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  4. We Shouldn't Call Ourselves Muslims

We Shouldn't Call Ourselves Muslims

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    phoenix1
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    Peace

    But the word 'muslim' is not a title. It's a description. And there's a world of difference between the title "Muslim" and the description "follower of God."

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      noble
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      Peace
      As I said I thought long and hard about this, the semantics are not so easy.
      Islam is Allah's System.
      Muslim is someone who acknowledges with his freedom of choice or free will that Islam is indeed Allah's System, and makes it as his goal to abide and live by it consciously (even if unconsciously he does anyway).
      Muslim is a state of being, and for those endowed with a free will of awareness.
      Cool dude...

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        Someone
        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        Peace all,

        What about "munafiq", "mujrim", "muslih", "muhsin", "mudhattir", "muzammil".... are these labels for groups of people? Where do we find their churchs or temples?

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          noble
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          ;D
          welcome
          thank you
          People love labels. And indeed Allah acknowledged that when he said that people keep on labelling.
          However the words Islam and Muslims are special.
          Muslims was first used by Abraham (in his language).
          And Islam is the System (and the label naming that System) Allah has agreed for us.
          It will be better to stick to the words Allah has revealed, because it will be very hard to find similar words that will encapsulate all the meanings and shades of meanings that the arabic words do.
          As for the other arabic words you mentioned, they have not taken hold as they were not meant to.
          Allah is not only confined to the Quran and Arabic you know, His dominion is everything, every single thing hidden or apparent.
          He seemed to make the words muslim and islam stick and hold, we like it or not.
          Languages evolve and dictionaries keep on adding new words, if you look up the word Islam or muslim under any dictionary you will find an entry. These words are now accepted.
          Now cleaning them up from all the idolatry and partner associations, that is something else.
          This is in fact a duty, not changing the names, as do not worry the associations will come back for the new names, this is what humans do best, among other things dodging the real issues.
          The names are not the problem, what you do with them are.
          As for Muslims and Islam, Allah has chosen them for the Submitters.
          I rest my case...

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            Tay
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            Peace noble,

            the words Islam and Muslims are special.
            Muslims was first used by Abraham (in his language).

            How do you know this? Ibrahim is described as having been a "muslim", but I've seen no evidence that he used an equivalent word to describe himself or others.

            Peace,
            Tay

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              noble
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              Bro Tay, Peace
              Ibrahim named us muslims... cf. The Quran (sammakumu almuslimeen)

              • no matter, The God in Quran called us Muslims, and in Arabic...
              • in The Open Book, the Book of Life that we live in, this word is accepted and used in Arabic...
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                noble
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                Bro Tay
                Long time we didn't chat, missed you...

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                  zenje
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  http//yaqb.org/images/alazhr.org/2_128.gif

                  FM 2127. And as Abraham raised the foundations for the Sanctuary with Ishmael ?Our Lord accept this from us, You are the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.?
                  2128. ?Our Lord, and let us submit to You and from our progeny a nation submitting to You, and show us our rites and forgive us; You are the Forgiving, the Merciful.?

                  Literal 2128 Our Lord and make us two Moslems to you, and from our descendants, a nation submitting/surrendering/Moslems to you, and show us our rituals/methods of worship and forgive on us, that you are the forgiver, the most merciful.

                  peace

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                    alpha97
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    Peace all,

                    The way i see it.

                    Actually I call myself different things based on its function. for example sometimes i call myself a father when i am at kids-school visiting, but i never tell the cashier in the supermarkt that i am a father. because it has no function.

                    So the question is to whom are we making this calling and to which end? to which end? to which purpose?

                    Yes there are certainly cases that I say that i am a muslim.

                    There are times when i say i am muslim and give an extensive description of what i mean.

                    and there are times that i say it is none of your business what my beliefs are!

                    When i say that i am a muslim i mean that i have the INTENTION to walk the path of ISLAM. How succesful i am will be remained to be judged.

                    peace,

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                      noble
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      Peace alpha97
                      I like your perspective, which is vey mature by the way. Thank you...

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                        noble
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        Peace Bro zenje
                        You will find another ayat where Allah says Ibraheem called us the Muslimeens (sammakumu almuslimeen)...
                        I quote from memory because this is the way I do it )
                        "Ma ja'ala lakumu mina addeeni min' haraj, millata abeekum Ibraheem, huwa sammakumu almuslimeena min qabl"...
                        He has not made any hardship in the System He decreed for you, the way of your forefather Ibraheem, he is the one who named you the "Submitters" in the past...

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                          unknownuser
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          Peace Noble

                          I couldn't have said it better

                          Bravo

                          bravo

                          yay

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                            noble
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            Peace Bro Boost
                            Thank you, but do not tickle my ego too much,
                            I might start taking myself too seriously ;D
                            Take care dude
                            yay

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                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              Peace be upon you all,

                              The word "muslim" is a description, it describes one who holds to the philosophy of Peacefulness(Islam). The God has not given us a title freezing us in time because man is always in the process of becoming, we are always sowing seeds in our spirits, and as long as those seeds manifest peaceful character, we can be described by the word "muslim", when those seeds manifest wicked behavior, we can no longer be described as "muslim".

                              There is a verse in this reading that tells us not to die except as "muslims", and what it is saying to us is that in order for onr to rest in peace, they must die in peace, you take your emotional state with you after you leave the physical plane, you do not take a TITLE with you, titles are meaningless.

                              Look at how many people use the title MUSLIM, who are totally opposite to the truth teachings located within the God's message.

                              Lastly, if we take the word as NAMED, rather than DESCRIBED, then that means our names whould all be "Muslim Smith", or "Muslim Jones", or "Muslim Muhammad", etc. Did the God or Ibraheen really "NAME" all of the people, or was it a description of a type of character?

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                                alpha97
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                Peace idolfree,
                                it is a description of a state of being.
                                otherwise it is the seed to SECT-FORMATION!

                                peace,

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                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  Peace be upon you Alpha,

                                  Correct )

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                                    noble
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    Peace idolfree
                                    You believe that Abraham is a metaphor, how can I debate with you on such a premise?
                                    Just to say, "eesm" in arabic means name. And to name someone, even in english, does not mean append his label (surname forename) with that name. Furthermore the word/name muslim encapsulates far more than peace...
                                    This looks after the fact also that some people will not live up to the meaning of the name, and that it is seen as a state to aspire to.
                                    I am not too bad in philosophy... But ***
                                    This splitting hairs in semantics does not really interest me...
                                    Cool day

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                                      alpha97
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #38

                                      Peace Noble,

                                      my ego was flatterd by your kind words. and my real SELF sensed an aspiration

                                      Names not only convey understanding and knowledge, it also gives a tool of identification to our ego. It implies to ego that he is safe, because he is one of a group. Like many footbal fans! They belong to a club and the club wins and they are very happy while they did not do anything themselves. It is finding salse gratitudes so that ego feels safe and imoortal. A name must have a function. and if the function is synchron with the WIL of universe, then it serves! It belongs to the religion of servanthood. nat as a label, but as a entity fullfilling its purpose.

                                      peace,

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                                        unknownuser
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #39

                                        Peace be upon you Noble,

                                        You believe that Abraham is a metaphor, how can I debate with you on such a premise?

                                        What does Abraham being a single literal person have to do with it? Lets say that there was a person who was "Abrahamic" in character...please continue.

                                        Just to say, "eesm" in arabic means name. And to name someone, even in english, does not mean append his label (surname forename) with that name.

                                        Ok, its just that everywhere else people want to argue that name means just that....we will revisit this I am sure.

                                        Furthermore the word/name muslim encapsulates far more than peace...
                                        This looks after the fact also that some people will not live up to the meaning of the name, and that it is seen as a state to aspire to.

                                        Yes, a STATE, not a title. Thats my point exactly.

                                        I am not too bad in philosophy... But ***
                                        This splitting hairs in semantics does not really interest me...
                                        Cool day

                                        Its the only way to get to the solid truth, otherwise people are getting confused by inconsistency of definitions.

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                                          noble
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #40

                                          Sorry Bro idolfree1,
                                          If the foundations are not right, there is no point in building.
                                          I am passed academic arguments, have been an academic most of my life, actions convince me more than words now,
                                          got a million dollars to spare for a worthy cause bro?
                                          Take care dude...

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