The differcence between Rashad Khalifa and the Hislamics regarding the Quran

muslimah22

asalam alekom we rahmatoallah we barakaatoo

i find it really fascinating that someone can actually claim to be following the quran but yet make such a statement that he is having knowledge of the last day like when it actually will occure. plz can u send to me this site so i can see for myself. surely allah is the only one with knowledge

we salam

unknownuser

asalam alekom we rahmatoallah we barakaatoo

i find it really fascinating that someone can actually claim to be following the quran but yet make such a statement that he is having knowledge of the last day like when it actually will occure. plz can u send to me this site so i can see for myself. surely allah is the only one with knowledge

we salam

Hello Sister

here it is, www.submission.org

but watch out because some of the things they say there are true hence you can get sucked in easily to accept the other crap they promote, sorry to tell you that

Take care

matinbhagat

Salam brother ahmed,

Well i dunt think submission website promotes crap.I think the difference is the understanding of millat ibrahim and people are entitled to their understanding,so there is nothing to warn muslimah22 about.She is intelligent enough to verify what she needs to.ALso to brother khizr,the word used in 2765 is ghayb and has been mistranslated as future,as it refers to the unseen/not witnessed.

2765
Yusuf Ali
Say None in the heavens or on earth, except God, knows what is hidden nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgment).
2766
Yusuf Ali
Still less can their knowledge comprehend the Hereafter Nay, they are in doubt and uncertainty thereanent; nay, they are blind thereunto!

In 2765 it is talking about the unseen specifically,and the second part talks about nor can THEY perceive when they shall be raised up,however the not perceiving of the day of resurrection is specifically directed to disbelievers in the day of resurrection as 2766 explains.Hence,the true believer have the possibility of knowing when the judgement day takes place through a messenger.

7227

Khalifa
Only to a messenger that He chooses, does He reveal from the past and the future, specific news.

Yusuf Ali
"Except an apostle whom He has chosen and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

Pickthal
Save unto every messenger whom He hath chosen, and then He maketh a guard to go before him and a guard behind him

Shakir
Except to him whom He chooses as an apostle; for surely He makes a guard to march before him and after him,

Sher Ali
Except to a Messenger of HIS whom HE chooses. And then HE causes an escort of guarding angels to go before him and behind him,

"Progressive Muslims"
Except to whom He has accepted as a messenger, then He reveals from the past and the future.

Hope that verse helps.Also,there are lot of lies circulating about rashad khalifa also.The matter of fact is THERE SURELY IS A CODE WITHIN THE QURAN.It is not limited to 19,it has binary symmetrical properties as well,and the frequency of certain words are not haphazard but precise,right down to the gematrical values of words.This code is vital in a world where we have haf version of quran,warsh version of quran and etc.Though the hafs and warsh differ mainly in recitation and the meaning is not changed much ,however there was only one quran given to muhammad and only one can be the true version,and no matter how people can claim and deny we dunt need the code,they HAVE to go back to the code to verify which is the original quran revealed to muhammad from Allah subhanu Huwa ta?la.Salam!

unknownuser

Salam brother ahmed,

Salam brother

Well i dunt think submission website promotes crap.I think the difference is the understanding of millat ibrahim and people are entitled to their understanding,so there is nothing to warn muslimah22 about.

I?m sorry bro, I didn?t talk about Millat Ibrahim, I was talking about Millat Rashad Khalifa, there is no comparison bro, one was a real prophet and the other was a fake and a liar

She is intelligent enough to verify what she needs to.ALso to brother khizr,the word used in 2765 is ghayb and has been mistranslated as future, as it refers to the unseen/not witnessed.

Sure she is, and by me giving her an advice surely does not mean that she is not

In regard to the meaning of the Ghayb, yes I agree it means the unseen/not wirnessed, it never means the future but possibly some may use it as such considering that the future is not witnessed yet

2765
Yusuf Ali
Say None in the heavens or on earth, except God, knows what is hidden nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgment).
2766
Yusuf Ali
Still less can their knowledge comprehend the Hereafter Nay, they are in doubt and uncertainty thereanent; nay, they are blind thereunto!

In 2765 it is talking about the unseen specifically,and the second part talks about nor can THEY perceive when they shall be raised up,however the not perceiving of the day of resurrection is specifically directed to disbelievers in the day of resurrection as 2766 explains.Hence,the true believer have the possibility of knowing when the judgement day takes place through a messenger.

Sorry bro I don?t get what you are tryin to say, I looked at the verses and it means anything but what you said above, here are the two verses

65- Say No one in the heavens and the earth knows the unseen but Allah; and they do not know when they shall be raised.

66- Nay, their knowledge respecting the hereafter is slight and hasty; nay, they are in doubt about it; nay, they are quite blind to it

(65)
(66)

-> So where exactly it says ? ,the true believer have the possibility of knowing when the judgement day takes place through a messenger?, 66 only says ? Nay, their knowledge respecting the hereafter is slight and hasty; nay, they are in doubt about it; nay, they are quite blind to it?, i.e. a disbeliever lack the knowledge of the JD and what will happen on that day, it has nothing to do with the timing of that day, see whay I say R K is promoting crap and lies?, however if I take it indirectly that 66 talks also about a true believer then it means that a true believer believes in the JD and believes in what Allah told us about the things that will happen on that day, again it has nothing to do with the timing of the JD

Regarding the timing of the JD, Allah was as very clear that only Him knows the timing of the JD

They ask you about the hour, when will be its taking place? Say The knowledge of it is only with my Lord; none but He shall manifest it at its time; it will be momentous in the heavens and the earth; it will not come on you but of a sudden. They ask you as if you were solicitous about it. Say Its knowledge is only with Allah, but most people do not know.

(187)

-> Can you see the Arabic words ? ?, ?La Yugliha Liwaqtiha?, i.e. humans will only know when it happens at the moment when Allah makes it happen NOT BEFORE THAT, the words were translated as ? none but He shall manifest it at its time?

And again the same compelling prrof that Allah is the only One who knows when it will happen and He will only reveal it to us when it starts to happen

42- They ask you about the Hour, -when it will take place?

43- Why should you mention it? (And What you have to say about it?)

44- It lies up to your Lord to set it.

45- You are only a warner to him who would fear it.

(42)
(43)
(44)
(45)

-> See which is more important, knowing the time of the JD or Fearing the JD?, Allah clearly answered that ? You are only a warner to him who would fear it.?

-> It will be ridiculous that some humans know when it will happen and others don?t, yet both will be equal in the account, one had no chance to fix the flaws and another knew it and got prepared before it happened, very funny indeed, R K just made a joke of our God as well it seems R K also saying that Allah is a liar ?Astaghfar Allah?

7227

Khalifa
Only to a messenger that He chooses, does He reveal from the past and the future, specific news.

Yusuf Ali
"Except an apostle whom He has chosen and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

Pickthal

Save unto every messenger whom He hath chosen, and then He maketh a guard to go before him and a guard behind him

Shakir
Except to him whom He chooses as an apostle; for surely He makes a guard to march before him and after him,

Sher Ali
Except to a Messenger of HIS whom HE chooses. And then HE causes an escort of guarding angels to go before him and behind him,

"Progressive Muslims"
Except to whom He has accepted as a messenger, then He reveals from the past and the future.

So?, did any of the above translation stated that Allah will inform His prophets that He chose the time of the JD?, it never did, so why you guys are manipulating 2727 and ignoring the concrete fact told by Allah that only Him will know when the JD will come as stated in 7187 & 7942-45

Hope that verse helps.Also,

Sprry bro, it does not help at all, however what should help is solving this issue is 7187 & 7942-45, however if these verses is not enough for you, let?s have a quick tour of a couple more verses

Men ask you about the hour; say The knowledge of it is only with Allah, and what will make you comprehend that the hour may be nigh.

(63)

And blessed is He Whose is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and with Him is the knowledge of the hour, and to Him shall you be brought back.

(85)

-> See, ? The knowledge of it is only with Allah?

there are lot of lies circulating about rashad khalifa also.

I?m not talking about the lias against him, I?m talking about his lies against the Quran, I care less about his personal affairs, and I will never use it to defame him, his silly claims against the Quran are enough to expose him fair and square.

The matter of fact is THERE SURELY IS A CODE WITHIN THE QURAN.It is not limited to 19,it has binary symmetrical properties as well,and the frequency of certain words are not haphazard but precise,right down to the gematrical values of words.This code is vital in a world where we have haf version of quran,warsh version of quran and etc.Though the hafs and warsh differ mainly in recitation and the meaning is not changed much ,however there was only one quran given to muhammad and only one can be the true version,and no matter how people can claim and deny we dunt need the code,they HAVE to go back to the code to verify which is the original quran revealed to muhammad from Allah subhanu Huwa ta?la.Salam!

Ok

Salam

matinbhagat

Quote from matinbhagat
The matter of fact is THERE SURELY IS A CODE WITHIN THE QURAN.It is not limited to 19,it has binary symmetrical properties as well,and the frequency of certain words are not haphazard but precise,right down to the gematrical values of words.This code is vital in a world where we have haf version of quran,warsh version of quran and etc.Though the hafs and warsh differ mainly in recitation and the meaning is not changed much ,however there was only one quran given to muhammad and only one can be the true version,and no matter how people can claim and deny we dunt need the code,they HAVE to go back to the code to verify which is the original quran revealed to muhammad from Allah subhanu Huwa ta?la.Salam!

Ok

Salam

Salam brother ahmed,now that you acknowledge the code of the quran,then rashad discovered the code,because he was smart?or because God revealed it to him?If God revealed it to him,does it not make him a messenger?As he bore the message of the hidden code within the quran?And also i am not saying rashad was perfect,but i cpmpletely disagree with you he willfully lied about the quran.He tried his best to understand the quran and translated it as such.But he never lied against the quran as such you claim.Mistake does not equal lies as everyone on this forum has differing intepretations and opinions,so does that make everyone a liar just because their interpretation does not coincide with your "truth".Also God mentioned a verse where he will keep the hour ALMOST hidden.If it was hidden in totality,why the need of the word almost?And although God did not specify he revealed judgement day to the messenger in 7227,judgment day is part of the future,so why could God not have revealed it to RK.Besides the quran does mention numbers connected with judgment day in sura al kahf and also another verse about jesus serving as a marker for the end of the world.Well,why did God give us such hints,if he was not to reveal it to us?FOr fun?To play games?Obviously the hints are there to give us an INDICATION(Estimate) of judgement day.In fact, i agree the exact time(the hour) no one knows....even RK mentioned the year that's all..but the precise exact moment is surely in the knowledge of Allah most high.Salam.

unknownuser

Bro

when I answered Ok, it does not mean I acknowledge it, I just didn't want to discuss it further now what i acknowledge is this

there is no numeric code in the Quran as far as I see this book as a scripture from our God, for me it is nothing more than a warning and a guidance to mankind., you want to take as playground for adding and summing numbers, be my guest but please don't promote non sense that sway the people away from the main objective of that book

Take care

matinbhagat

salam bro,

you want to take as playground for adding and summing numbers, be my guest but please don't promote non sense that sway the people away from the main objective of that book

the statement above is not a fair statement,i am not adding or summing anything and i am not supporting all calculations,but only those where a precise mathematics is observed,just because you have not studied the facts and it does not appeal to you as miraculous,you should not say its nonsense.Also,it can strengthen the faith of the believers and help us get rid of scribal errors and get the exact quran as it is in the master tablet.I already mentioned the current day facts that there is hafs and warsh version of quran.SO which do you follow?How do you know which is correct?It is God's mercy he kept a code to be an alarm system for any mistakes in the texts due to human scribal errors so that we can get the pure quran,and this is vital as even a letter in arabic may change the meaning of a word.So,pls do not accuse me.Salam.

unknownuser

salam bro,

Peace mate

you want to take as playground for adding and summing numbers, be my guest but please don't promote non sense that sway the people away from the main objective of that book

the statement above is not a fair statement,

Why is that bro?, isn't the Quran a guidance to man kind?, or it is for wasting our time adding and substracting verses numbers and letters count trying to find a match of 19?, this is so ridiculous man, now please you accuse me of ignorance regarding the code, I spent months and months reading all the stuff on submission web site, and watched all the videos by R K, mate he ain?t no messenger, this is so na?ve by many Muslims to believe as such. Obviously Satan is very clever, he never fails to amaze me.

i am not adding or summing anything and i am not supporting all calculations,

Here we go, you made my point, now let me ask you these questions please

Why you are not supporting all calculations? Did you find it wrong? Or did you take someone?s word that some calculations are wrong?
The calculations you are supporting, did you confirm it your self or did you take some human words that they are right?

How long you reckon we need to confirm that code?, well we spent over 30 years so far to confirm it, did we confirm it bro?, 30 years are not enough for some bloody additions and letters count, give me a break bro, will ya?

but only those where a precise mathematics is observed,

Sorry?, ok you are talking with a math expert, can you show me where I got it wrong please?

just because you have not studied the facts and it does not appeal to you as miraculous,

Look bro, as I said I spent months and months reading the Dajjal work and watched his videos, He ain?t no messenger, and if you agree on that then you have to agree that he was a liar therefore there is no code in the Quran, I actually was able to see the evil in R K eyes in one of his debates, this was so striking to me.

Regarding appealing, well what will appeal to me in this book is only its content I care less about verse numbers and letters count, sound so stupid to me to use the book as such.

you should not say its nonsense.

Well, I will always backup what I say using the Quran alone, therefore the onus is on you to prove that what I said is non sensible, I discussed in Jahannam thread 7431 and it is clear for the naked eye that only 4 functions will be the outcome of the the fitnah by the 19 angels, R K not cleverly manipulated the verse in his translation to fool many who lack the Arabic language

Also,it can strengthen the faith of the believers

This is very deceitful to claim that the so called numeric miracle in the Quran will increase the faith, 7431 NEVER ever said that a miracle in the Quran will do that, another lie by R K, 7431 only said that the punishment of the unbelievers by the 19 angels will strengthen the faith of the believers, and of course it does, because when the believers know that Allah appointed 19 tough angels to force the hell punishment, this must relief anyone who believed because they may escape that horrible punishment. Walk me through the verse and prove to me R K's point if you care, the 19 angels of hell are nothing but another description of hell, like the many other horrible descriptions Allah told us about hell, and all these descriptions should strengthen the faith of the believers because logically they should escape that punishment if they are really believers.

Many other things should also strengthen the believers faith as Allah told us, here is a few

Those only are believers whose hearts become full of fear when Allah is mentioned, and when His communications are recited to them they increase them in faith, and in their Lord do they trust.

(2)

-> See, ? and when His communications are recited to them they increase them in faith, and in their Lord do they trust.?

He it is Who sent down tranquillity into the hearts of the believers that they might have more of faith added to their faith-- and Allah's are the hosts of the heavens and the earth, and Allah is Knowing, Wise--

(4)

-> Clearly Allah is the one in controlling how our faith is increased, so for those who really believed, this is how Allah will increase their faith ? He it is Who sent down tranquillity into the hearts of the believers that they might have more of faith added to their faith-?, has nothing to do with numeric code in His book.

And whenever a chapter is revealed, there are some of them who say Which of you has it strengthened in faith? Then as for those who believe, it strengthens them in faith and they rejoice.

(124)

-> Again whai increases the believers faith, a mere ONE sura can do that not even the whole Quran ? And whenever a chapter is revealed, there are some of them who say Which of you has it strengthened in faith? Then as for those who believe, it strengthens them in faith and they rejoice.?, see

And (as for) those who follow the right direction, He increases them in guidance and gives them their guarding (against evil).

(17)

-> Again, Allah in charge in increasing the believers faith ? And (as for) those who follow the right direction, He increases them in guidance and gives them their guarding (against evil).?, so do you think all those code 19 rejectors have been misguided by Allah or guided by Allah?, I guess the question also apply to code 19 advocates

and help us get rid of scribal errors and get the exact quran as it is in the master tablet.

Really?, this is a clear cut manipulation that R K was forced to fabricate, in effect Allah has given a clear evidence to the naked eye that R K is a liar

I already mentioned the current day facts that there is hafs and warsh version of quran.

I really care less about that bro, I?m happy to accept different Qurans as long as they are the same context, I know something that is most important which is, Allah was in charge to reserve it to us as we see it today.

SO which do you follow?How do you know which is correct?

For me both are correct as long as the context is the same, if there will be a contradiction between the two then we have a problem but as far as I know there is no contradiction between the two

It is God's mercy he kept a code to be an alarm system for any mistakes in the texts due to human scribal errors so that we can get the pure quran,and this is vital as even a letter in arabic may change the meaning of a word.So,pls do not accuse me.Salam.

I?m not accusing you bro, I fact I want to help you to get out of this non sense that I consider Satanic, Allah does not need to insert a code for us to work out how accurate the Quran is, He can simply prevent any corruption from the first place, IN FACT THIS IS WHAT HE TOLD US EXACTLY

The Tom and Jerry argument that if you are in a room that you can?t get out, the only proof that it is unbreakable is someone to try and get out then fail, haha, thanks for the laugh

Now I?m going put a man in a cube made of 6 inch thickness tough iron, and that man has nothing inside but his finger nails, now do you think any one will buy that the only proof that this steel cube is unbreakable is for that poor man inside to get out?, LOL, thanks for the laugh

Well the people will surely buy my word that the iron cube is unbreakable, and surely the believers will buy Allah words that the Quran is reserved by Him

Take care

matinbhagat

Salam bro,

you say i am a bro,and you say i follow a dajjal....i dunt believe this...for a start

Why is that bro?, isn't the Quran a guidance to man kind?, or it is for wasting our time adding and substracting verses numbers and letters count trying to find a match of 19?, this is so ridiculous man, now please you accuse me of ignorance regarding the code, I spent months and months reading all the stuff on submission web site, and watched all the videos by R K, mate he ain?t no messenger, this is so na?ve by many Muslims to believe as such. Obviously Satan is very clever, he never fails to amaze me.

Adding verse numbers is only part of the mathematical code.Adding letters is crucial to point out the purpose of the initials which otherwise would be forever be unexplained..and God is not dumb to put initials and not give us the meaning till judgment day.If you believe that,then live in your own fantasy world of meanings for the initials,simple as that...before this even sunni acknowledged that none had the knowledge of the initials but God..and finally God revealed it to a messenger.Well spending months reading the website and watching videos and your opinion on it does not prove or disprove anyone's messengership.You were not a witness,neither was I,it is a matter of believe who is a messenger.And it is the message of God alone and Quran alone that is the trademarks of messengers,something which RK bore.

Here we go, you made my point, now let me ask you these questions please

Why you are not supporting all calculations? Did you find it wrong? Or did you take someone?s word that some calculations are wrong?
The calculations you are supporting, did you confirm it your self or did you take some human words that they are right?

How long you reckon we need to confirm that code?, well we spent over 30 years so far to confirm it, did we confirm it bro?, 30 years are not enough for some bloody additions and letters count, give me a break bro, will ya?

Well i verified some,while some i took others words for it.However,for many of the simpler facts,anyone can verify it,its there for all to see.

Sorry?, ok you are talking with a math expert, can you show me where I got it wrong please?

Well also you do not have to be a math expert to verify nearly most of the code,knowledge of simple mathematics is enough.

Look bro, as I said I spent months and months reading the Dajjal work and watched his videos, He ain?t no messenger, and if you agree on that then you have to agree that he was a liar therefore there is no code in the Quran, I actually was able to see the evil in R K eyes in one of his debates, this was so striking to me.

What the heck are you talkin about?You sound like a kid...i could see the evil in his eyes??come on man..you cannot judge a person by looks and i am really curious to know how you saw evil in a person's eyes?You would be a candidate for CIA,with such unique vision.

Quote from matinbhagat
I already mentioned the current day facts that there is hafs and warsh version of quran.

I really care less about that bro, I?m happy to accept different Qurans as long as they are the same context, I know something that is most important which is, Allah was in charge to reserve it to us as we see it today.

Quote from matinbhagat
SO which do you follow?How do you know which is correct?

For me both are correct as long as the context is the same, if there will be a contradiction between the two then we have a problem but as far as I know there is no contradiction between the two

Well if God promise to preserve quran,why are thre 2 versions with different number of verses,different wording even,though meaning may be similar,but sometimes even a letter or the word and in arabic can vastly alter the meaning and context.So how could you careless?The BIG PROBLEM IS,you CAN NEVER SAY if hafs or warsh is correct.But when proof comes about how God protects quran from addition and mistakes through the code you rejected it.I follow the quran as purified through the code,without that i wunt know which quran to follow as there a few "versions" out there.If you dunt care about which is the absolute word of God,that is your problem.

Also,it can strengthen the faith of the believers

This is very deceitful to claim that the so called numeric miracle in the Quran will increase the faith, 7431 NEVER ever said that a miracle in the Quran will do that, another lie by R K, 7431 only said that the punishment of the unbelievers by the 19 angels will strengthen the faith of the believers, and of course it does, because when the believers know that Allah appointed 19 tough angels to force the hell punishment, this must relief anyone who believed because they may escape that horrible punishment. Walk me through the verse and prove to me R K's point if you care, the 19 angels of hell are nothing but another description of hell, like the many other horrible descriptions Allah told us about hell, and all these descriptions should strengthen the faith of the believers because logically they should escape that punishment if they are really believers

The bottomline is...this is your translation.No where it is mentioned the angels themselves and the suffering caused in hell will cause this,it is their number(19) that will be linked to this.And you are not the only one who knows arabic.wama jaAAalna AAiddatahum go and find out what it means,arabic scholar!

Salam

Edip_Yuksel

I never approved many of Rashad's mathematical manipulation in the footnotes of his translation regarding his messengership, which I had argued my reasons in one of the sections of Running Like Zebras. However, having met him personally and worked with him for about a year in Masjid Tucson, my faith in his mission was primarily based on the following objective and subjective facts

His clarity and sensitivity regarding monotheism.
His insight to the Quran and continous attempt to learn and correct himself (though his translation is not error free).
His courage and honesty.
His not asking money for his work.
His discovery of the prophecized miracle of the Quran.
The root of his name been mentioned in the Quran 19 times, and interesting implications in verses where the root of his name is mentioned. (for the prophetic signs http//19.org/index.php?id=14,47,0,0,1,0 )
My discovery of the time of the end of the world from the Quran six years after his discovery, without knowing his conclusion or method. (I was in Istanbul)
His happy and cheerful personality against all kinds of rejection, false accusations, threats, etc.
His patiance and dedication in his struggle.
My personal interaction, discussions and arguments with him.

I can add several more reasons, but now I need to go home.

Peace,
Edip

mquran

Edip, while I would not presume to doubt your first-hand interaction with RK and your verdict of his character, I disagree with what you said below

His clarity and sensitivity regarding monotheism.
His insight to the Quran and continous attempt to learn and correct himself (though his translation is not error free).

RK's exposition of AQ based on translations and footnotes shows only a de-hadith'ed sunnism. Relative to Kashif Ahmed Shehzada, Mohamed Shiekh, Parwez and Aidid Safar, RK could not see beyond the sunni superstructure, even after removing the tool of that superstructure. AQ has proven to be a lot more.

unknownuser

Salam bro,

you say i am a bro,and you say i follow a dajjal....i dunt believe this...for a start

Peace bro

Hmmm, not sure what you mean?, possibly I?m a liar?, well here is all the possibilities and I will leave it to you to chose what suits you

Blood Brother
Brother in Faith
Brother in Humanity

Adding verse numbers is only part of the mathematical code.

I know that, there is also letters count, I guess I mentioned that already, but let me ask you

To what criteria exactly you add the verse numbers?

I hope you don?t dodge that question as you dodged many so far

Adding letters is crucial to point out the purpose of the initials which otherwise would be forever be unexplained..

And if it will be ever unexplainable till the JD, would that affect your belief in Allah?

I guess all the letters verses are not more than 20 verses, let?s see the percentage of that roughly

20/6200*100 = 0.323 %

wow, big deal hey

and God is not dumb to put initials and not give us the meaning till judgment day.

I guess it was put there to test those who will say ?WHAT ALLAH WATED BY THESE LETTERS??, EXACTLY LIKE WHAT WAS SAID IN 7431 REGARDING THE NUMBER 19, same as what was said in 37 about the mutashabihat verses, I,e, those who will seek the meaning of these verses are in fact sick in the heart.

If you believe that,then live in your own fantasy world of meanings for the initials,simple as that...

Well, my world is really simple and I always try to make things simple to others, however I have an attitude to make it really hard on those who say non sense without compelling proofs to back up their allegations. Now my world has no fantasies, my world is almost Quran alone really, and I?m glad that I don?t lack its language hence I hardly seek help from others who lack the language, now for me those who manipulate the verses are those who live in their own satanic world, I don?t see them in a fantasy world at all because no fantasy would be for the grieve mistake they are doing by manipulating Allah words to suits their conjectures and lies, it is going to be doom, and I really hope they repent and will be saved by their God.

For the initials, well here is a simple answer, I don?t know what they mean neither I care to know what they mean, because 0.323% is not a big deal to me, I?m happy to follow the other 99.677% that are easy for me to understand, well I will be happy with just 85% to understand and follow

before this even sunni acknowledged that none had the knowledge of the initials but God..and finally God revealed it to a messenger.

sorry?, who was the messenger that God revealed it to?

Also leave the sunni alone, I?m not talking about them neither I?m one of them

Well spending months reading the website and watching videos and your opinion on it does not prove or disprove anyone's messengership.

Oh yeh, R K proved himself to be a messenger, how dumb humans can be?, well done bro.

You were not a witness,neither was I,

Witness of what bro?

it is a matter of believe who is a messenger.

fine if R K is you messenger, do you think I give a fluke?

I only asked you not to manipulate the Quran verses to shove the code into our throats

And it is the message of God alone and Quran alone that is the trademarks of messengers,something which RK bore.

Do you mean R K the liar who lied about the Arabic Quran?, or R K your messenger?, sorry I got confused here

But hey, Ghaulam Ahmed Qadiani also bore the Quran, what a compelling evidence that is

Well i verified some,while some i took others words for it.However,for many of the simpler facts,anyone can verify it,its there for all to see.

Why not show me again these simple facts and let?s see how simple it is?

Well also you do not have to be a math expert to verify nearly most of the code,knowledge of simple mathematics is enough.

Ok I got you. So it is simple enough to take more than 30 years and yet to be confirmed? Well I womder how this can possibly happen if the whole Quran revelation took 23 years?, damn it seems that it is so simple to degree that it is so complicated, I guess we may need another 100 years to resolve the unresolvable Alif initial?, how about we ignore that Initial (The Alif) and just count the others?

Very solid criteria indeed?

I call it the Tom and Jerry criteria

What the heck are you talkin about?You sound like a kid..

So I sound like a kid and R K sounded like a messenger?

Haha, fine you can consider me a kid, but I forgive you because I know that the truth hurt bad and you seems one of those who can?t handle the hurting truth

.i could see the evil in his eyes??come on man..you cannot judge a person by looks and i am really curious to know how you saw evil in a person's eyes?

well, true it is my personal opinion but again this is what I saw and was very striking to me, you know who else that I saw like an evil exactly while watching a her video?, Wafa Sultan, not sure if you heard about her, but I can show how kiddy I can be with the enemy of Islam

You would be a candidate for CIA,with such unique vision.

I agree with you for sure, the problem is though, they won?t hire me because I?m a Muslim

Quote from matinbhagat
SO which do you follow?How do you know which is correct?

I follow both and both are correct, how did I know?

Well I could not find a contradiction between the two

Well if God promise to preserve quran,why are thre 2 versions with different number of verses,different wording even,

Well, did he say he will preserve it to the letter?

No He did not, so I take it that He preserved the context, and that is very cool with me

though meaning may be similar,but sometimes even a letter or the word and in arabic can vastly alter the meaning and context.

why not show us some examples instead of the conjectures?

So how could you careless?

When you show us examples and you prove your point I will care then

The BIG PROBLEM IS,you CAN NEVER SAY if hafs or warsh is correct.But when proof comes about how God protects quran from addition and mistakes through the code you rejected it.I follow the quran as purified through the code,without that i wunt know which quran to follow as there a few "versions" out there.If you dunt care about which is the absolute word of God,that is your problem.

Cool, now I have my problem and you have yours, the problem though which one is dman serious and can earn its owner a doomed eternity with a 19 tough angels on duty

The bottomline is...this is your translation.No where it is mentioned the angels themselves and the suffering caused in hell will cause this,it is their number(19) that will be linked to this.And you are not the only one who knows arabic.wama jaAAalna AAiddatahum go and find out what it means,arabic scholar!

Salam

You started getting unbalanced, well it seems I have to bring my comment regarding 7431 here again mister Arabic ignorant, but I will respond to bro Edib comment first so you need to wait

salam

unknownuser

I never approved many of Rashad's mathematical manipulation in the footnotes of his translation regarding his messengership,

Peace bro

See mate, you said ? many of Rashad's mathematical manipulation?, i.e. he was a manipulator, i.e. he was not honest, i.e. he was not a messenger

Now if you speak Arabic bro Edib, I will be happy to discuss with you 7430-31 ONLY, letter by letter and will show you how the verse was being manipulated by someone you already agree that was a manipulator

which I had argued my reasons in one of the sections of Running Like Zebras.

so you proved his manipulations, i.e. you porved that he was a manipulator, i.e. you proved that he ain?t no messenger, why you keep giving him credit and you proved that he does not deserve credit?

How a manipulator deserves any credit bro?

However, having met him personally and worked with him for about a year in Masjid Tucson, my faith in his mission was primarily based on the following objective and subjective facts

His clarity and sensitivity regarding monotheism.

bro, do you think someone with an agenda to use the Quran will come and say there is more than one God?

His agenda was simply to use the Quran to prove his messengership

I?m sure he was also very charming, it is all part of the deception package bro

Regarding his clarity, hmmm, all his calculations that supposed to be simple were never clear and many are confusing and have no basis neither were based on solid criteria, again I call it the Tom and Jerry criteria, sorry

His insight to the Quran and continous attempt to learn and correct himself (though his translation is not error free).

come on bro, why he is unique here?, aren?t you like him regarding the Quran?, well, I guess many if not all who call themselves Muslims should be that way, no sacarifies really, it is just the normal thing to do if you are a believer.

His courage and honesty.

I agree with his courage, but this courage is nothing compared to his courage to claim to be a messenger of Allah while Allah warned us big times from doing such act. Now I know that Allah always supports His prophets, even the ones who got killed were mentioned with great respect in the Quran, I wonder why Allah never mentioned his name in the Quran?, Sorry, I forgot that the word Rashada apeard sort of 19 times, well I guess I deserve to be more of a messenger then, because my exact name appeared as a messenger who will come after Jesus, haha, bro this is damn ridiculous to believe and promote

I can assure you that I can get you multiple of of 19 of many Arabic names that I can derive from the thousands of the Quran words

So instead of Allah sending a messenger ?Jebril? to him to inform him that he is a chosen messenger, he proved it himself using the Quran, how come a smart person like you buy this bro Edib?

His not asking money for his work.

another ridiculous point that only means desperation to prove his fake messnegership, there are many who are more humble and obedient to Allah than R K was and they are very rich as well, would that make them messengers because they seek no money from anyone?

I can?t believe that man,

His discovery of the prophecized miracle of the Quran.

sorry bro, this is a lie, there was no code mentioned in 7430-31, please walk me through it letter by letter if you speak Arabic

The root of his name been mentioned in the Quran 19 times, and interesting implications in verses where the root of his name is mentioned. (for the prophetic signs http//19.org/index.php?id=14,47,0,0,1,0 )

bro my name was mentioned ONCE, and I guess the number one is more respected than the number 19, come on bro, there are hundreds of Arabic names that can be driven from the Arabic words mentioned in the Quran, and if we find many mentioned multiple of 19, would that make them messengers?

My discovery of the time of the end of the world from the Quran six years after his discovery, without knowing his conclusion or method. (I was in Istanbul)

bro the Quran said many times that ONLY Allah knows that time and He will only ?Yugliha Liwaqtiha?, i.e He will tell us about it ONLY when it starts to happen

how can a Muslim like you claim that bro?

and how come you never knew about his discovery for 6 years?, it does not make sense to me bro, I?m sorry., I?m very straightforward btw

His happy and cheerful personality against all kinds of rejection, false accusations, threats, etc.

lol bro, this is what I guessed and I guess, it is a logical guess, he has to be cheerful, happy and charming, he had an agenda and was looking for followers, it adds up pretty well bro

His patiance and dedication in his struggle.

what struggle bro, that he created for himself?, well I remember his video where he explained to the audience how he knew that he was a messenger, when he opened the Quran and found blank pages instead, that was so funny man

My personal interaction, discussions and arguments with him.

I?m sure you have far more accurate opinion about him because you dealt with him and I never did, but I?m judging him regarding what he said about the Quran nothing more nothing less, I care less about his personal affairs and mateship

I can add several more reasons, but now I need to go home.

Peace,
Edip

Please bro ,the reasons you need to provide is not giving a personal character reference to R K, we need to discuss the Quran and prove your point using the literal Quran, if you don?t want to talk literal Quran then I?m not interested because when we see the Quran as such then we can have zillions of relative understanding according to each one of us, but with the literal understanding we will have one understanding or possibly 2 and then we can narrow down the two using other verses from the Quran, this is the logical way to do it bro if you are interested, then we can move on to discuss all the other issues of code 19 bit by bit and we can see what makes sense and what is totally BS

Take care bro

unknownuser

The root of his name been mentioned in the Quran 19 times, and interesting implications in verses where the root of his name is mentioned.

Peace bro Edib

what name exactly bro, Rashad alone, or Khalifa alone or both together?

Thanks

Al_Khidr

Salaam Muslimah22

Below are two direct links where Rashad Khalifa made his claim of the date when the world will end

http//www.submission.org/end.html

http//www.submission.org/suras/app25.html

If you get a hold of his Qur'aan he also placed this date in there to.

Salaam

asalam alekom we rahmatoallah we barakaatoo

i find it really fascinating that someone can actually claim to be following the quran but yet make such a statement that he is having knowledge of the last day like when it actually will occure. plz can u send to me this site so i can see for myself. surely allah is the only one with knowledge

we salam

Al_Khidr

Salaam AhmedBahgat

You broke this down very nicely brother, only Allah knows the Day Of Judgement as taught in Qur'aan alone.