question about Al-Fatiha
-
Peace all,
"Rabb" is sustainer/nourisher which implies a material subject which needs to be sustained or nourished. All knowledge is already possessed by The God; He does not have to sustain or nourish it. Sustainer/nourisher of all beings/creation makes more sense, because beings/creation need to be nourished and sustained.
The primary significance of "rabb" is "bringing a thing to a state of completion by degrees", which implies an evolving process. The God already has and always had all knowledge in its entirety, and He does not need to bring it to a state of completion by degrees, which would imply an imperfect God to start with.
One can say that "rabb" can also mean "owner/master" but that is not its primary meaning.
-
peace Tanveer, all,
Nice pick up on the "rabb" implication. I have "AAalameena" as creations/beings. Contrary to what some might think, this meaning is perfectly in coherence with the core theme of the root. The following is a quote from PRL (emphasis mine)
Ayn-Lam-Miim = to mark/sign/distinguish, creations/beings, world, science/learning/knowledge/information, aware/know. By means of which one knows a thing, hence it signifies world or creation, because by it the Creator is known. alim (pl. ulama) - one who is learned/wise or knows.
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
-
tanveer perhaps god is bringing the knowledge to completion in degrees for us, and it has nothing to do with what god knows, but what god reveals to us as knowledge.
if that implies an imperfect god for you then i can't really help what it implies for you, that's something you have to answer for... suddenly bringing up some sort of implication of imperfection... is that the first thing you see? or is it merely an argument to try and dissuade from thinking different than your own, by stating that those who think thusly are implying imperfection?
thanks wakas i will consider what you said... but does it literally mean creation, or does it mean creation by way of relation, ie because creation is that by which we come to know then creation is related to the root... does the root truly hold this meaning? i don't know... anyways at least you said somethin when you saw somethin goin on and contributed... thanks!
-
-
Found it
2623-24
Transliteration Qala firAAawnu wama rabbu alAAalameena
Literal Pharaoh said "And what (is) the creations all together's/(universes' Lord?"
Free-Minds Pharaoh said "And what is the Lord of the worlds?"Transliteration Qala rabbu alssamawati waal-ardi wama baynahuma in kuntum mooqineena
Literal He (Moses) said "Lord (of) the skies/space and the earth/Planet Earth, and what (is) between them (B), if youwere sure/certain."
Free-Minds He said "The Lord of the heavens and the Earth and all that is between them, if you are aware." -
so is that answering what is 'alamiyn or saying that rabb al 'alamiyn is the same thing as the rabb of all the other stuff?
i don't know, nothin to make too big of an issue of considering all the other translations that need to be fixed hahaha
thanks for the posts wakas
-
As-Salaamu Alaikum all,
Nice thread. I like both translations. Lord of all the worlds/creations/knowledge/systems of knowledge, etc. Please excuse me for adding some of my own words that are not direct translations, but I am trying to emphasize the expansiveness of the word all together. I think sometimes we feel that a word or ayat from Al Quran has to mean only one thing, but when we all think about it; most of us will agree that many if not most of the ayaat have more than one meaning. Usually a physical connection and a spiritual connection. Allah knows best. Hope that this adds something beneficial, insha Allah.
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
-
When Allah claims Himself as Robb, people are still seeking their own robb, then such people fighting against Allah as Robb eventhough they read Al Fathehah 17 times a day.
-
peace
can i just ask one more thing about al fatiha?
if praying alone and while saying the fatiha, is it alright to change certain words like instead of "You alone we serve" to say "You alone i serve"
and instead of "guide us to the straight path" to say "guide me to the straight path"? -
peace
can i just ask one more thing about al fatiha?
if praying alone and while saying the fatiha, is it alright to change certain words like instead of "You alone we serve" to say "You alone i serve"
and instead of "guide us to the straight path" to say "guide me to the straight path"?I take "praying" as "salaat"
And why don't you want to include the others with you?
I do not think it is alright, even if you were praying in a foreign language. It is like suggesting that your wordings are more appropriate than God's.
But if you mean praye as in "du3aa"
You can borrow parts of al-fatiha or from any other chapter that you find adequate to what you are asking -
peace
can i just ask one more thing about al fatiha?
if praying alone and while saying the fatiha, is it alright to change certain words like instead of "You alone we serve" to say "You alone i serve"
and instead of "guide us to the straight path" to say "guide me to the straight path"?If you pray other than original text, those are not God's kalimaat (words), so it doesn't matter if you replace an english word with other, they are all invalid.
-
If you pray other than original text, those are not God's kalimaat (words), so it doesn't matter if you replace an english word with other, they are all invalid.
He is not replacing words, he is changing the meaning.
I also remember nerspi saying somewhere he does not know arabic and he is working on that. Until then, he says, he will perform salaat in a foreign language. So, you still think he better not perform salaat because it is invalid? How do you know it is invalid?
-
He is not replacing words, he is changing the meaning.
I also remember nerspi saying somewhere he does not know arabic and he is working on that. Until then, he says, he will perform salaat in a foreign language. So, you still think he better not perform salaat because it is invalid? How do you know it is invalid?
Of course those words are not God's Kalimaat, are they? Thats why I think they are not valid. Worshiping God is not a big issue for me but if someone insists to worship God its better to do this with God's own kalimaat.
-
peace
but if i don't know them in arabic or if i can't pronounce them correctly, i think it's okay to say it in my language.
besides, let God decide what is invalid.And why don't you want to include the others with you?
because i'm praying alone, there are no others.
He is not replacing words, he is changing the meaning.
i don't think it's replacing that much. i'm still praying to God.
-
peace
but if i don't know them in arabic or if i can't pronounce them correctly, i think it's okay to say it in my language.
besides, let God decide what is invalid.because i'm praying alone, there are no others.
i don't think it's replacing that much. i'm still praying to God.
It is a connection between you and God. Do it the way you feel comfortable with, and work on progressing it. May God accept from you.
-
He is not replacing words, he is changing the meaning.
I also remember nerspi saying somewhere he does not know arabic and he is working on that. Until then, he says, he will perform salaat in a foreign language. So, you still think he better not perform salaat because it is invalid? How do you know it is invalid?
Personally I'm not in a position to say who's salat is invalid, it's not my decision to make.
I agree with you about changing the meanings to the Al-Fatiha, the semantics of the text is important. What I want to know is would you rather someone say their salat and Al-Fatiha in Arabic without knowing what it all meant??? Take my example, I learnt my aliff, ba, ta's before I learnt my a,b,c's. I learned to recite the Al-Fatiha not that much after I learned how to speak properly. I have been praying for the better part of my life in Arabic without a clue in the world what it is that I'm saying. I have a distinct feeling most non-Arabic native speakers are actually doing the same. It does become a sort of chant, now I feel my prayers have so much more impact since I know the meaning behind the words.
But what really comes first in solat? Learning and reciting the Arabic (as in my case) or learning the meaning first and reciting it in another language, i.e. incurring all the nuances and lack of semantical precision as a result of translation?? Both ways I think are quite faulty.
Rumi
-
peace
thank you samia for those words, i hope it is accepted.
and i wasn't really trying to change the meaning, just wanted to see if i can adjust it because i'm asking for guidence and i serve God (if i'm alone) but if i'm in a mosque or something i would say it the way it is.
but alright, i won't change anything.
