OUR GOD
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This was wriyyen by someone else who believes in the Quran. I am basing the Quran and all who support it based on this so did these verses not come out of the Quran and if they did does this not support earth being created in six days. And if it does support that and you believe in the qURAN THEN WHY DONT YOU BELIEVE THIS.
All,
This thread is dedicated to understanding and comparing the ?Six day? Creation accounts as mentioned in both the Holy Bible as well as in the Koran.
I encourage Muslims to participate and contribute their knowledge of Koranic creation sequences.
Serious contributors only please?Abuja, you quoted Apple Pie... which is a Christian. I assume you take it from the 'Six Days Creation' thread in the Christianity section? You might also want to see my debate with him over this matter.
Those 'verses' are not Qur'an, but Genesis. Careful with what you copy and paste!
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"If humans evolve from apes that lived in the past, it doesn't mean that other apes have to cease to exist".
Here is my next question then. What specific apes did we evolve from then. Where is the evidence that shows without a doubt that we evolved from these specifc apes. And why are we not changing form yet since you believe we have been around so long. I mean look what we came from other than similiar features we liik and act nothing alike. Why have our looks and actions not changed and why did this cycle of evolution suddlenly stop. Why are we not still changing form.
Sincerely, Abuja
What specific apes? As science doesn't speak in absolutes like religion, I can't exactly say what, but my educated guess is that a group of apes called the australopiths (genus Australopithecus) that lived 4 to 2 million years ago are strong candidates for our ancestors. These guys are similar to chimps from the waist above, but they stood upright and walk bipedally (on two legs).
Why are we not changing form? Well, if it took millions of years to change primitive apes to modern humans, then it will take roughly the same time for us to change into something different. Or not. Evolution states change might happen, but it does not have to happen, and if it does happen, it took a long time. Check back in a million years and maybe humans will have evolved into some other forms. Or not.
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Pheniox1 I agree with what you have said. Let me ask this. Knowing that we are suppose to live according to Gods will. And part of Gods will is for us to do his will, ie serve him and his will. Do you believe that there is a possibility that eventually if a man was to dedicate his life completley to God he could become perfect in the sence of do all he knows all the truth in his everday life contionusly. And do you believe that we are to strive to be perfect.
peace Abuja,
Glad someone agrees with me for once. The thing is, I don't think anyone can be perfect. But we should try to get as close as possible.
A perfect human is like an ideal gas. It doesn't exist. But we can get close. God is perfect, and we imitate God, but we can't actually reach that state.
The thing is, though, that I don't know exactly what "perfection" means. Does it mean we'll have all the knowledge? I don't know. There have been very enlightened humans in the past...
I do know that it all starts with staying at peace (which I am working on). If we are at peace, we have transcended all of our emotions that can misguide us. And since our judgement is no longer clouded with emotions, we can see the truth and make the right changes in our selves. -
To JANKREN
"(John 2017)
'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'I believe what Jesus says in the verse above explains everything. Therefore if Jesus's 'father' is our 'father', then just like him we are God's 'sons' who are supposed to devote ourselves to Him as well."
Yes this is what I am saying we are all the "sons" of God. But I am also saying that Jesus was the son of God. I willbe posting in the near future all that I base this upon on this site to be reviewed by whomever. I just want to have all my facts toegeather, before I post what I want to say on the subject in its entirety.
Sincerely, Abuja
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TO FJ,
And let's also say that you beget a son would you say that you have created the son? No,
Yes I would say that I created by my son and daughter, with my wifes help of course. We created our kids through the means God gave us to. This is nature. Also I will show in my post how I believe God was able to have a son, but snot in the sence you think in a spiritual way and not by actual birth. This will be posted along with the rest of my proof that Jesus was Gods son and still is.
Sincerely, Abuja
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TO ANDYA PRIMANDA,
754 Your Lord is God who created the heavens and earth in six days, then He settled upon the throne
This is the first part of verse 54 from ch 7 of the Quran which stated the above. So as you see it is not just in the Bible it is also in the Quran. So if you believe the Quran is the true book with the truth in it why then dont you support of believ this verse.
Sincerely, Abuja
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TO ANDYA PRIMANDA,
754 Your Lord is God who created the heavens and earth in six days, then He settled upon the throne
This is the first part of verse 54 from ch 7 of the Quran which stated the above. So as you see it is not just in the Bible it is also in the Quran. So if you believe the Quran is the true book with the truth in it why then dont you support of believ this verse.
Sincerely, Abuja
Muslims don't take the Arabic word 'yaum', here translated as 'day', to mean a 24-hour day. A better translation would be 'age' or 'period'. 'Yaum' refers to an unspecified length of time, which can be understood as millions of years or even longer. The Qur'an doesn't lock us with an unscientific account of creation like Genesis.
Of course I believe that verse, it's just that I don't have to insist that the 'six days' is actual 24-hour days.
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TO ANDYA,
SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING HERE
Muslims don't take the Arabic word 'yaum', here translated as 'day', to mean a 24-hour day. SO BECAUSE PEOPLE TRANSLATE DIFFERENT MEANS THEY DONT BELIEVE THE SAME AS OTHERS WHO BELIEVE THE QURAN. IF THIS IS CORRECT THEN WHAT TRANSLATION IS THE RIGHT TRANSLATION.
A better translation would be 'age' or 'period'. 'Yaum' refers to an unspecified length of time, which can be understood as millions of years or even longer. BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS MILLIONS OF YEARS OR LONGER OR BETTER YET HOW DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE TYHAT THIS IS A BETTER TRANSLATION.
The Qur'an doesn't lock us with an unscientific account of creation like Genesis IT DOES THOUGH SAY SIX DAYS IN THE TRANSLATION THAT THIS WEB SITE PROVIDES, SO THEN ARE YOU SAYING THE TRANSLATION THIS WEB SITE PROVIDES HAS THE WRONG TRANSLATION.
Sincerely, Abuja
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peace phenoix1,
The thing is, though, that I don't know exactly what "perfection" means. Does it mean we'll have all the knowledge? I don't know. There have been very enlightened humans in the past...
I do know that it all starts with staying at peace (which I am working on). If we are at peace, we have transcended all of our emotions that can misguide us. And since our judgement is no longer clouded with emotions, we can see the truth and make the right changes in our selvesI believe the for of perfection we are to strive for is to live by all the truth we have. And as we live by that truth I believe GOD will then reveil more truth to us. And then we must follow that truth. In short I believe that if we follow the truth we have, and can do it without fault which I believe can only be done by living completly for GOD and nothing else, and then setting the things of this world aside. That we can reach perfection. But until that can happen I believe we can be perfect in the sence that we follow all the truth we have. But this is not really perfection because we will more than likely still have fault and backslide. So let us just say lets do our best, and let him do the rest.
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peace phenoix1, please read this as opposed to the first i accidently posted the first before i finished
The thing is, though, that I don't know exactly what "perfection" means. Does it mean we'll have all the knowledge? I don't know. There have been very enlightened humans in the past...
I do know that it all starts with staying at peace (which I am working on). If we are at peace, we have transcended all of our emotions that can misguide us. And since our judgement is no longer clouded with emotions, we can see the truth and make the right changes in our selvesI believe the for of perfection we are to strive for is to live by all the truth we have. And as we live by that truth I believe GOD will then reveil more truth to us. And then we must follow that truth. In short I believe that if we follow the truth we have, and can do it without fault which I believe can only be done by living completly for GOD and nothing else, and then setting the things of this world aside. That we can reach perfection. But until that can happen I believe we can be perfect in the sence that we follow all the truth we have. But this is not really perfection because we will more than likely still have fault and backslide. So let us just say lets do our best, and let him do the rest.
And you are right we must be at peace, because anger in its smallest for can be a sin. And then to be at peace with oneself makes it easier to control our emotions thus easier to control our actions.
Sincerely, Abuja
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TO ANDYA,
SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING HERE
Muslims don't take the Arabic word 'yaum', here translated as 'day', to mean a 24-hour day. SO BECAUSE PEOPLE TRANSLATE DIFFERENT MEANS THEY DONT BELIEVE THE SAME AS OTHERS WHO BELIEVE THE QURAN. IF THIS IS CORRECT THEN WHAT TRANSLATION IS THE RIGHT TRANSLATION.
A better translation would be 'age' or 'period'. 'Yaum' refers to an unspecified length of time, which can be understood as millions of years or even longer. BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS MILLIONS OF YEARS OR LONGER OR BETTER YET HOW DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE TYHAT THIS IS A BETTER TRANSLATION.
The Qur'an doesn't lock us with an unscientific account of creation like Genesis IT DOES THOUGH SAY SIX DAYS IN THE TRANSLATION THAT THIS WEB SITE PROVIDES, SO THEN ARE YOU SAYING THE TRANSLATION THIS WEB SITE PROVIDES HAS THE WRONG TRANSLATION.
Sincerely, Abuja
Abuja,
First, please learn to use the quote button instead of doing ALL CAPSLOCK...
Second, yes, I will say it, any translation of the Arabic phrase 'sittatin ayyamin' in Qur'anic verses as 'six days' (six 24-hour days) is inaccurate. Why? Because it clashes with the scientific evidence that the formation ('creation' of the universe ('heavens' and the earth took longer than six 24-hour days.
You're not one of those Christians who believe the earth is only 6.000--10.000 years old, I assume?
If the FM translation says 'six days' in creation verses, I wouldn't hesitate to call it inaccurate too. Abuja, us Muslims of whatever stripe believes that Qur'an translations can be wrong. Only the original Arabic text is guaranteed by God.
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I mean no offense by saying this, but if any is taken may I ask your forgiveness now. If only the original text is guaranteed by God then then why do Muslims of whatever stripe use different translation if they know it could be false or misleading and lead them away from that truth guaranteed by God as you say.
Sincerely, Abuja
P.S I do not have to use the quote button if I dont choise not to. But thanks for the concerne I just have a certian way of doing things with computers. Sorry if this bothers you.
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TO FJ,
And let's also say that you beget a son would you say that you have created the son? No,
Yes I would say that I created by my son and daughter, with my wifes help of course. We created our kids through the means God gave us to. This is nature. Also I will show in my post how I believe God was able to have a son, but snot in the sence you think in a spiritual way and not by actual birth. This will be posted along with the rest of my proof that Jesus was Gods son and still is.
Sincerely, Abuja
Peace Abuja
No, my friend you and I and everything else in this world are only the means by which He creates. Did you partake in the process of creation of your son and daughter? Yes you did but that only makes you the medium through which He created. Did you tell the cells what to do? No you didn't and you have very little or no knowledge at all about what goes on there.What you and I did when we begot a son or a daughter is only to provide that seed. I don't know if I have been able to make myself clear or not... anyway I am looking forward for your proof regarding Jesus as the son of God.
Peace,
FJ -
Peace all,
Just thought I'd drop some poetry on this thread...
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
-Khalil Gibran
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TO ANDYA PRIMANDA,
I can make educated guesses about everything I am educated in. But I like to know for sure. How can you say for sure that we evolved from apes and not be for sure which ape. Because if you are not sure then there is doubt. And what do you mean things might change. So we might have come from monkeys or we might not have. And it might have been millions of years ago and it might not have. Is therer proof with no doubt that what you are saying science says actually happend. And if GOD created humans why would he have created us in his own imiage and likeness then I dont believe we were ever ment to change nor were we or any other animal made that way.Sincerely, Abuja
What specific apes? As science doesn't speak in absolutes like religion, I can't exactly say what, but my educated guess is that a group of apes called the australopiths (genus Australopithecus) that lived 4 to 2 million years ago are strong candidates for our ancestors. These guys are similar to chimps from the waist above, but they stood upright and walk bipedally (on two legs).
Why are we not changing form? Well, if it took millions of years to change primitive apes to modern humans, then it will take roughly the same time for us to change into something different. Or not. Evolution states change might happen, but it does not have to happen, and if it does happen, it took a long time. Check back in a million years and maybe humans will have evolved into some other forms. Or not.
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TO ANDYA PRIMANDA,
I can make educated guesses about everything I am educated in. But I like to know for sure. How can you say for sure that we evolved from apes and not be for sure which ape. Because if you are not sure then there is doubt. And what do you mean things might change. So we might have come from monkeys or we might not have. And it might have been millions of years ago and it might not have. Is therer proof with no doubt that what you are saying science says actually happend. And if GOD created humans why would he have created us in his own imiage and likeness then I dont believe we were ever ment to change nor were we or any other animal made that way.Sincerely, Abuja
What specific apes? As science doesn't speak in absolutes like religion, I can't exactly say what, but my educated guess is that a group of apes called the australopiths (genus Australopithecus) that lived 4 to 2 million years ago are strong candidates for our ancestors. These guys are similar to chimps from the waist above, but they stood upright and walk bipedally (on two legs).
Why are we not changing form? Well, if it took millions of years to change primitive apes to modern humans, then it will take roughly the same time for us to change into something different. Or not. Evolution states change might happen, but it does not have to happen, and if it does happen, it took a long time. Check back in a million years and maybe humans will have evolved into some other forms. Or not.
You want absolutes, I already told you science does not speak absolutes like religion. But we do have hard evidence of our possible ancestors--we have fossils, genetic evidence, etc. which strongly indicate that we are descended from apes (note not monkeys). I can direct you to sites and places and resources that will explain human evolution better but I am sure your mind is already closed and you've decided what you want to believe, so I won't bother.
So here's what I think
It's quite certain that humans are descended from ancient apes, because there is fossil and genetic evidence.
I'm convinced that humans have been evolving since 4 to 2 million years ago, because there are fossils from that time untul now that shows some change in a group of bipedal, upright apes.
Oh, and I don't believe in that Biblical nonsense of God creating humans in his image. God said nothing about creating humans in God's image in the Qur'an.
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Muslims don't take the Arabic word 'yaum', here translated as 'day', to mean a 24-hour day. A better translation would be 'age' or 'period'. 'Yaum' refers to an unspecified length of time, which can be understood as millions of years or even longer. The Qur'an doesn't lock us with an unscientific account of creation like Genesis.
Of course I believe that verse, it's just that I don't have to insist that the 'six days' is actual 24-hour days.
If you dont believe six days means six days then what do you think six days means.
Sincerely, Abuja
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TO ANDY PRIMANDA
You want absolutes, I already told you science does not speak absolutes like religion. But we do have hard evidence of our possible ancestors--we have fossils, genetic evidence, etc. which strongly indicate that we are descended from apes (note not monkeys). I can direct you to sites and places and resources that will explain human evolution better but I am sure your mind is already closed and you've decided what you want to believe, so I won't bother.
So here's what I think
It's quite certain that humans are descended from ancient apes, because there is fossil and genetic evidence.
I'm convinced that humans have been evolving since 4 to 2 million years ago, because there are fossils from that time untul now that shows some change in a group of bipedal, upright apes.
Oh, and I don't believe in that Biblical nonsense of God creating humans in his image. God said nothing about creating humans in God's image in the Qur'an.I am not looking for Absolutes, besides not all religion is absolute either. For example the sixdays we have been talking about. Its obvious its not absolute. Because there are many different beliefs about it. And if you dont believe it was six days, how long do you believe it was.
Why would God not have just created us in our present form. And why would he allow the possibility for us to change into something else. Because if we evolve into something else like back into an animal we will no longer have the abilities we do know. For example we will no longer be able to do his will or any good deeds for that matter. Why would God allow this or the possibilty of it.
And has there been anything other animals that have evolved into humans and why not. If APES could do this why have we not seen this in any thing else. Why have other animals not evolved into humans.Sincerely, Abuja
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I am not looking for Absolutes, besides not all religion is absolute either. For example the sixdays we have been talking about. Its obvious its not absolute. Because there are many different beliefs about it. And if you dont believe it was six days, how long do you believe it was.
Age of the universe(13.7 ? 0.2) ? 1.000.000.000 years.
Age of the Earth4.500.000.000 years
First appearance of bipedal apes ('humans' About 4.5 million years ago (age of earliest Australopithecus fossils)
First appearance of Homo sapiens, our species About 200.000 years agoThe dates can change, but I'm pretty sure everything does not take place in only 6 days or 6.000--10.000 years! Now please tell me what you believe on the age of the earth/universe and where that information comes from.
I believe creation is still continuing, so we are still in the 'six ages' which started 13 billion years ago (from the Big Bang).
Why would God not have just created us in our present form. And why would he allow the possibility for us to change into something else. Because if we evolve into something else like back into an animal we will no longer have the abilities we do know. For example we will no longer be able to do his will or any good deeds for that matter. Why would God allow this or the possibilty of it.
What makes you think God must create humans in our preent form? What makes you think God cannot allow us to evolve further in the future? What makes you think that we will lose our abilities if we evolve into something else?
Your questions sound arrogant to me because you're constricting the omnipotent God to your own understanding. God can do whatever God wants.
God could have created us in our present form. Problem is, if God did do that, then the scientific evidence showed that God created a succession of apes that looks more and more like modern humans as they get closer to us in the vastness of time, and that hinted strongly that human creation isn't a magical 'poof! humans!' type of thing. I can believe that God created humans without evolution if there are no humanlike ape fossils. But there are fossils like that, and I believe they are preserved for us as clues about our past. And the Qur'an hinted that humans may be able to witness their own creation by reading signs God lieft in the heavens and the earth. Scientists did that, and they were able to construct theories from those signs, the scientific evidence.
And has there been anything other animals that have evolved into humans and why not. If[q APES could do this why have we not seen this in any thing else. Why have other animals not evolved into humans.
Evolution does not say that something must evolve into any other specified thing. The evolution of life is influenced by availaibility of ecological opportunities and biological constraints. It's a possibility that other life forms may someday evolve into intelligent beings like humans. Will it happen? I don't know. I'd really love to be able to go to, say, 1 million years in the future and see what new beings have evolved. Maybe there will be another intelligent form. (Btw, the chance would be greater if the niche for intelligent creatures, currently occupied to the max by humans, were to be vacated).
If you dont believe six days means six days then what do you think six days means.
An unspecified amount of time. Could be millions of years or billions of years. I'm sure the majority of Muslims here, creationist and evolution-accepting alike, has a similar understanding. Ask a random Free-minds member the same question and see if my claim is correct.
Sincerely, Abuja
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TO ANDYA PRIMANDA,
What do you mean by this I am not sure I understand your sentence here.
Ok I understand where you are comming from. Here is my next question. And if I sounded arrogant by saying this I did not intend to I was just asking you those questions to see where you stood on them. I ment no arrogance.
But to my next question do you believ the world will end does the Quran support this. If it does how does it say the world will end and when. And what do you think about this.
Sincerely, Abuja