Using the word "muslim" in an english conversation
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I would like to ask people who say that we should translate words like "muslim" into english language to accept their own advice and also try to translate other words that are not translated in the Q like tawrat (the law) injeel (good news), nesara (helpers), jehudi (linient ones) etc. othervise I agree with them in trying to translate words that are stuck in arabic in all languages.
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Peace,
I try to translate all Arabic words even if it has been a tedious task. Even tried to translate the word "Allah" literally as it means, according to current level of understanding, instead of using the word "god", as that is not entirely accurate, occasionally lately. I understand that the elah word has defined God as it is 'is that it is'. Sounds a bit dull for everyday use in English though, so I settle at God and instead imagine God standing for Galaxies O(u)niverse Dimensions, somewhat similar meaning, but still the Aramaic root word gives the best definition and that without imagination. God is 'that which is' and allegedly God said to Moses "I am that I am", which is a quite perfect definition of what God is, i.e. an abstract entity that simply exist with no beginning nor end.
We should all see God as something that is everywhere at the same time, and not some skyman sitting on a throne somewhere, to the extent that God is everything that you see. Materialization of God and the faith has caused its downfall in all times and Paganism with their many words and strange rituals have been there for millennia and not unique to the Islam religion but people fell victim in Zoroastrianism, Judaism and to some extent Christianity too. And none of them labels are a label of God's approved faith but God does not really deal in labels and not even have an own name for how much does "Allah" say other than what I wrote above, and God has not given people names of what to call their faith. Esm (used to advocate name) used in bism-Allah is more like "with the soul/energy of God"... Solomon issued a decree to the queen of Sheba with those words. When it is said traditionally that Abraham named you Muslims this is a wrong interpretation but your soul/spirit should be of Muslim. When you write bismillah then it is really serious and you must really do something bismillah.
Ah well. This was a bit off topic I guess. But rest assured I do my utmost to translate all Arabic words no matter what. We speak English and the message can be presented in English as well, no problem.
I do not really agree that torat means law though but rather instruction or a foundation and not specifically law; the word ketaab is used for that purpose more or less. Injeel may indicate a lesson in humbleness and a way to God. Nasara is probably correct that the "label" is helper even for those who has been thought of to mean Christians. Yahud is just a linguistic form of Hudan with implied form to probably mean that these people thought they are guides for people or the way to be, while their ways were all but sincere and rather corrupt. The real only label I have found is Children of Israel (bani israel).
Be of one in 'is that that it is'
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Sorry. Double post.
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I would like to ask people who say that we should translate words like "muslim" into english language to accept their own advice and also try to translate other words that are not translated in the Q like tawrat (the law) injeel (good news), nesara (helpers), jehudi (linient ones) etc. othervise I agree with them in trying to translate words that are stuck in arabic in all languages.
I agree (this was my underlying theme for this post), although I haven't yet really examined the words you listed.
... tried to translate the word "Allah" literally as it means, according to current level of understanding, instead of using the word "god", as that is not entirely accurate, occasionally lately. I understand that the elah word has defined God as it is 'is that it is'.
Thanks for your your posts. Is there a link or more information you can provide regarding how one can arrive at this conclusion? Or why "The God" is an incorrect translation?
I wonder how you would translate 18110
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| translation181106 Has been revealed 181107 to me 181108 that 181109 The God 1811010 (is) God 1811011 One. -
I refer to myself as a Muslim (a difficult thing to pull off for a white guy in Alabama), but I have reservations about using the name "Islam" as a religious identifier to note my following the Qur'an simply because of the current negative connotations associated with "Islam". If I say my religion is Islam, I find myself immediately having to qualify myself as being in THIS part of of the Muslim community as opposed to THAT part- and this, of course, being met with skepticism anyway because 'we all know that Koran book says to lie to everybody who ain't Muslims'.
I truly wish there were a better, more positive way to identify our faith, if only to stake out our corner of the world's religious community. I wonder if we shouldn't just drive a hard bargain and continue to refer to ourselves individually as Muslims, and refer to our faith as Islam, and specify that we follow the Qur'an only. If we don't put our foot down and put a name on ourselves and our faith, someone else surely will. In lighter conversations I have referred to myself as a Qur'anista (one who promotes the Qur'an) and it actually covered all the bases in that one word.
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I don't think Islam is a religion at all. Islam in the Quran is a "deen". Deen is often mistranslated as religion or faith. But the more accurate translation is SYSTEM. Now think about what religion means as a word to most citizens of Planet Earth. It's a private club with members, hierarchy & by laws. If you follow club rules and respect the leadership structure, you're in! If you question any club rules or leaders, your membership will be revoked. The Quran on the other hand, puts all the responsibility on the INDIVIDUAL to seek truth, contemplate Gods words & reach his/her own conclusions. So is Islam really a religion? By definition, I'd say no.
So say what you want. Personally I don't wish to associate with Sunnis and they have hijacked the terms "Islam" & "Muslims". Even though, by strict definition, that's what we are, I will say "Rationalist Monotheist". This will open up a world of questions & I can explain further. I've also said "Submitter" in the past which does the same. But either way, the choice is yours. What you're comfortable with. Labels mean nothing. Peace!
Aamer.
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I agree (this was my underlying theme for this post), although I haven't yet really examined the words you listed.
Thanks for your your posts. Is there a link or more information you can provide regarding how one can arrive at this conclusion? Or why "The God" is an incorrect translation?Well, 'The God' (be that God) is right as a literal translation when considering AL (be that) - LAH without giving any further thought into what the LAM and pronoun suffix intends to mean in the linguistic composition. LAM, the letter, seems to imply something distinct, definite (something existent) and I chose THAT as an English substitute for translation and demonstrative purposes. Regarding HA, as the suffix as in , I take that it means 'it (is)' as grammatical formula. I am currently working on whether the 'ha' can be an ending that contains alef + ha in the same symbol, meaning it would take a meaning of 'is it' or 'it is', otherwise the translation is 'be that - that it'. AL in ALLAH is just a grammatical function (almost), but it is important to know why ILAH also starts with Alef + Lam (be that - it is). The Arabic letter 'lam' has a very important innate meaning, and it is also marking some chapters of the scripture with Alef Lam + alternative letter, for example, Alef Lam + Meem or Alef Lam + Meem Ra etc. This is of course not just a coincidence that the chapters are introduced by these letters as they carry a meaning on their own and the answer is in the innate meaning of the letters themselves. When grasping their innate meaning then you need to picture something very very primitive in your mind, something simple, such as foundation/solidness for 'Ra' (used in RA - HMAN and RA - HEEM or AL - A'RDH and even RABB). My current work is still in progress so I am only partially complete in understanding. For 'saad' it is 'light' as primitive meaning, for example, Mosadeqeen = of 'light give express ones', its more comprehensive meaning I suppose you can create for yourself from the succession of words.
It may also be important to ponder upon why in the suggested phrase you gave for me to translate 'me' as a person is defined AL - Ye, perhaps 'be that of/integrity' and everything seems to reflect back to that AL - L - AH is Creator.
I wonder how you would translate 18110
| svw
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| translation181106 Has been revealed 181107 to me 181108 that 181109 The God 1811010 (is) God 1811011 One. My translations may begin to differ quite heavily from traditional interpretations, and it is not that I can swear by God that it is accurate before I have managed to master the Arabic fully. I am sorry that this is a very primitive translation. I gave the passage from the beginning because the phrase you gave me to translate is very much out of context without the first part.
Express-that Be-one(s)-of-is is-one(s)-is with-behave-foundation of-"example"-that-just-of in-and-good-in 'be-that-in' (i.e. I/me), be-ones-of-is 'is-that-it-is-just-of' 'is-that-it-is' (ELAH) and good give...
If you allow me to manipulate the text to create a paraphrasing in English the passage may sound like this
Say that (express that) Be of ones who are just and good in behavior like that of me, be those ones just of 'is-that-it-is' (God) and do good (original literal give good).
Without spending too much time I brought forth this translation. It is based on what I know of Arabic at this time, but it will, God willing, get better soon. It is very little based on bias from people who think they know Arabic, but I gave it my own thinking while breaking down the language into pieces first before making an attempt at understanding.
The problem with the traditional interpretation is that they make God into a foreign and stranger entity rather than acknowledging that God is near and for the people to be like God and that the one told to 'express-that' was to be followed in that he was fair and good. We are to follow God in spirit and the spirit ought to be found in a prophet and messenger hence making him a decent target to follow what is good and fair in him.
God's lesson topic for the entire Qur'an in whole is to be fair and good and with this spirit insight one may get far. Leave the ego behind and become of the "We" that are in the narration.
What I discover is just reinforcing what I have been tinkering about for the past one or two years, and overall what has been my philosophy of God for the past ten years and more. The beginning of "my" thread 'Nearness and Guidance' talked much about the primary goals of "Islam", or rather God's faith/realm and the more I work in the spirit of fairness and the good nature of God's faith the more I realize this is what it is all about.
(the) God (or 'good' that it may be derived from) is not a bad label, but it does not equal to the choice of Allah in Qur'an but more like Rahman or Raheem, or even 'rabb'. God is the label for the function of God, while Allah is the condition of the very being of God (mere existence). God is not a name nor is Allah a name, but they are like 'spirit of', (alef) seen + meem. Thus it does not matter if you refer to God as, for example, Ahura Mazda as long as they stand for the same thing as Allah. I also "think" that Buddha is a gradual distortion and misconception of their very own faith after studying some Buddhism because Buddha and the faith does not add up but yet if you distance yourself from some conjecture you can understand that when words and works of Buddha are talked about you can understand they talk about the spirit of God. That they make images/statues of Buddha is a gross error from their part and likely a long-lasting misconception, but when I studied their faith; beneath the surface I could see what the Qur'an teaches and their spiritual realm and philosophies match what you want to accomplish in what is called Islam, except that they happen to believe in reincarnation and some other things which is likely conjecture over time. However, "Muslims" also do a gross error when they associate the building in the town called Mekka with God. Ignorance is not limited to one sect.
Man has often had a trouble getting into their heads that nothing in Heaven or Earth should be portrayed as an image of God and attributed, and it was one of the first rows in the revelation that got inscribed in stone to Moses. Yet people keep various things holy such as locations or items or even people. And a location never becomes as holy as those inhabiting it.
Be of one with God
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Thanks for your posts.
I don't think Islam is a religion at all. Islam in the Quran is a "deen". Deen is often mistranslated as religion or faith. But the more accurate translation is SYSTEM. Now think about what religion means as a word to most citizens of Planet Earth. It's a private club with members, hierarchy & by laws. If you follow club rules and respect the leadership structure, you're in! If you question any club rules or leaders, your membership will be revoked. The Quran on the other hand, puts all the responsibility on the INDIVIDUAL to seek truth, contemplate Gods words & reach his/her own conclusions. So is Islam really a religion? By definition, I'd say no.
What you've said resonates with my conclusions. It reminded me of something I had written a few days ago "I find that God's guidance is for people... I believe it is for the INDIVIDUAL. It is not for the GROUP. A group's behavior is as a result of the aggregate choices of its members."
Man of Faith Thanks for taking the time to walk me through your thinking. Good luck in the development of your tinkering and understanding. For me, the tinkering seems to be a daily and never-ending thing...
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May your soul be protected, brother SAbboushi,
What I am glad over is that the tinkering has led to further understanding and not so much into further questions. Delving into the very foundation of Arabic was a wise decision in my opinion rather than remaining in confusion left with a lot of words and meanings propagated by people void of knowledge that are also quite arrogant on their stance. Admittedly I "recycled" what they knew to discover the meaning of the letters involved in words, but at least I thought on my own and some words/letters I have actually corrected myself. And through these means I have also found more upright translations of passages that seem atrocious and verging on oppressive. One word I am glad to have discovered its true meaning is 'kafar', even if I have changed my opinion several times on it, and now I no longer consider it to be in opposition to God, but rather be void of sound judgment, such as the fools in the "Islamic State". What I have known for quite some time is that it does not translate as "disbeliever" or lack of faith in God. Heck not even belief exists in the realm of God because God does not deal in belief but is a rather confident being. Only opposite case is to be without knowledge, self-insight.
A question is the final judgment on the promised day when a person was completely oblivious of the fact there is a creator during his or her lifetime and how God will judge then, if this person was like God in deed and behavior while ignoring the fact that there is a creating force in this universe that also is the universe itself. It is among my only questions I have and according to my realization it may not be that these people are doomed to Hell just for lacking knowledge or being misinformed and hence drawn the wrong conclusions. What I find that God will look on the most is just what was the deeds and behavior of this soul when it was still present on Earth.
Be of one with God