please also go and read "Intelligent ppls guide to code-19" at http//19.org/?books (all parts). You shoudl do some thorough study of the code first and then make up your mind. James Randi is basing his opinion on the mess that many have done on the Bible like Panins code which is totally incomparable with the Quran's code. This has been discussed many times over. No scientist has ever given an objective rebuttal to the Quran's code. On the contrary quite a few have approved while others remained silent on the issue. You can get those references from bro Edip Yuksel. GOD Bless!
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Peace "magi",
there is nothing scientific about that. its wishfull thinking. Or in the words of james Randi whom i wrote about the 19 pehnomena. quote "Its simple number trickery, let them get crazy over it". And lets stay on subject
JK- Oh did he? Well his fellow mathematician Martin Gardener was of a different view some years ago. The opening statement consists of 19 letters, and each word occurs in multiple of 19) and this represents a minute portion of the code, yet it was described by Martin Gardner in the Scientific American as "ingenious" (September, 1981, p. 22-24). Please also go and read "Intelligent ppls guide to code-19" at http//19.org/?books (all parts). You shoudl do some thorough study of the code first and then make up your mind. James Randi is basing his opinion on the mess that many have done on the Bible like Panins code which is totally incomparable with the Quran's code. This has been discussed many times over. No scientist has ever given an objective rebuttal to the Quran's code. On the contrary quite a few have approved while others remained silent on the issue. You can get those references from bro Edip Yuksel. GOD Bless!
you know we have scientists too that insist that the world is 6000 years old. People see what they want to see. I dont know their motifs, and i dont care. a number sequence is nothing miraculous. at ... all...
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Peace,
Guys this is the wrong thread for this,,, fftopic
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Peace "Magi",
you know we have scientists too that insist that the world is 6000 years old. People see what they want to see. I dont know their motifs, and i dont care. a number sequence is nothing miraculous. at ... all...
JK- Martin shares Randi's beleifs. Hes an atheist and believes in ape-men evolution. He has absolutely no motif to support the Quran. To think otherwise would be absoultely silly. Hes been working for the JREF as a mathematician till at least 2003 and probably is still working for it. Now back to the point. You calling it a mee no sequence shows that youve never studied it. Go and visit the links i posted earllier. Carefully read "Intelligent ppls guide to code-19" and then you can come here and well discuss it. Actually just these examples should be enough proof
the word yaum(day) occurs 365 times in the Quran, yumain/ayaam(two days/days) 30 times and shahr(month) 12 times. The words bahr(sea) and barr/yabas(dry land) occur in such amounts that they give the exact landwater ratio of the earth. The Quran only mentions no 19 in 7430 and 1974 was its yr of discovery. The Quran has 114(19x6) suras and 114 opening statements. One may think "see the trick, obviously 114 suras so 114 Bismillahs" forgetting that sura 9 is NOT precedd by such a statement. But then 19 suras from the missing Bismillah in sura 27 we have TWO such statements once at the beginning and another in verse 30. If we add the sum 9+10+11+12+...+27=342(19x1. Now if you know maths youll say "oh man see how theyr trying to fool us. Everyone knows that the sum of any n numbers, where n is an odd integer, with a common difference(arithmetic series) is a multiple of n. How deceitful" again forgetting that this is not what's been shown as significant. What is is that the number of words btw the 1st bismillah and that in verse 30 of sura 27 is exactly equal to 342. What a coincidence aint it? So now we have total no of suras = 114 and Bismillahs = 114 despite its absence on sura 9. Further more every word in the Bismillah i.e. Ism, Allah, Rahman and Raheem occurs in xples of 19 i.e. 19,2698,57 ans 114(remeber this no). What an amazing coincidence? This was just a sample. You can now read what a brother named Abdullah Arik discovered all just about the opening statement Bismillah of the Quran at
http//www.submission.org/beyond.html
Though there are probs with the probability he states for it occuring by chance which is actually "only" 1/19^19 which is less than one in a billion billion, the facts are clear and you may go through them carefully by yourself. GOD Bless! -
Peace "Magi",
you know we have scientists too that insist that the world is 6000 years old. People see what they want to see. I dont know their motifs, and i dont care. a number sequence is nothing miraculous. at ... all...
JK- Martin shares Randi's beleifs. Hes an atheist and believes in ape-men evolution. He has absolutely no motif to support the Quran. To think otherwise would be absoultely silly. Hes been working for the JREF as a mathematician till at least 2003 and probably is still working for it. Now back to the point. You calling it a mee no sequence shows that youve never studied it. Go and visit the links i posted earllier.
I have, please stop saying that i havent read it everytime i dont agree with your miracle.
Carefully read "Intelligent ppls guide to code-19" and then you can come here and well discuss it. Actually just these examples should be enough proof
I have its very simple statistics mixed with a whole lot of wishful thinking. A agree its good math, but that doesnt make it from God. thats just a silly notion. Then IBM calculus is from God to innit?
the word yaum(day) occurs 365 times in the Quran, yumain/ayaam(two days/days) 30 times and shahr(month) 12 times. The words bahr(sea) and barr/yabas(dry land) occur in such amounts that they give the exact landwater ratio of the earth.
So? long before that book was ever written peopel was sriting astrologcal charts as precise as the ones today. You are taken for granetd that people has become ingresingly more intelligent, this is not a fact. When we can decipher a code, a human could write it.
The Quran only mentions no 19 in 7430 and 1974 was its yr of discovery.
dont tell me, its was on the 30 day? wow thats amazing
The Quran has 114(19x6) suras and 114 opening statements. One may think "see the trick, obviously 114 suras so 114 Bismillahs" forgetting that sura 9 is NOT precedd by such a statement. But then 19 suras from the missing Bismillah in sura 27 we have TWO such statements once at the beginning and another in verse 30. If we add the sum 9+10+11+12+...+27=342(19x1. Now if you know maths youll say "oh man see how theyr trying to fool us. Everyone knows that the sum of any n numbers with a common difference between them(arithmetic series) is a multiple of n. How deceitful" again forgetting that this is not what's been shown as significant. What is is that the number of words btw the 1st bismillah and that in verse 30 of sura 27 is exactly equal to 342. What a coincidence aint it? So now we have total no of suras = 114 and Bismillahs = 114 despite its absence on sura 9.
halleluja bismillah is mentioned 114 times praise the lord. Seriously Jonny, dont waste your time on me, im not gullible as the other members of your sect. I too think it is remakable math, but hardly God mode.
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Peace "magi",
I have, please stop saying that i havent read it everytime i dont agree with your miracle.
JK- Ok then bring the pts which bother you. Btw did you read the nusemantics chapter 9 of int ppls guide? Do you honestly believe that while writing a book 1400 years ago one could have kept track of the count of words that easily? Do you honestly believe Muhamad in the desert did not have other probs then to put words in mathematical harmony?
I have its very simple statistics mixed with a whole lot of wishful thinking. A agree its good math, but that doesnt make it from God. thats just a silly notion. Then IBM calculus is from God to innit?
JK- It's a pattern embedded in the Quran which could only be deciphered by a computer. Now dont tell me you believe Muhmmad has computers back then 1400 yrs ago, do you?
So? long before that book was ever written peopel was sriting astrologcal charts as precise as the ones today. You are taken for granetd that people has become ingresingly more intelligent, this is not a fact. When we can decipher a code, a human could write it.
JK- For knowing the ratio of land/water on the earth you need a satellite or you need to measure the whole sea inch by inch since its shape is irregular. Theres no way the people could have found that out back then. Moreover again do you think Muhammad would have though while writing a book "oh u know ive to code the no of days in singular as 365 n those in plural as 30". Very IMPROABLE and thts the term one should focus on.
dont tell me, its was on the 30 day? wow thats amazing
JK- Btw the way did you know that the GV of the first two verses of sura 74 which can be understood to refer directly to what the code has done equals 1974 exactly too? If u dont see the relation here what can i do.
halleluja bismillah is mentioned 114 times praise the lord. Seriously Jonny, dont waste your time on me, im not gullible as the other members of your sect. I too think it is remakable math, but hardly God mode.
JK- You took one example forgetting that all exaples consistently occur IN XPLES OF NINETEEN. That is the significance. If you cant understand this simple fact what can i do. Did you know that there are four words which are attributes of GOD in the Quran whose GV corresponds exactly to the count of the four words in the Bismillah? If you dont then please open http//www.submission.org/math-part2.html and goto "A strong foundation". Read that part very carefully for its extremely significant. GOD Bless!
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K- Ok then bring the pts which bother you. Btw did you read the nusemantics chapter 9 of int ppls guide? Do you honestly believe that while writing a book 1400 years ago one could have kept track of the count of words that easily?
yes i do, just like we could today in a tablet, without a computer. no prob. It just takes more time. NO miracle here. Now lets not divert this thread further. i have given you "miracle" a conciderable amount of time, and its not miracle, except for people who deseprately needs one. I dont, so no prob.